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Reports on Russian connections to Trump [Summaries in OP] #GoldenShowers

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R

RDreamer

Member
7DollarHagane said:
Of course. Without proof or evidence it's all just hearsay. The bits about Russia seeing Trump as a preferable outcome to the election is logical.

The big question is did Trump knowingly benefit from Russian cooperation, and did they promise to reciprocate that cooperation.

I don't think that the second point is well established. Russia's goal of destabilization and not getting Hillary elected was the goal. Not for Trump to carry out their will as POTUS. I don't think they're looking for him to payback favors with presidential power.
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But Trump has already done them major favors with the GOP platform re: the Ukraine.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
So all of this is unverified. If there's one thing we should all have learned over the past year, it's that everyone needs to wait until reports are confirmed before jumping to conclusions.

Anything else is tire spinning or misinformation, at best.
 
Bitch Pudding

Bitch Pudding

Member
vSBsLQ1.png


Wow, sounds like he's totally pissed right now.
 
D

DangerMouse

Member
antonz said:
FBI is run by a douche who basically admitted as much when he refused to say if there is an investigation or not because it wouldn't be proper.

Seems like McCain is one of the few reasons this is really even being pushed.
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Yeah, this shit is hilarious after he didn't have a problem doing what he did a week before the election.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
layzie1989 said:
I'd have to believe that there would be a tipping point where siding with Trump would irrevocably hurt a repub's chance for reelection... He already has a ~37℅ approval rating. How low can he go before everyone bails? And this time they don't have the "he's still better for the country than HRC" excuse to shield them when Pence is waiting in the wings to peddle the party line.
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Are we still trusting polls? Especially when it concerns Trump? The election already proved to us that Republicans will ride with Trump all the way into the Sun or rather the scorched wasteland that will be our future. You also are under the impression that right-wing voters give a shit about any of this.
 
M

Mooreberg

is sharpening a shovel and digging a ditch
AlteredBeast said:
Every single day, I get more and more pissed at the way Obama and Candy Crowell laughed at Romney for stating that Russia was America's biggest geopolitical foe.

That condescending laugh, with the follow up comments of "The cold war is over, governer" bother the shit out of me. I would never have voted for Romney back then, but he was prescient enough to see the shitstorm coming. He tried to keep Trump out of office, as well, but the American Public and the Democratic Party are too fucking stupid and/or full of themselves to have prevented a verifiable liar, sociopath, bigoted, sexist, xenophobe from winning the white house. WTF!
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Pretty much a "boy cries wolf" scenario, and Trump is the Wolf. The uproar over "binders full of women" wasn't needed, Obama was going to win comfortably anyway. Fast forward four years, and "grab them by the pussy" and actually having strings that reach back to Moscow do not even matter to half of the country. The venom needed to be saved for someone like Trump.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
Hypron said:
They wouldn't have been briefed about it in the first place if intelligence agencies didn't believe the information came from a credible source.
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Which likely led to an investigation of some degree. But a week before inauguration, this story remains a footnote without the 'receipts'. When Senator McCain asked the Republican leadership to open a committee investigation, they denied the request - which goes to show that, even if they were aware of the story, they did were confident enough to pursue it. Refusing to do so whilst knowing it was true would have been far more costly to the future of that party.

Again, we need to acknowledge this: this has been known for some time and no one - whether it be Republicans themselves or the FBI - has had enough evidence to act on it. This revelation shouldn't be confused as a new development in that story - one with new evidence. It's not worth anything more than a delicious rumour. And that's disappointing.

POTUS was briefed on this following his request to learn more about Russian's involvement with Wikileads and the DNC hack, which this covers; the basis of the brief was not the allegation that Russia had been compromised. There is an important distinction here.
 
K

Kettch

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
Which likely led to an investigation of some degree. But a week before inauguration, this story remains a footnote without the 'receipts'. When Senator McCain asked the Republican leadership to open a committee investigation, they denied the request - which goes to show that, even if they were aware of the story, they did not confident enough to pursue it.

Again, we need to acknowledge this: this has been known for some time and no one - whether it be Republicans themselves or the FBI - has had enough evidence to act on it. This revelation shouldn't be confused as a new development in that story - one with new evidence. It's not worth anything more than a delicious rumour. And that's disappointing.
Click to expand...

If there is nothing new at all and it's all rumor, then we do have a big story on our hands. That the intelligence agencies fucked up big time and presented the President with completely unverified rumors in an intelligence briefing. Either way this is pretty big.
 
C

chillybright

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
  • In his final speech, President Obama last night reflected on the election of Trump as a reminder that people must act by engaging in campaigns and change locally. Tellingly, he used Trump's position on Muslims and other minorities as the cause. He did not speak of integrity, or virtues, or anything that would suggest that Trump's character -- rather than his views -- was the reason why people should act to make changes.
  • The dossier gathered by the former Mi6 agent comes with no actual physical evidence.
  • Presumably, the FBI have nothing in terms of physical evidence e.g. the tape or they would have approached the Republican leadership and the POTUS with the view of delaying/cancelling the inauguration.
  • The most significant development was Senator McCain taking up an interest in the dossier in December.
  • The dossier was sent to the FBI in July.

Allegations of relations with Russia are well established. All this is, without proof, is further allegation.

To me, this coverage seems to be timed to happen just before Trump's conference. That seems to be the only good reason as to why this story is now gaining traction after being in the public domain for at least 6 months.
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So there is no receipt after all?

you got receipt on this?
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
I really don't understand why the republicans aren't impeaching Trump and installing Pence. It'd be better for literally everyone in the world but Putin and Trump.
 
Tevious

Tevious

Member
carlsojo said:
Let's say Trump is arrested for treason. Like... do his Secret Service officers do the honors?
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Guys, Trump can't be arrested for treason. As I understand it, no one can be arrested or tried for treason as long as we're not at war with another nation; formally declared war by congress. That's why no one has been tried for treason since WW2 (or people who were caught afterward who committed treason during the war), because we haven't been formally at war since then. If they get Trump for any ties with Russia, it'll likely be for violating the Logan Act. It's a felony, but Trump wouldn't be sentenced to death over it. Actually, no one has ever even been prosecuted for violating it before, so who knows what would happen.
 
Raven117

Raven117

Member
AlteredBeast said:
Every single day, I get more and more pissed at the way Obama and Candy Crowell laughed at Romney for stating that Russia was America's biggest geopolitical foe.

That condescending laugh, with the follow up comments of "The cold war is over, governer" bother the shit out of me. I would never have voted for Romney back then, but he was prescient enough to see the shitstorm coming. He tried to keep Trump out of office, as well, but the American Public and the Democratic Party are too fucking stupid and/or full of themselves to have prevented a verifiable liar, sociopath, bigoted, sexist, xenophobe from winning the white house. WTF!
Click to expand...
Yup... And John mmcain before that. Completely vilified on no substantial grounds. Then when a real Villian came along nobody listened.

I too think of this moment a lot. In a way, it encapsulates that "elitism" that ultimately hurt the democrats.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I really don't understand why the republicans aren't impeaching Trump and installing Pence. It'd be better for literally everyone in the world but Putin and Trump.
Click to expand...

Like it's been mentioned before, turning on Trump is basically guaranteed to cause a fracture in the party, since Trump's fanbase would proceed to demonize establishment Republicans even more than they already do.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
Kettch said:
If there is nothing new at all and it's all rumor, then we do have a big story on our hands. That the intelligence agencies fucked up big time and presented the President with completely unverified rumors in an intelligence briefing. Either way this is pretty big.
Click to expand...

POTUS was briefed after asking to learn more about Russian's involvement with Wikileads and the DNC hack, which this story covers; the basis of the brief was not the allegation that Trump had been personally compromised. There is an important distinction here. If it was, he would have been briefed on it in the summer when the information was sent to the FBI.
 
H

Henkka

Banned
Tahnit said:
looking back on it you are probably right.
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I dunno. 4chan is where Pizzagate started. Like it or not, the things 4chan spreads can have real influence. No doubt there's a lot of Russian trolls signal boosting the theories they come up with
 
U

Uhyve

Member
We never should've started the fake news thing, it just gave them an extra adjective. Obviously, Facebook news is cancer, but we just elected a racist/sexist/truther/birther/mra/anti-vaxer into office, whatever happens, anything is gonna be fake-news, left wing, jewish controlled media bias. And his people will eat it up.

At this point, I feel like Trump would have to murder someone, on camera, with witnesses, in order for something to actually change... and I really wish I could say I was being pessimistic.

Maybe he'd have to desecrate the body somehow, and do some sort of devil worshiping thing. That might be pessimistic. Probably.

Edit: I found it unbelievable when I found out NeoGAF had gaming astroturfers. Do the mods have any indications that we have a Russian political equivalent? Or do we just have more intensely stupid people here than I thought?
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Henkka said:
I dunno. 4chan is where Pizzagate started. Like it or not, the things 4chan spreads can have real influence. No doubt there's a lot of Russian trolls signal boosting the theories they come up with
Click to expand...
Pizza gate is exactly the reason you shouldn't spread 4chan shit
 
C

carlsojo

Member
Tevious said:
Guys, Trump can't be arrested for treason. As I understand it, no one can be arrested or tried for treason as long as we're not at war with another nation; formally declared war by congress. That's why no one has been tried for treason since WW2 (or people who were caught afterward who committed treason during the war), because we haven't been formally at war since then. If they get Trump for any ties with Russia, it'll likely be for violating the Logan Act. It's a felony, but Trump wouldn't be sentenced to death over it. Actually, no one has ever even been prosecuted for violating it before, so who knows what would happen.
Click to expand...

I mean basically what I wanted to know is if Trump were to be arrested, who arrests him?
 
W

WiiredShawn

Member
Tevious said:
Guys, Trump can't be arrested for treason. As I understand it, no one can be arrested or tried for treason as long as we're not at war with another nation; formally declared war by congress. That's why no one has been tried for treason since WW2 (or people who were caught afterward who committed treason during the war), because we haven't been formally at war since then. If they get Trump for any ties with Russia, it'll likely be for violating the Logan Act. It's a felony, but Trump wouldn't be sentenced to death over it. Actually, no one has ever even been prosecuted for violating it before, so who knows what would happen.
Click to expand...

Even if he's not arrested, impeachment shouldn't be impossible. I mean, Republicans tried to impeach Bill Clinton on the basis of "perjury" and "obstruction of justice" when he slept with an intern and didn't totally fess up to it in a lawsuit. That's a magnitude less serious than a foreign power trying to undermine our very system of government and install a puppet leader.

The real question is: Are there enough Republican politicians with actual morals to act on this?
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Henkka said:
I dunno. 4chan is where Pizzagate started. Like it or not, the things 4chan spreads can have real influence. No doubt there's a lot of Russian trolls signal boosting the theories they come up with
Click to expand...
That's fine. But no reason to propagate their message with a giant image here when he knows it's fake. You'll just get someone popping in here that will take it at face value
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Raven117 said:
Yup... And John mmcain before that. Completely vilified on no substantial grounds. Then when a real Villian came along nobody listened.

I too think of this moment a lot. In a way, it encapsulates that "elitism" that ultimately hurt the democrats.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That snickering bullshit is the same reason Hillary didn't visit key blue states that she ended up losing. "How could an orange buffoon possibly beat the pre-anointed leader of the free world?"

I am 99% sure nothing will come of this. I have already seen the dumbasses on my Facebook feed come to defend th news and reject it, but if that 1% turns out to be true, I will be so pleased with my government and my fellow Americans. Pence is a totally horrible person, but at least he is a human being, Donald J. Trump doesn't even qualify as that.
 
A

Apharmd

Member
Uhyve said:
We never should've started the fake news thing, it just gave them an extra adjective. Obviously, Facebook news is cancer, but we just elected a racist/sexist/truther/birther/mra/anti-vaxer into office, whatever happens, anything is gonna be fake-news, left wing, jewish controlled media bias. And his people will eat it up.

At this point, I feel like Trump would have to murder someone, on camera, with witnesses, in order for something to actually change... and I really wish I could say I was being pessimistic.

Maybe he'd have to desecrate the body somehow, and do some sort of devil worshiping thing. That might be pessimistic. Probably.
Click to expand...

No need to victim-blame ourselves, bro. Trump supporters live on a different reality. If they didn't steal the "fake news" tag, they'd do something else and we'd still be in the same boat.

Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
Russian astroturfers are probably working on overtime right now.
Click to expand...

It's how we know this shit is le-git :^)
 
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