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[A Human Becoming]

PC version finally got me to pledge. Still think this game won't meet its goal.

 

[djplaeskool]

This is an interesting development indeed, almost like a social experiment.
Though the trend is moving upward overall, as I've refreshed a number times over the past 10-15 minutes, some people are indeed pulling their pledges.

 

[MrCunningham]

Thread title still technically inaccurate - the game is not $100K funded yet.

I think I just saw the amount pledged decrease from about $98,040 to $97,940. Some people are really pissed.

Now it's $97,955, btw.

It's like there's an invisible barrier preventing this game from crossing $100,000. I never expected there to be a backlash from the people who wanted this as an iOS exclusive. But lets face it, when it was an iOS exclusive, it probably wasn't going to get funded anyway, because there wasn't enough interest. If Sacrificing iOS exclusivity is required to generate more interest for this title to get it made, then that is what the developers are going to have to do.

Do I think this project will hit its target? I don't know.... It will be interesting to see what happens. But this will be an interesting study in crowd sourcing, for sure.

This is an interesting development indeed, almost like a social experiment.

That thought popped into my mind too. It really has turned into a social experiment.

 

[Mrbob]

PC version finally got me to pledge. Still think this game won't meet its goal.

I doubt it will either. This seems more like an experiment to gauge the interest in a pc version. I wanted a pc version all along, and we got it, so I'll put my money where my mouth is. Everyone else should too if they are interested in this project.

 

[Omikaru]

I think anyone who kills their pledge on this game just because it's coming to another platform is ridiculous. I mean sure, if it suddenly soars past its goal and you were never 100% behind the game in the first place, by all means, but jeez, talk about being a fanboy and throwing your toys out of the pram. The game still has a long way to go, and if you want this kind of game on your iOS device you should keep your pledge.

It's been a while since I've seen people cry bitter tears over a game going multiplatform, but it still happens.

Also, just noticed they added a $20 option to get both the iOS and PC or Mac version. Upping my pledge yet again...

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Now you have my attention.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's like there's an invisible barrier preventing this game from crossing $100,000. I never expected there to be a backlash from the people who wanted this as an iOS exclusive. But lets face it, when it was an iOS exclusive, it probably wasn't going to get funded anyway, because there wasn't enough interest. If Sacrificing iOS exclusivity is required to generate more interest for this title to get it made, then that is what the developers are going to have to do.

Do I think this project will hit its target? I don't know.... It will be interesting to see what happens. But this will be an interesting study in crowd sourcing, for sure.

Like I said here, due to their initial stance, I'm not sure that announcing new platforms is going to make anyone too excited. It only makes sense that the people who initially did back it (those who really wanted a great iOS game) are now worried about the game being compromised.

I think anyone who kills their pledge on this game just because it's coming to another platform is ridiculous. I mean sure, if it suddenly soars past its goal and you were never 100% behind the game in the first place, by all means, but jeez, talk about being a fanboy and throwing your toys out of the pram. The game still has a long way to go, and if you want this kind of game on your iOS device you should keep your pledge.

It's been a while since I've seen people cry bitter tears over a game going multiplatform, but it still happens.

Also, just noticed they added a $20 option to get both the iOS and PC or Mac version. Upping my pledge yet again...

I'm not sure it's fair to call it fanboyism, but that's up to you.

They positioned this as a game that had to be on iOS. A game that would finally make people realize that real, good games could work on iOS. They wanted to stick to their guns and take full advantage of the platform. That was the pitch pretty much. People who bought into it wanted that. Some people who didn't buy in liked the setting, but weren't interested in the platform.

Now it's been announced as coming to PC and Mac. What are fans of those platforms supposed to expect? A barebones port job of the iOS game? We know they are primarily interested in making a killer iOS game. What are the iOS fans supposed to think? Now a portion of their pledge will go to making versions they don't give a damn about which could very easily compromise the original vision.

 

[zroid]

I never expected there to be a backlash from the people who wanted this as an iOS exclusive. But lets face it, when it was an iOS exclusive, it probably wasn't going to get funded anyway, because there wasn't enough interest. If Sacrificing iOS exclusivity is required to generate more interest for this title, then that is what the developers are going to have to do.

This almost makes me think these people were just cynically "pledging" money, without any actual interest, all the while assuming the game wouldn't get funded. Now they think it has a chance and are pulling out before they wind up lose their precious dollars.

Also, just noticed they added a $20 option to get both the iOS and PC or Mac version

Good catch

 

[FoneBone]

Like I said here, due to their initial stance, I'm not sure that announcing new platforms is going to make anyone too excited. It only makes sense that the people who initially did back it (those who really wanted a great iOS game) are now worried about the game being compromised.

Without being clear about how they expect to add more platforms (and PC-exclusive features) without raising the goal, I don't think that's an unreasonable concern.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Without being clear about how they expect to add more platforms (and PC-exclusive features) without raising the goal, I don't think that's an unreasonable concern.

They've said already that they're going to use venture capital to make up any difference. They will have to rely on venture capital completely if they fail to make the Kickstarter goal, but in that case they might have to give up the IP or some creative control. If this doesn't make the goal, we all lose. And that includes those few iOS gamers who were actually interested in the game itself and not in hawking more Apple products.

 

[MrCunningham]

Like I said here, due to their initial stance, I'm not sure that announcing new platforms is going to make anyone too excited. It only makes sense that the people who initially did back it (those who really wanted a great iOS game) are now worried about the game being compromised.

I don't see why it would be compromised as long as they keep the iOS version as the lead platform. They are developing this on the unity engine, which already supports Mac and PC. So porting this game won't be an issue. As for the controls, I would imagine that they would keep the iOS version how they planned it and just adjust the PC and Mac versions accordingly.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Like I said here, due to their initial stance, I'm not sure that announcing new platforms is going to make anyone too excited. It only makes sense that the people who initially did back it (those who really wanted a great iOS game) are now worried about the game being compromised.

And it's not as if that's a phony reason for concern either. Other (successful) kickstarters have only announced expansions to other platforms after certain milestones have been met. Diluting the project at this stage behooves an almost cynical reaction.

Zeeroid, it's probably more that these types (if they exist) were actually on board with the original pitch, and are unhappy with the desperation move. I mean, we just had the head of the company in this thread spend the last week defending the iOS decision, flatly stating that designing this game specifically for that platform was the cornerstone of the project.

They should cancel this kickstarter, do a serious internal review of the product (ie, decide what exactly they want to do with it), and relaunch a few months down the road.

 

[chickdigger802]

upped my $10 to $20.



Got a pc and an ios device.


gaf 1%

 

[PapaJustify]

This PC/Mac thing is a sad testimonial of the gaming industry.

I can see why Payton is backstabbing his own priciples to get the game on the way, he invested his life-savings in. It is just sad to see, that instead of embracing every possible new gaming platform, many gamers working corruptingly against it...

 

[Omikaru]

Now it's been announced as coming to PC and Mac. What are fans of those platforms supposed to expect? A barebones port job of the iOS game? We know they are primarily interested in making a killer iOS game. What are the iOS fans supposed to think? Now a portion of their pledge will go to making versions they don't give a damn about which could very easily compromise the original vision.

I think it's been made abundantly clear that the PC and iOS versions will be separate games with separate design. It's not like they're suddenly going to switch to PC as lead platform and downport to iOS.

On the contrary, if you look at the delivery dates, the PC version is September 2013, the iOS version is June 2013. If anything, the PC version is going to be an altered form of the original vision, not the other way around.

Anyone who loves gaming should be enthusiastic that a title they're pumped for will be available to more people.

 

[slaughterking]

This PC/Mac thing is a sad testimonial of the gaming industry.

I can see why Payton is backstabbing his own priciples to get the game on the way, he invested his life-savings in. It is just sad to see, that instead of embracing every possible new gaming platform, many gamers working corruptingly against it...

You are, like, completely contradicting yourself.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

upped my $10 to $20.



Got a pc and an ios device.


gaf 1%

I only have self respect and a PC.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This PC/Mac thing is a sad testimonial of the gaming industry.

I can see why Payton is backstabbing his own priciples to get the game on the way, he invested his life-savings in. It is just sad to see, that instead of embracing every possible new gaming platform, many gamers working corruptingly against it...

Why is it the responsibility of the average gamer to support platforms they don't think are very good? I've spent a lot of money on iOS games in an attempt to find one that isn't a pain to play. To me, they just about universally suck and aren't enjoyable experiences. I don't like playing games on my phone and I'm sure there are many more like me.

This Kickstarter is asking people like me to put up my own money so Camoflauj can try to prove me wrong. It's a tough proposition.

I think it's been made abundantly clear that the PC and iOS versions will be separate games with separate design. It's not like they're suddenly going to switch to PC as lead platform and downport to iOS.

On the contrary, if you look at the delivery dates, the PC version is September 2013, the iOS version is June 2013. If anything, the PC version is going to be an altered form of the original vision, not the other way around.

Anyone who loves gaming should be enthusiastic that a title they're pumped for will be available to more people.

Interesting. Doesn't sound very compelling for PC/Mac owners in my opinion.

 

[outunderthestars]

Dear God, this Kickstarter campaign has turned into a train wreck.

 

[szaromir]

But the really cool story was written specifically for iOS devices? Does it mean now it's going to have some new inferior story dumb downed for PC/Mac users?

 

[PapaJustify]

You are, like, completely contradicting yourself.

Nah, but I can see that it looks like it. Of course PC/Mac as even more platforms is welcoming for gamers, but the fact is - and many comments in this thread make that clear - that a lot of people are working against iOS (or Android) as a serious gaming platform.

 

[volturnus]

But the really cool story was written specifically for iOS devices? Does it mean now it's going to have some new inferior story dumb downed for PC/Mac users?

If he still believes in what he said, it will have to be a different game because of PC/Mac.

 

[Painraze]

Steamworks or bust

 

[Tokubetsu]

This PC/Mac thing is a sad testimonial of the gaming industry.

I can see why Payton is backstabbing his own priciples to get the game on the way, he invested his life-savings in. It is just sad to see, that instead of embracing every possible new gaming platform, many gamers working corruptingly against it...

What?

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

But the really cool story was written specifically for iOS devices? Does it mean now it's going to have some new inferior story dumb downed for PC/Mac users?

They're rewriting the PC version so that the PC version will be tailored for the platform just like the iOS version is written for touch devices. No need for snark.

If he still believes in what he said, it will have to be a different game because of PC/Mac.

That's exactly what he's promising.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Dear God, this Kickstarter campaign has turned into a train wreck.

'Turned'? This is the fix.

 

[zroid]

This PC/Mac thing is a sad testimonial of the gaming industry.

I can see why Payton is backstabbing his own priciples to get the game on the way, he invested his life-savings in. It is just sad to see, that instead of embracing every possible new gaming platform, many gamers working corruptingly against it...

Uh, what principles are those exactly? He's still making the game for iOS, or hadn't you noticed?

Did you ever just consider that there are a lot of gamers who don't own iOS devices?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nah, but I can see that it looks like it. Of course PC/Mac as even more platforms is welcoming for gamers, but the fact is - and many comments in this thread make that clear - that a lot of people are working against iOS (or Android) as a serious gaming platform.

Or, in reality-land, a lot of people have played a good amount of games on iOS and Android phones and have come to the conclusion that the platforms just aren't good for gaming.

They're rewriting the PC version so that the PC version will be tailored for the platform just like the iOS version is written for touch devices. No need for snark.

Sounds like that's a separate project for a separate Kickstarter to me. Asking for a whole lot of good will from PC/Mac owners as-is. "Yeah dudes, just help me fund my dream and I'll get around to you eventually."

 

[Corto]

But the really cool story was written specifically for iOS devices? Does it mean now it's going to have some new inferior story dumb downed for PC/Mac users?

When I read that bit of "story specifically written for iOS" I thought of phone audio/text messages that we would receive from the girl through the day. Maybe they could even implement something with the geo location features of the device. Those must be rethought for the PC.

 

[volturnus]

Nah, but I can see that it looks like it. Of course PC/Mac as even more platforms is welcoming for gamers, but the fact is - and many comments in this thread make that clear - that a lot of people are working against iOS (or Android) as a serious gaming platform.

I see, if people do not support a platform it means they're actively working against it? What made the Saturn fail, then? A worldwide conspiracy?

 

[indigo-cyclops]

For PC? I'm definitely interested. But now I'm working against iOS?

 

[MrCunningham]

I think it's been made abundantly clear that the PC and iOS versions will be separate games with separate design. It's not like they're suddenly going to switch to PC as lead platform and downport to iOS.

I actually missed that part. I assumed it was just going to be an up-port of the iOS game with some upped textures and increased geometry and a few extra bells and whistles in the lighting/ shader department. So, In a way, the iOS version will still be exclusive.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

We have already raised more money today than since Day 3, and we are presently on track to outdo that as well.

 

[outunderthestars]

'Turned'? This is the fix.

By changing the design and scope of the project, and asking for money for a game that you won't deliver until Fall of 2013?

In the end it won't matter because the KS looks like it is going to fail.

 

[zroid]

I seriously never could have in my wildest dreams expected this announcement to actually generate controversy. The amount of sheer cynicism here is mindblowing.

Welcome to NeoGAF.

 

[sikkinixx]

Kinda lame. I hope the iOS version doesn't suffer.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I couldn't find your post to quote, but I tried. So this will have to do, but I disagree with many of your assertions. You're assuming the general public who help kickstart these games actually recognize not only the teams but the talent behind them. This is bogus. Most people have no idea who the people are that make their games or why they should care. Most can't even appreciate what they have to offer. All they really have to go off of is an idea.

Proving yourself from the bottom-up can help for the hardcore audience. For example let's say Naughty Dog or Epic tried to kickstart a couple of their projects. Wouldn't ever happen, but I'm sure they'd easily reach their goals regardless of the concept. They're a well known studio, and the label sells a lot. If someone who remembers Uncharted 2 happens upon Naughty Dog's page, they might be more willing to kickstart the project.

The problem comes in when you assume a team that has a certain reputation is the same team that is now kickstarting that specific project. Teams don't stay the same. People leave, quit, resign, whatever. There's all sorts of factors that can change the dynamic of a team. Often times with new projects comes new members. The teams are generally never the same.

For instance people will cheer when Persona 5 is announced, but what if the director nor writer of Persona 3/4 was on board. The vast majority of people wouldn't care. They'd probably have someone new at the helm. Just take Zwei as an example. Shinji Mikami is a God, yet he's only the executive producer for the game yet people are celebrating as if he was the director himself. No, some other guy is directing Zwei, a relatively new guy. Just like the director for Bayonetta (more to do with his affiliation than directing credentials, which were insanely good), yet we all know how that turned out (one of the best action games of all-time).

So yeah, a label helps, but don't kid yourself thinking that people care about the staff. It's a sad truth. But with more exposure comes more appreciation. In other words, give these guys a chance. They might be green, relatively speaking, but they deserve the chance to prove themselves, especially with such a great idea. I love how artistic the project sounds. I love their sources of inspiration and their focus. The philosophy is mostly align with my own, and I think that is enough to drop at least $10 on.

The ambition is half the fight, IMO. You might be one of the best teams ever and are well known for meeting your deadlines, excellence in engineering, and all sorts of other technicalities, but if you don't have a great idea. It's worthless. Take Gears of War for example, the game is really fun and brilliantly designed if you ignore everything that's being said throughout the game. The story was so bad. The dialogue even worse. It was one of the first games I considered muting my TV for--and turning off subtitles! I was so annoyed. How could a game be so terrible in terms of writing and execution? My enjoyment of the game dropped considerably, that's how much story, writing, and ideas can affect a story.

And you're going to find as this market expands for the same truth to hold as well for millions of other people. People who read books, watch movies, and/or listen to music have the same expectations. The idea or the ambition is just as important as the game mechanics. All of these aesthetics contribute to the overall enjoyment of said game/book/movie/tv show/song etc. Game mechanics mean nothing without a nicely laid out story/idea/group of characters. For some, I suppose the mechanics is everything, which would be why games like Gears of War sell so well, but keep in mind that there are others out there that completely disagree and have different expectations. So don't act like the problem lies in the philosophy. Most people will not notice or care, in fact, if people did know I'd bet the majority would love it.

No, I'm sure the problem has more to do with exposure, the typical iOS customer not being accustomed to such games or what they have to offer, etc. Anyways, I said my piece. I probably come across as a little crazy, but I'm an aspiring designer as well so game design philosophy is a pretty big deal to me.

/rant

Also worth noting, the campaign received over $7,000 in pledges over the last three days, I think... going off primarily estimations. But that seems to be a lot better than the week before. Maybe it's just me, but it looks like the project is getting a lot of traction now.

In my defense, I was talking about labels as much as I was about specific staff. If you're talking to me, I'll be much more interested in what the lead gameplay designer of RE4 did for Bayonetta, but I suspect many won't care. But he wasn't the label. The label, in that case, was a mix of 'Clover', 'Ex-Capcom', 'Mikami' and 'Kamiya'. Each of these are only relevant to, I don't know, a few tens of thousands of people? But that seems to be the audience for this sort of kickstarter at the moment, discarding other seemingly random and (for the sake of this discussion) trivial parties, obviously.

I think Tim Schafer being used as the 'label' for DFA meant something. Many, many people remember the point and click adventures of old. To a perhaps less-interested audience, the concept of "games from a simpler time" resonates with them (hence 80,000 backers). The Kickstarter video and pledge Double Fine presented did EVERYTHING IT COULD to quickly form a mental connection between that feeling of nostalgia and Tim Schafer. And, hey, he's earnt it, so good for them. It gave that feeling both a face and a cause to rally behind. The 'team', as I might have referred to it in my previous post, or the 'label', as I'm now referring to it in this post, means everything.

I don't think Ryan has that kind of pull. The enthusiast crowd can't really specifically link him with anything other than MGS (and it's never been super clear what his input was, although by all accounts it wasn't trivial, I'm not trying to personally attack him here). They can't link him to a 'label' they can instantly trust. That's why the bottom-up approach to this pitch may have won more people over (see my previous post).

I'm not sure if this covers your post in its entirety, but hopefully I've managed to clarify, a little. I might be a little bit more cynical than you when it comes to ambition.

edit: this might be a failing on my part, but in today's industry, it seems to me like new ideas are a dime a dozen. The most awful games can have a wonderful seed of an idea. 'Ideas' and context (or story, if you want) are things that I believe -- given an efficient, robust workcycle -- can implemented at almost any time up until relatively late in the project. Starting with a story is a really weird, dangerous thing, from my perspective. That said, I'll readily admit that it could be my own insecurity staring me in the face. I don't think it is, though.

 

[Corto]

Kinda lame. I hope the iOS version doesn't suffer.

This move can save it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I seriously never could have in my wildest dreams expected this announcement to actually generate controversy. The amount of sheer cynicism here is mindblowing.

Welcome to NeoGAF.

Welcome to the world. I honestly don't see how anyone could not be cynical about this unless they were just excited past reason for this project.

 

[Alexios]

If this was done sooner I'd have pledged but I had to go and upgrade to the boxed Wasteland 2 copy and alongside the other Kickstarters now I'm out of gaming cash...

Wonder why the PC version pledge is more money than iOS though... At least it better be every bit of game as any version, not any less alongside being "special"...

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Welcome to the world. I honestly don't see how anyone could not be cynical about this unless they were just excited past reason for this project.

You weren't happy when there was no PC version, you're not happy when there is a PC version even if it's specially rewritten for you, man there's just no pleasing you.

 

[outunderthestars]

I seriously never could have in my wildest dreams expected this announcement to actually generate controversy. The amount of sheer cynicism here is mindblowing.

Welcome to NeoGAF.

How would it not? You're telling me that they spent six months working on the concept of an ios game, the Kickstarter campaign fails, so in a week or so they somehow come up with an entirely different PC version? And somehow this new, magically appearing game is going to be worth a damn when they now have to complete two games in 16 months?

You know how people keep wondering what the first KS game disaster will be? Well, wonder no more, because this is it.

 

[volturnus]

If this was done sooner I'd have pledged but I had to go and upgrade to the boxed Wasteland 2 copy and alongside the other Kickstarters now I'm out of gaming cash...

Starlight Inception sends regards

 

[Graphics Horse]

We have already raised more money today than since Day 3, and we are presently on track to outdo that as well.

However each remaining day needs to average out like Day 1 for this to breach the target.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You weren't happy when there was no PC version, you're not happy when there is a PC version even if it's specially rewritten for you, man there's just no pleasing you.

No. I thought the setting/concept looked cool, but wasn't happy with the platform choice. However, that was the choice they made and at least they were devoted to it. Trying to appease people by announcing a vague promise of a PC/Mac version far in the future with very few details doesn't necessarily instill a whole lot of confidence in me personally. I could see how it would discourage a lot of people who backed it initially when Camoflauj was sticking to their guns, too.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

How would it not? You're telling me that they spent six months working on the concept of an ios game, the Kickstarter campaign fails, so in a week or so they somehow come up with an entirely different PC version? And somehow this new, magically appearing game is going to be worth a damn when they now have to complete two games in 16 months?

You obviously haven't been following the debate in this thread very closely, but they announced this for Steam ages ago but then decided to focus on iOS first. We changed their minds. That version was always under consideration, it did not magically spring forth like Minerva.

 

[zroid]

Welcome to the world. I honestly don't see how anyone could not be cynical about this unless they were just excited past reason for this project.

I just... don't... understand...

Step 1: Start a Kickstarter with a great concept for a game on a platform with promise but without much appeal for the Kickstarter crowd.

Step 2: Do your best to reach your goal, but finally admit that you need to rethink your strategy.

Step 3: Give some of your most ardent supporters exactly what they were hoping for, while still pledging to complete the project as it was originally envisioned.

Step 4: Wild backlash from people for.... some reason???

I am losing my faith in humanity by the minute here. I don't know if their goals will be met. It's a tough road, even with PC and Mac versions. But for people to actually begrudge that fact? What?

 

[Alexios]

Starlight Inception sends regards

No, not that one, sorry. Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns and FTL, for now. But yeah, the big one was the Wasteland 2 $65 ($15 for shipping, ugh, most expensive, and first boxed copy, game in a while). Starlight hasn't convinced me but I'm sure they'll reach their goal and I'll get it if it ends up good. I'm glad it's not just multi player too.

 

[Corto]

How would it not? You're telling me that they spent six months working on the concept of an ios game, the Kickstarter campaign fails, so in a week or so they somehow come up with an entirely different PC version? And somehow this new, magically appearing game is going to be worth a damn when they now have to complete two games in 16 months?

You know how people keep wondering what the first KS game disaster will be? Well, wonder no more, because this is it.

You're being over dramatic. Kickstarter projects fail to meet their goal every day. That is not the mythic Kickstarter disaster that people throw around in these threads. Some people argue that there's nothing to hold these companies responsible for this money, and that they can deliver a bad product at the end or no product at all and waste the excess money in hookers and blow. If this KS doesn't meet its goal, it's a disaster to the team not for the pledgers as the money is only taken from us if the goal is met.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You obviously haven't been following the debate in this thread very closely, but they announced this for Steam ages ago but then decided to focus on iOS first. We changed their minds. That version was always under consideration, it did not magically spring forth like Minerva.

I must have missed that. I do remember reading a whole lot of PR speak along the lines of "We'd love to have the game everywhere someday." and "We want this in the hands of as many players as possible." etc.