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Republique Kickstarter by Ryan Payton - NOW FOR PC AND MAC! [Ended, $555K funded]
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Interesting enough for some reason the Kickstarter has some traction again, almost 4k in the last day, the best day since the first four days.
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan/
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan/
DiscoJer
Member
I think he's taking away the wrong message, though.
It's the first part of the statement that is the important one..."empathize with people who are worried about their favorite game developers abandoning consoles or abandoning PC"
Not so much the "to work on throw away iPhone games. Some pretty terrible titles have been released for the App Store."
I mean, smartphone gaming probably is the future - not of games like Angry Birds and Cut the Rope or Fruit Ninja, but AAA games, too. Probably 20 years from now, we'll be plugging them into a TV (or some sort of screen). If they aren't implanted into us or something.
But getting people who currently game on other devices to rush to embrace that future (and subsidize it, in this case) is a hard sale. It's not the quality of the games, it's the platform that I think many people simply object to. PC gamers in particular, have seen some of their favorite games get consolized, so they have to put up with them getting mobilized now.
And right now, there probably aren't enough smartphone owners willing to fund the development. I'm sure once the game is made, it will sell extremely well. But kickstarter is really about donations, not even pre-purchases.
Perhaps the ''one device does it all'' way could be the future indeed, but I can't see it happening, and it's for one reason and one reason only: it's bad for business.
Things were going down this path, but then Apple came with the iPad. We all know it's the iPod Touch with a bigger screen (and now better specs), but Apple had the money and the influence to make people want it, even though not a single person ever needed it.
The Asus Pad Transformer combo is more logical and cheaper, but they're no Apple.
Plus, you can change the way a device works and what it offers, but you can't suddenly change its audience without creating a new one.
Beautifully Shaped Monsters
Member
Have people really called him an idiot? Well, I'm sure some have, but the majority of comments I have seen is: "Great idea for a game, but I really don't want to play it on a phone."
Then again GAF is not the world, though it is one of the places Ryan clearly sources for feedback.
I admire his seal, but I don't think the world is ready, and evidently Kickstarter is not the place to try untested idea, at least not when they require $500.000.
Maybe it's the same reason Vita is struggling. It's trying to be a Phone (in terms of games) and a console at the same time, and the audience who want those two combined simply does not exist to a large enough extend. I love the Uncharted Games myself, and borrowed a friends Vita to play its version of Uncharted, but the touch stuff has totally put me off. I also don't play games on my phone, despite being a pretty good one.
So while the premises for this game really sounds very very interesting, even if it came out for my phone, I would be unlikely to play it, so I'm even less likely to gamble a pledge, even a modest one, on this project.
Anyway, I do wish Ryan the best of luck, and maybe he will manage to beat the current and put out a great game, but I think he so far has shown that he is not reading his audience and the audience for the device he wants to develop for very well, which does not give me great confidence in his future endeavours (sorry for the harshness of this). I think at the moment he is risking more than the project, he's also risking to some extend his reputation.
Then again GAF is not the world, though it is one of the places Ryan clearly sources for feedback.
I admire his seal, but I don't think the world is ready, and evidently Kickstarter is not the place to try untested idea, at least not when they require $500.000.
Maybe it's the same reason Vita is struggling. It's trying to be a Phone (in terms of games) and a console at the same time, and the audience who want those two combined simply does not exist to a large enough extend. I love the Uncharted Games myself, and borrowed a friends Vita to play its version of Uncharted, but the touch stuff has totally put me off. I also don't play games on my phone, despite being a pretty good one.
So while the premises for this game really sounds very very interesting, even if it came out for my phone, I would be unlikely to play it, so I'm even less likely to gamble a pledge, even a modest one, on this project.
Anyway, I do wish Ryan the best of luck, and maybe he will manage to beat the current and put out a great game, but I think he so far has shown that he is not reading his audience and the audience for the device he wants to develop for very well, which does not give me great confidence in his future endeavours (sorry for the harshness of this). I think at the moment he is risking more than the project, he's also risking to some extend his reputation.
Apple is a weird bird, in that they are oftentimes years ahead of the curve, but once they've set the curve they lag way behind competitors in terms of features. Think of how long it took them to put up the App Store or even adopt 3G. They could have gone 4G with the iPhone 4S, but still stuck to supporting a slower, more outdated standard. They didn't have a decent solution for Copy/Paste until several iterations of iOS. People scoffed at the iPad because "You could do so much more with a much cheaper netbook!", but didn't recognize that using a netbook was just a shitty experience. Apple recognizes a lot of good ideas, but don't explore them until the technology has matured enough to make for a good user experience.
In a surprisingly short amount of time, your phone is going to be as powerful as your laptop today. And in only a slightly longer amount of time, your phone will be as powerful as your desktop today. At that point you will just hook your phone up to a monitor, pair it will a bluetooth mouse/keyboard, and you won't own a desktop/laptop at all unless you are a serious power user. You might say that "Well the desktops and laptops of tomorrow will be much more powerful than the phones of tomorrow". This is undoubtedly true, but at some point the phone will be powerful enough for 90% of users that aren't interested in gaming or high-end photo editing or other very technical applications.
While it might be fun to pretend that your tablet can really be a computer by hooking an Asus Transformer up to a keyboard, it's still a pretty poor substitute. Once the technology is developed enough for phones and tablets to seriously allow them to be desktop/laptop substitutes, Apple will be ready to strike. Microsoft is trying to beat them to the punch by putting Windows 8 on tablets, but we'll see how that pans out.
No, I don't think so. Scaling transistors isn't progressing as fast as it used to and there's simply no way you could include processing power of a modern 500W desktop PC in a phone 5 years from now.
Mobile devices are still veeeery inferior to my 2006 desktop PC. The progress is going to get even slower.
It's because a couple of big sites (saw IGN yesterday) twitted and asked for support for his stalled kickstarter.
This needs to continue to happen. It's sad such a concept isn't even a fifth of the way complete by now.
The iPad's already outputting better-than-HD resolutions and running stuff like Infinity Blade Dungeons. Where will it be in a few years?
We can argue about the timeline if you want, but it's going to happen sooner or later.
Most people don't even need a desktop that's all that powerful. The just want the internet, the email, and a few lightweight apps and games.
diffusionx
Gold Member
... and that 2006 desktop was still overkill for what most people do with their computers.
We hit the point of diminishing returns, in what people actually used their computers for, probably somewhere around 2003. Nowadays, powerful machines are important for high-end gaming (a niche), parallel computing (a niche), graphics work modeling (a niche), financial modeling (a niche), etc.
RPGCrazied
Member
Looks cool. Wish it was for PC too.
GitarooMan
Member
I actually think the issue is less the platform and more the lack of nostalgia. These large kickstarter projects have been fueled by nostalgia many long time gamers have for certain types of games. Even banner saga is fueled by a love for that art style and game type. If Schaefer had made an iOS game he still would have gotten a large amount of funding I think, maybe not as much but still very significant. This game looks very interesting but it doesn't stir the kind of nostalgic love that get a lot of people to sit up and donate beofore the game is even done.
HoodWinked
Member
was anyone else reminded of that naomi hunter teaser when they saw republique's trailer?
they sorta copied the original promo materials for mgs4 where naomi was asking snake for help. yes he worked on mgs but still.
they sorta copied the original promo materials for mgs4 where naomi was asking snake for help. yes he worked on mgs but still.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Not to mention that the 'As powerful as your desktop!' benchmark isn't static. Home/Work PCs will continue to develop, and probably faster than smartphones since they don't face the same size limitations.
Interficium
Banned
Good to see that the customer-blaming trend is extending into this new business model.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
How on earth are you reading that as blaming the customers? He's being candid about what his friends in the industry told him beforehand.
Father_Brain
Banned
I agree. There's little question that Camouflaj would be closer to their goal if the game were on PC, but as far as Kickstarter in general is concerned, Republique's problem is that it's too unique for its own good. There simply isn't a large audience clamoring for a stealth game with highly abstracted point-and-swipe controls on any platform.
Interficium
Banned
Reading the quote again I think I misread the fact "we should be asking for x dollars" were things being said to him, not being said by him.
At the same time I still get a "we're doing everything we can, we're just not being understood by gamers" vibe from the interview.
Also this:
Wot? How about Star Command? That project was even pre-Double Fine.
Not mention how lazy most people are. Most iPad owners use it to do things they could be doing on their desktop, i.e., browsing facebook, twitter and playing games that play just as well on a regular PC, but they'd rather do it laying on the couch.
Yeah, wasting time is fine, wasting time while on your couch just makes you a lazy slob.
I kicked in $10 even though I don't own an iOS device and I'm not a fan of mobile gaming aside from a few minutes here and there. If this was a 3DS/Vita/PC release, I'd be dropping down significantly more.
I actually don't think that the game even looks all that great, but I'm all for supporting developers who are trying to do something new and unique in any space, be it a platform I support or not.
I actually don't think that the game even looks all that great, but I'm all for supporting developers who are trying to do something new and unique in any space, be it a platform I support or not.
I'm completely sure about this. Isn't that why there's so much controversy anytime Blizzard hints about Diablo III on console? Whenever I jump into those threads, I see consistent messaging from the community that they'd want the game to be different and custom tailored for the console.
I also think back to when Invisible War and Thief III were designed for consoles first and PC second, and what we got was a pretty strange and inconsistent experience on both. More recently, I've been playing Snake Eater 3DS (the original is my favorite game of all-time) but just doesn't translate well to portable play because, obviously, it wasn't designed for the system.
I think there are exceptions to the rule though. Portal 2 was pretty awesome on both.
Yeah, the team's really excited! We're hoping the videos we've got planned for today, tomorrow and Friday will continue the momentum.
Doesn't really matter though. As pointed out earlier, nobody really needs a more powerful PC besides enthusiasts. Unless there is some new, broadly adopted technology that requires continuing leaps in power there is no reason to buy a new computer. I imagine most people at this point only get new laptops because the old one breaks or Windows has turned into the slow, bloated mess that it normally does after years of use and/or misuse.
The computer is going to be an appliance, for all intents and purposes. Maybe the oven you bought 5 years ago isn't as awesome and powerful as the ovens of today, but you don't feel like you need to buy a new oven because of it.
"Outputting", yes, but not doing it well. The massive jump in resolution has actually ruined performance in a lot of games that attempt to target the native resolution. I'm sure things will continue to improve, but mobile 3D chipsets simply weren't ready for such a high resolution.
Hell, even my GTX580 takes a pretty significant hit when jumping from 1080p to iPad resolution. For tablet computing, the high resolution is awesome, but it's actually a bit of a downer for games.
I'll be eager to see if IB Dungeons actually runs at native resolution. All of the UE3 games with new iPad support CLAIM to render in high resolution but they actually just upscale from a resolution slightly higher than 1024x768. I'd be willing to be that Dungeons will either do the same or run at a very poor framerate (probably the former).
Still, you're point about visual quality increases dramatically on the mobile side seems true. Things have been improving dramatically each year.
I only mention this as I've been very disappointed with these performance issues. They updated Aquaria to native resolution, for instance, which as crippled the framerate (used to be a smooth 60 fps now it dips constantly). For such a simplistic 2D game that's pretty disappointing.
Hari Seldon
Member
Should have led with PC. iOS games are for entertaining my baby or a newspaper substitute in the crapper. Lead on PC, get your funding and satisfy your core audience, and then port to iOS to capture extra monies.
Dog Problems
Banned
Do you entertain your baby with Infinity Blade?
Hari Seldon
Member
No, some Yo Gaba Gaba free app. Also some Old McDonald farm app thing.
Ghost Dad the Whip
Member
You can bump up resolution all you want but screen size is a factor when you are making a game this detailed for a iPhone screen.
I see this as great looking on an iPad but a super squinty affair on my iTouch.
I see this as great looking on an iPad but a super squinty affair on my iTouch.
exmachina64
Banned
What about watching HD video on your computer? Most people probably needed a hardware power increase for that.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Read it again. Slowly.
People are concerned about the inevitable Diablo 3 port because they want to believe that the few remaining kings of PC gaming are slowly moving to consoles and they want to retain an air of elitism around certain developers. Lots of people loved Diablo on PS1, and Torchlight on 360, and the console port of Diablo 3 will be very well received, and most likely an excellent product. Certainly it will be different, and yes, people want that, require it even, Diablo needs fairly precise attack positioning, but the game's qualities will translate.
Invisible War is shit on Xbox, so I don't really see the logic of that inclusion, it's shit on both platforms, it wasn't an excellent game that lost it's quality in transition, I don't think that's the generally accepted belief either. Snake Eater is an interesting one, there are significant performance issues with that port, there are perception issues with the scope in regards to handhelds too for many people, myself included. Can you realistically say PO is a better portable game though? I realize it would be difficult to hold an objective stance on that, but it was (as far as I know) convinced specifically for the PSP.
Not all games can be moved to any interface of course, what makes people enjoy WiiBoxing would, without question, be lost moving it to almost any other form of interface. But I would say for the most part, great games are great despite the interface. All a joypad, or a keyboard/mouse, or a Wiimote, or a Kinect is trying to do is allow you to interact with the simulation with as little cognitive dissonance they can muster. There are even games which have been notably improved with movements to different interfaces, FPS's initially played solely with a keyboard were instantly improved with mouse implementation, improved further with full mouse look.
The system may well be capable of many touches and various sweeping motions, things that make it fairly unique in terms of gaming devices, however the most loved games have in common simplicity of control. Angry Birds could perfectly be played on a mouse, Jetpack Joyride could be played on anything people game on. The chances are, if this game is impossible on another platform, it's too involved to be great for the form factor itself.
Embracing everything a platform offers is honorable, but it's also sophomoric.
bonesmccoy
Banned
But isn't it the enthusiasts who clamour to purchase these latest and greatest smartphones? The normal consumer may collect one from the buffet of choices, but they only really move on to a new model once their old one has stopped working (manufactured obsolescence?), just like they do when their home computer/car/tv/random product starts to fail. Put another way, smartphones are for most people mere appliances.
The iPad is not a smartphone. It's a netbook without a keyboard, a touch screen and a bigger battery. The first iPad was a low-risk affair using straight-on smartphone hardware, yes, but with the iPad 2 Apple made better use of the available volume and TDP. The power increase of the new iPad is pathetic in comparison: the GPU power was doubled (probably matching the GPU on the Vita), but running at native res would require quadruple the fillrate.
Also, memory bandwidth is hardly increasing in mobile space, and this is the crucial difference between a shitty and a godlike GPU. Clever tricks like deferred rasterizing and unified shader processors can only push things so far.
Since it uses a completely custom OS, it can use ARM instead of X86 and do away with several standard PC components found in netbooks and feature a slightly smaller motherboard and increased battery life. But don't be fooled: the raw specs are still in netbook-range, regardless of retina-display or not.
However, the iPad gets games made specifically for it's hardware, so they can both look and run better than PC games running on netbooks. I'm sure any NVidia netbook would be able to run Infinity Blade 2 at 30fps 1080p if it were given the chance, but nobody makes PC games like that.
No, they'll switch phones when the carrier offers an upgrade. If I sign up for a free iPhone 3GS today, and in 18-24 months my carrier says, "Hey, you can now get a free iPhone 4S," I'm switching right up. The iPhone 3GS was the 3rd most popular iPhone bought last quarter, and it's not enthusiasts gobbling up those sales.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Haha, he talks about some of our arguments in this thread.
The iPad is still pretty indicative of where smartphones are going, I'd say.
I don't think tablets and phones will really cut it as enthusiast gaming devices for a long while, but it will be interesting to see what happens to PC gaming when most people won't own a desktop or even a laptop.
I can already play back HD video on a smartphone. My HTPC is from 2007 and it plays back HD content without a hitch.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Cool video. So how much of the game is actually done already? He was talking about things being up and running and it confused me.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Well he keeps describing it as a Metroidvania style of exploration, and the trailer only showed one room that looked finished as far as I could tell. He mentioned they were working on another and that we might get to see it, so I'm guessing they're still fairly early on in creating the actual content.
Anyways, they breached 90k today. I attribute the boost to the plug from Penny Arcade:
Ryan, I really think it's not too late. If you want to make the Kickstarter goal just give us the good news about the platforms!
They're saying on FB that they have a "BIG" announcement tomorrow. It can only be what you're referring to right? I'm genuinely excited to hear it.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Fingers crossed.
I (and a few others) have said this before, but I think you're being very naive.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I don't recall anyone telling me that before. If it had launched as a PC game from the beginning I'm certain it would have made the goal on the strength of its pitch and the uniqueness of the concept. If something like FTL can pull 200k and if The Banner Saga could pull over 700k, I see no reason to believe that Republique could not do 500k. The level of interest is high. They had a million hits on the page, media coverage across the web, and this thread is packed with posts saying they want the game, just not on the present platform.
I'm under no illusions about the uphill battle the project will now face, especially since a lot of people have already written it off as a phone game. The well has been poisoned to some extent, no doubt. The clock is also running out. However the simple fact is that if they want any hope of making their goal, a PC announcement is required. The sooner, the better. And yes, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that they can still make their goal.
Father_Brain
Banned
Yup.
I'll just repeat myself: I like the concept of a story-driven stealth game with abstracted tap-and-swipe controls - I put in my $10, after all - but I don't believe there's $500,000 worth of an audience clamoring for that, regardless of platform. PC is simply not the only common denominator of the other successful six/seven-figure gaming Kickstarters.
Agree to disagree. One can never prove or disprove a counterfactual, but I think it would have failed precisely because of the uniqueness of the concept.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Would you have foreseen $200,000 worth of interest in FTL? $700,000 worth of interest in The Banner Saga? Two things sell on Kickstarter: uniqueness and nostalgia.
Father_Brain
Banned
Admittedly, probably not in both cases, but both titles (particularly TBS) adhere far more closely to existing genres that have already proven popular on PC than does Republique.
I'm a funder. I honestly hope I'm wrong on this one.