TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It would be like an open invitation for other countries to interfere in our elections.
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Reports on Russian connections to Trump [Summaries in OP] #GoldenShowers
- Thread starter chadskin
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It would be like an open invitation for other countries to interfere in our elections.
ImpracticalPassword
Member
Mm, it's a good time for Trump to flip-flop and immediately abolish the death penalty...
we all "know" about the russian ties. we didn't know about the piss. now someone, who's not us, because we can't, has to solidify those ties. until then piss.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
This report is months older than the /pol stuff.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
This country must be in real trouble if this sentence is somehow valid. Real and dangerous trouble.
Meus Renaissance
Member
- In his final speech, President Obama last night reflected on the election of Trump as a reminder that people must act by engaging in campaigns and change locally. Tellingly, he used Trump's position on Muslims and other minorities as the cause. He did not speak of integrity, or virtues, or anything that would suggest that Trump's character -- rather than his views -- was the reason why people should act to make changes.
- The dossier gathered by the former Mi6 agent comes with no actual physical evidence.
- Presumably, the FBI have nothing in terms of physical evidence e.g. the tape or they would have approached the Republican leadership and the POTUS with the view of delaying/cancelling the inauguration.
- The most significant development was Senator McCain taking up an interest in the dossier in December.
- The dossier was sent to the FBI in July.
Allegations of relations with Russia are well established. All this is, without proof, is further allegation.
To me, this coverage seems to be timed to happen just before Trump's conference. That seems to be the only good reason as to why this story is now gaining traction after being in the public domain for at least 6 months.
Paul Ryan - or honestly even Pence - becoming president would tear the Republican party apart and reignite the predicted civil war that never quite hit its boiling point prior to the election. After all, for the Trump contingent this would be The Establishment going against their golden emperor. Since John McCain is a player in bringing this story forth, it would be very easy to convince them that The Establishment is behind this expulsion of Trump. And I would expect the next president to be forced to condemn the actions of Trump as well, which would of course not play well with his supporters either.
I didn't even know there was a thing called 'pardon'.
Every day I learn new things about your system and I get more disheartened. This person has gotten away with so much shit is unreal. In Europe he would have been forced to apologise and maybe even resign for only 5% of all the bullshit he's said.
Every day I learn new things about your system and I get more disheartened. This person has gotten away with so much shit is unreal. In Europe he would have been forced to apologise and maybe even resign for only 5% of all the bullshit he's said.
Exactly. It'll haunt Trump with the nagging question of just what dirt the Russians have on him, which can do plenty of damage by itself. DC politics loves ruining people with nothing more than innuendo.
tearsintherain
Member
There's a huge gap between what we know and what people are assuming. as far as I know, and correct me if I am wrong, what we know are:
1. the US intelligence community briefed Obama and Trump over what Russia did to interfere with US elections a few days ago and probably last month as well.
2. Buzzfeed leaked a 35 page document today which they claim is the basis of those briefings.
3. The document is supposed to be authored by an ex British intelligence officer. NOT official intel documents from any country, just someone contracted to find out info on Trump by "groups and donors". He says he sourced various people including intelligence officers, ambassadors, and others.
4. We don't know if #2 and #3 are true and tied to #1. It could be the same document, it could be fake, there could be a completely different set of documents.
Keep in mind we went to war on Iraq on the basis of intelligence from a source named Curveball who outrageously made stuff up in order to get Asylum in the west. Just about everything he said was false but because Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the CIA wanted war with Iraq they all believed it. He was a taxi drive who passed himself off as a nuclear engineer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
I am not at all trying to say all these Trump-Russia ties are fake, but people need to wait and see what the investigations lead to. There are a number of claims in these documents that should be verifiable, like when and where Trump stayed in Russia, who visited him, whether the business ties and loans claimed occurred or not, whether his lawyer visited Prague and Russia on the dates claimed, etc.
If the stuff is true its extremely dangerous to our country. If however its false and people run with it as if its true, its extremely damaging to the credibility of the media, which is pretty much near zero as far as many people are concerned.
1. the US intelligence community briefed Obama and Trump over what Russia did to interfere with US elections a few days ago and probably last month as well.
2. Buzzfeed leaked a 35 page document today which they claim is the basis of those briefings.
3. The document is supposed to be authored by an ex British intelligence officer. NOT official intel documents from any country, just someone contracted to find out info on Trump by "groups and donors". He says he sourced various people including intelligence officers, ambassadors, and others.
4. We don't know if #2 and #3 are true and tied to #1. It could be the same document, it could be fake, there could be a completely different set of documents.
Keep in mind we went to war on Iraq on the basis of intelligence from a source named Curveball who outrageously made stuff up in order to get Asylum in the west. Just about everything he said was false but because Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the CIA wanted war with Iraq they all believed it. He was a taxi drive who passed himself off as a nuclear engineer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
I am not at all trying to say all these Trump-Russia ties are fake, but people need to wait and see what the investigations lead to. There are a number of claims in these documents that should be verifiable, like when and where Trump stayed in Russia, who visited him, whether the business ties and loans claimed occurred or not, whether his lawyer visited Prague and Russia on the dates claimed, etc.
If the stuff is true its extremely dangerous to our country. If however its false and people run with it as if its true, its extremely damaging to the credibility of the media, which is pretty much near zero as far as many people are concerned.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I changed the thread title to make people aware of the summaries. I added the "#GoldenShowers" because it seems to be the name for the story right now.
It's not impossible, but since all of the evidence that 4chan is providing is blatant bullshit, photoshops, and misdirection, it doesn't look like they have much of an argument.
It's not impossible, but since all of the evidence that 4chan is providing is blatant bullshit, photoshops, and misdirection, it doesn't look like they have much of an argument.
WiiredShawn
Member
Never mind.
poppedcollar69
Member
it wasnt tho
Back-In-Black
Banned
He would have to be removed from office first through impeachment. A criminal trial would be separate from an impeachment proceeding. Also, it's doubtful he would be found guilty of treason.
On that note, what do people actually expect to come from all of this? The Republicans control Congress, do you really think they are going to initiate impeachment proceedings against Trump? Nothing is going to happen to him. The best we can hope for is that this is used as good ammunition against him and the party politically in the upcoming mid-term elections and 2020 presidential election.
Psychoward
Banned
I never realized until tonight how much I really want Trump to suffer.
I'm not gonna be satisfied until him, Pence and the entire administration are routed and he's sniffling in his final press conference before he goes off to prison.
The reason this is gaining traction is because Obama and Trump were briefed on it by the intelligence agencies. That's all there is to it.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Thanks Mandrake for the reflective title! May heavens above shower you with glorious love.
Even if people forget about this for a short bit, and i doubt it but lets run with it, remember that this report gives credence to him committing an ACTUAL CRIME, probably multiple of them. There wasnt anything really illegal with his charity shit, his tax stuff wasn't illegal, Pussygate was borderline, but while he said that despicable thing, that was not explicitly a crime. Groping the Miss Universe contestants is shaky as that case would be hard to prove in our justice system with our culture/attitude to that (sadly).
The real difference with this is that it DOES deal with actual illegal matters. Matters where the intelligence community is already involved. They're not going to stop investigating this because your parents forgot about it for some time. If charges come this is going straight to the front page again.
The real difference with this is that it DOES deal with actual illegal matters. Matters where the intelligence community is already involved. They're not going to stop investigating this because your parents forgot about it for some time. If charges come this is going straight to the front page again.
Psychoward
Banned
Any Republicans with half a spine or ones in danger of being ousted from their seats are gonna proceed with the hearings tho
BlazingDarkness
Member
Too early to tell, for both of your questions.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Of course. Without proof or evidence it's all just hearsay. The bits about Russia seeing Trump as a preferable outcome to the election is logical.
The big question is did Trump knowingly benefit from Russian cooperation, and did they promise to reciprocate that cooperation.
I don't think that the second point is well established. Russia's goal of destabilization and not getting Hillary elected was the goal. Not for Trump to carry out their will as POTUS. I don't think they're looking for him to payback favors with presidential power.
And here we go again with the NeoGAF bubble getting worked up on basically fumes right now.
Take a deep breath and temper expectations before you start planning what you'll eat for breakfast the day Trump is executed for treason.
Take a deep breath and temper expectations before you start planning what you'll eat for breakfast the day Trump is executed for treason.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
It's impossible. Come on liberals don't get hyped over this. Nothing's gonna happen but more all caps tweets
WiiredShawn
Member
Leaked photo of the golden shower event...
I know it's tired, but I'm late to the party.
Yep. Pussygate was an unflattering soundbite with awful but unprovable implications. This is "the federal government could be building a case to charge the president-elect with treason."
Also: there are plenty of Republicans with a bone to pick with Trump. The old guard that's been with the party since the Cold War era in particular are gonna be spooked as fuck by the idea of a Russian Manchurian candidate. See also: McCain backing this report heavily. A Republican congress does not mean this couldn't lead to impeachment.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Every single day, I get more and more pissed at the way Obama and Candy Crowell laughed at Romney for stating that Russia was America's biggest geopolitical foe.
That condescending laugh, with the follow up comments of "The cold war is over, governer" bother the shit out of me. I would never have voted for Romney back then, but he was prescient enough to see the shitstorm coming. He tried to keep Trump out of office, as well, but the American Public and the Democratic Party are too fucking stupid and/or full of themselves to have prevented a verifiable liar, sociopath, bigoted, sexist, xenophobe from winning the white house. WTF!
That condescending laugh, with the follow up comments of "The cold war is over, governer" bother the shit out of me. I would never have voted for Romney back then, but he was prescient enough to see the shitstorm coming. He tried to keep Trump out of office, as well, but the American Public and the Democratic Party are too fucking stupid and/or full of themselves to have prevented a verifiable liar, sociopath, bigoted, sexist, xenophobe from winning the white house. WTF!
Meus Renaissance
Member
Brief on information at least 6 months old and done so a week before the accused takes office. That tells you something about how important the FBI are taking these allegations.
This post can be improved. And you know it. YOU KNOW IT.
AusRoachman
Member
So a blowjob can bring down a president (clinton) , but golden showers and blackmail and treachery should just be forgotten? What an insane world we live in now .
I hope every rally he has someone throws a bottle of piss at him.
I hope every rally he has someone throws a bottle of piss at him.
Psychoward
Banned
I'm trying to get into a government cyber-security scholarship program where they flat out say your eligibility can be impacted by even a small hint of national security worries in your background. And here we are, putting a man into the most powerful position in our government. If this cyber-security scholarship program would not accept me solely from the dossier's claims, why would we even let Trump be president with this?
I wonder what the odds are all of this was timed to force republicans to acknowledge the legitimacy of these claims or risk losing face.
It's generally understood by nearly everyone in Washington that Russia is not an ally of the US and that they actively seek to undermine America's strength. By starting with a joint intelligence memo pointing at Russia as the culprit behind the DNC hacks, GOP lawmakers were put in a position where they had to acknowledge the legitimacy of the accusation or, like Trump, directly take on the intelligence departments. They couldn't cast doubt on the DHS, FBI, and CIA all together like that. Those are people with whom they've had a working relationship for years.
So first, they forced the GOP majority to acknowledge the authority of US intelligence. Point the finger at Russia. This happened even before the election was over.
Second, assign motive. Everyone but Trump admits, on record, that the Kremlin wanted Trump to win and actively worked to aide him.
Third, show Trump some of their evidence, Trump in turn admits in his own slimy way that yes, there's some legitimacy to all the previous claims.
Finally, let loose the floodgates and force the Senate to stick to what they were saying just a few days ago that Russians actively supported Trump. As long as it doesn't burn out in the news cycle, it puts pressure on the GOP to approve further investigation directly. McCain will hopefully be a voice for this.
They may have had the chance to release a bunch of this before the election even took place but perhaps the best way Obama and co. thought the best way to appear as strong as possible was to let the election play out without drawing too much attention to this spat with Russia. No one thought Trump would seriously win, not even Putin, so Obama thought there'd be no need to drag it out if Clinton was going to be President anyway. But then that didn't happen. If they had released this immediately after the election was decided, the GOP would have been able to deny the legitimacy of all of it in one swoop. This way, they get them to commit before they reveal the actual conspiracy.
Or maybe this just all happened this way by complete chance *shrugs*
It's generally understood by nearly everyone in Washington that Russia is not an ally of the US and that they actively seek to undermine America's strength. By starting with a joint intelligence memo pointing at Russia as the culprit behind the DNC hacks, GOP lawmakers were put in a position where they had to acknowledge the legitimacy of the accusation or, like Trump, directly take on the intelligence departments. They couldn't cast doubt on the DHS, FBI, and CIA all together like that. Those are people with whom they've had a working relationship for years.
So first, they forced the GOP majority to acknowledge the authority of US intelligence. Point the finger at Russia. This happened even before the election was over.
Second, assign motive. Everyone but Trump admits, on record, that the Kremlin wanted Trump to win and actively worked to aide him.
Third, show Trump some of their evidence, Trump in turn admits in his own slimy way that yes, there's some legitimacy to all the previous claims.
Finally, let loose the floodgates and force the Senate to stick to what they were saying just a few days ago that Russians actively supported Trump. As long as it doesn't burn out in the news cycle, it puts pressure on the GOP to approve further investigation directly. McCain will hopefully be a voice for this.
They may have had the chance to release a bunch of this before the election even took place but perhaps the best way Obama and co. thought the best way to appear as strong as possible was to let the election play out without drawing too much attention to this spat with Russia. No one thought Trump would seriously win, not even Putin, so Obama thought there'd be no need to drag it out if Clinton was going to be President anyway. But then that didn't happen. If they had released this immediately after the election was decided, the GOP would have been able to deny the legitimacy of all of it in one swoop. This way, they get them to commit before they reveal the actual conspiracy.
Or maybe this just all happened this way by complete chance *shrugs*
I need someone with Photoshop to edit this:
You know what to do.
Already taken care of
Even better
Big Baybee
Member
Liberals need to keep hammering Trump and republicans on this.
They wouldn't have been briefed about it in the first place if intelligence agencies didn't believe the information came from a credible source.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Cause the framers never foresaw fuckery like this getting this far.
The fact that Obama was briefed on it at all tells me that they're taking it seriously. That's actually the only reason why I didn't disregard this immediately.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah.
Yup, it's nuts.
Actually it's the opposite. The fact that it was finally in the briefing tells you they've now found that some of it is credible enough to include.
Wait, who's having a press conference?
7DollarHagane
Banned
Given the number of persons involved over such a long span of time over so many locations and etc I am amazed there is no person who can say "I saw Donald Trump in Russia on x day" or that none of these hookers would speak up about something.
Is Trump known to take visits to Russia? Isn't it pretty hard to fly internationally without some kind of record of it?
And why does he need Russian hookers? I'm sure he can get all the hookers he wants in Trump tower without hidden Russian cameras.
Back-In-Black
Banned
Lol, like those brake Republicans that spoke out against Trump during the election? Like Ted Cruz who came crawling back just in time. And, what Republican is in danger of being ousted by a liberal? The reality is that Trump's die hard supporters would oust any Republican that tried to turn against him and vote for a more die-hard crazy in their primary.
FBI is run by a douche who basically admitted as much when he refused to say if there is an investigation or not because it wouldn't be proper.
Seems like McCain is one of the few reasons this is really even being pushed.
Lonewolf_92
Member
Thank you, now maybe there won't need to be three pages going over the fake 4Chan BS for every page of actual discussion.
For those who want a breakdown of what was actually in the report: here
This is also worth reading as it lays out the timeline and sheds a bit of light on the players in this drama, very much worth the read.
The bit about "Golden Showers" is in there, Trumpsters from /POL (and likely Russian agents, and sockpuppet accounts from both) are trying to spread FUD about it to protect their "Golden Boy" by claiming that bit is from 4Chan, even going as far as creating fake images in an attempt to discredit the whole thing (the "Hentai" image is from them). They're trying to discredit it because, in addition to the "Golden showers" incident, there are serious claims that cast Trump as being very much compromised by Russia.
This is nothing like "Pizzagate" or the "Birther" movement, or other fringe rightwing clap-trap. This was part of a joint report by the FBI, CIA, and Homeland Security, not cooked up on some crackhead's website for clicks. This is being picked up by major news companies because this is major, and I mean "bigger than Watergate", news.
layzie1989
Member
I'd have to believe that there would be a tipping point where siding with Trump would irrevocably hurt a repub's chance for reelection... He already has a ~37℅ approval rating. How low can he go before everyone bails? And this time they don't have the "he's still better for the country than HRC" excuse to shield them when Pence is waiting in the wings to peddle the party line.
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