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[winjer]

Ok, and portion of 7800XT/RDNA 3 clocks are used to cover chiplet inefficiency. We can go all day with the console pc one ups.

Btw, in the most recent DF Direct, Richard previews BMW gpu benchmark between PS5 and 6700; PS5 runs "5%-10% faster" than 6700 despite the infinity cache, higher clocks, and overall 10% theoretical compute advantage. And we all know Wukong is a PC centric game not optimized for PS5.

7800xt raster (and who really cares when Pro has PSSR?)/4070S really shouldn't be a shock to anyone based on what we know so far. In fact, it's entirely possible I'm lowballing Pro performance.

There is no chiplet inefficiency. The 6700 is a monoclinic chip. The L3 cache is not a separate chip.

There are several reason for why Wukong runs worse on the 6700 than on the PS5.
For one, Wukong on PC, is an nvidia sponsored title. So it's heavily optimized for Nvidia architectures, not for AMD, nor Intel.
The second, is because AMD has still to release optimized drivers for the game.
And another reason, is that the PS5 APIs are lower level than DX12 and better optimized.
And this gets even worse, with DXR, which performs much worse than the RT API on the PS5.

And even with the L3 cache being on a chiplet, it will always much faster than going to memory. Much lower latency and greater bandwidth.

 

[saintjules]

What no one is talking about ( maybe some but I'm not reading every single post ) is that's is almost end of life for the ps5. PS4 lasted 7 years... ps5 at 5 so you will get a pro console for 2 years? Or will the ps5 go on for longer ? It's a very interesting situation.

The PS5 is not even 4 years old yet. What?

 

[MisterXDTV]

The PS5 is not even 4 years old yet. What?

Some people come from the future...

 

[tusharngf]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

 

[TheRedRiders]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

These were leaked months ago darling.

 

[Ronin_7]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

This has been known

 

[Radical_3d]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If on the other hand, we want to say this gen is not that different and just drawn out... meaning, cross gen phase lasted longer than ever, price drop will come but just happen two years later than usual, games take longer to make....etc, then we should also accept that everything thus far about this gen has been protracted... and as such the PS6 will also come later than usual.

Not necessarily

You can release a ps6 even if ps5 never gets a price cut, and the ps5 generation can still continue far longer. Cross play will only get worse

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

Don't get caught up in those TF numbers, not a great measurement

 

[orosballs]

Wasn’t there an NDA expiring this weekend?

I remember the NDA ending on August 31, so yea I'm all

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I remember the NDA ending on August 31, so yea I'm all

Maybe that NDA is for those journos that have been visiting Japan recently rather than Sony directly?

 

[mansoor1980]

PSSR will be the game changer , cant wait for this

 

[VolticArchangel]

Don't get caught up in those TF numbers, not a great measurement

Yeah, ~16 Tflops, with the 45% number thrown around.

Do you still stand by your claim, if my memory serves me right, in real world performace, it will be between 4070 and 4070 Super?

 

[ChiefDada]

There is no chiplet inefficiency. The 6700 is a monoclinic chip. The L3 cache is not a separate chip.

I was referring to 7800XT there.

And even with the L3 cache being on a chiplet, it will always much faster than going to memory. Much lower latency and greater bandwidth.

Sure but they also cut IC in half compared to CU equivalent 6800 from RDNA2.

 

[DJ12]

Don't get caught up in those TF numbers, not a great measurement

Pretty sure your two days is up buddy ;p

 

[kingpotato]

HeisenbergFX4 since we are past whatever NDA date you referenced, what can you tell us? Is there a pro that comes with a disc drive?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

HeisenbergFX4 since we are past whatever NDA date you referenced, what can you tell us? Is there a pro that comes with a disc drive?

 

[emivita]

$499 for Pro digital SKU, $599 for an eventual disc SKU. Anything above that is DOA, below that is mic dropping.

Show multiple improved games, both recent and new, + GTA VI announcement with exclusive 60 FPS mode, and it'll sell out in minutes.

 

[bitbydeath]

Maybe that NDA is for those journos that have been visiting Japan recently rather than Sony directly?

Maybe we’ll get a Wired article again.

 

[Gerdav]

I can see them just dropping an article on the PS Blog and then the tech sites announcing the hardware, followed up by a state of play a few days later showcasing the games.

 

[Caio]

I can see them just dropping an article on the PS Blog and then the tech sites announcing the hardware, followed up by a state of play a few days later showcasing the games.

I hope Mark Cerny will officially present it, with a complete Tech deep dive.

 

[Seomel]

Late to the thread..rumoured specs

Im genuienly cutious about their upsampling tech. PS5 tried with several games with fsr, but older fsr is just geniuenly bad looking. Hoping this is something more akin to flss with actual performance boost

 

[Madjako]

These were leaked months ago darling.

Great summary though !

 

[No_Cartridge]

Great summary though !

It's from RedGamingTech's video.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Oh Yes 36.1 TF (18TF) comes from the 2.35ghz max clock. It would make sense for them to reach such psychological round number: 18 TF.

Anyways all this has already been leaked. He is just stealing that for himself. Shameful.

Don't get caught up in those TF numbers, not a great measurement

Of course but we know from Kepler that dual issue will be much more important and potent on a closed console. Besides even Nvidia use the dual issue trick. And if they really reach 18 TF the way PS5 does, then it's still quite a good number IMO.

 

[Bernoulli]

HeisenbergFX4 since we are past whatever NDA date you referenced, what can you tell us? Is there a pro that comes with a disc drive?

If the NDA is over then we should see articles everywhere

 

[TheRedRiders]

Of course but we know from Kepler that dual issue will be much more important and potent on a closed console. Besides even Nvidia use the dual issue trick

What did Keplar say exactly?

I wouldn't look too much into the dual issue compute feature for several reasons.

Firstly because there's a limitation on the amount of code that can be executed using this feature, not all workloads will benefit.

Developers will have two options when using this feature, either rely on the consoles own auto-compiler or write their own written assembly code to take advantage of it. I think it's likely they'll avoid the latter because we've already seen how lazy developers have been thus far. Maybe the odd one or two Playstation first party titles may take advantage of it.

Then there's the issue of hitting memory bandwidth limitations as the upgrade form the regular PS5 to Pro is modest at best, it's likely the GPU will start choking out before we get any meaningful performance gains from dual issue compute.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'm just being cautiously optimistic.

 

[bitbydeath]

Oh Yes 36.1 TF (18TF) comes from the 2.35ghz max clock. It would make sense for them to reach such psychological round number: 18 TF.

Anyways all this has already been leaked. He is just stealing that for himself. Shameful.

Of course but we know from Kepler that dual issue will be much more important and potent on a closed console. Besides even Nvidia use the dual issue trick. And if they really reach 18 TF the way PS5 does, then it's still quite a good number IMO.

Said it before and people were in disbelief. I expect the full 36TF to be used to display games in 8K.

 

[PeteBull]

Final stretch now

 

[Caio]

Said it before and people were in disbelief. I expect the full 36TF to be used to display games in 8K.

I will be very happy with fidelity mode running at 60fps on the PRO, compared to 30fps on base PS5/XSX, and slighty better lighting/effects.

 

[Radical_3d]

Said it before and people were in disbelief. I expect the full 36TF to be used to display games in 8K.

Sometimes I think “am I too much of a Sony fanboy?” Then I read things like this and feel like there is so much margin for delusion…

 

[bitbydeath]

Sometimes I think “am I too much of a Sony fanboy?” Then I read things like this and feel like there is so much margin for delusion…

8K is already confirmed.

 

[Radical_3d]

8K is already confirmed.

Minecraft 8K. So exciting.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Are we still talking about Teraflops?

LOL

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Are we still talking about Teraflops?

LOL

I heard they make your penis grow bigger.

 

[bitbydeath]

Minecraft 8K. So exciting.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

GTA6

Yeah, let's just wait to see if it's a Rockstar game or a Rainbowstar game.

 

[Physiognomonics]

What did Keplar say exactly?

I wouldn't look too much into the dual issue compute feature for several reasons.

Firstly because there's a limitation on the amount of code that can be executed using this feature, not all workloads will benefit.

Developers will have two options when using this feature, either rely on the consoles own auto-compiler or write their own written assembly code to take advantage of it. I think it's likely they'll avoid the latter because we've already seen how lazy developers have been thus far. Maybe the odd one or two Playstation first party titles may take advantage of it.

Then there's the issue of hitting memory bandwidth limitations as the upgrade form the regular PS5 to Pro is modest at best, it's likely the GPU will start choking out before we get any meaningful performance gains from dual issue compute.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'm just being cautiously optimistic.

Kepler has said that Dual issue was improved in RDNA3.5 and compilers would make it work much better (without developers polish) on a console.

 

[Zathalus]

8K is already confirmed.

Completely pointless, even with a 85 inch TV you’d need to sit around 1.5 meters away from your TV to start notice pixel density differences. As for performance? The 4090 is a 92 TF card with over 1TB/s memory bandwidth and it struggles at 8k with demanding titles using DLSS. The Pro would be less then half as powerful.

Even Sony doesn’t seem to care that much anymore, with the newest Sony 8k TV being more then 2 years old.

 

[King Dazzar]

Completely pointless, even with a 85 inch TV you’d need to sit around 1.5 meters away from your TV to start notice pixel density differences. As for performance? The 4090 is a 92 TF card with over 1TB/s memory bandwidth and it struggles at 8k with demanding titles using DLSS. The Pro would be less then half as powerful.

Even Sony doesn’t seem to care that much anymore, with the newest Sony 8k TV being more then 2 years old.

I'm 2.5m+ away and can tell the difference. And thats with just a 4k upscale. But I agree that 8k wont be anything of note on the Pro.

 

[Bojji]

This is why I think PS5 Pro RT games will perform like a +4070, because Sony's API is just so good at leveraging RT on PS5. We have seen this in almost all recent hardware RT games, here vs PC, but also vs XSX. Software RT like in Lumen will be a thing in the past on PS5 Pro and then PS6. The dedicated hardware will be just too good compared to compute RT trickery.

99% of UE5 games don't even have hardware RT options on PC so don't count on developers to switch to that. Hardware lumen is also more expensive even with Ada level of RT hardware.

Yeah, ~16 Tflops, with the 45% number thrown around.

Do you still stand by your claim, if my memory serves me right, in real world performace, it will be between 4070 and 4070 Super?

It was "up to" 4070 few months ago now it's between 4070 and 4070S? Looks like it will be on par with 4080 around launch.

Between 3070ti and 3080/4070 is where it will land when it comes to raster power, on level of 6800/7700xt. RT is a big unknown.

 

[winjer]

I was referring to 7800XT there.

Sure but they also cut IC in half compared to CU equivalent 6800 from RDNA2.

The 7800XT performs as well as the 6800XT with the 128Mb L3 cache.
So it doesn't seem to be starved for memory bandwidth. probably, because RDNA3 has improvements for DCC.

 

[bitbydeath]

Completely pointless, even with a 85 inch TV you’d need to sit around 1.5 meters away from your TV to start notice pixel density differences. As for performance? The 4090 is a 92 TF card with over 1TB/s memory bandwidth and it struggles at 8k with demanding titles using DLSS. The Pro would be less then half as powerful.

Even Sony doesn’t seem to care that much anymore, with the newest Sony 8k TV being more then 2 years old.

This isn’t true.
You could sit 1cm away from the smallest 8K TV you could find and you would still see the difference.

 

[jroc74]

What no one is talking about ( maybe some but I'm not reading every single post ) is that's is almost end of life for the ps5. PS4 lasted 7 years... ps5 at 5 so you will get a pro console for 2 years? Or will the ps5 go on for longer ? It's a very interesting situation.

What is this nonsense..

Wait, you're saying 7 years. Ok, no big deal. I was reading this as 5 years, lol.

No Sony console had support dropped at exactly 7 years tho. So...does it really matter?

 

[Physiognomonics]

99% of UE5 games don't even have hardware RT options on PC so don't count on developers to switch to that. Hardware lumen is also more expensive even with Ada level of RT hardware.



It was "up to" 4070 few months ago now it's between 4070 and 4070S? Looks like it will be on par with 4080 around launch.

Between 3070ti and 3080/4070 is where it will land when it comes to raster power, on level of 6800/7700xt. RT is a big unknown.

I agree with that. All those games won't be much improved on PS5 Pro sadly (including Wukong) without big developer patches (which won't happen in most cases). In those games I expect a mere 50% performance or resolution improvement (or a combination of both), not more.

But PSSR could be highly beneficial in those games particularly the way Sony allows it. Cerny certainly thought about how easy it should be to implement PSSR in those awful FSR2 games.

 

[ChiefDada]

This isn’t true.
You could sit 1cm away from the smallest 8K TV you could find and you would still see the difference.

I hate when people spout this nonsense. I can see the obvious difference between 4k and 8k on my damn cell phone.

 

[Bojji]

I agree with that. All those games won't be much improved on PS5 Pro sadly (including Wukong) without big developer patches (which won't happen in most cases). In those games I expect a mere 50% performance or resolution improvement (or a combination of both), not more.

But PSSR could be highly beneficial in those games particularly the way Sony allows it. Cerny certainly thought about how easy it should be to implement PSSR in those awful FSR2 games.

PSSR is the best thing about this console, developers often use piss poor techniques and low resolutions. PSSR with just this basic 45% performance uplift should fix most games IQ.

Assuming that developers actually use it, they are stubborn motherfuckers sometimes. FSR2 will be their favorite for quite some time I think (sadly).

I hate when people spout this nonsense. I can see the obvious difference between 4k and 8k on my damn cell phone.

I actually have 2017 phone with 4K screen as my backup, Xperia XZ Premium

Seeing difference between 4K and 1080p on screen this small is not easy. 4K is a waste on phones and you are telling me about 8k?

 

[Gaiff]

I hate when people spout this nonsense. I can see the obvious difference between 4k and 8k on my damn cell phone.

You have an 8K phone display?

 

[TheRedRiders]

Developers need to be working on stabilising framerates at 4K resolutions whilst increasing IQ, upgrading rendering technology like geometry and lighting before we begin wasting precious frame time on 8K resolutions.

 

[FireFly]

The 7800XT performs as well as the 6800XT with the 128Mb L3 cache.
So it doesn't seem to be starved for memory bandwidth. probably, because RDNA3 has improvements for DCC.

The Infinity Cache on RDNA 3 is much faster.

"Infinity Cache bandwidth also sees a large increase. Using a pure read access pattern, we weren’t able to get the full 2.7x bandwidth increase that should be theoretically possible. Still, a 1.8x bandwidth boost is nothing to joke about. The bandwidth advantage is impressive considering the Infinity Cache is physically implemented on different chiplets, while RDNA 2 kept the Infinity Cache on-die."

Microbenchmarking AMD’s RDNA 3 Graphics Architecture

Editor’s Note (6/14/2023): We have a new article that reevaluates the cache latency of Navi 31, so please refer to that article for some new latency data.

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