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[AZ2002]

I'm looking forward to your posts when Sony reports their earnings in about 12 hours. Should be entertaining to say the least!

i am looking forward to it too .well they well not be great i think because of the earthquake tragedy and the exchange rate.i think i read somewhere that they were going to report positive operating income around half a billion dollar but will change it because of the earthquake.

 

[StevieP]

not entirley the playstation brand is a strong brand equal to Nintendo in my opinion and thats why Sony used it as a trojan horse.they knew the brand can take the hit and recover which happened as we see now.just imagine the PS3 first years $599 USD,primitive online,no exclusives even in japan,shitty advertising,tough competition,inferior multiplats.and still people bought it and return to the brand again.if the same has happened with MS or Nintendo i am sure that they wont turn it around.

The bolded part is the most important here. In your opinion. The facts say otherwise (and point out that the PS3 was extremely damaging for Sony) but you are always welcome to an opinion.

yup Nintendo focus on the casuals was smart but the problem with this segment is they dont buy software that much which is the main revenue for a gaming console.they buy Wii sport,dance casual games and thats it.they will drop you in a heart beat if something new catch their eyes (iphone,kinect).and thats why Nintendo said they will want the hardcore next time who buy lots of games for your system.

 

[AZ2002]

The bolded part is the most important here. In your opinion. The facts say otherwise (and point out that the PS3 was extremely damaging for Sony) but you are always welcome to an opinion.

interesting that confirms my theory about the Wii.but you have to put this into prespective the is from the NPD which covers the US only.Sony brand strongest hold is europe,japan and the rest of the world so this doesnt give the full picture.even though the fact that multiplats works better on 360 and with the better online may tipped this into its favour and i think that was Sony and Howard Stringer main failure as they forgot the online gaming infrastructure which is the biggest factor in my opinion (whats strange is they did it in the PS2 with socom TMBO),and the ease of development for 3rd parties.

 

[StevieP]

Multiple approximate number of consoles sold x tie ratio.
It does not "confirm" your theory, especially since the PS3 (what you call a 'hardcore' platform) and Wii (which only sells to 'casuals' in your posts) are within 0.6 of eachother.

 

[AZ2002]

Multiple approximate number of consoles sold x tie ratio.
It does not "confirm" your theory, especially since the PS3 (what you call a 'hardcore' platform) and Wii (which only sells to 'casuals' in your posts) are within 0.6 of eachother.

it is still not a clear indicator as this is taken from NPD and we know that the US is the PS3 weakest market and as multiplatform games work better on the 360 that may tips the harcore gamer to buy his games on it and as hardcore gamers usually has two or more system.we can use the 360 tie ratio number to compare as its a hardcore gamer console .

PS:thats enough for today i am beat

 

[Kapsama]

The bolded part is the most important here. In your opinion. The facts say otherwise (and point out that the PS3 was extremely damaging for Sony) but you are always welcome to an opinion.

do those numbers include pack in games like wii sports?

 

[RoboFu]

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just to watch the melt downs and the rise of the " well I like xbl more so..." argument to became even more prevalent.

 

[Satchel]

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just to watch the melt downs and the rise of the " well I like xbl more so..." argument to became even more prevalent.

But the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox, and it's not like that worked out great.

Gamecube and Xbox were more powerful than the PS2 as well. How did that work out?

Seriously, who legitmiately believes that the 'powah' of a console means anything outside of fanboy wars?

 

[RoboFu]

But the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox, and it's not like that worked out great.

Gamecube and Xbox were more powerful than the PS2 as well. How did that work out?

Seriously, who legitmiately believes that the 'powah' of a console means anything outside of fanboy wars?

umm that is kind of what I was talking about.

 

[jaypah]

umm that is kind of what I was talking about.

so you're saying you want to participate in fanboy system wars bullshit? Or at the least watch GAF become worse? Why?

 

[RoboFu]

so you're saying you want to participate in fanboy system wars bullshit? Or at the least watch GAF become worse? Why?

Why not?

 

[Satchel]

umm that is kind of what I was talking about.

Sorry, I didn't detect any sarcasm in your post.

The last few words gave me the impression you were serious.

 

[Proelite]

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just to watch the melt downs and the rise of the " well I like xbl more so..." argument to became even more prevalent.

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just so that when I buy one, I can immediately prop a proper boner and unload some lines of pearly white cum over the glossy black exterior of the console. Only if the console is sexy black.

I am also open to doing a bukkake on launch day with gaffers.

 

[lenovox1]

do those numbers include pack in games like wii sports?

NPD's the source, so I'm guessing no.

 

[jaypah]

Why not?

just seems like a waste to introduce even more bickering and arguments. But I don't really dig the whole fanboy thing so more power to you. I guess I understand that watching it can be pretty funny. I wouldn't mind PS4 being more powerful, or 720 for that matter, since I'll own all of them at some point.

 

[piSquaredOver6]

if ps3 had 512 main ram all dev bitching this gen would never have happened

 

[Thunder Monkey]

if ps3 had 512 main ram all dev bitching this gen would never have happened

Not all, just most of it. There was still Cell, and the old GPU to deal with.

 

[Metalmurphy]

if ps3 had 512 main ram all dev bitching this gen would never have happened

I think there's a bigger problem on the amount of RAM the OS uses then there is with the split ram.

 

[specialguy]

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just to watch the melt downs and the rise of the " well I like xbl more so..." argument to became even more prevalent.

It's nice to want things...

 

[KageMaru]

I hope the ps4 is way more powerful than the next xbox just to watch the melt downs and the rise of the " well I like xbl more so..." argument to became even more prevalent.

I know it won't happen, but a part of me wishes the Wii-U was more powerful than both the PS4 and 720. The meltdowns would be delicious. Would be great to see people in threads like this, with their heads in the clouds or up a corporation's ass, pull a 180.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's nice to want things...

Unless Sony goes for a "We just need to be good enough" approach too then yeah, this is actually pretty likely. WiiU and Fusion are going to look just a couple of years apart on the tech scale. PS4 could be that and an extra year of tech advancements.

edit: Could be that and an extra year from Fusion.

 

[StevieP]

It's nice to want things...

The irony is already delicious.

Unless Sony goes for a "We just need to be good enough" approach too then yeah, this is actually pretty likely. WiiU and Fusion are going to look just a couple of years apart on the tech scale. PS4 could be that and an extra year of tech advancements.

By the simple fact that it releases a year later, the PS4 *should* have better hardware than the other 2. With that said, however, one step into their latest financial earnings report may quash any sort of loss-leader approach.

 

[KageMaru]

Unless Sony goes for a "We just need to be good enough" approach too then yeah, this is actually pretty likely. WiiU and Fusion are going to look just a couple of years apart on the tech scale. PS4 could be that and an extra year of tech advancements.

edit: Could be that and an extra year from Fusion.

IMO it's highly unlikely that there would be a year gap between the 720 and PS4.

The only thing we know so far is that both are working on a SoC and both have DX11 GPUs.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The irony is already delicious.



By the simple fact that it releases a year later, the PS4 *should* have better hardware than the other 2. With that said, however, one step into their latest financial earnings report may quash any sort of loss-leader approach.

Once devs started spreading around what they were working with on the WiiU I think the final designs of Fusion was set "A tick above that."

Sony though I can still see them trying to match up with prior generational leap standards. They won't get close if only because the tech literally isn't small enough. But they should have two years of advancement "if" they are using a 2013 part as their basis, and then another year to significantly up their RAM amounts, and completely eclipse what both Nintendo and MS release.

I'm not saying it will be easy and cheap for them... but I see them being just bullheaded enough to do it. Well... under their old leadership at least.

 

[Punchpudding]

I really don't know what Sony would have to do to make me want a PS4 (more power is not it)... and I don't think I'm some sort of outlier either. Here's me:

• Owned xbox360 for first half of current gen, a few friends on Live, pretty happy
• Switched to PC mid way (new video card in my 6 year old PC and I was surprised how well it ran modern games)
• Buy <10 "full priced" games per year (get lots of games through indie bundles or Steam sales though)
• Actually interested in future of Kinect (potential apps and the Gunstringer)
• Not willing to spend too much on gaming

Now power doesn't really matter to me (mid/low PC graphics fine to me). The Sony exclusives (or any exclusive really) don't matter since the top 10 for my year are all multiplat. IMO Move doesn't have the kind of potential Kinect has. How could Sony get someone like me on their side?

 

[Razgreez]

^^

You're not interested in Sony exclusives. Exclusives being the only real reason to purchase a specific console (besides, the now diminishing, ease of use). So naturally there's nothing Sony can and will do. Would be silly to think a company would focus on the preferences of a single individual

 

[Punchpudding]

^^

You're not interested in Sony exclusives. Exclusives being the only real reason to purchase a specific console (besides, the now diminishing, ease of use). So naturally there's nothing Sony can and will do. Would be silly to think a company would focus on the preferences of a single individual

But looking at the top 10 games from 2011, they're almost all multiplatform (and some 3ds games) so I can't be alone... in fact I would think many people are in the same boat.

Shouldn't they be doing something to win new customers instead of going after the same PS3 fanbase again? Trying something new and getting more people interested in your product...Isn't this where innovation comes from?

 

[Proelite]

But looking at the top 10 games from 2011, they're almost all multiplatform (and some 3ds games) so I can't be alone... in fact I would think many people are in the same boat.

Shouldn't they be doing something to win new customers instead of going after the same PS3 fanbase again? Trying something new and getting more people interested in your product...Isn't this where innovation comes from?

4D and 4K.

 

[Razgreez]

But looking at the top 10 games from 2011, they're almost all multiplatform (and some 3ds games) so I can't be alone... in fact I would think many people are in the same boat.

Shouldn't they be doing something to win new customers instead of going after the same PS3 fanbase again? Trying something new and getting more people interested in your product...Isn't this where innovation comes from?

How many new, highly successful, IPs do MS have? How many do Nintendo have? Fact of the matter is the games that draw the crowd have almost all gone multi-platform and are all sequels with little to no innovation. Nobody's really innovating. Current kinect implementation is entirely clumsy. Current move implementation is barely existent and the Wii is flooded by shovelware.

That's not to say i, for example, haven't had fun this generation. I've just had less fun and seen many disappointments

 

[Shady859]

PS4 > Xbox 720 but will it matter? Isn't the PS3 "more powerful" than the 360 but who is always the lead platform for designers? It gets made for 360 then ported to PS3, games look and play better on the "inferior" system.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

PS4 > Xbox 720 but will it matter? Isn't the PS3 "more powerful" than the 360 but who is always the lead platform for designers? It gets made for 360 then ported to PS3, games look and play better on the "inferior" system.

Some are just pissed that MS is going for a half generational leap. I have no issue because this "half-generational leap" is still going to be using tech a generations removed from their last console.

 

[Shady859]

Some are just pissed that MS is going for a half generational leap. I have no issue because this "half-generational leap" is still going to be using tech a generations removed from their last console.

Which means that multi-platform games will once again be made for Xbox and ported to Playstation. Maybe M$ knows what they are doing more than people are willing to admit.

 

[Punchpudding]

How many new, highly successful, IPs do MS have? How many do Nintendo have? Fact of the matter is the games that draw the crowd have almost all gone multi-platform and are all sequels with little to no innovation. Nobody's really innovating. Current kinect implementation is entirely clumsy. Current move implementation is barely existent and the Wii is flooded by shovelware.

That's not to say i, for example, haven't had fun this generation. I've just had less fun and seen many disappointments

Well, I know opinions really differ on stuff like Kinect and Wii, but when I look at this current generation innovation was what pulled companies up. The wiimote came out of left field and gave Nintendo the top spot. Xbox had Live (social networking essentially) to establish their market and Kinect gave them a big boost later on. *Something* is causing people to buy certain consoles more than others. Sony needs something to differentiate themselves not just from their immediate competitors, but from 'old' technology.

As for games, I think it's hard for first party devs to innovate (instead of the tried and tested) when the health of the entire company depends on them. Console creators need to focus on making the best and most innovate platform to win devs over-- leave it to the devs to innovate on their own terms.

 

[Nizz]

IMO it's highly unlikely that there would be a year gap between the 720 and PS4.

The only thing we know so far is that both are working on a SoC and both have DX11 GPUs.

There better not be! I really don't want to have to wait a year for a PS4. Ideally for me, both consoles would be out weeks within each other. Even better would be for Sony to release a bit earlier but there's a fat chance in hell that'll happen.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Which means that multi-platform games will once again be made for Xbox and ported to Playstation. Maybe M$ knows what they are doing more than people are willing to admit.

You won't find me disagreeing.

 

[jrDev]

do those numbers include pack in games like wii sports?

As a side note: Wii Sports is not a pack in anymore, it's sold separately.

 

[KageMaru]

PS4 > Xbox 720 but will it matter? Isn't the PS3 "more powerful" than the 360 but who is always the lead platform for designers? It gets made for 360 then ported to PS3, games look and play better on the "inferior" system.

People who make such claims should be promptly ignored. Anyone that generalizes and lumps "power" in such a broad way has no idea what they are talking about.

Some are just pissed that MS is going for a half generational leap. I have no issue because this "half-generational leap" is still going to be using tech a generations removed from their last console.

We have no idea what type of leap any company is making.

 

[Death Dealer]

Some are just pissed that MS is going for a half generational leap.

Source ?

The IGN overclocked Wii-U rumor is BS.

But I think you believed it, or believe it enough to defend it.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

We have no idea what type of leap any company is making.

That's not entirely accurate.

We know what era of tech was used as the basis of early SDK's for two of them. That doesn't give us anything concrete but it gives us an idea of what kind of power they are shooting for.

It wouldn't take Sony too much to at least have a much more powerful GPU than either. If they are serious about launching in 2014 that will also give them the shot at having substantially more RAM than either. If MS is launching fall 2013 or earlier that limits them on RAM to right around the area of the WiiU. Especially if they continue using unfied. Unless they go for a large unified pool of DDR3. But that would fly in the face of the way consoles have always been designed. Focusing more on bandwidth heavy expensive in comparison RAM than massive quantities of slow.

Source ?

The IGN overclocked Wii-U rumor is BS.

But I think you believed it, or believe it enough to defend it.

Coming from an early SDK I can see it.

Both the WiiU and 360 used very weak in comparison tech to approximate final power.

 

[KageMaru]

That's not entirely accurate.

We know what era of tech was used as the basis of early SDK's for two of them. That doesn't give us anything concrete but it gives us an idea of what kind of power they are shooting for.

It wouldn't take Sony too much to at least have a much more powerful GPU than either. If they are serious about launching in 2014 that will also give them the shot at having substantially more RAM than either. If MS is launching fall 2013 or earlier that limits them on RAM to right around the area of the WiiU. Especially if they continue using unfied. Unless they go for a large unified pool of DDR3. But that would fly in the face of the way consoles have always been designed. Focusing more on bandwidth heavy expensive in comparison RAM than massive quantities of slow.

Source, that isn't a rumor, for the SDK specifications?

Also I don't buy Sony launching in 2014 for one second. Both MS and Sony will be launching in 2013, especially with Sony openly admitting they don't want to be late again.

 

[dragonelite]

Source, that isn't a rumor, for the SDK specifications?

Also I don't buy Sony launching in 2014 for one second. Both MS and Sony will be launching in 2013, especially with Sony openly admitting they don't want to be late again.

After the financial report i dont even think sony can be late so hopefully this E3 we get all the platforms reveal.

So hope that next xbox and playstation gpu are atleast 8 times this gen . That should give devs the performance for 1080p@60 fps plus some extra performance per pixel or go 1080p@30fps and have like double the performance per pixel this gen.

 

[Marco1]

All MS need is a crysis ultra settings 1080p 60FPS reveal with the tagline, nobody else can do it but now we can!

 

[Busty]

All MS need is a crysis ultra settings 1080p 60FPS reveal with the tagline, nobody else can't do it but now we can!

Do people really give a fuck about 'ultra level Crysis' to make it the back bone of a console reveal?

 

[Marco1]

Do people really give a fuck about 'ultra level Crysis' to make it the back bone of a console reveal?

I should learn how to post comments that read like the joke they're meant to be.

 

[Busty]

I should learn how to post comments that read like the joke they're meant to be.

Ahhhhh.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Source, that isn't a rumor, for the SDK specifications?

Also I don't buy Sony launching in 2014 for one second. Both MS and Sony will be launching in 2013, especially with Sony openly admitting they don't want to be late again.

All we have for any of them is rumor and insider leaks.

That has given us the barometer for the WiiU. IGN hasn't reported on finalized hardware for Fusion, but rumored specifications based on early developer SDK's. That in itself gives us the base power of the platform. The lowest possible point. We don't yet have insider leaks for Fusion. But there's nothing in it to give me pause and question it.

Early 360 SDK's weren't exactly as powerful as the final system either.

 

[KageMaru]

After the financial report i dont even think sony can be late so hopefully this E3 we get all the platforms reveal.

So hope that next xbox and playstation gpu are atleast 8 times this gen . That should give devs the performance for 1080p@60 fps plus some extra performance per pixel or go 1080p@30fps and have like double the performance per pixel this gen.

I have the feeling you're going to be disappointed with both E3 this year and the power of next gen systems.

All we have for any of them is rumor and insider leaks.

That has given us the barometer for the WiiU. IGN hasn't reported on finalized hardware for Fusion, but rumored specifications based on early developer SDK's. That in itself gives us the base power of the platform. The lowest possible point. We don't yet have insider leaks for Fusion. But there's nothing in it to give me pause and question it.

Early 360 SDK's weren't exactly as powerful as the final system either.

So basically we don't know anything regarding the PS4 or 720...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I have the feeling you're going to be disappointed with both E3 this year and the power of next gen systems.



So basically we don't know anything regarding the PS4 or 720...

We know the baseline of what devs are being asked to produce for in the case of Fusion.

Absolutely nothing about the PS4.

 

[Satchel]

I think there's a bigger problem on the amount of RAM the OS uses then there is with the split ram.

This is someting Sony and MS definitely need to look at.

1-2GB dedicated to the OS, on top of whatever they use for the system.

Surely they could get away with cheap DDR2 or 3 for the OS?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

This is someting Sony and MS definitely need to look at.

1-2GB dedicated to the OS, on top of whatever they use for the system.

Surely they could get away with cheap DDR2 or 3 for the OS?

Well... not exactly.

I'd say the best way would be to remove severe OS bloat more than your scenario. Just seems to be an odd way to go under the RAM limits as they are. I don't think either MS and Sony if they launch in late 2013 are seriously thinking about anything more than 2 gigs of quick RAM. RAM density issues would make incorporating more problematic. Feasible, but very costly.

I doubt devs would be too happy with 1 gig of GDDR5, and two gigs of DDR3 (mainly used for the OS at that). Games would have to be designed primarily under the constraints of the 1 gig. Splits pools always end up being problematic in the end. It hampered more than a few PS3 games because of it.