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Remember R E A C H |OT2|

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C

chapel

Banned
Cocopjojo said:
Nail down for me precisely what it is about The Cage that makes it not a "real" map.

Counting Forgeworld as one map - Paradiso, Hemorrhage, Asylum, Pinnacle, The Cage - is ridiculous. What is it about Asylum that makes it not a "real" map? What is it about Pinnacle that makes it not a "real" map? I'm interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Here is something really telling. In the beta everyone hated swordbase. I would rather play swordbase than the cage, or pinnacle. Asylum is okay, but the framerate issues on it suck. Thankfully they put the kill zones on top, but didn't put one on top of the main base, where people can still camp, just not as easily.

Pinnacle is another issue, the spawns are broken when you consider weapon layout, why does blue get automatic rockets? Who thought that was smart? Sure red gets big tower, but there isn't a comparable power weapon in sight. In fact blue gets faster access to shotgun as well.
 
D

Devolution

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Sure I love my crazy games of Halo, but I also love the aspect of the game thats about clever movement and precision play.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I think some competitive playlists/gametypes should drop 'em, especially AL.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
Not sure why this map bitching is turning up again. Should have known what to expect the second they revealed all the maps. The bad thing is that they'll have to split up any map packs for each mode. Have to have a map for Invasion and BTB, Firefight, Small maps, Forge stuff etc... It will dilute things because where as most people will want Invasion/BTB and small maps they'll try to focus on everything.
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
Cocopjojo said:
So what is it about The Cage that makes it not a "real" map?


Counting Forgeworld as one map - Paradiso, Hemorrhage, Asylum, Pinnacle, The Cage - is ridiculous. What is it about Asylum that makes it not a "real" map? What is it about Pinnacle that makes it not a "real" map? I'm interested to hear.
Click to expand...
Just to make things clear, I do not mean to come off as rude or a hater... I enjoy the game and this is my idea of constructive criticism. I apologize if others take it the wrong way.

The Cage, Paradiso (lol), Asylum, Pinnacle are all made in FORGE!

I don't know the amount of resources/time spent on making a real map but I am quite sure that it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100x more work (total guess) then it takes to whip up something in Forge.

Asylum and Pinnacle are both remakes and so churning those two out would take no time at all with Fancy Forge.

Paradiso is (again no offense) god awful... But that isn't reason enough to not include it as a map...

The summed up reason I do not count Forge maps the same as I do real maps is because it just feels cheap.

Don't ship a game with a bunch of maps that the community could make in a couple of days, and count them as part of the map count. Brian has even said that Bungie would NEVER sell Forge Maps as DLC, he admits that selling something that anyone can make wouldn't be reasonable. So why is it OK to put it on the disc and count it the same as another full fledged map?

Does that make sense :\?
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
chapel said:
Here is something really telling. In the beta everyone hated swordbase. I would rather play swordbase than the cage, or pinnacle. Asylum is okay, but the framerate issues on it suck. Thankfully they put the kill zones on top, but didn't put one on top of the main base, where people can still camp, just not as easily.

Pinnacle is another issue, the spawns are broken when you consider weapon layout, why does blue get automatic rockets? Who thought that was smart? Sure red gets big tower, but there isn't a comparable power weapon in sight. In fact blue gets faster access to shotgun as well.
Click to expand...

You completely ignored the question and answered something that wasn't asked.

Sure, I'll buy that the Cage shouldn't count, but the other maps in Forge World still do, as Bungie still had to make the geometry and the Forge pieces in the specific designs for the map. Notice that the parts used in Pinnacle and the Hemorrhage bases are custom-made for those structures, not the regular generic "Forerunner Cube." As shitty as Pinnacle is to play on, it took more effort than just putting a bunch of blocks together and calling it a day.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Kuroyume said:
Not sure why this map bitching is turning up again. Should have known what to expect the second they revealed al the maps. The bad thing is that they'll have to split up any map packs for each mode. Have to have a map for Invasion and BTB, Firefight, Small maps, Forge stuff etc... It will dilute things because where as most people will want Invasion/BTB and small maps they'll try to focus on everything.
Click to expand...
Which is why they should make more maps for each pack, minimum of five each pack.

And yes "map bitching" should turn up again, it's a major issue currently with the game.
 
A

aesop

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Paradiso is (again no offense) god awful... But that isn't reason enough to not include it as a map...
Click to expand...

You're a giant douche (no offense). :lol

Quick edit: No, I don't really think you're a giant douche. I'm just pointing out that using 'no offense' doesn't give you license to spout off insults without coming off like a troll/hater/whatever.
 
P

pakkit

Banned
Striker said:
Reverse that order, my friend.

In my mind it's easily Halo 2, Halo: Reach, Halo 1, and then Halo 3.
Click to expand...
As a Cowboy fan, we're just going to have to disagree. :)

:'(

One thing that annoys me about the Forge World maps is that the banner is the same for all of them. It takes a while to commit those maps to memory, and I'm sure Forge World will only grow in size, so, please Bungie, for the love of Christ take some photos of the few identifiably unique areas of the FW maps and put them in the banners.
 
U

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
StuBurns said:
Is Bungie's podcast over for the foreseeable future?
Click to expand...
Nope. We're talking about recording one next week.

Oh, and the Spartometer should be along shortly.
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
I understand that the plasma launcher was OP in the Beta, but did you have to make it completely worthless? A tank can juke it and they grenades take so long to explode that even if you do stick somebody, they'll probably kill you anyway in the meantime or someone else will steal the kill.

Also, count me in with the group that hates Armor Lock after defending it for the last month. Literally every sticky I've had tonight has been Rejected. RRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Devin Olsen said:
I don't know the amount of resources/time spent on making a real map but I am quite sure that it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100x more work (total guess) then it takes to whip up something in Forge.

Asylum and Pinnacle are both remakes and so churning those two out would take no time at all with Fancy Forge.
Click to expand...
What you gloss over is the difference between what the community has available to it, and what Bungie had available to it. Mother Microsoft didn't drive down from Redmond with a thumb drive full of Forge assets, every last texture and object in Forge World had to be created from scratch. For reasons of time and budget, those were shared with other maps. The maps weren't whipped up. They're very "real".
 
U

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
Not to mention it completely ignores Forge World itself, which at one point was literally five distinct maps before Cotton merged them in a fit of madness.
 
C

chapel

Banned
urk said:
Not to mention it completely ignores Forge World itself, which at one point was literally five distinct maps before Cotton merged them in a fit of madness.
Click to expand...
My issue isn't that they are forge maps, I just don't like them.
 
U

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
chapel said:
My issue isn't that they are forge maps, I just don't like them.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion, and one that doesn't dismiss a massive feature to conclude that the Forge World maps were cheap and easy to make. :)
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
urk said:
Not to mention it completely ignores Forge World itself, which at one point was literally five distinct maps before Cotton merged them in a fit of madness.
Click to expand...
Any idea what's going on with data being lost on Bungie.net?
 
C

chapel

Banned
urk said:
That's your opinion, and one that doesn't dismiss a massive feature to conclude that the Forge World maps were cheap and easy to make. :)
Click to expand...
I think forge world is a cool idea, but feel the lack of textures and palette changes leave me wanting. I don't like the forge maps as a whole, and I am sad because of it.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
urk said:
Details, girlfriend!
Click to expand...
Why hasn't my Spartan updated yet on bungie.net?

Any chance of a patch or some work around so 4gb'ers can use file share and other hard drive related features?
 
S

Striker

Member
chapel said:
I think forge world is a cool idea, but feel the lack of textures and palette changes leave me wanting. I don't like the forge maps as a whole, and I am sad because of it.
Click to expand...
We got four solid maps out of it. Whether you have a distaste in its aesthetics is a different story. The Forerunner structures and grass knolls beats the shit out of what we were given in Halo 3 with Foundry and Sandbox. Those were eye-sores; I don't get that reaction looking at these maps in Reach.

What I'm curious for is later Forge World-esqe maps. An urban setting would be fantastic. Think of something similar to Metropolis in Halo 2's campaign. Big buildings scattered ouside the building areas, and within, similar to how they used the trees, valley, and water in this one. Somebody can get true remakes for Turf, Terminal, and Headlong in this setting, as well.
 
G

GloveSlap

Member
Thagomizer said:
I understand that the plasma launcher was OP in the Beta, but did you have to make it completely worthless? A tank can juke it and they grenades take so long to explode that even if you do stick somebody, they'll probably kill you anyway in the meantime or someone else will steal the kill.

Also, count me in with the group that hates Armor Lock after defending it for the last month. Literally every sticky I've had tonight has been Rejected. RRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE
Click to expand...

Not to mention the beam rifle, you would have to pay me to pick that up in the retail game. I know the grenade launcher was nerfed but i still love it and find it really satisfying to use. I find it hilarious that they nerfed those 3 weapons but the rocket still shoots nuclear bombs, it makes no sense.

Armor Lock, camo, and the sniper are really making me start to hate the game. They are so easy to exploit and people are really staring to cheese it up now that they are getting more familiar with them.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Sparkast

F**king fangasam. The interview... just wow. Any fears I had, and to be honest they were minimal to begin with, have been laid to rest. Print it now, Frankie. Big-ass grin on my face after listening to the very confident yet humble Mr Bear.

Negatives - awful chiptune music (I love chiptune but the samples used were just horrid) and the volume was acting crazy constantly throughout the interview.

More please? =)
 
W

WickedLaharl

Member
BTB on countdown is such a mess. if you dislike AL then you would probably rage to the point of snapping your disc in half playing BTB slayer on that map.
 
L

lybertyboy

Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Dani said:
Sparkast

The interview...the volume was acting crazy constantly throughout the interview.

More please? =)
Click to expand...

One of the negatives of recording with a stick mic in a Comic Con conference room. Audio should be much, much better recording in our studio.
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
Devin Olsen said:
Just to make things clear, I do not mean to come off as rude or a hater... I enjoy the game and this is my idea of constructive criticism. I apologize if others take it the wrong way.

The Cage, Paradiso (lol), Asylum, Pinnacle are all made in FORGE!

I don't know the amount of resources/time spent on making a real map but I am quite sure that it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100x more work (total guess) then it takes to whip up something in Forge.

Asylum and Pinnacle are both remakes and so churning those two out would take no time at all with Fancy Forge.

Paradiso is (again no offense) god awful... But that isn't reason enough to not include it as a map...

The summed up reason I do not count Forge maps the same as I do real maps is because it just feels cheap.

Don't ship a game with a bunch of maps that the community could make in a couple of days, and count them as part of the map count. Brian has even said that Bungie would NEVER sell Forge Maps as DLC, he admits that selling something that anyone can make wouldn't be reasonable. So why is it OK to put it on the disc and count it the same as another full fledged map?

Does that make sense :\?
Click to expand...
I know you're not a troll or a hater, I just get frustrated with folks saying that the Forgeworld maps don't count, not because they're not real maps, but that they don't count "on principle." Which is what you're saying. Sure, it's the same size as a traditional Halo map. Sure, it was designed, playtested and iterated on like a traditional Halo map. Sure, it was there Day 1 in Matchmaking. Sure, it is exactly the same as any traditional Halo map other than in how it was created. But despite all that, I'm going to discount them as maps and use that a springboard for my "why does Reach have less maps than the other games" argument.

It doesn't bother me when there are complaints about the amount of maps Reach offered. Those complaints, valid or invalid, were voiced early in Halo 3's lifecycle, as well. It just specifically bugs me when someone lists off the maps in Reach and purposefully excludes the Forgeworld maps because they don't count "on principle."
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Sai-kun said:
But that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Click to expand...
RM5Fb.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
urk said:
It's the principalities!
Click to expand...
Stop wasting time on GAF that you could be using to remake Ascension/Pinnacle as a legit map. The map itself is actually good so the geometry should stay in the same place and even look the same. I just don't want them to be Forge objects.

Thanks.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Cocopjojo said:
I know you're not a troll or a hater, I just get frustrated with folks saying that the Forgeworld maps don't count, not because they're not real maps, but that they don't count "on principle." Which is what you're saying. Sure, it's the same size as a traditional Halo map. Sure, it was designed, playtested and iterated on like a traditional Halo map. Sure, it was there Day 1 in Matchmaking. Sure, it is exactly the same as any traditional Halo map other than in how it was created. But despite all that, I'm going to discount them as maps and use that a springboard for my "why does Reach have less maps than the other games" argument.

It doesn't bother me when there are complaints about the amount of maps Reach offered. Those complaints, valid or invalid, were voiced early in Halo 3's lifecycle, as well. It just specifically bugs me when someone lists off the maps in Reach and purposefully excludes the Forgeworld maps because they don't count "on principle."
Click to expand...
Were they even made differently though? Pinnacle was just cut up into forge pieces, otherwise it would have been exactly like reflection.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
Striker said:
We got four solid maps out of it. Whether you have a distaste in its aesthetics is a different story. The Forerunner structures and grass knolls beats the shit out of what we were given in Halo 3 with Foundry and Sandbox. Those were eye-sores; I don't get that reaction looking at these maps in Reach.
Click to expand...

Seriously... When I first saw FW I was disappointed by the way it looked but I was pleasantly surprised by it when I finally played the game.
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
Kuroyume said:
Seriously... When I first saw FW I was disappointed by the way it looked but I was pleasantly surprised by it when I finally played the game.
Click to expand...
I think Asylum and Pinnacle play incredibly well considering they were designed for a sandbox without armor abilities. They're two of my favorite maps in the game. So it's a shame that they get discounted. However, it is just that opinion that I disagree with and not the people. With someone like Devin, you can't be a "hater" and also have mastered The Silent Cartographer in 3:29. :)
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
LAUGHTREY said:
Were they even made differently though? Pinnacle was just cut up into forge pieces, otherwise it would have been exactly like reflection.
Click to expand...
So what you're telling me is that Pinnacle could have been gorgeous?
 
Lazslo

Lazslo

Member
Sai-kun said:
But that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Click to expand...
Well played sir, I was actually thinking about The Dude while reading all these opinions (I watched the movie 2 days ago, never gets old)

I count and admire the Forge Maps as regular maps because they are just as fun to play on as something like Boardwalk, and the environment is so big and vast it doesn't get old to look at ala Sandbox. However, more importantly, I like the fact that Bungie used the Forge Items on each map because this way we can delete the objects and use the space to create different variants. I'm sure they could of made unique geometry on each different space in Forge World- but it would lose it's 'forgeability' in the process. I guess in the end it's a trade-off of having something really cool and original looking to play on or have the Forge World as it is currently, birthing amazing user content that will trickle out for a long while. I rather have all the little map-babies.
 
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