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[HeisenbergFX4]

I dont know about the rest of you but doesnt the whole rumor "sOnY HaD ThE Ps5 PrO ChIp rEaDy tO TaPe lAsT YeAr bUt cHoSe nOt tO ReAlEaSe bEcAuSe rEaSoNs"
Smell like steaming pile of shit?

Nope it does not its why some had the 15-17TF range over a year ago as a direct comparison to the PS5

 

[yurinka]

I am lost. What has this got to do with the PS5pro?

They think that Sony did discount PS5 Slim, PSVR2 and PS Portal to sell/clear the inventory they had. So the SIE inventory should reduce, but they saw that instead the inventory increased.

But their approach is wrong: they are comparing Q1 vs Q4, when they should compare this Q1 vs the Q1 of the previous year. Because console companies mostly manufacture stuff across the year and get their stuff mostly sold in Q3 (Christmas season), manufacturing and sales aren't spread equally across the four quarters of the year.

Their inventory has been decreasing when analyzing it properly (comparing it vs previous year), and Sony made the discounts and reduced inventory because having a smaller inventory reduces the costs of having stuff sitting in warehouses.

But they mistakenly think the inventory increased, and they assume because Sony is secretly manufacturing PS5 Pros.

They also forget that Sony keeps manufacturing PS5 Slim, PSVR2, PS Portal and the rest of many accesories and games they produce and that goes to their inventory. I think if they plan to release it in Q4 and have moderate sales as PS4 Pro did (Pros are expensive products for a pretty small portion of the users, same as the most expensive GPUs in case of PC), they may start to produce it in Q3 or maximum Q2, not Q1.

AMD is only taking about their gaming revenue (Consoles and GPUs) and I don't think they would lie to investors.

AMD's gaming revenue nosedives 48%, not expected to recover until 2025 — lack of interest in RDNA 3 coupled with fewer console sales

"First quarter semi-custom SoC sales declined in line with our projections as we are now in the fifth year of the console cycle," said AMD CFO Jean Hu on a conference call with analysts and investors (via SeekingAlpha). "In gaming graphics, revenue declined year-over-year and sequentially. We expanded our Radeon 7000-series family with the global launch of our Radeon RX 7900 GRE and also introduced our driver-based AMD Fluid Motion Frames technology that can provide large performance increases in thousands of games."

"[The] gaming segment, based on current demand signals, revenue to decline by significant double-digit percentage," said Hu. "[…] Based on the visibility we have, the first half, both Q1 [and] Q2, we guided down sequentially more than 30%. We actually think the second half will be lower than first half. That is basically how we are looking at this year for the gaming business."


If PS5 Pro was launching this year, revenue for AMD would stop deciding as Sony would be buying up more chips (PS5 + PS5 Pro) since the first half of the year for a PS5 Pro November release.

Imo, best time to release the PS5 Pro is along side GTA 6. The marketing as well would be straight forward. "The best place to play".

Most people will wait until GTA 6 drops before buying a PS5 Pro anyway, as that's probably how Sony sees it.

PS5 Pro may not even have been scheduled to be released this year. We are just following and believing what Tom Henderson says.

I think PS5 Pro sales will be a relatively small portion of the PS5 sales, as happened with PS4 and PS4 Pro.

As AMD says, they are approaching the 5th year of the console generation, and each generation yearly console hardware sales normally peaks around its 2nd-4th year. Meaning, after that peak each year the console hardware sales decrease, so this double digit decrease is normal independently of if they release the Pro or not.

I think PS5 Pro and GTA6 will cause both a temporary bump in sales, both relatively very small when looking at the whole picture.

From different sources seems that they are really working on a PS5 Pro, but the only source we have for a release date window is from Tom Henderson which also came with PS5 Slim and PS Portal info that ended being true, so unless they later did some changes (something possible) the PS5 Pro part is also pretty likely true. Obviously can be wrong too.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Nope it does not its why some had the 15-17TF range over a year ago as a direct comparison to the PS5

Hm....So would it be reasonable to think that *if* the Pro SoC was already pretty much finished and ready for a Nov '23 launch Sony could've already manufactured lots of this Pro SoC in the last 12-18 months hence it explains the forecast of decreasing sales for Q3/Q4 this FY? Maybe it partly explains that big FY shipment adjustment last year if that initially included whatever Pro's they thought would ship?

I'm guessing tens of thousands of chips have already gone into the dev kits that I assume most devs have switched to?

In any case we're running out of time if they do want to launch it this year so we'll find out by the end of this month I should think.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Hm....So would it be reasonable to think that *if* the Pro SoC was already pretty much finished and ready for a Nov '23 launch Sony could've already manufactured lots of this Pro SoC in the last 12-18 months hence it explains the forecast of decreasing sales for Q3/Q4 this FY? Maybe it partly explains that big FY shipment adjustment last year if that initially included whatever Pro's they thought would ship?

I'm guessing tens of thousands of chips have already gone into the dev kits that I assume most devs have switched to?

In any case we're running out of time if they do want to launch it this year so we'll find out by the end of this month I should think.

This is pure speculations as I don't know why Sony held off launching last year, some had heard pricing possibly nearing $799 but again thats nothing concrete

And honestly don't know if they have been producing SoCs this whole time or that was put on hold as well as maybe Sony was trying to decide if they wanted to scrap the whole project when the leaks started happening there was no Pro Series Xbox to compete with it?

All of that above is guessing on mine and other's parts

This part is not guessing

I know this SoC was done around March-April ish of last year, that part is 100% accurate

I was told by a pretty reliable person some of the priority studios got the first round of Devkits late summer of last year

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is pure speculations as I don't know why Sony held off launching last year, some had heard pricing possibly nearing $799 but again thats nothing concrete

And honestly don't know if they have been producing SoCs this whole time or that was put on hold as well as maybe Sony was trying to decide if they wanted to scrap the whole project when the leaks started happening there was no Pro Series Xbox to compete with it?

All of that above is guessing on mine and other's parts

This part is not guessing

I know this SoC was done around March-April ish of last year, that part is 100% accurate

I was told by a pretty reliable person some of the priority studios got the first round of Devkits late summer of last year

How much could have that SoC changed since then if at all? Maybe only frequency? Maybe a node shrink?

If they did essentially get RDNA4 RT, amongst other things, down so much in advance the speculation that they collaborated with AMD on it might… make sense based on how Cerny discussed their collaboration with AMD?

This would mean that studios had specs for a year already and for something that hopefully should not need a lot of developer’s custom optimisation to yield results, but if this is their “bringing AI upscaling to the masses” and “RT for titles that did not even consider it for PS5” it might take time.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is pure speculations as I don't know why Sony held off launching last year, some had heard pricing possibly nearing $799 but again thats nothing concrete

And honestly don't know if they have been producing SoCs this whole time or that was put on hold as well as maybe Sony was trying to decide if they wanted to scrap the whole project when the leaks started happening there was no Pro Series Xbox to compete with it?

All of that above is guessing on mine and other's parts

This part is not guessing

I know this SoC was done around March-April ish of last year, that part is 100% accurate

I was told by a pretty reliable person some of the priority studios got the first round of Devkits late summer of last year

That's a really long time to sit on the APU. Costs and yields (or both) is the only thing that I can think of that make them do that. I can't even say they held it back to improve its feature set if dev kits were already sent out last year. That would mean whatever they had, was pretty much final, maybe with the exception to clocks.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That's a really long time to sit on the APU. Costs and yields (or both) is the only thing that I can think of that make them do that. I can't even say they held it back to improve its feature set if dev kits were already sent out last year. That would mean whatever they had, was pretty much final, maybe with the exception to clocks.

The only other thing I could think was more time to work on PSSR maybe?

No idea though honestly

 

[nick776]

The only other thing I could think was more time to work on PSSR maybe?

No idea though honestly

Heisenberg,

I just want to know one thing (not speculation)--is it STILL COMING THIS YEAR?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Heisenberg,

I just want to know one thing (not speculation)--is it STILL COMING THIS YEAR?

I can't give you an absolute but if I could put money on it I would bet a large amount it is coming this year

 

[SonGoku]

Nope it does not its why some had the 15-17TF range over a year ago as a direct comparison to the PS5

That does not prove the chip was ready to print tho, for all we know Sony had that performance target or the first iterations of the chip shbowed that level of performance

If the final chip design was ready to print yields and all it makes no sense to purposely wait a year for no gain (added features like AI blocks, RT, better yields, 4nm availability/price) while the chip gets more outdated and has less impact at the time of release. Although im open to read reasonable justifications for delaying a that makes financial sense at the least

Problem with your keyboard?

Its a rumour, I know Moore's law is the source, not sure of any others, but regardless of whether the rumour is true (and it obviously might not be), we still don't have any idea of where AMD is on delivery/billing etc. I don't read too much into the AMD projections is mainly my point.

It wasnt aimed at you specifically, just took it as an opportunity to discuss said rumor and what could possibly justify delaying the release of a chip thats ready to tape

 

[nick776]

I can't give you an absolute but if I could put money on it I would bet a large amount it is coming this year

That is good enough for me.

 

[Boss Mog]

Heisenberg,

I just want to know one thing (not speculation)--is it STILL COMING THIS YEAR?

Announcement at the PS Showcase in September, release in November.

 

[RJMacready73]

Do you think they've been holding off revealing what ND, SSM, Guerrilla etc have been working on in order to show it off with the PS5 Pro reveal? God knows I am busting to see what those big 3 have been cooking and showing it running on a Pro would more than likely make me bite tbh

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That does not prove the chip was ready to print tho, for all we know Sony had that performance target or the first iterations of the chip shbowed that level of performance

If the final chip design was ready to print yields and all it makes no sense to purposely wait a year for no gain (added features like AI blocks, RT, better yields, 4nm availability/price) while the chip gets more outdated and has less impact at the time of release. Although im open to read reasonable justifications for delaying a that makes financial sense at the least

Yeah I don't know why they held off but not only agree with the report the silicone had been ready for over but will confirm was told the same thing

 

[Physiognomonics]

Hm....So would it be reasonable to think that *if* the Pro SoC was already pretty much finished and ready for a Nov '23 launch Sony could've already manufactured lots of this Pro SoC in the last 12-18 months hence it explains the forecast of decreasing sales for Q3/Q4 this FY? Maybe it partly explains that big FY shipment adjustment last year if that initially included whatever Pro's they thought would ship?

I'm guessing tens of thousands of chips have already gone into the dev kits that I assume most devs have switched to?

In any case we're running out of time if they do want to launch it this year so we'll find out by the end of this month I should think.

They could have delayed it because they wanted some newest tech. Remember that first PS5 prototype APU didn't have RDNA2 RT. Here a similar thing could have happened with either RDNA4 RT or AI hardware.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

They could have delayed it because they wanted some newest tech. Remember that first PS5 prototype APU didn't have RDNA2 RT. Here a similar thing could have happened with either RDNA4 RT or AI hardware.

I really don't think so as it stands to reason the dev kit will have the exact SoC that will be in the retail boxes and the dev kit, as Heisenberg says, has been out for over a year now and surely thousands are in dev hands. "delay" could be for cost reasons, games not being ready or cost of the cooling solution (if 6nm I'm guessing it might need to be better than launch PS5). Take your pick.

 

[PeteBull]

I think this last month before reveal will wake up all our inner demons and crazy insane speculations, logics would dictate no last minute changes and i would hope/encourage ppl just to survive those last 4 weeks w/o some crazy claims, but on the other hand, we are all enthusiasts here, i know staying sane and calm is impossible so close to new hardware reveal after all

Basically this :

 

[rkofan87]

Will wait for ps6

see you in 5 to 7 years.

 

[rkofan87]

The speculation about no disc drive has me convinced its time to play the last game I have on disc that hasn't been beaten yet.

i bet we will get 2 skus like last time no disc for 500 and one with disc for 600.

 

[Moridianae]

This is pure speculations as I don't know why Sony held off launching last year, some had heard pricing possibly nearing $799 but again thats nothing concrete

And honestly don't know if they have been producing SoCs this whole time or that was put on hold as well as maybe Sony was trying to decide if they wanted to scrap the whole project when the leaks started happening there was no Pro Series Xbox to compete with it?

All of that above is guessing on mine and other's parts

This part is not guessing

I know this SoC was done around March-April ish of last year, that part is 100% accurate

I was told by a pretty reliable person some of the priority studios got the first round of Devkits late summer of last year

Costs could've been a factor--or maybe they indeed just sat on it once Microsoft started just going in a different direction due to hardware sales tanking, unsure if they needed it.

But looking as it could be the best place to play GTAVI(assuming Microsoft doesn't get something out next year), it's a good thing to have it.

For the specs we've seen, I would've found $799 a hard pill to swallow. $599 isn't too bad, especially if I decide to trade up.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I really don't think so as it stands to reason the dev kit will have the exact SoC that will be in the retail boxes and the dev kit, as Heisenberg says, has been out for over a year now and surely thousands are in dev hands. "delay" could be for cost reasons, games not being ready or cost of the cooling solution (if 6nm I'm guessing it might need to be better than launch PS5). Take your pick.

Dev kits are just like consoles too... newer versions can be made.

If (f for any reason the chip from last year changed, there would be a new batch of dev kits that go out.

Furthermore,I think third parties only started getting their dev kits this year, so if changes were made, then those third parties would be getting the latest version of the dev kit. And the first-party studios would be retooled.

Costs could've been a factor--or maybe they indeed just sat on it once Microsoft started just going in a different direction due to hardware sales tanking, unsure if they needed it.

I don't think any pro console has ever had anything to do with whatever MS was doing. Or not doing for that matter.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Dev kits are just like consoles too... newer versions can be made.

If (f for any reason the chip from last year changed, there would be a new batch of dev kits that go out.

Furthermore,I think third parties only started getting their dev kits this year, so if changes were made, then those third parties would be getting the latest version of the dev kit. And the first-party studios would be retooled.

Which is very true especially with how Xbox would do their kits (I can only assume Sony does the same)

Their first kits were sometimes straight PCs with the approx power their console's would target with later kits actually being the hardware we would see in production

 

[welshrat]

i bet we will get 2 skus like last time no disc for 500 and one with disc for 600.

Is there talk of no disc drive ? I can't believe they would go only digital on the pro. It would be suicide would it not ?

 

[rkofan87]

Is there talk of no disc drive ? I can't believe didn't would go only digital on the pro. It would be suicide would it not ?

this i think the no disc talk is bs or its 2 skus.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Dev kits are just like consoles too... newer versions can be made.

If (f for any reason the chip from last year changed, there would be a new batch of dev kits that go out.

Furthermore,I think third parties only started getting their dev kits this year, so if changes were made, then those third parties would be getting the latest version of the dev kit. And the first-party studios would be retooled.


I don't think any pro console has ever had anything to do with whatever MS was doing. Or not doing for that matter.

For multiple reasons I simply don't think Sony operate like this now. In case of the PS4 Pro even the first proto dev kit had final specs. *if* PS5 Pro was originally set for Nov '23 then the rest of the timeline from Heisenberg would pretty much match what happened with PS4 Pro almost exactly. Not saying nothing can change or be different but something substantial changing would surprise me. I would think if there was a change of specs and new dev kit Tom Henderson would have caught wind of that by now.

 

[welshrat]

this i think the no disc talk is bs or its 2 skus.

Yes it must be. I mean the people most likely to upgrade who have a decent software library due to good income and suddenly they throw that it into the ring. I just won't believe that nonsense. If they do then it's me out and I desperately want one.

 

[rkofan87]

Yes it must be. I mean the people most likely to upgrade who have a decent software library due to good income and suddenly they throw that it into the ring. I just won't believe that nonsense. If they do then it's me out and I desperately want one.

or some like me use the ps5 for dvd bd and 4k as well as games.

 

[welshrat]

or some like me use the ps5 for dvd bd and 4k as well as games.

Yes same here. My only bluray and dvd player because why would I want both.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Is there talk of no disc drive ? I can't believe they would go only digital on the pro. It would be suicide would it not ?

Would be VERY foolish

 

[welshrat]

Would be VERY foolish

I mean it's hardly a pro model if you can't do half the stuff the standard one does. I don't even mind buying it separately but I am not going to be going near it if there is not an option.

 

[Loxus]

see you in 5 to 7 years.

Isn't it said to release in 2028?
That's nearly less than 4 years away.

 

[rkofan87]

Isn't it said to release in 2028?
That's nearly less than 4 years away.

4 years is still a long time.

 

[PeteBull]

Isn't it said to release in 2028?
That's nearly less than 4 years away.

ps5 is showing its age now, both with exclusives and multiplats, for hardcore gamer it wont be easy to survive another 4 long years w/o any upgrade but if u dont mind it ofc its totally ur choice.

 

[ManaByte]

ps5 is showing its age now, both with exclusives and multiplats, for hardcore gamer it wont be easy to survive another 4 long years w/o any upgrade but if u dont mind it ofc its totally ur choice.

50% of the people who play CoD on PlayStation still play on PS4. People haven't even upgraded to the PS5 yet.

 

[rkofan87]

50% of the people who play CoD on PlayStation still play on PS4. People haven't even upgraded to the PS5 yet.

cod players are not hardcore base.

 

[shamoomoo]

That does not prove the chip was ready to print tho, for all we know Sony had that performance target or the first iterations of the chip shbowed that level of performance

If the final chip design was ready to print yields and all it makes no sense to purposely wait a year for no gain (added features like AI blocks, RT, better yields, 4nm availability/price) while the chip gets more outdated and has less impact at the time of release. Although im open to read reasonable justifications for delaying a that makes financial sense at the least

It wasnt aimed at you specifically, just took it as an opportunity to discuss said rumor and what could possibly justify delaying the release of a chip thats ready to tape

Maybe this is not the exact situation,but wasn't the PS3 delayed to get a GPU since it was supposed to have to cell processors?

Again,the Pro is just a stopgap,it doesn't need to be any advanced outside its intended purpose.

 

[bitbydeath]

In any case we're running out of time if they do want to launch it this year so we'll find out by the end of this month I should think.

It’s still only August, we won’t hear anything official until next month.

 

[Loxus]

ps5 is showing its age now, both with exclusives and multiplats, for hardcore gamer it wont be easy to survive another 4 long years w/o any upgrade but if u dont mind it ofc its totally ur choice.

Wouldn't the hardware gamer want Sony to skip a mid-gen upgrade in favor of Sony launching the PS6 earlier? A proper upgrade in 2026-2027.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

It’s still only August, we won’t hear anything official until next month.

I agree the reveal could well be September again which is why I think the press might get their invites indicating a reveal very imminently. PS4 Pro invites went out Aug 9th 2016 for the Sept 7th event and the press reported that immediately.

 

[bitbydeath]

I agree the reveal could well be September again which is why I think the press might get their invites indicating a reveal very imminently. PS4 Pro invites went out Aug 9th 2016 for the Sept 7th event and the press reported that immediately.

I don’t have faith in Sony sending out invites early anymore. Hopefully that changes with the new management in place.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don’t have faith in Sony sending out invites early anymore. Hopefully that changes with the new management in place.

Them attending TGS for the first since 2019 when their new strategy of engaging with fans came into play may indicate such changes. Hold the PS5 Pro event early/mid September and then available to play on the TGS show floor just like the old days. Wouldn't that be great?

 

[West Texas CEO]

>be me
>be in the market for a new PS5
>still waiting for the Pro, though
>It's August and still nothing announced
>feels bad man

 

[Skifi28]

>be me
>be in the market for a new PS5
>still waiting for the Pro, though
>It's August and still nothing announced
>feels bad man

That's what you get for writing in green. No sympathy.

 

[MikeM]

Wouldn't the hardware gamer want Sony to skip a mid-gen upgrade in favor of Sony launching the PS6 earlier? A proper upgrade in 2026-2027.

Yep I would. I’d love five year console cycles to keep the hardware up to dateish.

 

[Perrott]

cod players are not hardcore base.

I'm pretty sure that the COD player that sticks with the game throughout the entire year probably clocks in more hours and spends more money (base game, PS Plus, battle passes, MTX) on average on a single ecosystem than what you think of as a "hardcore userbase".

Same with EA Sports, NBA 2K and GTAO crackheads.

 

[rkofan87]

I'm pretty sure that the COD player that sticks with the game throughout the entire year probably clocks in more hours and spends more money (base game, PS Plus, battle passes, MTX) on average on a single ecosystem than what you think of as a "hardcore userbase".

Same with EA Sports, NBA 2K and GTAO crackheads.

in that case their are 2 kinds of hardcore fans us and the cod nba2k hardcore casuals.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I mean it's hardly a pro model if you can't do half the stuff the standard one does. I don't even mind buying it separately but I am not going to be going near it if there is not an option.

`I hate being the one that says it (no actually I love it), but, the standard PS5, is already built without a disc drive. There is currently ONE model of the PS5 in production, and that model comes without a disc drive. There are two SKUs in store however, one with the optional disc drive bundled in, and one without.

All Sony needs to do, is make sure the PS5pro is also compatible with the current disc drive add-on. Selling a Pro with a bundled disc drive add-on or without, would be the least of their problems.

If I were Sony, I would try something... sell the PS5 Pro for $499. Then sell it with a disc drive for $599. And sell the disc drive add-on for $70 as it is sold now. I wonder if anyone would buy the disc drive bundled SKU.

 

[rkofan87]

`I hate being the one that says it (no actually I love it), but, the standard PS5, is already built without a disc drive. There is currently ONE model of the PS5 in production, and that model comes without a disc drive. There are two SKUs in store however, one with the optional disc drive bundled in, and one without.

All Sony needs to do, is make sure the PS5pro is also compatible with the current disc drive add-on. Selling a Pro with a bundled disc drive add-on or without, would be the least of their problems.

If I were Sony, I would try something... sell the PS5 Pro for $499. Then sell it with a disc drive for $599. And sell the disc drive add-on for $70 as it is sold now. I wonder if anyone would buy the disc drive bundled SKU.

i would pay the extra 30 to get rid of bs online check in.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Wouldn't the hardware gamer want Sony to skip a mid-gen upgrade in favor of Sony launching the PS6 earlier? A proper upgrade in 2026-2027.

No...the hardcore wants the best possible performance as soon as possible

 

[ReBurn]

No...the hardcore wants the best possible performance as soon as possible

The thing is... if people wanted the best performance as soon as possible they probably wouldn't be buying consoles. They would constantly be upgrading their PC's.

If people want the best performance a console can offer then of course, buy a PS5 Pro when it launches. I'm planning to sell one of my PS5's and put the money toward a PS5 Pro when it launches. I'm not a hardcore gamer, though. I'm just a console gamer.