PS5 seems more balanced than Xbox One Series X

darkinstinct said:
Typically when you measure the difference between two systems you go from the weaker and look at how much more powerful the other is, not the other way around. XSX is around 20 % more powerful. Which is the same as PS5 is 15 % weaker.
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You're wrong but 20% is less than half the difference between PS4 and XB1. This is on paper.

But we don't judge graphics cards based on tflops, no PC gamer does that as it would be retarded.

Yes, Series X on paper is 15% ahead, but actual performance between the two is a total mystery at this point.
 
darkinstinct said:
But that's the whole idea of the system. It will clock down. Either the CPU or the GPU. It can't run both at max specs, just one.
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I have a hard time understaning how that is a good scenario for a gaming pc / game console. The solid frequencies of XSX make more sense. I hope the cooling system of the PS5 is ready for the heat.

it_wasn't_me said:
But it can???
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Not, if the CPU uses all the power to hold its boost frequency. As I understand, there is a max number of power input for the console. The cpu and gpu have to share that. If a developer uses that power to use, the full cpu potential, the gpu seems to reach only over 9 tflops.
 
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Coulomb_Barrier said:
Joe you havent factored in memory bandwidth advantage for PS5 or its heavy pipeline customizations so don't give me 30% tales from your barse lmao.

No way real world perf difference is gonna be close to that. 5% advantage for PS5 maybe 1🙂
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You know the X has higher memory bandwidth too, right?
 
LokusAbriss said:
I have a hard time understaning how that is a good scenario for a gaming pc / game console. The solid frequencies of XSX make more sense. I hope the cooling system of the PS5 is ready for the heat.


Not, if the CPU uses all the power to hold its boost frequency. As I understand, there is a max number of power input for the console. The cpu and gpu have to share that. If a developer uses that power to use, the full cpu potential, the gpu seems to reach only over 9 tflops.
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Uh. I really hate repeating myself, but In the presentation Cerny specified both the CPU and GPU would run max clocks most of the time. Video timestamp around 37 min.
 
LokusAbriss said:
I have a hard time understaning how that is a good scenario for a gaming pc / game console. The solid frequencies of XSX make more sense. I hope the cooling system of the PS5 is ready for the heat.
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You're contradicting yourself.

If Series X runs fixed frequencies all the time, it's going to be hot and power hungry, not the PS5. Series X CPU is clocked very high for a console. 3.8Ghz locked is going to get toasty and this 400Mhz extra on it was unnecessary.
 
Coulomb_Barrier said:
You're wrong but 20% is less than half the difference between PS4 and XB1. This is on paper.

But we don't judge graphics cards based on tflops, no PC gamer does that as it would be retarded.

Yes, Series X on paper is 15% ahead, but actual performance between the two is a total mystery at this point.
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It's not a mystery, you sound like Mr Xmedia.

It couldn't be more straightforward.
 
Johnglen said:
Actually the XSX is by far the more balanced system.
A console that has a really powerful cpu running at 3.8 GHz, with no asterisks, no «if you put strain on the gpu, the cpu will run slower» , no nothing, just a great cpu.
A console that has a very fast and ultra powerful GPU, again with no asterisks. Running at very high clock speeds (over 1,8 GHz) consistently, again with no asterisks and variable speeds, and with enough CU to provide an unprecedented number of RDNA2 TF in the console space (12.155)
A console that has a great Ram set up. 320 mb/s bus 10 GB at 560 GB/s plus an extra 3.5 GB/s at a lower, but still more than respectable 336 GB/s. (the other 2.5 GB are for the OS). This set up will feed the powerful GPU extremely well.
A very fast SSD , more than enough for a generational leap compared to the previous generation of consoles.
All in all an extremely balanced system in everything that will perform as promised with no ifs and buts in sight.

On the other hand we have
A console with a less powerful and slower cpu that nobody can tell at how many GHz it will run when devs want to push the clocks in the GPU.
A substantially underpowered GPU with only 36 CU, something that Sony fans were saying was imposssible to happen and that it would be extremely bad before the ps5 released specs, clocked at an insane speed that will have to take away from the CPU clock speed to be used at its peak and still all we have is Cerny's word that it will reach this clock speed at a decent rate.
A signicantly slower memory pool for games (I don't know how much memory Sony will allocate to the OS so that's another unknown because unlike MS they haven't said anything ) with a slower memory bus (256 mb/s) at 446 GB/s.
An extremely, out of this world SSD with insane speeds.

These are the cold, hard Numbers. How in the hell is the PS5 more balanced I have no idea.
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You'd think this could be easy to understand. Bias is seriously clouding these people's lenses. There is only 1 balanced, uncompromising system here, and it's the Xbox Series X. Numbers don't lie!

Can anyone get Cerny on the phone and ask him the base clock speeds of the GPU and CPU? It seems he doesn't want to say. Imagine that, for your CPU to perform optimally, your GPU has to make some sacrifices. That is what you call balanced?

The ONLY thing Sony was balancing here, was their budget! Denying facts (that are right in front of you) doesn't make them any less factual!
 
Coulomb_Barrier said:
You're contradicting yourself.

If Series X runs fixed frequencies all the time, it's going to be hot and power hungry, not the PS5. Series X CPU is clocked very high for a console. 3.8Ghz locked is going to get toasty and this 400Mhz extra on it was unnecessary.
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Well, Microsoft build a giant fan and an efficient box to tackle that problem. Sony can't even show a finished box.
 
Caio said:
I think it's 15%, look
12.155 : 100 = 10.28 : X

X = 10.28TF X 100%
--------- = 84.57%. PS5 TF are 84.57% compared to XSX, the difference is roughly 15.42%. For the rest I agree with you !
12.155TF
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It's not; it's greater than that. Because, for the GPU to perform optimally, the CPU begins to throttle and hit those base clock speeds (which we don't know the numbers to, but they're typically 200Hz-300Hz less than boost clock speeds). In fact, their boosted CPU clock speed is less than the Series X' base, sustained, clock speed.

The RAM is also gimped, compared to the Series X.

I think this system is between 20%-25% weaker than the Series X, in totality.
 
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It is not.

Xbox has a better balance of hardware that multiplatform and exclusive games can all take advantage of.

The fast SSD in PS5 might be great for exclusives but multiplats won't use it to its full extent because they have to design around PC io limitations.

PS5 is good but Xbox sex is better based on the usability and performance of the hardware.
 
sdrawkcab said:
It's not; it's greater than that. Because, for the GPU to perform optimally, the CPU begins to throttle and hit those base clock speeds (which we don't know the numbers to, but they're typically 200Hz-300Hz less than boost clock speeds). In fact, their boosted CPU clock speed is less than the Series X' base, sustained, clock speed.

The RAM is also gimped, compared to the Series X.

I think this system is between 20%-25% weaker than the Series X, in totality.
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Tales from your arse.
 
it_wasn't_me said:
Trying grasping at straws. Nice
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Is he far from the truth? No bro, no he isn't. They OC'ed it over 10 to save face. PS5 is 3 TF behind XsX at worst.

Sony got caught with their pants down by cheapening out a bit and now people are doing some serious mental gymnastics to believe for a second that they intended any of this to be what it is.

Quite hilarious to see.
 
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MilkyJoe said:
It's as plain as day 😂
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Still trying grasping at straws.

Slayer-33 said:
Is he far from the truth? No bro, no he isn't. They OC'ed it over 10 to save face. PS5 is 3 TF behind a XsX at worst.

Sony got caught with their pants down by cheapening out a bit and now people are doing some serious mental gymnastics to believe for a second that they intended any of this to be what it is.

Quite hilarious to see.
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Yes he is. Looks like you trying grasping at straws too. You should listen what Mark Cerny said yesterday, NOT what DF ANALYSTS trying to figure it out how it works. Repeating the same crap again :In the presentation Cerny specified both the CPU and GPU would run max clocks most of the time. Video timestamp around 37 min.
 
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Slayer-33 said:
Is he far from the truth? No bro, no he isn't. They OC'ed it over 10 to save face. PS5 is 3 TF behind XsX at worst.

Sony got caught with their pants down by cheapening out a bit and now people are doing some serious mental gymnastics to believe for a second that they intended any of this to be what it is.

Quite hilarious to see.
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Lets see how Series X sells outside NA with it's premium price before you lift off through excitement
 
it_wasn't_me said:
Still trying grasping at straws.



Yes he is. Looks like you trying grasping at straws too. You should listen what Mark Cerny said yesterday, NOT what DF ANALYSTS trying to figure it out how it works. Repeating the same crap again :In the presentation Cerny specified both the CPU and GPU would run max clocks most of the time. Video timestamp around 37 min.
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If it wasn't a last minute then why didn't they up the CUs and lock the frequency?

Coulomb_Barrier said:
Lets see how Series X sells outside NA with it's premium price before you lift off through excitement
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How much is the X?
 
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I do believe the SSD will be a game changer, but Sony sure dropped the ball with its presentation, though. They obviously didn't want people to compare Tflops, but that's exactly what everybody's doing now lol. They should have shown some kind of tech demo to explain what the SSD stuff actually means for game development and why they're putting so much of a focus on it. Now everybody will just see 10 vs 12Tflops and ps5 having a smaller SSD...

Still, I think we can only talk about balance when we know the prices and see some concepts of what Sony's SSD tech can do with twice the interface bandwith, that the Series X can't.
 
MilkyJoe said:
If it wasn't a last minute then why didn't they up the CUs and lock the frequency?
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Oh, you frickin didn't read what i said about Switch few post ago, but instead you still trying grasping at straws. Otherwise if just you read some part of the quote regarding Switch, maybe you wouldn't ask that. Why they didn't locked? Maybe because different design philosophy.
 
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it_wasn't_me said:
Still trying grasping at straws.



Yes he is. Looks like you trying grasping at straws too. You should listen what Mark Cerny said yesterday, NOT what DF ANALYSTS trying to figure it out how it works.
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Did you see the variable clock speeds mentioned on the specs?

Do you think PS5 will maintain those peak Hz at all times to stay at the 10.2 TF peak?

It's a weaker system, people need to get over it.
 
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Slayer-33 said:
Did you see the variable clock speeds mentioned on the specs?

Do you think PS5 will maintain those peak Hz at all times to stay at the 10.2 TF peak?

It's a weaker system, people need to get over it.
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I did. You didn't read the Switch part probably.

Mark Cerny : "both most of the time"

It's not that weaker like some trying to show
 
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-Troid- said:
I can't wait for them to show what the PS5 actually looks like. Then we can have the inevitable "It's the only system that will fit in my entertainment setup" threads.
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You jest but I bet that this will be a legitimate concern for many people and a negative to the Xbox design choice.
 
Let's assume PS5 will run its CPU @3.2-3.4GHz and GPU @2-2.1GHz most of the time - that's still no so far behind vs XBX, and still quite a jump compared to current generation, to say the least, but the question is - at what decibels? Because Cerny clearly said the APU will keep it clocks at peak or at least close to it no matter what the temperature is, because the boost technology in PS5 is designed solely around the power delivery, but the heat still plays a huge factor, otherwise it's all for nothing as the APU will be throttling. So we have constant, let's say 160W just for the CPU+GPU, somewhat constant frequencies, so the only variable you can control is the heat, which still at the end of the day has to be capped in order to everything work as designed. So that's leaving us with the only controllable component being the fan, and we all know what happened with PS4 Pro. And Cerny wasn't even shy of mentioning the issue at the presentation.
 
I like the idea of faster stuff. Though discounting that Xbox X Series is also hugely faster than some pretending that PS5's faster FASTER will magically change everything is weird.

Also there is a mistake that seems to be spreading. A game in a frame can only draw 1 what it is fed and 2 what it can display via GPu and CPU power as well as of course your physics and all that. You can't defeat that with a faster SSD. You can mitigate bottlenecks with an SSD though which both are doing.
Some people seem to think that in a like for like scenario that due to a faster speed on one it will magically have twice as many items on screen and calculated and all that. No it will not. Factually incorrect if you're thinking that.
I am not saying anyone here is thinking that. Haven't checked but I have seen it a GREAT deal in posts and again no.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
why do we care about what a couple of ND employees think? Are they going to be anything other than impressed with the hardware? Can't wait to see their first PS5 game in 2024.
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World class developers at one of the world's top 3 developer studios have more worthwhile opinions on PS5 specs than posters here who havent even read the full specs let alone used the hardware dont you think? 😄
 
ZywyPL said:
Let's assume PS5 will run its CPU @3.2-3.4GHz and GPU @2-2.1GHz most of the time - that's still no so far behind vs XBX, and still quite a jump compared to current generation, to say the least, but the question is - at what decibels? Because Cerny clearly said the APU will keep it clocks at peak or at least close to it no matter what the temperature is, because the boost technology in PS5 is designed solely around the power delivery, but the heat still plays a huge factor, otherwise it's all for nothing as the APU will be throttling. So we have constant, let's say 160W just for the CPU+GPU, somewhat constant frequencies, so the only variable you can control is the heat, which still at the end of the day has to be capped in order to everything work as designed. So that's leaving us with the only controllable component being the fan, and we all know what happened with PS4 Pro. And Cerny wasn't even shy of mentioning the issue at the presentation.
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Yep. People still ignoring the Switch part i've posted and maybe how it will work. Again :

However, there is a twist and it's something we've covered before, that we can now see play out in real-time - Nintendo's 'boost mode'. This amounts to optimisations in how certain games selectively overclock the CPU to improve loading times. For example, when you die in Mario Odyssey, the screen fades to black and the game loads you back to the last checkpoint. There is a fairly quick turnaround in Odyssey but this is faster thanks to boost mode. During loading, the CPU gets upclocked temporarily to 1785MHz - a 75 per cent increase on the stock clock. Meanwhile, the GPU actually drops all the way down to 76.8MHz - a tenth of its usual speed. Nintendo is balancing thermals by overclocking one component to the max, while downclocking another to the bare minimum.
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New Switch mod delivers real-time CPU, GPU and thermal monitoring - and the results are remarkable

Cerny also said 10% drop in power can be achieved by 2% drop in clock speed. That's not 10% drop in performance.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
why do we care about what a couple of ND employees think? Are they going to be anything other than impressed with the hardware? Can't wait to see their first PS5 game in 2024.
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ND employees or not that SSD and its subsystem is pretty friggin' dope.

And no, I don't think the PS5 is a better system overall or that this compensates for the inadequacies of other elements of the overall architecture.
 
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Bumblebeetuna said:
why do we care about what a couple of ND employees think? Are they going to be anything other than impressed with the hardware? Can't wait to see their first PS5 game in 2024.
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Entroyp said:
ND employees or not that SSD and its subsystem is pretty friggin' dope.

And no, I don't think the PS5 is a better system overall or that this compensates for the inadequacies of other elements of the overall architecture.
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Some of them are former and still praise the PS5 solution. There are some 3rd party dev tweet comments in link below :

MPx10zx.jpg


www.resetera.com

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

To be clear Xbox's is also faster than anything out there. But PS5's is 2x that even so playstations is crazy
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
SonyGAF is on such meltdowns these days, such a time to be alive lol.

All those Sony preaching insiders got beat the fuck out and now everyone has to face the truth. I don't even care at this point if XSX sells less than PS5 honestly, I just know that for the next 7 years it's going to be meltdown after meltdown in DF threads, and I'll be sure to bring the popcorn.

so good!
 
Ok,heres some thoughts after giving it a day....Its not that the PS5 is disappointing, it truly is a next gen leap

-with the new Ryzen CPU,
-Even at just 9.95-10.2 tflops because of variance its still almost a 7 times leap of power over the base ps4 with RDNA 2 benefits factored in
-Super fast SSD
- Twice the amount of RAM thats also faster as well.
-4K Blu ray player and 3d audio


In a vacuum its actually a very good system and IS a next generation leap. HOWEVER, the problem is that we're not in a vacuum, it is going to be compared to the Series X. Had sony come out earlier and announced these specs BEFORE 12 teraflops became the baseline they would be fine. 10.2 teraflops is a good number, 12 teraflops while awesome wouldnt have the same effect if 10 was already the baseline. But now sony is on the back foot in the power narrative, their silence is still deafening and comes across as either aloof or arrogant, messaging is a mess in regard to backwards compatibility.

What im saying is, the PS5 is a good system but the way sony is handling it makes it seem worse than it really is. SHOW us why the SSD is a "dream" fro developers, SHOW us that hey this thing can run games, third party games even at 60 fps. It can be a 10 second clip, it doesnt have to be this grand affair. Its not a PS3 or xbox one disaster, but it does put them on the back foot and sony seems to still be in autopilot mode. They seem to think that their base will stick with them no matter what, and if it had full BC i would say their right, but thats not clear as of now. We dont know prices but i will say IF this thing is 399 sony is going to be ok in spite of themselves.

We dont have the full picture yet either. I dont care how people spin or what they say, IF lockheart is real it is going to hold the series x back in some ways. A theoretical 4 tf gpu vs 12, less ram, and weaker cpu are going to hinder game design in some way. I dont care what some paid xbox dev shill says. Lockheart is going to be an anchor around the Xs neck in my opinion. That could be a boon to sony in some ways if their first party really takes Advantage of not having any restraints in that regard and perhaps sign a few 3rd party deals to show WHY a super fast SSD matters.

Im sure ill have more thoughts on this later.
 
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