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[Orta]

Balanced? Well I suppose you could argue it'll probably be more balanced if you position it horizontally on a nice flat surface as opposed to the vertical tower style orientation of the xbox that could tip off the side of a desk or tv unit.

Honestly, I've had two warnings over my gloating, fair enough, but some of the PS5 comments being made over the past 24 hours warrant nothing but a childish retort.

I'm neutral, I'm not buying either console, I'm just sitting back and enjoying the fallout after Sony's conference.

 

[vito_don_corleone_]

Does not matter if it is more balanced. Xbox SeX is like 25% more powerful than PS5. I hope Sony is targeting a lower price tag.

It's 20% difference.

And balance does matter a lot. Game design consists so many elements these days it's important to have it right. Probably that's why Devs are praising PS5 so much.

Also, if PS5 will be able to hit 4K/60fps (looks like it should) those extra 2TFLOPS in Xbox won't matter anymore...

 

[Mattyp]

Even if the SSD:s are fast - I really dont see them being used as "extra ram". Speed and latency is still miles from ram (GDDR6 in this case).

NVME - 250 microseconds latency.
GDDR6 - 10 - 20 nanoseconds latency.

1 nanosecond = 0.001 microseconds.

NVME PS5 - 8 GB/second
GDDR6 PS5 - 448 GB/second.

Please don't bring science into it.

Here for everyone thinking loading times will come into it, both the PS5 and xbox drives are faster than the nvme and SSD in this comparison. But the difference between two is in comparisson with about the gap of the PS5 and Xbox drives.

Also, if PS5 will be able to hit 4K/60fps (looks like it should) those extra 2TFLOPS in Xbox won't matter anymore...

Like the 1080ti can already do 4K, why bother buying a 2080ti at all the computing power ceases to matter.

 

[GymWolf]

I can't wait for them to show what the PS5 actually looks like. Then we can have the inevitable "It's the only system that will fit in my entertainment setup" threads.

i think that part of why ps5 is underpowered is because they aimed for that elegant not fridge shaped console look.

curious about the cooling technology for ps5.

 

[sonomamashine]

I can't wait for them to show what the PS5 actually looks like. Then we can have the inevitable "It's the only system that will fit in my entertainment setup" threads.

Legends has it will look like a zubor .

 

[Dory16]

the gpu needs to borrow power from the cpu to reach its potential, it's the least balanced thing ever.


You'll be fine.

And they say Cerny is a genius. The guy must have hypnotized Sony's management or it was the only way to claim a double digit Teraflops capacity. Cerny should write a book on desperation driven design.

 

[Filippos]

i think that part of why ps5 is underpowered is because they aimed for that elegant not fridge shaped console look.

curious about the cooling technology for ps5.

And I could care less how it looks like.

the performance and how loud the console will be is much more important to me.

 

[cireza]

A lot of people are suffering it seems.

 

[ancelotti]

I think people are forgetting that both systems now support 120hz. In a variable refresh rate world there is no GPU power being left on the table and suddenly TFLOPs are a lot more meaningful to the gameplay experience. If I ever see my GPU below 100% utilization then I think something wrong or I've forgotten to turn off the in game vsync.

 

[Hendrick's]

PS5 is the lesser system. Get over it and move on.

 

[Bankai]

PS5 is the lesser system. Get over it and move on.

Who are you talking to? If YOU don't want to discuss the specifics, then why bother replying? I really don't get these replies.

Of course the PS5 is weakers, that's in my opening statement. The numbers don't lie. That's not the point of this topic.

 

[Dory16]

I have a hunch that SSD will indeed be more than it looks, that it will affect to the REAL next gen experience

More cpu+gpu power = can output more and prettier pixels

but much faster SSD = can affect to game design of worlds, areas, physics, mechanics and the whole deal

Oh really? So Fifa and COD will probably make their design decisions based on the PS5's SSD then.
Sony's first party studios are under tremendous pressure to justify this "balanced" design. If they dont come out with something unthinkable before, the PS5 could go down as the biggest technical blunder in recent memory. Not because their in their opinion innovative vision didn't satisfy the customer like the DRM/Kinect stuff. But because they went cheap and then panicked when they heard what the competition was up to.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Actually the XSX is by far the more balanced system.
A console that has a really powerful cpu running at 3.8 GHz, with no asterisks, no «if you put strain on the gpu, the cpu will run slower» , no nothing, just a great cpu.
A console that has a very fast and ultra powerful GPU, again with no asterisks. Running at very high clock speeds (over 1,8 GHz) consistently, again with no asterisks and variable speeds, and with enough CU to provide an unprecedented number of RDNA2 TF in the console space (12.155)
A console that has a great Ram set up. 320 mb/s bus 10 GB at 560 GB/s plus an extra 3.5 GB/s at a lower, but still more than respectable 336 GB/s. (the other 2.5 GB are for the OS). This set up will feed the powerful GPU extremely well.
A very fast SSD , more than enough for a generational leap compared to the previous generation of consoles.
All in all an extremely balanced system in everything that will perform as promised with no ifs and buts in sight.

On the other hand we have
A console with a less powerful and slower cpu that nobody can tell at how many GHz it will run when devs want to push the clocks in the GPU.
A substantially underpowered GPU with only 36 CU, something that Sony fans were saying was imposssible to happen and that it would be extremely bad before the ps5 released specs, clocked at an insane speed that will have to take away from the CPU clock speed to be used at its peak and still all we have is Cerny's word that it will reach this clock speed at a decent rate.
A signicantly slower memory pool for games (I don't know how much memory Sony will allocate to the OS so that's another unknown because unlike MS they haven't said anything ) with a slower memory bus (256 mb/s) at 446 GB/s.
An extremely, out of this world SSD with insane speeds.

These are the cold, hard Numbers. How in the hell is the PS5 more balanced I have no idea.

 

[Rightisright]

The average speed of the XSXs 13.5gig of RAM for games is 500GB/s, while the 13.5gig of PS5 RAM for games is 448GB/s. So 10% faster RAM for XSX.
The XSX GPU is more powerful by 18%.
The CPU is faster.
The CPU and GPU have fixed speeds, unlike the PS5. Far better for developers.
The XSX has both VRS and ML that the PS5 doesn't.
The PS5 has a faster SSD, which will give faster game load times....by maybe a second or two.
In game streaming of assets there will be of no benefit.
The XOX put out full 4k resolution using a old mechanical drive with 140MB/s speed, feeding into slower GDDR 5 RAM on a smaller bus. The XSX SSD will feed 4.8GB/s of data into faster GDDR6 RAM. There will.be no bottlenecks from the XSX point of view. If you say there will be, well that doesnt bode well for PS5, as it has slower RAM than the XSX, so it's bottleneck will be worse.
Sure the PS5 will load up PS5 games twice as fast as XSX. Sony want games loaded up in one second. Which means the XSX will load games up in two seconds. I'm not sure anyone is going to care about that in the slightest.

Now having said all that, the PS5 will be just fine. I expect third party devs to use the PS5 as lead and port over to XSX. So unless the game has frame rate issues on PS5 I expect parity from third party games. So, the extra power will be in the hands of MSs studios to do something with.

 

[teezzy]

More balance?!

Lmao, next you're going to cite the PS5's blast processing.

Your preferred company is releasing the lesser product in terms of hardware specs. It's okay to admit that and still prefer their platform overall, I promise.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Does not matter if it is more balanced. Xbox SeX is like 25% more powerful than PS5. I hope Sony is targeting a lower price tag.

What the point when you don't have enough fast memory and a slow sdd? Its full power will never be a thing.

 

[GymWolf]

And I could care less how it looks like.

the performance and how loud the console will be is much more important to me.

same, i absolutely don't give a fuck about shape and form.

 

[Bankai]

More balance?!

Lmao, next you're going to cite the PS5's blast processing.

Your preferred company is releasing the lesser product in terms of hardware specs. It's okay to admit that and still prefer their platform overall, I promise.

Blast processing, those were the days

Nah, it's nothing like that. I'm referring to something which Digital Foundry and other techsites also acknowledge (and I somehow have to keep repeating, because people don't read): the effect of a potential bottleneck (RAM) and a possible solution for it in a (faster) SSD and dedicated hardware.

But hey, if you want to qualify me as a "fanboy" go right ahead, I don't mind It don't add anything relevant to the discussion though.

 

[Starfield]

That's not how computers work. The only difference a faster SSD will make is that your games load faster/MAYBE less hickups in content streaming. That's it.

If you want better graphics/ai/resolution you are going to need more gpu/cpu power.



I really feel like its 2013 again, only that this time there is less banter going on but even more denial...and the denial was already huge back in 2013

 

[Von Hugh]

Denial
Anger
Bargaining <-- OP is here
Depression
Acceptance

 

[Fulcizombie]

As far as the «streaming the assets» theory goes, which has nothing to do with the balance of a system anyway, people do understand that these assets must first be created by the gpu and run in parallel with the cpu right ? They aren't coming out of thin air so that the ps5 SSD can «stream them».

In short, XSX , great in everything and a true achievement in the console space that nobody thought was possible a year ago.
PS5, a good conservative system, just like the ps4, that has some asterisks because Sony was afraid of the XSX' raw numbers with an industry leading SSD.

 

[Dibils2k]

Also, if PS5 will be able to hit 4K/60fps (looks like it should) those extra 2TFLOPS in Xbox won't matter anymore...

that would be called parity and people dont like that around here

most likely they will utilize the extra 2TFLOPS to give Xbox better graphics, effects, performance or whatever... like they have always done when there is a more powerful console

 

[LokusAbriss]

The tflop-number was the most speculated part for months and is obviously one of the most important performance indicators for the hardware comparison.

All of a sudden, because the PS5 is significantly down on this number in comparison, tflops dont matter anymore.

 

[Fulcizombie]

That's not how computers work. The only difference a faster SSD will make is that your games load faster/MAYBE less hickups in content streaming. That's it.

If you want better graphics/ai/resolution you are going to need more gpu/cpu power.



I really feel like its 2013 again, only that this time there is less banter going on but even more denial...and the denial was already huge back in 2013

The denial is silly. I knew that the ps4 was more powerful, I bought one on launch day, the end. I knew that the Xbox one x was more powerful than the pro. I know that the XSX is more powerful than the ps5. It is what it is.

 

[CAB_Life]

You're in the "bargaining" phase at the moment; depression and acceptance are up next.

This is the same fanboy, armchair analysis we dealt with last gen when the X1 specs were revealed. One machine is weaker than the other and while creative engineering and game design will mask some of the PS5's shortcomings, performance metrics do not lie.

 

[Fulcizombie]

The tflop-number was the most speculated part for months and is obviously one of the most important performance indicators for the hardware comparison.

All of a sudden, because the PS5 is significantly down on this number in comparison, tflops dont matter anymore.

It's not just the TF, the XSX is better in everything but the SSD, We have , again a repeat of the Xbox one x situation where many were saying «oh it is just the TF» until the Xbox one x started running games like RDR2 in native 4k.

 

[Hosam6xavi]

I'd like to order more SSD balance please

 

[mortal]

Why even bother spinning it like this? The Series X is the more powerful console, just accept it and move on.

For some reason, I doubt people would as impartial to the Series X had the situation been reversed.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Sony was looking to make a 9 TF console with a revolutionary SSD while cutting costs in everything else (like Ram speed) until they got wind of what MS was preparing. Then they overclocked the gpu , cause it was the only last minute measure they could take, and presented a console with variable clock speeds for both the Cpu&gpu..

 

[mrBarrelNut]

SDD tech on both consoles will offer huge memory savings, although streaming speed should be even more impressive on PS5.

Right now I wonder if XSX will also have a dedicated audio chip like PS5, because if RT audio will use GPU RT resources on XSX then graphics performance will be impacted making XSX slower despite having slighty faster GPU.

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

news.xbox.com

Spatial Audio – Spatial Audio delivers deeply immersive audio which enables the player to more accurately pinpoint objects in a 3D play space. With full support for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic, Xbox Series X has custom audio hardware to offload audio processing from the CPU, dramatically improving the accessibility, quality and performance of these immersive experiences.

 

[MrMiyagi]

Actually the XSX is by far the more balanced system.
A console that has a really powerful cpu running at 3.8 GHz, with no asterisks, no «if you put strain on the gpu, the cpu will run slower» , no nothing, just a great cpu.
A console that has a very fast and ultra powerful GPU, again with no asterisks. Running at very high clock speeds (over 1,8 GHz) consistently, again with no asterisks and variable speeds, and with enough CU to provide an unprecedented number of RDNA2 TF in the console space (12.155)
A console that has a great Ram set up. 320 mb/s bus 10 GB at 560 GB/s plus an extra 3.5 GB/s at a lower, but still more than respectable 336 GB/s. (the other 2.5 GB are for the OS). This set up will feed the powerful GPU extremely well.
A very fast SSD , more than enough for a generational leap compared to the previous generation of consoles.
All in all an extremely balanced system in everything that will perform as promised with no ifs and buts in sight.

On the other hand we have
A console with a less powerful and slower cpu that nobody can tell at how many GHz it will run when devs want to push the clocks in the GPU.
A substantially underpowered GPU with only 36 CU, something that Sony fans were saying was imposssible to happen and that it would be extremely bad before the ps5 released specs, clocked at an insane speed that will have to take away from the CPU clock speed to be used at its peak and still all we have is Cerny's word that it will reach this clock speed at a decent rate.
A signicantly slower memory pool for games (I don't know how much memory Sony will allocate to the OS so that's another unknown because unlike MS they haven't said anything ) with a slower memory bus (256 mb/s) at 446 GB/s.
An extremely, out of this world SSD with insane speeds.

These are the cold, hard Numbers. How in the hell is the PS5 more balanced I have no idea.

Price is a pretty important thing to take into consideration when we're talking about balance, at least when building a mass market console. If both consoles will be priced equally, we'll see if betting on SSD vs overall specs was the smartest option. However, if the ps5 will launch at $399 and Series X at $599, the next console war will be over before it even started. Especially if games come out that take full advantage of the "out of this world SSD" and it does turn out to be a game changer.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Why even bother spinning it like this? The Series X is the more powerful console, just accept it and move on.

For some reason, I doubt people would as impartial to the Series X had the situation been reversed.

Had MS dared to announce an inferior specced console with variable clock speeds, on top of that, they would have been laughed out of the Internet.

 

[GamingKaiju]

Oh come on this is getting stupid now. These are the same arguments I saw on Gaf with X1 vs PS4 except in reverse,

X fans saying cloud computing would be the game changer, the Xbox has a d-gpu blah blah

It is what it is. Sony pulled a 2013 MS and fiddled with the clock speeds to get the performance on a reasonable par with its competitor, SSD tech will not have that much have a noticeable difference when your playing the games we're talking micro seconds in load times vs XsX stable FPS/higher graphic fidelity and fixed res vs ps5 dynamic res.

It's funny seeing Sony fans claim that TF performance isn't that important when in 2013 they were singing it from the roof tops.

I've said it a few times now but the difference in performance was smaller between the x1 and PS4 and there were noticeable differences between the 2 on multiplats and we're going to see it again.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Price is a pretty important thing to take into consideration when we're talking about balance, at least when building a mass market console. If both consoles will be priced equally, we'll see if betting on SSD vs overall specs was the smartest option. However, if the ps5 will launch at $399 and Series X at $599, the next console war will be over before it even started. Especially if games come out that take full advantage of the "out of this world SSD" and it does turn out to be a game changer.

Price has nothing to do with balance, we have a system that is great in everything and a system that is revolutionary in one aspect and decent in everything else. You can make a balanced console that costs 200$ and you can make a balanced console that costs 1000$. When you have one amazing component and everything else is mediocre, (and that's before we even take into account the suspicious variable clock speeds) it is not called balance.

 

[mortal]

Had MS dared to announce an inferior specced console with variable clock speeds, on top of that, they would have been laughed out of the Internet.

That's the thing though. The jump from PS4 to PS5 is actually not that bad. Games will look and run wonderfully. It's just not as powerful as the Series X.
I just hope the PS5 is reasonably priced compared to the Series X. Would be hilarious if both end up in the same ballpark in pricing though.

 

[TLZ]

Grasping on to that SSD again... I would say PS5 is less balanced, because it's super fast SSD can't be used to the max due to that less powerful RAM/CPU/GPU.

Even though Cerny's clear messaging was Balanced Evolution and Revolution.

 

[darkinstinct]

That's the thing though. The jump from PS4 to PS5 is actually not that bad. Games will look and run wonderfully.

Cerny said 8 TF is needed for 4K at PS4 graphics quality. Then designs a next gen console targeting 4K at 10 TF. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Fulcizombie]

That's the thing though. The jump from PS4 to PS5 is actually not that bad. Games will look and run wonderfully.
I just hope the PS5 is reasonably priced compared to the Series X. Would be hilarious if both end up in the same ballpark in pricing though.

I agree. The jump is good, so was the jump from ps3->ps4. That doesn't mean that the ps4 wasn't a conservative console for its time that gained mythical status, in terms of hardware power, because the Xbox one was shit.

Again the shitstorm if Ms had dared to present variable clock speeds would be a sight to behold.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Even though Cerny's clear messaging was Balanced Evolution and Revolution.

Cerny is a Sony employee, what exactly would he say, in light of the XSX being more powerful and more.....wait for it...steady ?

 

[pawel86ck]

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

news.xbox.com

I'm familiar with this article, however nothing is mentioned now in extremely detailed eurogamer article in regards to XSX. PS5 has a dedicated audio chip for sure and both Sony and Digital Foundy talked about it.

 

[TLZ]

Cerny is a Sony employee, what exactly would he say, in light of the XSX being more powerful and more.....wait for it...steady ?

That's their goal. They have their own strategy. That's what they went for. You think what they did was reactionary? You're being silly. This was clearly their goal for a while now, as Xbox's goal was power. Each doing things differently.

Even their messaging has been obvious for a while too. Xbox kept talking power, while PS speed. I remember at one point they had "the fastest console" on their website and then removed.

 

[Bankai]

You're in the "bargaining" phase at the moment; depression and acceptance are up next.

This is the same fanboy, armchair analysis we dealt with last gen when the X1 specs were revealed. One machine is weaker than the other and while creative engineering and game design will mask some of the PS5's shortcomings, performance metrics do not lie.

Thanks mr. armchair psychologist, I really needed that and feel better already It's so nice to have people on the internet telling me what's going on with me, because I am such a confused individual.

It's a console man, I - just - want - the -discussion, not a diagnosis of my state of mind. I've stated it numerous times (but I'll make it bold so you might read it) : YES THE XBOX ONE SERIES X IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PS5! Because I know that it is and I love MS for going all in! it is NOT the point of discussion here.

 

[Sota4077]

God damn some folks around here have really sucked down the koolaid. Suddenly power is irrelevant and it is all about the all important speed of an SSD and this "balance". The PS5 is a weaker console. If that is an issue for you then buy the Series X. If not then buy the PS5. My god some of you are just such children about this shit.

 

[Fulcizombie]

That's their goal. They have their own strategy. That's what they went for. You think what they did was reactionary? You're being silly. This was clearly their goal for a while now, as Xbox's goal was power. Each doing things differently.

Even their messaging has been obvious for a while too. Xbox kept talking power, while PS speed. I remember at one point they had "the fastest console" on their website and then removed.

Their goal was to have variable clock speeds and a gpu clocked at 2.3 GHz ? I really doubt that but we will see how it goes in action and I am not talking about performance but about the actual use of the console and how it will cope with this horrible (imo) set up.

Oh and the speed of the console is not determined by the speed of its hard drive, but by the speed of its cpu, gpu, Ram e.t.c so this talk about speed is silly.

 

[Sota4077]

That's their goal. They have their own strategy. That's what they went for. You think what they did was reactionary? You're being silly. This was clearly their goal for a while now, as Xbox's goal was power. Each doing things differently.

Even their messaging has been obvious for a while too. Xbox kept talking power, while PS speed. I remember at one point they had "the fastest console" on their website and then removed.

What Sony is doing is exactly what a company does when they are beat on something. The pivot. Microsoft got whooped on sales so they went to Live Users. They were selling fewer games so they lumped in PC games as well. Sony are simply painting their situation in the best light. That's all. They do not have some grand marketing plan about speed. They're promoting what they can. Xbox One promoted cloud computing at the beginning of this generation too which was silly.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

I love how Sony fanboys are trying to rationalize a weaker console by using the balancing tagline that Mark Cerny was throwing out during his presentation as high level speak as an excuse for lower specs than the Series X.

 

[LokusAbriss]

That's their goal. They have their own strategy. That's what they went for. You think what they did was reactionary? You're being silly. This was clearly their goal for a while now, as Xbox's goal was power. Each doing things differently.

Even their messaging has been obvious for a while too. Xbox kept talking power, while PS speed. I remember at one point they had "the fastest console" on their website and then removed.

When their goal was to load a game in 1 sec, but to pass on graphic enhancements and resolution, then I will be much happier with an XSX.

I would rather have additional enhancements like better shadows or better antialising and wait some seconds longer for a game to load. Nearly 2 tflops is a lot.

Sony made so much money from the PS4, why couldnt they afford better hardware? Will the better SSD even be that noticable?

 

[Rightisright]

What the point when you don't have enough fast memory and a slow sdd? Its full power will never be a thing.

XSX has faster RAM. Its some 60GB/s quicker on average than PS5.

 

[Shmunter]

2 TF won't change the games, but the ssd in the ps5 does have game changing potential.

Being able to stream twice or more the assets in real-time is no 0 sum equation. How often this potential will be exploited is another matter.

 

[TGO]

PS3 had a split pool of ram
One fast, one standard
And was suppose to be more powerful