kimcorecoba
Neo Member
Strange right?Xbox tools will improve over time, but PS5 tools will remain the same?
Strange right?Xbox tools will improve over time, but PS5 tools will remain the same?
Even if is, it's well known they're rebuilding their tools for universal game development between Windows and Xbox consoles, add to it that RDNA2 delayed Xbox till mid last year at least so optimizations had to be done on final specs even if they had the specs sheet for such features on paper or lower version already.That's the lie.
Are you ready to do a ban bet on this one?The full hardware support for RDNA2 features is going to give huge performance gains on Series consoles as people have been saying for months, playing the long game was the right call.
I don't care for these console wars but I doubt Microsoft stated the console was perfect. I know what you mean though. So I will go straight to the point.
In less than a year, Do you think the full capabilities of both consoles have been reached? How did you come to this conclusion sir? Do you have insider info that what we are seeing now is all we will see from the xbox? Even if you think dx12 is poor, is that enough to conclude this early in the consoles life? Maybe you have future info for us. I'm only here to learn but its getting really difficult seeing how both factions are behaving like children. I'm sure you can help me though.
Its like you haven't paid attention to anything said in the thread and just repeat the same argument that nobody is saying. What's up with that?Xbox tools will improve over time, but PS5 tools will remain the same?
How do I repeat something nobody is saying?Its like you haven't paid attention to anything said in the thread and just repeat the same argument that nobody is saying. What's up with that?
I hear ya. I put him on ignore as i got tired of his posts about. 5 months back. First time i ever used the feature.I think I speak for a lot people here that just read this forum. You're posting way too much. Everytime an interesting discussion/topic unfolds, you enter and dominate the thread with your boring fanboyism. Often every third post in a thread is yours. We heard you, you don't need to repeat everything 50 times.
She me where anyone said that ps5 tools wouldn't improve! Nobody has said that! Nobody even implied it, so why ask the question?How do I repeat something nobody is saying?
Go fight Tim Sweeney on Twitter and cut the crap.
She me where anyone said that ps5 tools wouldn't improve! Nobody has said that! Nobody even implied it, so why ask the question?
Well this is not implying it is saying it hasn't much room to improve.I am quoting myself, because I was too inside my head and I fucked up one part. It was delivered with reallz non/articulated fashion. Tools™ get better on both systems, however with performance stack, eg. what is behind those API calls, how efficient those calls are, Sony already has a perfect solution pretty much, so there isn't much room to improve.
I am basing my claims on working with PS4, I have no doubts that Sony is doing their great work again. I think it's not only here, where you can see that people are suprised with how well PS5 performs. I elaborated more on my position in next gen tech thread.Well this is not implying it is saying it hasn't much room to improve.
How do you take that sentence?
Listen it is easy you claim things without proving anything other than basing it on earsay.
Of course both console will improve over time,we all know that.
What we don't know is how much one will over the other, simply because nobody on this forum and on youtube knows how they stack against eachother.
Maybe the most important factor will be ease to develop for, or power or balance or removal of bottlenecks, hell we don't even know how the geometry engin engine stack against MS VRS solution or if the IO can mitigate sfs.
Right now all that we (and the includes you) do is speculate on what we hope or think each console will do but none of us know even remotely enough to mke informed guess about it.
And even the comparison thread are a joke because honestly the two consoles are really close enough to be called a draw no matter what each team think.
And for those that turned on RGT well that's understandable, he was proven wrong so he lost credibility that's not a problem.Do you guys remember how tidux was believe at the time ?Or Duskgolem or plenty of others that appears to be right and that time proved wrong?
So maybe it is time to stop those stupid war and play agmes and enjoy our consoles (and pcs) and play games,I sometime play gameboy games, sure they look ugly now but who cares just enjoy the games.
And for those who don't have a next gen console, then yeah keep warring, it'll will pass the time until you can get your hands on what you want.
So both of you calm down it won't make your console better to win a speculative argument, maybe you will feel like you won but what did you win ?
sort this through a tic tac toe it will honestly be better for us in this thread if you were posting circles and crosses instead of this pointless arguing.
Here have fun guys:
![]()
the winner will be considered the winner and would've totally won for all the time and eternity and even longer ...
Happy now?
You could totally be right or wrong and to be fair I don't know enough to tell, but you did said that the ps5 has not much room to improve.What was called out isn't that you are right or not, just that it has been said.I am basing my claims on working with PS4, I have no doubts that Sony is doing their great work again. I think it's not only here, where you can see that people are suprised with how well PS5 performs. I elaborated more on my position in next gen tech thread.
However as always I could be wrong.
It sounds maybe negative, but I thought it in positive light. I know I should be more articulate and still working on it.You could totally be right or wrong and to be fair I don't know enough to tell, but you did said that the ps5 has not much room to improve.What was called out isn't that you are right or not, just that it has been said.
On my part I do believe that these console will probably improve more than the previous gen (they have more custom and interesting tech than before) but I am honest enough to say that this is based on the little knowledge that I have about both which means negligible.
There is too much unknown fon anybody beside the engineer of each company to tell which will "win",I do think it will be a constant back and forth based on what advantages the game structure or the game director use of both consoles.
Oh ? I understand and it is great to have a more civil discussion about it.And even better without being offended (I feel like you weren't offended?).I quoted you simply to show thatIt sounds maybe negative, but I thought it in positive light. I know I should be more articulate and still working on it.
They only do talking, Sony has already FLEXED and no other HW has shown something as impressive. This is mesh shading in action on PS5, but a lot superior thanks to the total independency of the decompressor and the superior SSD to any in the market until PCIe 5.0:
They can only "dream" of reach this level, or buy a PS5.
lol...ok, let's look at this statement in more detail;
The Unreal Engine 5 tech demo would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony's made." - Tim Sweeney
he doesn't say that it will not be possible on xbox
he does say specifically that ps5 ssd solution is better than anything what you can buy for pc today (at the time of his statement) since then we know about directstorage and io approaches similar to ps5 that will be coming to pc space, Xbox has Xva
side note; $250mln
if we are going by pr statements maybe we should remind what AMD was saying about Xbox series x being a pinnacle of console gaming technology, also Statements like this; Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today.
the second one actually caused couple meltdowns on this forum
bonus; just realised that the blue team is doing this (selective understanding, and rich, over interpretation of any pr speak) all the time with all quotes from ms about Bethesda games.
Well this is not implying it is saying it hasn't much room to improve.
How do you take that sentence?
Listen it is easy you claim things without proving anything other than basing it on earsay.
Of course both console will improve over time,we all know that.
What we don't know is how much one will over the other, simply because nobody on this forum and on youtube knows how they stack against eachother.
Maybe the most important factor will be ease to develop for, or power or balance or removal of bottlenecks, hell we don't even know how the geometry engin engine stack against MS VRS solution or if the IO can mitigate sfs.
Right now all that we (and the includes you) do is speculate on what we hope or think each console will do but none of us know even remotely enough to mke informed guess about it.
And even the comparison thread are a joke because honestly the two consoles are really close enough to be called a draw no matter what each team think.
And for those that turned on RGT well that's understandable, he was proven wrong so he lost credibility that's not a problem.Do you guys remember how tidux was believe at the time ?Or Duskgolem or plenty of others that appears to be right and that time proved wrong?
So maybe it is time to stop those stupid war and play agmes and enjoy our consoles (and pcs) and play games,I sometime play gameboy games, sure they look ugly now but who cares just enjoy the games.
And for those who don't have a next gen console, then yeah keep warring, it'll will pass the time until you can get your hands on what you want.
So both of you calm down it won't make your console better to win a speculative argument, maybe you will feel like you won but what did you win ?
sort this through a tic tac toe it will honestly be better for us in this thread if you were posting circles and crosses instead of this pointless arguing.
Here have fun guys:
![]()
the winner will be considered the winner and would've totally won for all the time and eternity and even longer ...
Happy now?
I weren't offeded, I was explaining further. I mean tools from the devs side is probably going to be fine, however the performance stack, which is behind all those direct x libraries and that sort of thing is, let's say subject to change, I have connection to devs. I was working directly on Kingdom Come: Deliverance, thus my experience is directly with PS4 (pro), Xbox One (X) and let me tell you finalising the game, so it runs from PC on consoles, was quite a ride, it was before X1X was realeased, like 4 months or so, it was ridiculously buggy. And that was just 2 HW, on sony, basically everything was done in a way, that you didn't have to do much, it was clearly matured. But MS solution was such a mess, that. UGH. I was in QA, but in that part which don't look for gameplay bugs, but on performance and tons of stuff is done on Playstation in such a fascinatingly straight forward way and since i was the one looking at profiler, I know stuff which run like it was not even seen on PS4, but on Xbox it made CPU stall and yeah.Oh ? I understand and it is great to have a more civil discussion about it.And even better without being offended (I feel like you weren't offended?).I quoted you simply to show thatCaptain Toad wasn't crazy when he said that, he is clearly a pro sony, I don't think anybody would disagree but that wasn't baseless, you just happenned to be the first I found with a sentence that clearly referenced it.
But a lot of people here think that the "tools" will mature more on Xbox,which is possible, but what is weird to me is that I don't remember any dev saying the tools were behind beside Battagliawhom is not a dev.
Just like the api started from scratch on Xbox and not on playstation, I have no idea where this come from, I might have missed it.
But sometimes I wonder if we are too much in a bubble and start to believe some rumors as true when it was just wishful thinking (like infinity cache and RDNA1 (I think we probably reached RDNA -0.5 or something like that(have you even seen a triple parenthesis encapsulation? now you do)) etc...).
We need to play and get out of that bubble more.
I weren't offeded, I was explaining further. I mean tools from the devs side is probably going to be fine, however the performance stack, which is behind all those direct x libraries and that sort of thing is, let's say subject to change, I have connection to devs. I was working directly on Kingdom Come: Deliverance, thus my experience is directly with PS4 (pro), Xbox One (X) and let me tell you finalising the game, so it runs from PC on consoles, was quite a ride, it was before X1X was realeased, like 4 months or so, it was ridiculously buggy. And that was just 2 HW, on sony, basically everything was done in a way, that you didn't have to do much, it was clearly matured. But MS solution was such a mess, that. UGH. I was in QA, but in that part which don't look for gameplay bugs, but on performance and tons of stuff is done on Playstation in such a fascinatingly straight forward way and since i was the one looking at profiler, I know stuff which run like it was not even seen on PS4, but on Xbox it made CPU stall and yeah.
This could changed with PS5, but I doubt it, Sony licence the IPs, build a chip, get some portion of a Bios from AMD, write their own drivers and that's it. MS relaying more on 3rd party to supply their solution, which never going to be like tightly controlled environment.
PC is kind of smashing both of them right now, due to available memory without the need to stream data continuosly at high speeds. Sure I was talking about compute, I don't know much about data streaming, we are talking about compute/raster/RT or....maybe just me?You're forgetting that even 1st party didn't even start using data streaming and eliminating LOD's. Not to mention Geometry Engines that they're learning its perks. We are just too early on for PS5 and has much higher room for improvements than XSX.
It'll be so extremely devastating for Xbox when nVidia starts its own decompression of up to 14GB/s, if they are true enough, same with AMD. They'll use GPU teraflops to compensate for that, Xbox can't spare it's GPU while the process on PS5 is totally independent by the near threadripper power of 11-12 cores I/O power making it hover around 17-22GB/s.
Well, PC will totally smash both PS5 and XSX when it reaches PCIe 5.0, but only PS5 would still keep up.
You're forgetting that even 1st party didn't even start using data streaming and eliminating LOD's. Not to mention Geometry Engines that they're learning its perks. We are just too early on for PS5 and has much higher room for improvements than XSX.
It'll be so extremely devastating for Xbox when nVidia starts its own decompression of up to 14GB/s, if they are true enough, same with AMD. They'll use GPU teraflops to compensate for that, Xbox can't spare its GPU while the process on PS5 is totally independent by the near threadripper power of 11-12 cores I/O processing power making it hover around 17-22GB/s.
Well, PC will totally smash both PS5 and XSX when it reaches PCIe 5.0, but only PS5 would still keep up.
If you have anything solid that proves that xbox can do this exact thing then show it. So you think MS can do it and they just don't want to? Just suck it up as it is, it's reality and it's usually bitter when it's not in your favor.
So spare us your BS analysis, the only PR here is from MS side. When you show real-time gameplay then you've passed the PR phase and you are standing on a solid ground.
You know what's BS? Hellblade 2 "in-engine" demo, while it's prerendered at 24fps. Also the Forza 24fps prerendered trailer.
Look its not much in it we all know that, this bottleneck you speak of is something both consoles have. It's not like one has bottlenecks and the other doesn't, this is the nature of gaming hardware. The problem I have is certain posters trying to insinuate that the dev tools being behind is somehow not true. Multiple sources have mentioned this as being correct.Well, we still don't know how much "more" powerful. It looks like not all parts are more powerful and that can bottleneck the console.
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Samsung has launched its 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD that offers a maximum read speed of 7,000 MB/s (1 TB SKU). This means that PC gamers can fit a speedy solid state drive into their machines that challenges the much-heralded superfast SSD that the PS5 will be bringing with it, at least in...www.notebookcheck.net
See, that's why you shouldn't participate in these discussions. You're a totally biased fanboy who's not interested in any form of understanding of the technology of the consoles.
No one cares about your "opinion", everybody knows perfectly well you're just a console warrior. So why do you spend day and night discussing this stuff? Sadly, you should just be banned.
Again, speaking for the silent majority who want to learn sth about the next gen consoles and who are fed up with your repetitive, predictable posts. Just go and take a nap.
PC is kind of smashing both of them right now, due to available memory without the need to stream data continuosly at high speeds. Sure I was talking about compute, I don't know much about data streaming, we are talking about compute/raster/RT or....maybe just me?
I know that "performance" is this broad term. Sorry I might as well be inside my head and expect people to be on the same wave.
Also it would be best for anyone to start using streaming with GPU, we need to move forward
Also I would like to land job now, when I deal with a lot of shit, which I had in my life before, but Warhorse is on halt, whole studio shutdown and well, it's not good, we are the worst country on planet when it comes to Covid and I have to be careful, you cannot really learn technology from outside.
Xbox tools will improve over time, but PS5 tools will remain the same?
Not achievable on Xbox. The thing happening is that it was "choking" the PS5's full 16GB RAM, while having 0.7GB pool for streaming. It was an extreme stress test, with RAW 8K, Hollywood-level assets, uncompressed. It might've used the whole available 667GB out of 825GB total. It was actually an unrealistic test to see how far it can go, and that was before Oodle Texture compression which adds another layer of speed/efficiency. But it was so light on the GPU and using as much as Fortnite:
Could the Xbox achieve an overall similar looking demo? Probably, but not that crazy demo itself as you would need to massively downgrade everything and scale down.
If Microsoft can show something as impressive they would've done it way back, or just worked with their friends at Epic Games to make similar demo as they use their engine for many of their games like Gears.
Your totally blinkers if you think Xbox can't run that demo. They have NOT said at any point the demo would not run the same on XboxI can post memes if that would help this thread, but the OP has posted a shitty post that needs to be addressed with solid sources. Yes, serious discussions are boring, but they enlighten as well.
In any case, I'm sorry for making you feel so, but my posts are direct and meant to be that way instead of attacking people, I'm debating ideas and thoughts.
Have you even heard of the word "scalability"? Yes it'll work even on smartphones, but that's the keyword. If you think Tim is biased/liar, then Phil Spencer said native 4K@60fps is the standard on XSX and this will be the biggest launch in Xbox history in terms of games. If Microsoft can show something as impressive they would've done it way back, or just worked with their friends at Epic Games to make similar demo as they use their engine for many of their games like Gears.
Your totally blinkers if you think Xbox can't run that demo. They have NOT said at any point the demo would not run the same on Xbox
Ok provide factual evidence to show that demo cannot run the same on Xbox, quotes off the developers will do
Im sorry did all you ... "im not upset any i dont care" people come to the wrong thread?
i love how people are attacking ME its hilarious lol. Threatening to ban me for literally posting a video and summarizing it accurately. There sure is a massive bid to shut down freedom of speech here even when the person saying it is RedTechGaming who has been quoted for thousands of pages here.
RedTechGaming SAID that the xbox dev kit will improve significantly more in a short time in comparison to sony. He even shows a graph providing evidence .. Dont get upset at me or other posters here attack him if your so desperate ?
RedTechGaming SAID that only xbox has primitive shaders and these help in allocation of takes for general GPU compute. He also says that geometry shaders are simpler to use and very effective for what Sony is using them for, that games are using them now and no game uses primitive shaders yet.
He says he has talked to several developers familiar with the situation and confirms this has all come to light recently and more detail is forth coming.
There are so many sonyflakes here desperate on creating their own 3d echochamber of self congratulation that even news they dont want becomes justification for a prideful parade of righteousness.
Ok provide factual evidence to show that demo cannot run the same on Xbox, quotes off the developers will do
"World's most powerfulIsnt this kinda known as of this point?
SX has the more advanced hardware features, such as mesh shaders, sfs, ML and rdna2 rops etc etc.
Ps5 is simply just a more matured development platform from the go, and delivering the expected results.
People likes to meme and joke about the tools and 'another one' but, anyone distanced from the fanboyism, should not see it as a surprise.![]()
Tim Sweeney, the head and founder of Epic Games, is a liar according to the green team. So I'm interested in running in circles with you.
Don't panic, it'll scale down according to the HW
And no, it's not the same elsewhere:
If legit sources "hurt" anyone's feeling here, please close the thread and read something else.
Tim Sweeney, the head and founder of Epic Games, is a liar according to the green team. So I'm interested in running in circles with you.
Don't panic, it'll scale down according to the HW
And no, it's not the same elsewhere:
If legit sources "hurt" anyone's feeling here, please close the thread and read something else.
You're forgetting that even 1st party didn't even start using data streaming and eliminating LOD's. Not to mention Geometry Engines that they're learning its perks. We are just too early on for PS5 and has much higher room for improvements than XSX.
It'll be so extremely devastating for Xbox when nVidia starts its own decompression of up to 14GB/s, if they are true enough, same with AMD. They'll use GPU teraflops to compensate for that, Xbox can't spare its GPU while the process on PS5 is totally independent by the near threadripper power of 11-12 cores I/O processing power making it hover around 17-22GB/s.
Well, PC will totally smash both PS5 and XSX when it reaches PCIe 5.0, but only PS5 would still keep up.
It still works just not as well as the PS5.M Microsoftshould really tell its developers to focus on performance and not resolution.Why are they releasing a brand new console without working software or dev kits ready?
Tim Sweeney, the head and founder of Epic Games, is a liar according to the green team. So I'm interested in running in circles with you.
Don't panic, it'll scale down according to the HW
And no, it's not the same elsewhere:
If legit sources "hurt" anyone's feeling here, please close the thread and read something else.
Noticed how you never timestamped anything from the video but you come back to talk about people are being salty.Posts video from RedTechgaming, sony fanboys overrun thread spaming with unrelated info.
Never change bo_hazem![]()
They never said it could run the demo if its at a reduced settings.Epic China unintentionally leaked the demo runs on a SATA ssd and laptop rtx2070(iirc).
Tim is a shrewd business man, his next engine will run great on base line SSD system. Do not ignore the fact, going from HDD to SATA SSD is a huge leap already.
What he referred in those tweets are at the point of time when they were made, when the baseline is still HDD and DX12u is not out yet.
ps5 and SX have various i/o assist hw, sounds mysteriously cool, but because they are cost limited and needed to be designed with such fixed function assistors.
PC Gpu wont have that much of cost limitations.
Remember when people gushed about transitioning 2worlds like The Medium? The game runs perfectly fine on HDD even so.
Cbf? Watch the video and make up your own mind .. your salty "pretend its not happening" summary shows your not worth arguing with.Noticed how you never timestamped anything from the video but you come back to talk about people are being salty.
Why don't you time stamp the video to back up what you're saying.
They never said it could run the demo if its at a reduced settings.
PS5 was pushing 8K textures.
I watched the video several times to know you're lying.Cbf? Watch the video and make up your own mind .. your salty "pretend its not happening" summary shows your not worth arguing with.
People can make up their own minds .. i noticed at least 95% of people did not accuse me of lying .. i really dont care what you think.. but have no problem with you saying whatever you want.
I watched the video several times to know you're lying.
I even provided exact time stamps.
Can you do even 1 or 2? You can't because you lied and made it up by twisting his words. You can't accuse people of being salty when you're failing to back up your argument with facts.. "
That's not what you said. You said it will improve significantly in comparison to the PS5. He NEVER said it.You say " He doesn't say it will improve significantly"... yet the first words of the video are "over the next year we are going to see an enormously uptick in performance for xbox series titles"
Im done i cant be bothered arguing with someone like you.
Have a great day..
And the second line is "this video is about why that is".That's not what you said. You said it will improve significantly in comparison to the PS5. He NEVER said it.
The quote you're talking about was in reference to mesh shader improvements.
Don't get upset because people are calling out your lies.
And the second line is "this video is about why that is".
...and yet you have to #meto the whole video to claim its talking about playstation.
Whatever dude.
Over the next year we're going to see a tremendous uptick in performance for the Xbox Series titles as game developers are unable to unleash what this system is truly capable of and in this video, we're going to be detailing exactly why that is.