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like the tools okWhen coded so? Yes:
RedGamingTech Xbox Tools and Mesh shaders matter
- Thread starter Lort
- Start date
The Hamburglar
Banned
Says the clown who's 99% of his posts consist of ps5 FUD - if this thread is about Xbox tools you've posted an awful a lot about ps5 unreal 5 demo.
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I posted the reality the demo was actually running on a laptop and it's idiotic to think that one of the creators of the demo is confusing the demo with a video.
and in any case we could close that useless speech here. the thread is about the Xbox
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megreotsugua
Banned
Unreal Engine 5 can run on a smartphone. Tim Sweeney already said so. Then of course it will also run on a xsex.
pasterpl
Member
this tweet sums it up,
The Nanite and Lumen tech powering it will be fully supported on both PS5 and Xbox Series X and will be awesome on both.
scaled down to current gen platforms and probably pc with 10xx cards
thanks bo, you basically provided a proof that your statements are full of shit
what I would like to know is if ue5 will move to support all rdna2 features in future, how ps5 will perform with Xbox series being the only consoles with full hardware support for all rdna2 features
Bo_Hazem
Banned
They just don't want to accept that it'll scale down. We all know it'll work but with lower quality assets.
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megreotsugua
Banned
Chessmate
Banned
A thread about the Xbox tools & mesh shaders ends up being a Sony fanboys fest talking about the Sony SSD, Tim Sweeney and the Epic demo.
It's just a random guy with too much time, who googles "ps5 best console" and copy/pastes the findings here.
longdi
Banned
imo the point we are trying to say is, you are unlikely to need ps5 levels of i/o numbers(on paper) to achieve that level of fidelity shown in the demo.
just like sony did not bet HZDFW on ps5 only, it's even more unlikely Tim will bet the farm for his next big engine, using ps5 i/o numbers as base. or at least if ps5 i/o is as fast as it looks beyond the rest of the field.
just like sony did not bet HZDFW on ps5 only, it's even more unlikely Tim will bet the farm for his next big engine, using ps5 i/o numbers as base. or at least if ps5 i/o is as fast as it looks beyond the rest of the field.
Snake29
Banned
We already know why MS has gone this route since every game needs to be released on PC from day one. It doesn't help if you go full custom on XSX and then use all the standard RDNA2 videocard features for the PC.
Full RDNA2 says nothing of course. It only makes it easier for MS to develop for 2 platforms. It doesn't directly say it's better than what the competition has.
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lol
they act like if the ssd can throw whatever at the gpu and the gpu can crunch everything like if not even a factor in rendering things.. Just fantasyland and pr
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the engineer didnt said scaled down version. Talked about the same exact demo on a laptop with a 2080 and a basic sam870 ssd. running with 10fps m more than on ps5. But I'm sure he was talking about a video running 10 fps more than the demo running on a ps5 /s embarassingBo_Hazem don't forget UE5 can scale down. Of course xsex and the laptop can run a scaled down version of the demo.
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surely the thread is not about the ps5 but I'm sure everyone will be interested in talking about the ps5 ssd
he doesn't have an idea of what he is talking about. he is just filling the thread with non-thread-related nonsense. let him vent
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azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Exactly he was talking about other things, of course the demo can run on a laptop but not at this quality.
And that's exactly what he said by the way with a laptop equipped with a ssd and a 2080 you can get 1080p and run it well since their engine can cull triangles based on resolution.
where you did read about the quality? i never did. can you link where he said a lower quality? or is it a guess? because an engineer who makes a performance comparison on fps by comparing two demos running at different quality seems misleading especially if done by those who actually have worked on the demo itself.
Elog
Member
You do not get it. I have used this example before to make a point about graphics.
Why does Avatar (the movie) rendered in HD (1080p) look infinitely better than any game ever produced? Main points:
1) Light is fully RT with basically no exceptions. We are still far away from doing this with such complex light sources such as in Avatar during the jungle night scenes.
2) Complex geometry - the screen is filled with complex geometry which would kill any modern GPU + engine combination due to the amount of vertices. That is why improved geometry handling is a key priority in for example UE5 or what you can do with the geometry engine in the PS5. If you look carefully at the environments in Demon's Souls I dare you to find a game with the same amount of vertices on the screen - it is highest I have seen to date. It will be very interesting to see how far this can be pushed with Nanite.
3) The amount and resolution of textures. In Avatar the movie a single model of an animal/character contains around 100 textures that are utilised at 8K. With some basic assumptions about information in the textures, each texture represents roughly 50 MB of uncompressed data@4K or in other words each model represents 5GB of uncompressed texture data in VRAM @ 4K - any modern system would run out of VRAM in no time in trying to replicate that.
The SSD and I/O helps with 3) - please note that increasing the amount and resolution of textures does not put almost any strain on the GPU but more or less only on I/O functionality while giving insane results in terms of visual quality. We have all seen the youtube videos using high-resolution textures with UE4 and how insanely good it looks.
So when you say that I/O is not really important for texture loading and think it will strain the GPU, you have clearly absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
Personally, I think people will be stunned when the first title comes out that fully utilises the upgraded I/O systems in the new consoles. And here the PS5 has a very clear advantage. If Sony is smart, they do this with the remaster of TLoU2 even though it requires a complete rewrite of the engine - they most likely have all the assets at the right quality already and the result should be spectacular.
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i never said that better i / o will not bring benefits. It is as clear as sunlight. But even this, although very important, must at the end of the chain focus everything on the gpu. Both consoles have customizations regarding the i / o ps5 much more in this regard focusing less on the gpu the XsX to the opposite more towards the gpu
YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
Dang. Sounds like the Series X will run this easily then. Consider me educated.The "Lumen in the Land of Nanite" demo ran at approximately 1440p and 30fps, but apparently, the PS5 could easily render most of it at 60fps. As we already learned, Nanite is not particularly taxing on hardware – the entire GPU rendering cost of the demo was about 4.5ms, which is about 1/4 the timeframe budget at 30fps or 1/8 at 60fps. The demo also only used a rather paltry 768MB of RAM. Despite this, the demo is pushing massive numbers of polygons – a single one of the statues seen in the demo contains 33m polygons, with most of what looks like traditional textures being actual 3D geometry made up of tiny pixel-sized polygons. The statues alone in the scene below contain 16 billion polygons.
Unreal Engine 5 Nanite Tech Can Easily Render a Million High-Poly Objects at 60fps on PS5
Just how many thousands of objects and billions of polygons was that Unreal Engine 5 demo pushing? New details on Epic's next-gen tech!wccftech.com
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Since reddit seems to be a great source here it is .
By the way you still haven't answered why in that presentation there a media player and playstation button prompts since now you are saying it always ran on a laptop which is totally and utterly false like most of what you say.
proof of you saying that :
the engineer interview isn't related to the video did you want to see a video created for Sony ps5 new console running better on PC officially shown by the company that created the video? he is talking about what he know about the demo. they could be tests they did months before who knows. And he said that the demo can run on a PC with a normal ssd and 2080 at 10fps more than the ps5.
why a freaking video should be recorded at 40 fps lol when the demo on ps5 ran at 30. Let's stop with this antics, it doesn't make sense. but ... if you prefer you can believe Sweeney lol
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I know, you are making a straw-man and since you are making the argument up you might as well answer and provide that proof yourself to yourself. Nobody has argued UE5 has been designed nor that demo not to be able to run on Xbox at all.
I really really really wonder why Sweeney, so inclined to conment on Twitter, doesn't let the demo release on PC as always happens for all UE tech demos. By doing so he would have confirmed what he said and above all confirmed the importance of the I/O. And so we would finally see the high end PCs underperform compared to the Ps5. But I don't think that will ever happen. Who knows why ... / s
ps. we know exactly why
ps. we know exactly why
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Exactly.
The PS5 die shot thread was something. I just wanna know is it ok to like him again now.... Is he credible now?
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
And by the way that's the exact opposite of what nanite is it is he necessity of having into ram just what geometry is shown on screen Which is possible thanks to huge ssd speed.Since now GPU's are powerful enough to handle 1 or 2 pixel filed with a triangle.
So now even the chinese engineers and Sweeney are lying ? and the media player and Ps button prompt are to be ignored?
You do realise that there is the translation stating exactly that reducing the resolution reduce the need of a beefy SSD or maybe you didn't understand the benefits of nanite and how it handles geometry.
Elog
Member
I am sure you have seen what high resolution textures is doing but any search on UE4 and Quixel will show some great results. On old hardware you need to limit the environment though and run with a GPU with plenty of VRAM (such as a 2080ti with 11GB etc). Below you see a rocky landscape (i.e. you limit the texture pool) with high definition textures. I/O plus SSD to exapand the total amount of VRAM that can be used across a 'level' in a game will be king going forward. For those that have not seen:
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When coded so? Yes:
You know this, Miles, Astro, Sack Boy dont count for massive reasons.
Playing Astro the other day and the level loading in game is so fast all the levels look seamless, like one giant level.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Great times ahead of us!
Garani
Member
I really really really wonder why Sweeney, so inclined to conment on Twitter, doesn't let the demo release on PC as always happens for all UE tech demos. By doing so he would have confirmed what he said and above all confirmed the importance of the I/O. And so we would finally see the high end PCs underperform compared to the Ps5. But I don't think that will ever happen. Who knows why ... / s
ps. we know exactly why
Are you done console warring? You have been repeating yourself in at least 3 threads, the same shit over and over.
You don't like the PS5? Great for you.
You like the XSX? Great for you.
Just quit spreading old FUD and making up cospirative theories that aren't there.
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Elog
Member
You know - why do you think Nvidia with the 30xx range of cards started to work so much with I/O? Because they know this is coming but it is harder on the PC side of things unless you put an SSD on the graphics card itself. Even with an SSD in the M2 slot the driver overhead and control over the PCE bus is deeply problematic as well as the general lack of dedicated decompression hardware.I really really really wonder why Sweeney, so inclined to conment on Twitter, doesn't let the demo release on PC as always happens for all UE tech demos. By doing so he would have confirmed what he said and above all confirmed the importance of the I/O. And so we would finally see the high end PCs underperform compared to the Ps5. But I don't think that will ever happen. Who knows why ... / s
ps. we know exactly why
Unless games developers intentionally gimp their games, the XSX and PS5 versions of games will look a lot better once these functionalities are bread and butter in engines (i.e. that texture handling is done dynamically - on-demand - during a level). The XSX and the PS5 will be on a level on their own here for some time - and the PS5 should be a bit ahead of the XSX in top of that - but the big difference should be next-gen consoles vs PC (the master race - they will take this really well...).
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i didn't spread anything you guys doing it . Before it was rdna3 now it's the demo. this is a thread about Xbox tools nobody gives a damn about the ps5 i / o at least not in here.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Yeah except spreading that the ps5 wasn't running the demo,that a laptop could do better and that basically everyone at Epic lied or conspired.....Where is the FUD here?
Yeah all good, all true, but I wasn't talking about this.I was wondering why they didn't release the demo on PC so that the whole gaming world would open its eyes to how much the customizations made on the ps5 could revolutionize the world of computer graphics. Release it. i would love to see my 3070 and my 980 pro struggling in the mid 15fps with the demo.
hint: Unfortunately that will never happen
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when I said that the ps5 wasn't running the demo?? sure it was. The laptop with a sam 870 ssd and a 2080 too with 10 fps more than the ps5. engineer' words
And Honestly after all games we saw...this seem in line with the ps5 gpu perfomance. Or is it here that consoles will suddenly become 3080 with ue5?
Sweeney on twitter was bs 100% everyone know
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Leyasu
Banned
Of course nobody has said that it couldn't run on anything else.
But there are plenty of people and some even on this page still trying to say that the quality will be greatly reduced because of SSD speed. You have obviously seen those posts too since the UE5 unveiling.
I suppose that it is easy to claim anything, when the first UE5 game is still a couple of years away
Elog
Member
Ofc not - they will simply downgrade the environmental texture quality so your PC I/O can handle it. I am in the same boat with my 2080ti (11GB) and 970 EVO plus.
ah downgrade ) ok i really would seee it ! really and im asking myself why they didn't show the differences that proof sweeney words
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Here
And mistranslated enginer words, as I showed you, but beside moving the goalpost you have nothing.Have you noticed that no one else here was defending your position ?Even the most ardent Xbox fanboys don't seem to agree with you.
Do you think that you are fighting a noble uphill battle when in fact you are just fighting reality and truth?
Because to defend your point you had to call a conspiracy, you had to lie, to ignore a lot of evidences, call all the people much more qualified than you (Sweeney and the chinese enginers too) and all that because a mistranslated sentence was in line with your bias.
And now somehow the demo should run at 15 fps on a 3080 with a good ssd....That's not what anybody has said here, it just shows your complete misunderstanding of what is Unreal engine 5.For example you wouldn't need an ssd so good with more Vram, you wouldn't need it either with a more efficient GPU because of course there is way to compensate.
But again you will ignore 99% of evidence that goes against your bias and will gospel the shady chinese out of context mistranslated sentence that confirm your bias...Because you have nothing else.
So for once do what's best for you and stop talking.You will only lose to anyone here.
Concern
Member
Another derailed thread by the same individuals. How did this go from rgt talking about mesh shaders and Xbox to the ue5 demo?
Bill O'Rights
DGrayson
any idea?
Bill O'Rights
DGrayson
any idea?
Garani
Member
You keep on warring while the CEO of a public company, that has precise duties to the shareholders, has made plenty of statements.
Life is not about internet flames. Life is about precise duties and accountabilities. But you seem not to get it. A CEO could go to prison for false statements to the market.
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azertydu91
Hard to Kill
onesvenus
Member
That's possible.
It's also possible they downgrade the compute shader tasks to be able to run on the consoles.
Claiming the PS5 will run the best version of the engine seems disingenuous at best.
nobody cares about this fake battle on a demo. It doesn't mean people bought Sweeney's excuses on Twitter. And it doesn't even mean that I must begin to believe in donkeys that fly. The demo ran at the presentation on the ps5 at 30fps with that quality shown.Is fantastic! it's ok is really great. period. The engineer said the exact same demo (he never has mentioned the quality of the assets)could ran on a laptop with a Sam 870 ssd and a 2080 with 10 frames advantage over the ps5. He talked about resolution 1440 and 40fps he talked also about cpu usage during the demo. You will understand for yourself (unless you are a computer illiterate) that it is not perfomance info that you would give while playing a video. Especially if given by those who worked on the creation of the demo. I don't want to repeat it another 100 times. Everyone knows that the engineer was right. they know the interview was removed from online because it created problems for Epic in relation to Sony and they know that Sweeney on Twitter acted like someone as soon as he woke up who did not understand what he was talking about.
Of course you are free to believe what you want. But also ask yourself why for the first time an EU tech demo is not released on PC
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I have seen posts that say XSX would run UE5 like shit and I disagree with them, I have also seen posts that speculate that this engine may shine, detail wise (less for shading complexity and resolution once you bring lumen in the equation maybe), on PS5 and see the benefits of all the money and custom silicon they dedicated to it...
There are supporting statements from Epic directly and from Sony and it seems to reason that unless Sony cocked it up Nanite seems like something that can take advantage of the additional storage raw performance and low overhead high throughput SSD to GPU internal memory transfer speed.
Let me say it another way, revolutions in how geometry and textures are stored and transferred/processed are needed to fully saturate what the SSD's in these consoles can bring to the table (hence why they partnered up), what Sony has done is "just" to ensure the HW had low CPU overhead and high throughput and really went to town with the latter so they spent more on the former (and thus influenced how they should get GPU performance to fit their targets and support their overall vision...).
Different design goals, different visions, different results. I get the sense sometimes that the power PR pre launch and the XOX have conditioned the discourse not to be able to conceive scenarios where PS5 is not inferior but in an aspect maybe even superior in a way that is not trivial or meaningless.
most important sony studios will never user ue5. never ever . the demo was launch pr
oldergamer
Member
I recall people thinking it was maxing out the ssd bandwidth on ps5 but when epic actually released the numbers showing how much data bandwidth etc was used still below what XSX is capable of.
I dont understand why anyone would suggest that demo couldn't be accomplished on xbox. Sweeney said it would run fine on both and the scaling down comment was meant for older consoles.
Also how many first party sony titles are being developed on ps5? One possibly? How many on XSX? At least 10?
Epic doesnt ever develop features that cant be used on multiple systems. Any argument about what was shown is pretty foolish.
Back to the thread topic. I still think we will see larger jumps in improvement on xbox tools then will be see on ps5 tools going forward.
I cant speak for xbox one. However when xbox 360 came out ms managed to dramatically improve the tools over the first 2 to 3 years to the point where they gave access for certain features down to the metal.
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Leyasu
Banned
Good post and I don't disagree with anything that you just wrote.
But it should be noted that this is the same epic that stood up on stage during the ps3 unveiling and said that the machine was easy to work with. When the reality was far from that.
I am not calling anyone a liar, but I think that we really need to see real world results on multiple platforms before believing the hype. As many people like to say on here, the pre-release hype for the XsX has clouded people's minds. It would be foolish to do the same for UE5