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PS5 Pro/PSSR Appears to Provide Better Image Reconstruction than DLSS Running on a 4090 GPU
CitizenKratos
Member
I couldn't find any mention of PSSR lagging behind DLSS in that DF clip. Sharpness and disillusion artifacts seem to be very good in both camps.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Just watch the clip...
"PSSR tends to present with a bit of extra image breakup on geometric edges and foliage in comparison to DLSS"
He also mentioned that PSSR presents a slightly artificially sharpened looking image.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Tbh, I'm not sure if I like that.
Looks a bit over-sharpened imo.
Hopefully optional motion-blur could solve that.
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PaintTinJr
Member
Sharpening because of superior draw distance and better precision without minification artefacts is the opposite of cheap. To increase draw distance you might have to split the frustum to a cascade of frusta and do it as two or more drawing passes each with their own overdraw, but yeah let's talk down superior image quality as BS-oversharpening
mansoor1980
Member
im
not familiar with how ps does it just saying from my own experience as a child. i would always turn up the sharpness on the tv. then i saw the other posts in this thread about how it just looked sharpened.
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PaintTinJr
Member
They have video footage to take stills and isolate the 'bs-over sharpening' and do wavelet, hi frequency pass analysis, or look at the histogram graph to inspect how natural the graph is and the data concentrations or use any means to scientifically determine if it is more likely over sharpening, which it isn't, and all we get from the Nvidia sponsored crew is casting shade at superior image quality.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I thought everyone kept saying they were paid for by Xbox? So they’re sponsored by Nvidia now? Which is it with you people?
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Bojji
Member
I thought everyone kept saying they were paid for by Xbox? So they’re sponsored by Nvidia now? Which is it with you people?
They are sponsored by everyone except Sony.
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it's not a bad thing, it be done it myself for videos posted to youtube, it does actually work, but you have to tweak it just right and other settings come into play like color vibrancy. too nuch sharpness and it becomes distorted for example. i think this is what the nvidia filters do more or less, but they seem to improve texture quality drastically, through a combination of gamma/contrast/vibrance/sharpness, at least just by eyeballing it, what's under the hood is another story.
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Senua
Gold Member
I don't know what it is lately. I get accused of being an Xbox fanboy. The last Xbox I bought was a 360 in 2006 lol
I thought everyone kept saying they were paid for by Xbox? So they’re sponsored by Nvidia now? Which is it with you people?
here's a side by side comparison of with / without nvidia filters, it legit looks like improved iq unless you're familiar with the tech behind it i guess.
i looked at this guys actual settings he posted and ironically he didn't use sharpening at all, probably could have made even more of an improvement
i looked at this guys actual settings he posted and ironically he didn't use sharpening at all, probably could have made even more of an improvement
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Zathalus
Member
It might be over sharpened in some cases. The thing with upscaling is that sharpening can be a trade-off depending on use case or game. Or even something as simple as user preference. The tech director as Insomniac agreed with DF that Ratchet had too much sharpening with PSSR for example, and thus disabled a sharpening pass. Honestly the best thing to do is to have a default value with an optional slider for each users preference, like DLSS does (in most games).
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Or it could safe you 800EUR
Let's see how new games will utilise the Pro. From my experience, FPS and fidelity improvements haven't got me playing an already beaten game again. I've doubled dipped on so many PC ports after playing the console version and I never finished them again.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I thought everyone kept saying they were paid for by Xbox? So they’re sponsored by Nvidia now? Which is it with you people?
PaintTinJr
Member
I disagree, the change in those images looks too garish and crushes as much as it adds, like an over sharpening might.
In the Pro screenshots and videos looking down the z axis of the camera into the sharp areas of imagery you can see the complexity in the shading dynamically across pixels because they are operating at a fragment(sub pixel) level which an over sharpening would would have crushed/converged and made it look worse, which isn't how the pristine Pro images and videos look.
Zathalus
Member
CitizenKratos
Member
They certainly didn’t describe it as lagging behind. And of course this claim wasn’t shown in action as it’s very subtle if it even ends up being an overall advantage.
Edit. They even show DLSS disocclusion artifacts in the ratchet and clank footage that appears worse than PSSR.
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well of course, as you articulated better than i could, the pro is doing more than just simple nvidia filters, my point was just that it can be easy to think there's an improvement in iq without realizing it's just a trick of color correction. i mean there's people who work in film and their entire job is color correction, which improves how the footage looks but it's essentially just tweaking filters. the same could be said for hdmi vs vga, nothing different happening at the source, it's just the clean signal of digital vs analog. not saying the pro is just doing color correction. but i did try and see the difference between the dlss and the pros upscaling implementation and the difference seemed less than what tricks with filter can do. either way personally i'm not one to notice, never had to use dlss i just run native higher resolution if i need to.
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Digital Foundry says PSSR is better than FSR 3.0 but still lags behind DLSS:
EDIT - Actually, I think this is new thread worthy. Going to make a new thread.
EDIT2 - Nevermind, mods won't let me I guess
Wow, that's really fucking impressive for an upscaler.
twilo99
Gold Member
Engaging in a reasonable discussion about Sony PlayStation in these parts is like finding a quiet spot at a rock concert.
also, correct me if im wrong, but isn't the dlss implementation the same regardless of what card you're using, assuming your card supports the same version of dlss? on other words you'll see no difference in still images between a 4090 and say a 3090 when it's upscalin to the same resolution? so why use the title "better than dlss on a 4090"? seems irrelevant to say which card it's running on?
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Bojji
Member
It's the same on 2060 and on 4090 when it comes to image quality, only difference is performance.
PaintTinJr
Member
What about frame-to-frame errors and ghosting? Are they really the same for a 2060 doing 30fps versus a 4090 doing 120fps?
Bojji
Member
He was talking about still images.
EVERYTHING looks worse at lower framerate, and this is what 30fps defenders don't understand.