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[kevboard]

that ssd is also significantly slower than required for a PS5.

which has been shown to not matter in the slightest. when even a deliberately manipulated super slow SSD can run all games with only a slight difference in load times, then it's pretty clear the SSD speed isn't really the main contributing factor to load speeds. access time and decompression are far more of a factor. and on PC the latter is always dependent on each individual game

 

[tmlDan]

which has been shown to not matter in the slightest. when even a deliberately manipulated super slow SSD can run all games with only a slight difference in load times, then it's pretty clear the SSD speed isn't really the main contributing factor to load speeds. access time and decompression are far more of a factor. and on PC the latter is always dependent on each individual game

but we're doing comparisons, so it matters.

 

[adamsapple]

8K is selling worse than 4K but 4K was not doing very well prior to the PS4 Pro's arrival.

8K isn't just selling worse, its selling much worse. 4K TV's outpaced its predecessor, the HDTV, by its 3rd year. 8K TV's were selling lower than expected by theirs.

4KTV sales didn't increase just because PS4 Pro came out, they were on an increasing trend for year(s) before that.

8K is not.

 

[kevboard]

but we're doing comparisons, so it matters.

if the performance while gaming is the same, then it doesn't

 

[tmlDan]

if the performance while gaming is the same, then it doesn't

no, we're doing a price comparison, can you prove that it doesn't matter? even if speeds change things even slightly?

 

[poppabk]

It wasn't, as per adamsapple link it had only sold 10M.

10 million in the US. The PS4 pro only sold 14 million worldwide by 2020 but somehow drove 4K TV adoption?

 

[twilo99]

which has been shown to not matter in the slightest. when even a deliberately manipulated super slow SSD can run all games with only a slight difference in load times, then it's pretty clear the SSD speed isn't really the main contributing factor to load speeds. access time and decompression are far more of a factor. and on PC the latter is always dependent on each individual game

It doesn't make much of a difference but the DirectStorage API on Win11 does have some SSD requirements...

 

[kevboard]

no, we're doing a price comparison, can you prove that it doesn't matter? even if speeds change things even slightly?

it doesn't matter in the sense that loading time differences of 1 second isn't an issue. on PC, like I said before, the load times are way more dependent on the compression used, how well the game uses your CPU, if it uses direct storage etc.

on PS5 that's more uniform since it's a fixed hardware with fixed decompression hardware and specialized APIs. which is why you can literally tape off connectors of an SSD to force it down to PCIe Gen 3 speeds and still barely see a load time difference even in games like Ratchet & Clank

 

[ULTROS!]

I like how he assumes someone buying a PS5 HAS to have a disc-drive, but says go PC, which is basically all digital.

I'm not sure why PC gamers think we want to be PC gamers. It's not the money - I don't want to go back to PC gaming.

And this is the reason why I dislike the avid PC community.

I play on Steam just to play L4D (before) and mostly DOTA 2 nowadays with friends and that's about it.

Oh and I've been using Mac for almost 20 years lol.

 

[Filben]

Why do some people put together a PC component list with a 12GB GPU? Who would buy 12GB for a PC nowadays with that much power and for 4k gaming?

I swear it often feels like a battle for its own sake, to decrease price as much as possible to say "see, console crowd, price isn't that big of a difference!". Okay and you won what exactly?

I play 90% on PC, really appreciate my PS5, but I don't have the constant need trying to convert people to PC gaming.

As if we need, after nearly two decades of console and PC wars, still express arguments for either side. Everyone knows all the advantages and disadvantages.

 

[bighugeguns]

Any RTX 4000 series card that uses DLSS 3.0 and that crazy AI upscaling stuff would murder the PS5 Pro in that department. That stuff is like voodoo magic.

 

[peish]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Tmkpyg

I specc this $1160 +/- 5%

$699 is never a problem. It is cheaper than the new iphone16 base model

But sony made a mess of the presentation, it was boring to show upscaled old games.

 

[Bulletbrain]

Why do some people put together a PC component list with a 12GB GPU? Who would buy 12GB for a PC nowadays with that much power and for 4k gaming?

1440p is still quite popular with PC gamers, and 12gb is still very viable at that resolution. When combined with multiple ways of sharpening, anti aliasing, down sampling (when power is available) one can achieve a good balance between IQ and performance while keeping VRAM under control.

 

[Parazels]

I want to remind pc adepts, why iPhone destroyed the other phones: it had way, way better interface.

And this is why I do love Consoles. They are super, super optimized for comfortable gaming. It's something more than your raw specs.

 

[cormack12]

These comparisons only ever target what is in the box never the complete picture.

Dualsense/xbox controller
Mouse and keyboard
Windows license
Monitor or acknowledgement that using an existing TV will require tradeoffs and even perhaps lapdesks
Acknowledgement that the extra power is often bled into to mitigate any subsystem gaps

The main consequence is that the minimum spec for the PC version of the game gets a bit higher, perhaps more CPUs or more RAM, in order to replace the missing systems."

And essentially refreshing your graphics card on a PC is only ever about turning all the bells and whistles on anyway. The geometry, animations etc don't improve or change.

Sure it may be expensive in its niche market, but so are high end graphics cards.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

The 7800XT is the GPU we should talk about here but we all know the RT performance é of the Pro is much better than the actual card.

We need to wait and see how the 8800XT behaves.

I own 7900XTX and I'm still buying the Pro for the exclusives

 

[FireFly]

Why do some people put together a PC component list with a 12GB GPU? Who would buy 12GB for a PC nowadays with that much power and for 4k gaming?

I swear it often feels like a battle for its own sake, to decrease price as much as possible to say "see, console crowd, price isn't that big of a difference!". Okay and you won what exactly?

I play 90% on PC, really appreciate my PS5, but I don't have the constant need trying to convert people to PC gaming.

As if we need, after nearly two decades of console and PC wars, still express arguments for either side. Everyone knows all the advantages and disadvantages.

According to the Steam survey, just under 4% of PC users have 4K monitors (a few percentage points more for various widescreen resolutions). So it's apples and oranges.

And besides, if PSSR runs in "performance mode" for the 60 FPS modes, then that's a 1080p base resolution on PC, where 12 GB should be fine.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

3 generations of "4K" and we finally here?

 

[hinch7]

These comparisons only ever target what is in the box never the complete picture.

Dualsense/xbox controller
Mouse and keyboard
Windows license
Monitor or acknowledgement that using an existing TV will require tradeoffs and even perhaps lapdesks
Acknowledgement that the extra power is often bled into to mitigate any subsystem gaps



And essentially refreshing your graphics card on a PC is only ever about turning all the bells and whistles on anyway. The geometry, animations etc don't improve or change.

Sure it may be expensive in its niche market, but so are high end graphics cards.

Be that of its may there are so many options for PC. Mouse and keyboards can be found for a few dollars depending on how cheap you're willing to go with limitless options. There's budget options or you can go on the upper market and have really nice and premium custom keyboards and lightweight gaming mice. Or you can reuse any old USB keyboard and mouse.

The same goes for controllers. Theres so many options. Chinese manufacters killing it in the budget option to high end elite Controllers. Or you can just plug in an old controller you have lying around that supports USB. Or get a wireless dongle if they have one or is bluetooth compatible. And to make it more user friendly for the living room have it boot into big picture mode on Steam.

Licences for Windows can be found on key sites for around $15. Valve is most likely going to make SteamOS a viable alternative to Windows and be a console like experience, if MS doesn't get there first with new PC Xbox.

The same could be said about consoles and accessories too. And services. You need to add a sub if you want to play online and if your controller breaks for any reason you're going to have to stump out another $70 or however much to replace it. And USB devices that are supported by Sony and said console. No HDMI 2.1? No VRR. In a non open platform Sony dictates what you can use on their hardware.

There is a learning curve to playing on PC and not that suited to the living room (yet) so its not recommended for all, without some knowledge prior but there are some massive benefits to going open platform. And you may realise that you are spending more on a closed ecosystem in the long run.

 

[Erebus]

I like how he assumes someone buying a PS5 HAS to have a disc-drive, but says go PC, which is basically all digital.

I'm not sure why PC gamers think we want to be PC gamers. It's not the money - I don't want to go back to PC gaming.

The issue with not having a disc-drive on a console is that you're restricted to a single digital storefront for purchasing games, where prices might not be competitive. In contrast, on a PC, you have multiple digital stores to choose from, offering more options and potentially better deals.

 

[twilo99]

Everyone knows all the advantages and disadvantages.

That's a naive take and most importantly we have a brand new landscape with the pricing of the latest console… the lines are very close to a proper blur.

 

[reinking]

Let's make it easy since we are comparing something a console gamer might be interested in instead of expecting them to build a PC from scratch.

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[twilo99]

 

[Shane89]

i am the only smart one that take in considearation optimization on consoles?

This has been proved to be true on ALL console generations. PS3 had 256+256mb of ram. Find me a goddamn pc that can run Killzone 2 / 3, MGS4, GTA 5 and many other titles with that amount of ram! The same has been proved with PS4 and PS5 too. HFW require 3070 in order to run 4k (native) @30fps. PS5 does the same with its gpu (in rez mode), which is not comparable to a 3070.

 

[Bavarian_Sloth]

If PSSR is near the quality of Dlss 2 - Rtx 3080

 

[owandeseis]

i am the only smart one that take in considearation optimization on consoles?

This has been proved to be true on ALL console generations. PS3 had 256+256mb of ram. Find me a goddamn pc that can run Killzone 2 / 3, MGS4, GTA 5 and many other titles with that amount of ram! The same has been proved with PS4 and PS5 too. HFW require 3070 in order to run 4k (native) @30fps. PS5 does the same with its gpu (in rez mode), which is not comparable to a 3070.

Yes, this generation is equivalent to a 2070s or a 6700, and there's multiple videos with comparisons from DF showing the same performance on most games.

Alan Wake 2 which is, with Wukong and Cyberpunk, the best looking games this generation, runs around 50% better in a 3070 over a PS5 IIRC

 

[Sethbacca]

Much better CPU cuz u gotta have some self respect after all

You forgot a nice monitor, keyboard and mouse if you're coming from no previous PC setup so you're looking at at least another 200-300 on top of that.

 

[Gaiff]

These comparisons only ever target what is in the box never the complete picture.

Dualsense/xbox controller
Mouse and keyboard
Windows license
Monitor or acknowledgement that using an existing TV will require tradeoffs and even perhaps lapdesks
Acknowledgement that the extra power is often bled into to mitigate any subsystem gaps

A windows license. What fucking year is this? 1998?

Mouse and keyboard and controller, so you also need to factor in mouse and keyboard for a console?

Monitor? So we're assuming everyone just has a TV good enough for a good console gaming experience? Do we do the same for monitors? Oh, wait, we don't.

What a nonsensical post.

 

[twilo99]

You forgot a nice monitor, keyboard and mouse if you're coming from no previous PC setup so you're looking at at least another 200-300 on top of that. Plus a controller if you want one for console type games.

Should we add a nice 8K LG oled TV to accommodate your new 8K capable PS5 pro ?

 

[Sethbacca]

Should we add a nice 8K LG oled TV to accommodate your new 8K capable PS5 pro ?

Who doesn't already own a tv though? Bit of a false equivalency I think.

 

[Gaiff]

Who doesn't already own a tv though? Bit of a false equivalency I think.

Who doesn't own a computer monitor?

It's funny that the console couch gaming champions love bragging about their 75" $5000 TV, but a $500 monitor is all of a sudden an issue.

 

[Sethbacca]

Who doesn't own a computer monitor?

The exact person I talked about that hasn't previously owned a pc gaming setup? Most non gamers these days buy laptops.

 

[lh032]

as usual, alot of tryhard pc part picker comparison.

Im pretty sure these hardware "prices" are not accurate outside of US.

And i still believe games will run better on console if both console and PC have similar setups.

 

[twilo99]

as usual, alot of tryhard pc part picker comparison.

Don't have to try hard at all with the new PS5 pro pricing

 

[Gaiff]

The exact person I talked about that hasn't previously owned a pc gaming setup? Most non gamers these days buy laptops.

And still own a monitor anyway. Or are we going to pretend that all those non-gamers don't also work on their laptops and have a home office?

As I said before, same people who brag about their $5000 TVs and comfy couch gaming will suddenly cry foul over a $500 monitor. Those comparisons are always hilariously dishonest from Windows licenses to those choosing shitty PSUs and motherboards to keep the cost of their garbage gaming PCs down.

 

[Silver Wattle]

A windows license. What fucking year is this? 1998?

You expect these tech illiterate normies to not only not buy windows but to install it after they have somehow not fried their brain trying to assemble the thing?

 

[Sethbacca]

And still own a monitor anyway. Or are we going to pretend that all those non-gamers don't also work on their laptops and have a home office?

As I said before, same people who brag about their $5000 TVs and comfy couch gaming will suddenly cry foul over a $500 monitor. Those comparisons are always hilariously dishonest from Windows licenses to those choosing shitty PSUs and motherboards to keep the cost of their garbage gaming PCs down.

I'll grant you there's some overlap of people who are professionals who will own a monitor. My gut tells me that isn't going to be even 1/3rd of the people that we would be talking about though. Regardless it's a pointless discussion without stats.

Shit man, I wish I owned a $5000 tv, but I'm still running a TCL 6 series from like 5 years ago which was good value for money at the time but still nothing compared to modern sets.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

Deleted

 

[lh032]

Don't have to try hard at all with the new PS5 pro pricing

you seems pretty upset, you ok?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

PS5 pro will do 4k60 but likely will be upscaling from 1080p.

So an upcoming 5060 gpu might be able to match it with dlss.

 

[Mister Wolf]

You forgot a nice monitor, keyboard and mouse if you're coming from no previous PC setup so you're looking at at least another 200-300 on top of that.

You would use your television the same way u do for a console. A wireless keyboard with touchpad is cheap.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The issue with not having a disc-drive on a console is that you're restricted to a single digital storefront for purchasing games, where prices might not be competitive. In contrast, on a PC, you have multiple digital stores to choose from, offering more options and potentially better deals.

And yet you have all those nerds complaining when a game isn't available on Steam.

 

[Sethbacca]

You would use your television the same way u do for a console.

Fair point I guess if you're using it as a console replacement. I wouldn't personally use it that way because I like plug and play in the living room, but I get it.

You expect these tech illiterate normies to not only not buy windows but to install it after they have somehow not fried their brain trying to assemble the thing?

Todays PCs are basically Lego. Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together can figure it out with a couple minutes of youtube. Way easier than when I put my first pc together in the mid 90s thats for sure.

 

[RaidenJTr7]

I haven't found that. Plenty of major games don't get a PC release until years later. In some cases not at all. There's reason port begging is done almost exclusively by PCMR and not console players. Consoles are not wanting for games.

There are many console gamers port begging for PC games like Half life Alyx , Squadron 42 etc.. even for microsoft games that are day one on PC but they want them to be on PS5 too still no Starfield or Hellblade 2 on ps5 till this day will fable and perfect dark even be day one on ps5?
Microsoft made games for PC windows before xbox was even a thing..

 

[scydrex]

You forgot a nice monitor, keyboard and mouse if you're coming from no previous PC setup so you're looking at at least another 200-300 on top of that.

Exactly like my case. Don't have anything.

 

[Gaiff]

I'll grant you there's some overlap of people who are professionals who will own a monitor. My gut tells me that isn't going to be even 1/3rd of the people that we would be talking about though. Regardless it's a pointless discussion without stats.

Shit man, I wish I owned a $5000 tv, but I'm still running a TCL 6 series from like 5 years ago which was good value for money at the time but still nothing compared to modern sets.

My point was more that the display issue is a two-way street. I wouldn't recommend anyone game on their office monitor, but I also wouldn't recommend anyone game on their basic bitch 1080p/4K/60Hz/LED TV which are much more common than high-end ones, let alone premium OLED TVs.

It's 2024 and bog standard TVs no longer suffice for consoles. You want ones with HDR, native 120Hz support (not trash motion interpolation), HDMI 2.0+, and VRR because those consoles struggle to maintain 60fps very frequently and you don't want all that judder and screen tearing.

It's no more honest to assume everyone has a good gaming TV than it is to assume they have a good gaming monitor. If you factor in a monitor's price in the PC build, then it's only fair you require for the console to have an equally good TV.

These comparisons should be kept at an academic level. We should only compare the value proposition and leave it at that. They always devolve into stupidity, however. On the one hand, you have people building crappy $500 PCs to match consoles, and on the other hand, you have console gamers pretending they don't have controllers lying around or need to buy a Windows license.

These comparisons are always frivolous and dumb because they miss the point 90% of the time.

 

[Trogdor1123]

You can't? Well you better call the cops on me, because I've been doing that for quite some years now.

Can you explain to me how? I've been searching for a way to do it since I moved over to pc gaming this year. I've not yet found a way to do it on pc and would really appreciate your help!

 

[Filben]

According to the Steam survey, just under 4% of PC users have 4K monitors (a few percentage points more for various widescreen resolutions). So it's apples and oranges.

And besides, if PSSR runs in "performance mode" for the 60 FPS modes, then that's a 1080p base resolution on PC, where 12 GB should be fine.

While 4k is not that popular among PC players it's usually what the PS5 is advertised as, at least now with the Pro. So I took that resolution for comparison. And I think enthusiasts who spend a lot on hardware might be among those 4%.

Personally, I'm playing on 3440x1440, so not full 4k. Still, Alan Wake 2 with HDR and RT on and DLSS on quality (so still way sub-1440p-resolution) is eating up 10GB easily. A slightly higher resolution and or a bigger open world will fill up 12 GB quickly is my guess. I wouldn't want to be restricted by that when everything else is running solid and is performing good and I spent several hundreds of EUR on a GPU that shouldn't feel insufficient come next year with the next big game.

A lot has also to do with optimization of course. Diablo 4 was eating way more than 12GB of RAM on ultra textures and it was such a stuttery mess and high textures where so blurry at times that you wonder how they fill the VRAM; they needed *months* to fix that VRAM issue. I know that this is on the developers, but sometimes, with PC gaming, you have to "brute force" your way through devs' incompetence and/or budget restraints. Having some leeway is a good thing.

Anyhow, this isn't facts but just my personal experience and If I'd buy a new GPU it would be with 16GB.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Can you explain to me how? I've been searching for a way to do it since I moved over to pc gaming this year. I've not yet found a way to do it on pc and would really appreciate your help!

How? It's really easy man. Just plug your PC to the TV via HDMI, simple as that. If you've got multiple screens connected you can pick primary or secondary by pressing Windows + P on the keyboard, then picking whatever corresponds to your TV.

Want it to be even more comfy? Go to Steam, click on the Steam button on the upper-right corner and click "Parameters". Once you are there go to the "Interface" section and check the buttons for "Launch Steam on system launch" and "Start Steam on Big Picture mode".

There, that's it! Only thing left could be launching the PC just by pressing a button on the gamepad, but I'm not sure if that's doable, never looked into that.

 

[Trogdor1123]

How? It's really easy man. Just plug your PC to the TV via HDMI, simple as that. If you've got multiple screens connected you can pick primary or secondary by pressing Windows + P on the keyboard, then picking whatever corresponds to your TV.

Want it to be even more comfy? Go to Steam, click on the Steam button on the upper-right corner and click "Parameters". Once you are there go to the "Interface" section and check the buttons for "Launch Steam on system launch" and "Start Steam on Big Picture mode".

There, that's it! Only thing left could be launching the PC just by pressing a button on the gamepad, but I'm not sure if that's doable, never looked into that.

I have that, no issue there, but I want a way I can jump on the couch and grab my controller and fire it up as you would with ps5 or Xbox. Something that can slide between stores would be great too but I suspect that is wishful thinking.