meech
Member
Then they have to reduce the price for the ps 5 to at least 300 dollar.
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Radical_3d
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I think this dual issue thing is being misunderstood. And in truth we have AMD and Nvidia to blame for that for deliberately obfuscating the information.
The easiest way to look at dual issue when used with a proper compiler (the compiler is key), is that it makes the GPU so efficient, that it ts as if it's running twice as fast.
How it does this is important to understand. In your typical GPU, your IOPS and flops for says 32bit float are the same. Double the float for a 16 bit workload as you can fit two of those in a 32-bit waveform, and half the floats for a 64-bit task as you need two clock cycles to complete the task.
A dual issue compute task (and this is because we do not have double data address stores in the GPU, unless this has been changed), allows the PU be "faster" by simply doing multiple operations per clock. Note this is not the same thing as twice as many operations per clock. A good way to look at this is something like this...
Typical GPU
1st Cycle - Arithmetic compute (add/multiply/fused add+multiply)....etc
2nd cycle - memory access operations/Reconstruction pass
VOPD GPU
1st Cycle - Arithmetic compute + memory access operations/PSSR pass
2nd Cycle - Rinse and repeat....
Firstly, not all tasks benefit from dual issue due to conflicts... eg, you can't have the GPU doing two arithmetic loads when you have only one place to store the results per pass. ANd secondly, as you can see from above, the dual issue is extremely compiler dependent. Upi have to specifically write for the target shaders. As such, a developer building a game from the ground up to take advantage of say dual issue on the PS5pro... won't even be able to get that game running right on the base PS5. Much less on a PC.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
No but I can still watch 8k videos on YouTube?
winjer
Gold Member
The Infinity Cache on RDNA 3 is much faster.
"Infinity Cache bandwidth also sees a large increase. Using a pure read access pattern, we weren’t able to get the full 2.7x bandwidth increase that should be theoretically possible. Still, a 1.8x bandwidth boost is nothing to joke about. The bandwidth advantage is impressive considering the Infinity Cache is physically implemented on different chiplets, while RDNA 2 kept the Infinity Cache on-die."
Microbenchmarking AMD’s RDNA 3 Graphics Architecture
Editor’s Note (6/14/2023): We have a new article that reevaluates the cache latency of Navi 31, so please refer to that article for some new latency data.chipsandcheese.com
I doubt that the memory bandwidth of the L3 cache was ever an issue for game's performance.
bitbydeath
Member
Some phones capture in 8K and downscale to 4K, giving you a better than 4K image/experience.
Similar to what you would have seen with the original UE5 demo.
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Radical_3d
Member
kikonawa
Member
Me spening 540 euro 20 years ago for a launch ps2…
No I didn't.
The main issue with AMD's current implementation of VOPD is the lack of VGPR banks/ports which leads to many conflicts and no real use outside of hand tuned kernels.
Yeah I read that post wrong about when a PS6 could launch...but still.
The PS5 launched Nov 2020...it will b 4 years old in Nov of this year, not 5.
Nov 2020-Nov 2021 is 1 year on the market.
Nov 2021-Nov 2022 is 2 years on the market.
And so on.
Its sad I had to break down how to count how long its been.
That said I also dont think a PS6 in 2027 is rushing. I dont think Sony is waiting for the PS5 Pro to launch to start working on the PS6...my thing is the longer they wait, the more Sony can utilize tech advances for the PS6. Sony skipping the PS5 Pro doesnt mean they launch a PS6 in 2026.
And I wouldnt want that. Hell, according to rumors the PS5 Pro should have launched last year....what does it launching now means for their timeline for the PS6?
The PS5 launched Nov 2020...it will b 4 years old in Nov of this year, not 5.
Nov 2020-Nov 2021 is 1 year on the market.
Nov 2021-Nov 2022 is 2 years on the market.
And so on.
Its sad I had to break down how to count how long its been.
That said I also dont think a PS6 in 2027 is rushing. I dont think Sony is waiting for the PS5 Pro to launch to start working on the PS6...my thing is the longer they wait, the more Sony can utilize tech advances for the PS6. Sony skipping the PS5 Pro doesnt mean they launch a PS6 in 2026.
And I wouldnt want that. Hell, according to rumors the PS5 Pro should have launched last year....what does it launching now means for their timeline for the PS6?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
And they’re downsampled on your phone screen with the usual youtube compression. The bitrate is probably even lower than your usual 4K TV stuff. I tried it on my computer using super resolution but can’t rightfully say 8K downsampled to 4K makes a meaningful difference.
My phone doesn’t t even have the 8K option on 8K videos. Stops at 2160p.
TheRedRiders
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Or it’s just a guy using the same name who took offense because he thought you were using his name lol.KeplarL2 on Gaf? Dam
Felessan
Member
Phones have their strange resolutions so "8K" helps them to better align pixels, but the difference is minimal (picture looks slightly sharper)
8K content on 4K screen where pixels align perfectly (1 pixel at 4K is exactly 4 pixels at 8K) will not have this effect
And YouTube is about bitrate, 4K at the same bitrate as 8K will look better
8K content on 4K screen where pixels align perfectly (1 pixel at 4K is exactly 4 pixels at 8K) will not have this effect
And YouTube is about bitrate, 4K at the same bitrate as 8K will look better
Physiognomonics
Member
Sorry I must have misinterpreted some of your tweets.
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Zathalus
Member
Er yeah, the closer you sit the more the differences become apparent. Good luck picking up those differences sitting 4m away from your 65 television. And even if you do, it’s silly to suggest a marginal increase in pixel clarity is worth the enormous trade off in performance. That rendering budget is better utilized elsewhere like RT or other compute heavy techniques like virtualised geometry.
Even PC gamers with a 4090 that sit far closer to a monitor compared to your average console gamer and a TV don’t bother with it. Heck, a 5090 is unlikely to allow for a significant uptake in 8k gaming.
What imaginary 8k phone are you using? And no, obviously you can’t see the difference between 4K and 8k on your phone, unless you strap it to your eyeball. A 4K phone already has a PPI north of 700 on a 6 inch screen.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I guess it depends whether the PlayStation PR team is still the same as for the Wired article back in 2019. Could be all change again with recent changes/developments.
A Cerny deep dive would always be welcome though.
nial
Member
PS6 started active development in early 2022.
I don't think PS5 Pro being a year late is changing anything, and I'm being honest, PS4 Pro was a year too early. I mean, we were still at the first half of the generation, and wasn't it weird that PS4 Pro had a longer lifecycle before PS5 than base PS4 before PS4 Pro?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I only saw one box that was digital only but it looks like it will use the same detachable drive that’s currently sold.HeisenbergFX4 since we are past whatever NDA date you referenced, what can you tell us? Is there a pro that comes with a disc drive?
It was an NDA I signed a year ago that expired on Sept 1st from visiting Sonys packaging facility
King Dazzar
Member
I agree. I love my 8k panel. But I prefer using 4k 120hz 444 over 8k 60hz 420 for desktop use.
Its all moot anyway. There's no way a 45% uptick suddenly brings us 8k at 4 x the pixels of 4k. It aint going to happen. I would wager that the Pro, just like the base PS5 doesn't even allow me to select 8k as an output resolution.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I paid 1149 guilders back in November 2000. If you take inflation into account, that PS2 cost 900 euro in today's money.
BTW for reference:
PS3 - 600 euro in 2007 - 891 euro in 2024
PS4 - 400 euro in 2013 - 525 euro in 2024
PS5 - 500 euro in 2020 - 593 euro in 2024
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Why do people pick and choose which portion of the Sony leaks are accurate?? 8k performance mode and up to 4x RT are just as legitimate as the 45% average rendering uplift and yet I see most here latching onto the 45% and disregarding everything else.
Loxus
Member
Highly doubt we'll get a 8k performance mode (60fps) on PS5 Pro.
PLAYSTATION’S SPECTRAL SUPER RESOLUTION (PSSR)
Outlined in documents provided to Insider Gaming under the condition that they are not made public, PlayStation’s ambitions with PSSR is to achieve 4K 120FPS and 8K 60FPS. Whilst these are not the targets for the PS5 Pro due to hardware limitations, it is the internal goal for PSSR in future console iterations. The PlayStation 5 Pro PSSR currently supports 3840×2160 and is currently aiming for 4K 60 FPS and 8K 30FPS, but it’s unclear if those internal milestones can be passed.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
No I absolutely don't mean performance mode as in 60fps, more like graphics profile such as 8k30 like you have quoted.
Kupfer
Member
PS4 Pro - 399€ in 2016 - 493€ in 2024I paid 1149 guilders back in November 2000. If you take inflation into account, that PS2 cost 900 euro in today's money.
BTW for reference:
PS3 - 600 euro in 2007 - 891 euro in 2024
PS4 - 400 euro in 2013 - 525 euro in 2024
PS5 - 500 euro in 2020 - 593 euro in 2024
What a bargain that was!
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Physiognomonics
Member
Some simple games could run at that. The Touryst already runs at the on PS5 (and it's a nice looking 3D game), this game could be patched to actually output that on PS5 Pro. But it's going to be limited to a very short list of games. Worthless IMO and they should not have mentionned that.
I am more interested into what improvements there could be with VRR. Reducing the window framerate could be huge on PS5 Pro. Why can't we have VRR starting from 30fps ? It should be possible without LFC as that technique also creates problems (blurring). I remember the first time I read about VRR they were talking about VRR from very low level to 60hz. I think 9-60hz window if I am not mistaken. But we get only 48-60hz on PS5?
Bojji
Member
Don't expect 8k in any games other than some simple indie titles. I don't doubt console will be upscaling all games to it on HDMI output.
This is with DLSS on Nvidia (so comparable to PSSR), without it PS5 Pro performance should be below 6900XT (GPU stronger than the one in PS5 Pro in raster) and 3090. This is also basically a PS4 game.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Don't expect 8K movies either.
I've posted this before, but Hollywood isn't going higher than 4K due to film. They found that when scanning a film negative you can't extract any further detail higher than 5K. Due to that they're not bothering to restore anything higher than 4K. Without video content to drive sales, 8K TVs are a fucking waste and anyone buying one is a fool.
King Dazzar
Member
I dont think its anything to get your knickers in a twist over. I'll let you know if I can select 8k as an output when I get my hands on one. But the reason I'd take the 45% as a more valuable pointer, over the 8k. Is because I would have thought the 45% is more applicable to games across the board. Where as 8k capability was included on the base PS5 packaging and as we all know, was more just for marketing.
I am more than happy to be wrong, as I'm one of the very few people who own an 8k TV.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
People, I am not talking about native 8k I am talking about 8k output and upscaling via PSSR. We can see 8k30 for cpu limited and raster only games. It's not that hard to figure out logical use cases.
Ok I am 100% convinced that DLSS equivalent or better AI upscaling is in PS5 Pro after watching this DF video It's "interesting" to me that DF laughed off the 8k rumors but they had no problem spending time to make a video on 8k DLSS performance and visual benefits running on a 3090.
Key Highlights.
1. Most beneficial for raster games since upscaling (especially from lower res) introduces artifacts on RT effects like reflections.
2. 1440p internal resolution upscaled to 8k provides better IQ than Native 4k w/TAA in most instances. DS had texture bug issues in Alex's testing
3. 4k internal resolution upscaled to 8k IQ is perceptibly better than 1440p DLSS upscaled to native 8k (which itself is better than native 4k), but doesn't look quite as good as native 8k
Here's my guess on how things play out: I don't think we will even have an option to turn AI upscaling on/off. It will always be on by default. Games that currently run at native 4k/30 on base PS5 will now be upscaled automatically to 8k output. RT/Raster uplift of PS5 Pro will allow these games to hit minimum 60fps. Games that currently run at internal 1440p for performance can also be upscaled to 4k or 8k (unclear to me if 60fps+ introduces more latency pressure on AI upscaling especially since 1440p is much further from 8k) and run 60-120 fps.
My hype is through the damn roof now. I imagine we can easily get 100-120fps with better than native 4k IQ at minimum for most last-gen and cross-gen games such as GoW Ragnarok, Forbidden West, etc.
Xtib81
Member
I will. I'm tired of PS3-level resolutions and fluctuating framerate.
No, but in RDNA 3 the increased bandwidth could help offset the smaller capacity.
saintjules
Gold Member
Games are still struggling from performance issues. If the Pro can improve that and add more on top with those mentioned features, it's an easy buy for me.
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King Dazzar
Member
Many people like myself who bought 8k TV's, actually bought them for 4k. My 8k panel for example, offered the best luminance, together with the best processing you could get. A bit like wanting one improvement on a car, but having to buy the complete top trim level to get it. I didnt buy mine for 8k viewing.... That said the 4k upscale is great.
dano1
A Sheep
$599.
That’s how much PC players pay for a Graphics card. And that would be middle of the road..
Radical_3d
Member
winjer
Gold Member
Bandwidth never offsets capacity.
The first affects transfer rates. The second affects locality.
Bojji
Member
Funny thing is that I KNOW that there will be 720p, sub 60fps games on PS5 pro. Developers always deliver....
Audiophile
Member
Nice render (not actually leaked):
Though it doesn't seem to take into account the supposedly thicker center section.
Though it doesn't seem to take into account the supposedly thicker center section.
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MatrixReloaded101
Member
Yes, but Sony knows they can pump more money out of its customers.
The pro isn’t going to have a big leap people think because it would cost too much to do so. If you care about FPS buying a PC would make more sense and be cheaper in the long run because a good PC is more future proof, free online and games are cheaper on PC.
The issues isn’t the hardware, its devs rushing out unoptimized games and that won’t change with a pro model.
GTA 6 would be the only reason I might consider getting this because knowing rockstar the game won’t came to PC for another year or two. So Sony knows this game creates the perfect opportunity to make people want to buy a pro.
I love new tech but I hate the way companies try to sucker its customers.
VolticArchangel
Member
KeplarL2 on Gaf? Dam
Moore's Law Is Dead live reaction to Kepler registering on Gaf:
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Tbf they both positively contributed towards accurate leaks while getting some details wrong along the way.
TheRedRiders
Member
Lmao pretty sure Tom (MLiD) is sneaking around here somewhere
Tom?
Just kidding, I don't put a lot of credence into his leaks, but I always enjoy his podcasts and streams, he always brings on a lot of great guests from the gaming tech world and one of the only podcasts to do so.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The problem with MLID isn’t the stuff he gets right, it’s the stuff he gets wrong. He’ll say a million things and actually hit a few correctly, but then it’s up to us to parse the bullshit and filter what’s good and what isn’t.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Welcome if you’re the real Kepler it’s nice having you here
saintjules
Gold Member
Not all games are on the PC platform and I think most like myself don't want to wait 3+ years (if at all) for a game to come to PC when it's readily available on something else.
possumarmada
Banned
I need to get a second PS five from my house and I might as well buy one that’s a little more powerful all things being equal
kevboard
Member
8K film would be a complete waste of storage space and effort in general.
in games high resolutions make a bigger difference than in film. games need all the image information they can get to create a cohesive image. even at 4k you still need to treat edges with some sort of antialiasing to add image information and eliminate jaggies and high frequency detail flicker.
the higher your resolution the less artifacts you get. running a game at 8k will therefore have visibly less obvious flicker and jaggies that need to be treated, and therefore there's less artifacting and a more cohesive image.
meanwhile in film all that additional information is there even if the camera can't capture it all. it's comparable to the video game equivalent of rendering something at like 16k (or any ridiculously high resolution) and then downscale it to 1080p. you don't have any of the issues a game has, so at first glance there's no super obvious difference between a 1080p master and a 4k master. the bitrate and proper color balance or even a good HDR presentation make a way bigger difference in film compared to games.
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