Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I just lol’ed out loud.
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I just lol’ed out loud.
HDM
Member
JSoup
Banned
Gonna be honest, I figured the point behind getting such a huge loan was to then refinance it at a bank, then pay it off in one lump payment.
Barry Burton
Member
More walls o' text to not read:
(I hope these people aren't lawyers, owing to what they consider "facts" and "proof")
So in Nepenthe's post, she is giving a timeline of events from her perspective.
This is my timeline (in CEST timezone, might be different days for different people). Note that this represents only MY perception of events, I am not a representative for TransEra or trans people in general. The only reason I'm doing this is because we keep getting portrayed as mean bullies or something, like we're a toxic element on this site, the whole trans community like it's a monolith, by people in this very thread, and staff is just standing by letting it happen. And since events from the discord are being brought up by staff again, I feel like I have to respond to that, because if I don't we'll keep being portrayed as troublemakers and bullies. The only reason I talk about offsite interactions is because staff has brought up these interactions first. We were going to keep everyone's privacy about their offsite activity away from this, but if we are doing that while staff doesn't, we can't defend ourselves. And to be clear, that's what this is, a defense.
EDIT: And also, to clarify, I would never equate what's going on here to police brutality against black people. From the conversations in our discord, I think everyone sides with Nepenthe on this. The punisher person was not trans and neither was the MLK quoting person. Several of us reported the MLK person and moved on (as we're supposed to not engage with trolls) since they had only 7 posts and were assumed to be troll account. Aside from that, I completely agree that equations between this situation and police brutality and racism should not be made. We're on your side here, intersectional solidarity all the way.
For full context, I will have to line out a few events leading up to this. I think with this all in mind the story of "TransEra are toxic and bullied Sophia into quitting" will hopefully be deflated. I'm not writing this from memory.
Pre-timeline: Ketkat ban, AsianEra discussion thread and "Takeaways" thread, resulting AsianEra exodus/bans, Shamima Begum thread and MuslimEra exodus/bans, and probably a whole lot more that are not on my radar right now. Not going into detail on any of those.
1st of November, Sophia joins the TransEra discord. She is there as a trans person, not as a mod.
30th of November, Aby is banned for this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/no...and-advance-lgbtq-rights.335045/post-52769529
On discord, people talk about this ban in the meta channel, without addressing Sophia at all. Sophia responds anyway with an extremely passive aggressive post starting with the word "sigh" and ending with the sentence "I don't mean to be blunt, but y'all do realize you have one of your own as an admin, right?", so she clearly sees her position in the staff team as an all around defense of said staff team against any of the issues we've been facing. Someone answers "yes, and people know they have a right to express their opinions [...] Aby is just one more [ban of trans people getting upset about bad faith posters]". Sophia answers with the word "sigh" and leaves the discord immediately. So we're starting off here with a complete dismissal of all our issues surrounding Era, because I guess having trans staff makes you immune against any criticism? Personal comment now in hindsight: a discord server exclusively having trans people on it apparently doesn't get that same immunity (and shouldn't, but staff shouldn't either).
4th of December, a TransEra member sends in a ban appeal after four months and it gets denied with a message basically saying (paraphrased) "we don't believe your apology because you keep attacking the staff and spreading misinformation", which is a bit strange because the only place she could have been "attacking the staff and spreading misinformation" would have been outside of Era. Again, she had been banned for 4(!) months at this point. This leads to some suspicions, some joking some half serious, that there must be some moles in her discords. The ban appeal reads sincere and could have been answered with something neutral like "we don't re-examine bans this soon" or something, instead of something dripping with contempt and resentment.
Just in general, for weeks leading up to the 6th (?) of December, staff does not believe trans people and others who point out that Black Chamber, the creator of the Cyberpunk OTs (who has been banned for bigotry before) is a bad faith poster ("Please just say that the transphobia around this game won't be ignored" - "Everybody is welcome
") and believes him instead. During this period a whole lot of trans people and cis allies are banned for voicing their frustrations at this situation. There's a lot more stuff going on like him lying about Kyuji threatening to derail his thread and shit like that (where again, staff sided with him).
6th of December, Sophia writes this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/cd...-making-excuses-for-them.307474/post-53318362
Black Chamber is supposed to take a voluntary 1 month ban to appease the people speaking up about him. Some TransEra members and allies express their worry that the expected result of this will be that he will be seen as some kind of martyr for the reasonable, polite centrists (a lot of whom we have identified and reported as bad faith posters), a clumsy but essentially innocent lamb who had to be sacrificed to appease the unreasonable SJWs. "They're letting him martyr himself". Which people in the thread use as an opportunity to dogwhistle about what a standup guy he is and how it sucks that he's being "harassed".
7th (?) of December, Black Chamber turns out to be a nazi. The only way this could be proven was by someone finding his twitter account, so this is still not because staff believes minorities when they hear a dogwhistle for the 100th time, but just because they could not keep denying it. B-Dubs writes this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/cd...-making-excuses-for-them.307474/post-53342845
He specifically claims that the previous accusations where only that he was a shill for CDPR, not a bad faith poster in general (again, staff not listening to trans voices). And there is no apology to all the people who were banned before, just a promise that the bans in the OT will be reviewed. A whole lot of trans people and cis allies are pointing out, in this thread and others, that this is incident is emblematic - this is what they experience all the time on Era, Era staff prioritizing civility over minority voices, and this time, to the point of literally VOUCHING for a bigot despite his ban history. These people are pointing out that this has happened with AsianEra and MuslimEra before. A lot of them, again, are banned for hostility.
Later on the 7th of December, there is an apology from staff to trans Era members. B-Dubs writes:
"I know it must be incredibly frustrating for the members who raised concerns about Black Chamber that not only were they not heeded, he turned out to be even worse than anyone knew - but many of you clearly suspected, and we should've listened. This is especially true in regards to the trans members of the community, who openly voiced their concerns and were talked down to, instead of being heard. We know the community relies on us to catch this kind of thing, and in this case we fucked up, plain and simple. Again, I apologize for that."
A lot of trans people have given in to cynicism at this point and while they appreciate the apology, what they would like to see are systematic changes, or at least the admittance that this is a systematic problem, and that they have messed up before. For example, everything around the AsianEra takeaway thread. And the fact that this very thread is mostly unknown to the community at large by hiding it in the announcements section. And people who were banned in the confrontation with and about Black Chamber never got an apology.
- Also on the 7th of December, Sophia contacts the TransEra discord and wants to talk. A lot of users are sceptical about this, because of the timeline I've laid out here including the "sigh" moment. But we are fine with having a conversation despite that. She lets us know that she has handed in her resignation for after these talks and that this mending of relations is important to her. The fact that she had already handed in her resignation could probably easily be verified by the staff members she sent it to. Any claims that Sophia was bullied into retirement are 100% incorrect. Either misinformed or a straight up lie. But who knows? Maybe Sophia told us she had handed in her resignation but then changed her mind and only handed it in after the talks? I wouldn't blame her for that. Regardless, it's being painted here as if there is a direct causal relation from the talks to Sophia quitting and that is just provably untrue.
I don't know what Sophia's plans for these talks were. She basically came in and said "sorry for the Black Chamber situation, what can I do to make it right?", and in my understanding, what TransEra wanted was for Sophia to understand the history of our issues surrounding moderation (civility over minority voices) and the forum biosphere that nourishes (bad faith posters and dogwhistling leading to bans for the people who call them out). This was important to many of us because of the disregard she had shown for our concerns around moderation during the "sigh" moment. We wanted her to understand that this was not an isolated incident. What happens in the beginning of these talks can in my view be generalized as: discord member brings up an issue (i.e. ban for hostility against someone dogwhistling) -> Sophia looks into it, says she agrees, but does not have the power to do anything about it. This is all couched in customer service de-escalation language which is grating to me personally because I had to use it in my former line of work, and I feel like the use of this language is manipulative. To be clear, I'm not accusing her of manipulation, it's just my personal association. Because we hear "I don't actually have that power", we ask for B-Dubs to join the talks. She says she messaged him but he's offline right now and she'll get back to us.
But again, Black Chamber wasn't the only issue, the situation was emblematic for how trans people are generally treated on Era. If we didn't care deeply about these issues, we wouldn't bother having these talks, right? And we're not a unified voice, we're a bunch of people who each have their own history. So for example, Ketkat's ban is brought up by several people, but that was not a sticking point for everyone, that was just another example for "trans person reacts to bad faith poster and gets banned for hostility". Ketkat herself, from the very beginning, expressed that she actually had no interest in being unbanned, because the forum had become such a hostile place towards her. And obviously it was never going to happen because of the contempt some staff members apparently are still carrying around. This is what was told to us by all three mods in these discussions: They didn't agree with the decision on the Ketkat ban, but there was nothing they could do because of "past grievances".
At some point the OT comes up because someone has to write it, right? (A lot of trans Era members would prefer a full on ban.) So a member of the discord offers to write it. It's pointed out that a staff member should post it so that the discord member won't be perceived as a token trans person, so that the thread won't be perceived as "all of TransEra signed off on this". In the end, Sophia as a staff member posts the OT, and the worry comes true. Example without linking the poster:
"Shout out to transEra for all the work they have put in to getting this together, voicing their thoughts, advocating for an inclusive forum and, through all the shit they have been given, still wanting people to have a space to discuss this game and issues."
Some TransEra members who were opposed to having an OT in the first place feel like this is an erasure of their opinion. Full disclosure, I'm one of them.
Alice joins discussions, and kind of misreads the room, trying to lighten up the mood, joking around etc., which is not perceived well, as it feels to some members like she is not taking the talks seriously. Again, not saying that she didn't, this is about perceptions.
Even with Alice in the talks, it overall doesn't change from "we hear you, we'll look into it, we agree it's an issue, we can't really change it but we'll do anything in our power to look into this for you". We were left completely in the dark if anything was actually happening, if other staff were contacted about anything, but we were going off the assumption that staff knew that these talks were happening, mostly because Sophia mentioned writing and sending emails to staff several times. Again, because we are hearing "we don't have that kind of power", we are asking for B-Dubs to join. Again, "that's a good idea, we'll see what we can do about getting him in here".
This goes on for 5 days.
On the 12th of December, one of us realizes that a problematic situation we had been reporting to staff over and over again, and that had been brought up in our talks, was resolved. The two mods in our discord didn't mention anything about it, so we asked, hey, that's cool, so these talks are going somewhere? We can have an impact with this? But we were told by one of the two , I quote, "I want to stress that this isn't because of anything said in here." and some more stuff that I can't mention because it would give away what the situation was about. In any case, we were treated as if we would take this "victory" and parade it around or something, but instead we were told to not bring it up in the discussion ever again, which was perceived as very hostile.
So people are upset. They're not attacking the mods, but they are responding to the tone with questions. "So you're saying you can't really change anything, and the one thing that changed for the better, we definitely didn't have an impact on? So why are we even bothering then?", that kind of thing.
At this point, Nepenthe joins the talks. She is apparently completely out of the loop and thought this all was just about Black Chamber? She says she was PM'ed by a random user (who is neither trans nor in the discord) about the Ketkat ban, and seems agitated over this and, as I understand it, in her eyes this is proof that the talks were leaked? This all is cause for confusion.
Sophia leaves the discord without further communication and we are told by Alice that this is for health reasons, and that she was thanking us for our time and giving her the space to work this out, nothing about how we were supposedly bullying her? Which makes it seem very disingenous to portray it as such. We never meant to make her feel bad and there was never any pushback from either of them.
After getting over the confusion (but seemingly Nepenthe still thinks we leaked that we were talking about Ketkat?), we go through the same cycle again. Member brings something up, Nepenthe looks into it, she says she'll see what she can do, turns out it's not in her power. But at least she's direct to us about Ketkat, saying there is no way that Ketkat will ever be on Era again. (Again, Ketkat never wanted to come back, but it would have been a symbolic gesture of good will because if the TransEra discord would be in agreement about one single thing, it's that Ketkat has been done dirty.) Again, because we are being told "I don't have that kind of power", we ask that B-Dubs join in the discussion. Again, "we'll see what we can do".
So at this point I say something snippish about hearing the same PR talk again, which was wrong and hotheaded of me. The reason that happened hours after the fact is that I was asleep, again, CEST timezone. I woke up to the 3rd mod captain out of 5 telling us they don't actually have any power, and I, like many others on the server, had had enough of this seemingly neverending cycle.
Nepenthe reacts to this by telling us to do what we need to do for the sake of our mental health regarding Era (which I personally read as "if you have issues with the way Era is, you might have a mental health issue") and that she's not going to "fucking beg anyone to stay", and that she won't stay in the discord to serve as a target for anyone's anger and frustration, thanks us for the invite and ends it with "Don't ping or quote me again".
So, some of us read this as targeted at me specifically (the don't ping or quote me again part), but others including the mods of the server read it as targeted against the whole server, "you" as in "all of you" and not as in "you, Hexe". This is probably informed by the frustration we have been going through for days at this point. Remember, the talks started on the 7th CEST, for me it is now the morning of the 14th. So, the server mods read Nepenthe's message as "these talks are over, just leave Era if you don't like it" so they remove the two remaining Era staff members (they only had access to the discussion channel) because the roles channel hasn't been functioning properly and we have new users coming in. (That's what I was told, I don't know how discord works.)
So now in hindsight, reading the posts by Poodlestrike, Sophia, Alice and now Nepenthe I think there are some things that the staff members took as attacks but were not meant as such:
- Sophia read our criticisms of how Era is moderated as us bullying and erasing her identity, which was never intended (nor did any one of us - two dozen or so who were active in the talks - read it this way), and if we had been told about it we would have apologized?
- Nepenthe read a user PM'ing her about Ketkat as proof that we were leaking content of the talks while in reality it was just a random cis user unrelated to TransEra who had no idea about the talks
- Alice read the removal of the two remaining staff members from the discord as an insult to the both of them, which was based on a misunderstanding of Nepenthe's last post
So, again, I want to emphasize what I wrote as a response to Nepenthe's last message in the discord (paraphrased a few words for context):
I hope everyone here realizes that we've spent a week in there with 3 out of 5 mod captains who have kept on saying the same stuff over and over again, that they agree with us but don't have any actual power. I think frustration and disillusionment are a very normal and healthy reaction to this. Catching some of that frustration is not really on a single staff member who was in there. We could have been told from the beginning that era staff including trans staff don't care about us (the people in the TransEra discord, again, 70+ people) enough to make actual changes or gestures beyond promises which consistently have been empty. In fact that was what most of us have been convinced of, some for a year or so, some longer. There are more trans people on our and the NB discord who have left era or have been permabanned for standing up for themselves ("history of hostility" is a meme there) than there are active posters. We have already been run off. Sophia is the one who made us think that staff might have an interest in mending relations, but apparently we've just been strung along for a week. All the while being completely left in the dark.
Not @ing Nepenthe because she told me not to.
This is my timeline (in CEST timezone, might be different days for different people). Note that this represents only MY perception of events, I am not a representative for TransEra or trans people in general. The only reason I'm doing this is because we keep getting portrayed as mean bullies or something, like we're a toxic element on this site, the whole trans community like it's a monolith, by people in this very thread, and staff is just standing by letting it happen. And since events from the discord are being brought up by staff again, I feel like I have to respond to that, because if I don't we'll keep being portrayed as troublemakers and bullies. The only reason I talk about offsite interactions is because staff has brought up these interactions first. We were going to keep everyone's privacy about their offsite activity away from this, but if we are doing that while staff doesn't, we can't defend ourselves. And to be clear, that's what this is, a defense.
EDIT: And also, to clarify, I would never equate what's going on here to police brutality against black people. From the conversations in our discord, I think everyone sides with Nepenthe on this. The punisher person was not trans and neither was the MLK quoting person. Several of us reported the MLK person and moved on (as we're supposed to not engage with trolls) since they had only 7 posts and were assumed to be troll account. Aside from that, I completely agree that equations between this situation and police brutality and racism should not be made. We're on your side here, intersectional solidarity all the way.
For full context, I will have to line out a few events leading up to this. I think with this all in mind the story of "TransEra are toxic and bullied Sophia into quitting" will hopefully be deflated. I'm not writing this from memory.
Pre-timeline: Ketkat ban, AsianEra discussion thread and "Takeaways" thread, resulting AsianEra exodus/bans, Shamima Begum thread and MuslimEra exodus/bans, and probably a whole lot more that are not on my radar right now. Not going into detail on any of those.
1st of November, Sophia joins the TransEra discord. She is there as a trans person, not as a mod.
30th of November, Aby is banned for this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/no...and-advance-lgbtq-rights.335045/post-52769529
On discord, people talk about this ban in the meta channel, without addressing Sophia at all. Sophia responds anyway with an extremely passive aggressive post starting with the word "sigh" and ending with the sentence "I don't mean to be blunt, but y'all do realize you have one of your own as an admin, right?", so she clearly sees her position in the staff team as an all around defense of said staff team against any of the issues we've been facing. Someone answers "yes, and people know they have a right to express their opinions [...] Aby is just one more [ban of trans people getting upset about bad faith posters]". Sophia answers with the word "sigh" and leaves the discord immediately. So we're starting off here with a complete dismissal of all our issues surrounding Era, because I guess having trans staff makes you immune against any criticism? Personal comment now in hindsight: a discord server exclusively having trans people on it apparently doesn't get that same immunity (and shouldn't, but staff shouldn't either).
4th of December, a TransEra member sends in a ban appeal after four months and it gets denied with a message basically saying (paraphrased) "we don't believe your apology because you keep attacking the staff and spreading misinformation", which is a bit strange because the only place she could have been "attacking the staff and spreading misinformation" would have been outside of Era. Again, she had been banned for 4(!) months at this point. This leads to some suspicions, some joking some half serious, that there must be some moles in her discords. The ban appeal reads sincere and could have been answered with something neutral like "we don't re-examine bans this soon" or something, instead of something dripping with contempt and resentment.
Just in general, for weeks leading up to the 6th (?) of December, staff does not believe trans people and others who point out that Black Chamber, the creator of the Cyberpunk OTs (who has been banned for bigotry before) is a bad faith poster ("Please just say that the transphobia around this game won't be ignored" - "Everybody is welcome
") and believes him instead. During this period a whole lot of trans people and cis allies are banned for voicing their frustrations at this situation. There's a lot more stuff going on like him lying about Kyuji threatening to derail his thread and shit like that (where again, staff sided with him).6th of December, Sophia writes this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/cd...-making-excuses-for-them.307474/post-53318362
Black Chamber is supposed to take a voluntary 1 month ban to appease the people speaking up about him. Some TransEra members and allies express their worry that the expected result of this will be that he will be seen as some kind of martyr for the reasonable, polite centrists (a lot of whom we have identified and reported as bad faith posters), a clumsy but essentially innocent lamb who had to be sacrificed to appease the unreasonable SJWs. "They're letting him martyr himself". Which people in the thread use as an opportunity to dogwhistle about what a standup guy he is and how it sucks that he's being "harassed".
7th (?) of December, Black Chamber turns out to be a nazi. The only way this could be proven was by someone finding his twitter account, so this is still not because staff believes minorities when they hear a dogwhistle for the 100th time, but just because they could not keep denying it. B-Dubs writes this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/cd...-making-excuses-for-them.307474/post-53342845
He specifically claims that the previous accusations where only that he was a shill for CDPR, not a bad faith poster in general (again, staff not listening to trans voices). And there is no apology to all the people who were banned before, just a promise that the bans in the OT will be reviewed. A whole lot of trans people and cis allies are pointing out, in this thread and others, that this is incident is emblematic - this is what they experience all the time on Era, Era staff prioritizing civility over minority voices, and this time, to the point of literally VOUCHING for a bigot despite his ban history. These people are pointing out that this has happened with AsianEra and MuslimEra before. A lot of them, again, are banned for hostility.
Later on the 7th of December, there is an apology from staff to trans Era members. B-Dubs writes:
"I know it must be incredibly frustrating for the members who raised concerns about Black Chamber that not only were they not heeded, he turned out to be even worse than anyone knew - but many of you clearly suspected, and we should've listened. This is especially true in regards to the trans members of the community, who openly voiced their concerns and were talked down to, instead of being heard. We know the community relies on us to catch this kind of thing, and in this case we fucked up, plain and simple. Again, I apologize for that."
A lot of trans people have given in to cynicism at this point and while they appreciate the apology, what they would like to see are systematic changes, or at least the admittance that this is a systematic problem, and that they have messed up before. For example, everything around the AsianEra takeaway thread. And the fact that this very thread is mostly unknown to the community at large by hiding it in the announcements section. And people who were banned in the confrontation with and about Black Chamber never got an apology.
- Also on the 7th of December, Sophia contacts the TransEra discord and wants to talk. A lot of users are sceptical about this, because of the timeline I've laid out here including the "sigh" moment. But we are fine with having a conversation despite that. She lets us know that she has handed in her resignation for after these talks and that this mending of relations is important to her. The fact that she had already handed in her resignation could probably easily be verified by the staff members she sent it to. Any claims that Sophia was bullied into retirement are 100% incorrect. Either misinformed or a straight up lie. But who knows? Maybe Sophia told us she had handed in her resignation but then changed her mind and only handed it in after the talks? I wouldn't blame her for that. Regardless, it's being painted here as if there is a direct causal relation from the talks to Sophia quitting and that is just provably untrue.
I don't know what Sophia's plans for these talks were. She basically came in and said "sorry for the Black Chamber situation, what can I do to make it right?", and in my understanding, what TransEra wanted was for Sophia to understand the history of our issues surrounding moderation (civility over minority voices) and the forum biosphere that nourishes (bad faith posters and dogwhistling leading to bans for the people who call them out). This was important to many of us because of the disregard she had shown for our concerns around moderation during the "sigh" moment. We wanted her to understand that this was not an isolated incident. What happens in the beginning of these talks can in my view be generalized as: discord member brings up an issue (i.e. ban for hostility against someone dogwhistling) -> Sophia looks into it, says she agrees, but does not have the power to do anything about it. This is all couched in customer service de-escalation language which is grating to me personally because I had to use it in my former line of work, and I feel like the use of this language is manipulative. To be clear, I'm not accusing her of manipulation, it's just my personal association. Because we hear "I don't actually have that power", we ask for B-Dubs to join the talks. She says she messaged him but he's offline right now and she'll get back to us.
But again, Black Chamber wasn't the only issue, the situation was emblematic for how trans people are generally treated on Era. If we didn't care deeply about these issues, we wouldn't bother having these talks, right? And we're not a unified voice, we're a bunch of people who each have their own history. So for example, Ketkat's ban is brought up by several people, but that was not a sticking point for everyone, that was just another example for "trans person reacts to bad faith poster and gets banned for hostility". Ketkat herself, from the very beginning, expressed that she actually had no interest in being unbanned, because the forum had become such a hostile place towards her. And obviously it was never going to happen because of the contempt some staff members apparently are still carrying around. This is what was told to us by all three mods in these discussions: They didn't agree with the decision on the Ketkat ban, but there was nothing they could do because of "past grievances".
At some point the OT comes up because someone has to write it, right? (A lot of trans Era members would prefer a full on ban.) So a member of the discord offers to write it. It's pointed out that a staff member should post it so that the discord member won't be perceived as a token trans person, so that the thread won't be perceived as "all of TransEra signed off on this". In the end, Sophia as a staff member posts the OT, and the worry comes true. Example without linking the poster:
"Shout out to transEra for all the work they have put in to getting this together, voicing their thoughts, advocating for an inclusive forum and, through all the shit they have been given, still wanting people to have a space to discuss this game and issues."
Some TransEra members who were opposed to having an OT in the first place feel like this is an erasure of their opinion. Full disclosure, I'm one of them.
Alice joins discussions, and kind of misreads the room, trying to lighten up the mood, joking around etc., which is not perceived well, as it feels to some members like she is not taking the talks seriously. Again, not saying that she didn't, this is about perceptions.
Even with Alice in the talks, it overall doesn't change from "we hear you, we'll look into it, we agree it's an issue, we can't really change it but we'll do anything in our power to look into this for you". We were left completely in the dark if anything was actually happening, if other staff were contacted about anything, but we were going off the assumption that staff knew that these talks were happening, mostly because Sophia mentioned writing and sending emails to staff several times. Again, because we are hearing "we don't have that kind of power", we are asking for B-Dubs to join. Again, "that's a good idea, we'll see what we can do about getting him in here".
This goes on for 5 days.
On the 12th of December, one of us realizes that a problematic situation we had been reporting to staff over and over again, and that had been brought up in our talks, was resolved. The two mods in our discord didn't mention anything about it, so we asked, hey, that's cool, so these talks are going somewhere? We can have an impact with this? But we were told by one of the two , I quote, "I want to stress that this isn't because of anything said in here." and some more stuff that I can't mention because it would give away what the situation was about. In any case, we were treated as if we would take this "victory" and parade it around or something, but instead we were told to not bring it up in the discussion ever again, which was perceived as very hostile.
So people are upset. They're not attacking the mods, but they are responding to the tone with questions. "So you're saying you can't really change anything, and the one thing that changed for the better, we definitely didn't have an impact on? So why are we even bothering then?", that kind of thing.
At this point, Nepenthe joins the talks. She is apparently completely out of the loop and thought this all was just about Black Chamber? She says she was PM'ed by a random user (who is neither trans nor in the discord) about the Ketkat ban, and seems agitated over this and, as I understand it, in her eyes this is proof that the talks were leaked? This all is cause for confusion.
Sophia leaves the discord without further communication and we are told by Alice that this is for health reasons, and that she was thanking us for our time and giving her the space to work this out, nothing about how we were supposedly bullying her? Which makes it seem very disingenous to portray it as such. We never meant to make her feel bad and there was never any pushback from either of them.
After getting over the confusion (but seemingly Nepenthe still thinks we leaked that we were talking about Ketkat?), we go through the same cycle again. Member brings something up, Nepenthe looks into it, she says she'll see what she can do, turns out it's not in her power. But at least she's direct to us about Ketkat, saying there is no way that Ketkat will ever be on Era again. (Again, Ketkat never wanted to come back, but it would have been a symbolic gesture of good will because if the TransEra discord would be in agreement about one single thing, it's that Ketkat has been done dirty.) Again, because we are being told "I don't have that kind of power", we ask that B-Dubs join in the discussion. Again, "we'll see what we can do".
So at this point I say something snippish about hearing the same PR talk again, which was wrong and hotheaded of me. The reason that happened hours after the fact is that I was asleep, again, CEST timezone. I woke up to the 3rd mod captain out of 5 telling us they don't actually have any power, and I, like many others on the server, had had enough of this seemingly neverending cycle.
Nepenthe reacts to this by telling us to do what we need to do for the sake of our mental health regarding Era (which I personally read as "if you have issues with the way Era is, you might have a mental health issue") and that she's not going to "fucking beg anyone to stay", and that she won't stay in the discord to serve as a target for anyone's anger and frustration, thanks us for the invite and ends it with "Don't ping or quote me again".
So, some of us read this as targeted at me specifically (the don't ping or quote me again part), but others including the mods of the server read it as targeted against the whole server, "you" as in "all of you" and not as in "you, Hexe". This is probably informed by the frustration we have been going through for days at this point. Remember, the talks started on the 7th CEST, for me it is now the morning of the 14th. So, the server mods read Nepenthe's message as "these talks are over, just leave Era if you don't like it" so they remove the two remaining Era staff members (they only had access to the discussion channel) because the roles channel hasn't been functioning properly and we have new users coming in. (That's what I was told, I don't know how discord works.)
So now in hindsight, reading the posts by Poodlestrike, Sophia, Alice and now Nepenthe I think there are some things that the staff members took as attacks but were not meant as such:
- Sophia read our criticisms of how Era is moderated as us bullying and erasing her identity, which was never intended (nor did any one of us - two dozen or so who were active in the talks - read it this way), and if we had been told about it we would have apologized?
- Nepenthe read a user PM'ing her about Ketkat as proof that we were leaking content of the talks while in reality it was just a random cis user unrelated to TransEra who had no idea about the talks
- Alice read the removal of the two remaining staff members from the discord as an insult to the both of them, which was based on a misunderstanding of Nepenthe's last post
So, again, I want to emphasize what I wrote as a response to Nepenthe's last message in the discord (paraphrased a few words for context):
I hope everyone here realizes that we've spent a week in there with 3 out of 5 mod captains who have kept on saying the same stuff over and over again, that they agree with us but don't have any actual power. I think frustration and disillusionment are a very normal and healthy reaction to this. Catching some of that frustration is not really on a single staff member who was in there. We could have been told from the beginning that era staff including trans staff don't care about us (the people in the TransEra discord, again, 70+ people) enough to make actual changes or gestures beyond promises which consistently have been empty. In fact that was what most of us have been convinced of, some for a year or so, some longer. There are more trans people on our and the NB discord who have left era or have been permabanned for standing up for themselves ("history of hostility" is a meme there) than there are active posters. We have already been run off. Sophia is the one who made us think that staff might have an interest in mending relations, but apparently we've just been strung along for a week. All the while being completely left in the dark.
Not @ing Nepenthe because she told me not to.
Jeeves
Member
Holy fuck I missed a lot. Cyberpunk OT drama, the coming and going of Hobbes, some kind of Nepenthe meltdown I couldn't be bothered to read...this is prime entertainment.
Looking from afar, this round of drama is all still stemming from that 'mix it up' pic, isn't it? Fragility doesn't even begin to describe these guys.
Looking from afar, this round of drama is all still stemming from that 'mix it up' pic, isn't it? Fragility doesn't even begin to describe these guys.
Barry Burton
Member
Okay, I'll be honest about my feelings. This might come off as harsh, because really, I have no idea how in the world to say it without it sounding that way, despite not meaning to:
But Nephenthe's post, while truly wonderful and heartfelt and it's easily to tell is genuine and so chocked full of so many emotions which are incredibly valid...
That's all 100% true and valid.
But at the same time, like how to put this? This is the where it's hard to say it without being insensitive part comes in, despite absolutely not meaning to.
It's odd to see so many people rush to give sympathies and concerns to Nepenthe's posts, even when they're absolutely valid and deserved, when so many concerns from so many others were outright dismissed if not banned by the staff (which I know Nepenthe in particular has nothing to do with in most of these cases and don't mean to imply otherwise), to see such an outpouring of emotion and sympathy for that post and those feelings when so many others got and continue to get little to none (though I suppose that isn't terribly surprising since many who would do that are either banned, threadbanned, or just too terrified to post in fear of one or the other happening to them at this point, so it's only natural things would be rather lopsided at this point, with the way things have gone and where we're currently at, even if that's just a completely unintentional after-effect, but still)...
I dunno, if it's a feeling of being wronged, or just jealousy and pettiness (which I'm fully willing to admit is almost certainly part of it, at least in my case, and I fully realize that and how ridiculous and completely insensitive that is even, but I can't help how I feel, as weird as it is to be "jealous" of such things, it's just feels like more attention is being paid towards some people being hurt than others, and I'm sure part of the problem in fact is that we all feel that way, and just disagree over who gets more attention or why, and that itself is part of the problem itself, focusing on such things instead of just addressing the hurt itself and what can be done about it), or some combination, but despite their being ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT ON THE SURFACE, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, it still FEELS wrong for those kinda reasons.
Like, I know that might make ABSOLUTELY no sense whatsoever, especially since that post was so clearly so heartfelt and full of emotion, but that's precisely the thing...
So many people have been doing the same thing, have been pouring their hearts out as well, and to see that utterly dismissed and the whole entire tone change as soon as Nepenthe posted... While her feelings might absolutely be genuine and valid and she's not saying anything wrong or anything, it still feels wrong, because while that may have in no way been her intention, far from it in fact, the entire discussion has shifted despite absolutely no problems being solved, whatsoever, or anything really changing.
And that itself is worrying to me.
Because it's just because giving their sympathies to a perfectly sympathetic situation, and there's nothing wrong with that. Far, far from it. It's the most natural thing in the world, in fact.
But at the same time, nothing is actually SOLVED by doing that either. Not that post is really meant to solve anything, and is fully honest about that. But still, we're still exactly where we were, just expressing sympathy to Nepenthe while all the same problems and issues still remain, completely unaddressed, just buried under the wave of sympathies.
Like, I know it's not really a fair comparison to Nepenthe's post, but I'm still nonetheless reminded of this post from earlier in the thread that kinda got lost in the shuffle:
Like, I don't want to say that Nepenthe was doing the same thing as Wonderment, because she certainly wasn't, definitely not intentionally anyway.
And I know she was only speaking for herself.
But nonetheless, how do I put this... There can be an army of posts from various communities, but as soon as there is one staff post full of emotion, even when there are countless posts full of emotion from various communities, seeing people huddle around the staff post...
I duno how to put it, but it feels bad.
Not because Nepenthe's feelings aren't genuine.
Not because there even should be sides in this to begin with.
But just seeing how the discussion completely shifted like after that, even if that was in no way her intention, that people rush to give sympathies, even if they are indeed well deserved, just the flow of the discussion and all the problems that were being addressed and still needing to be addressed feeling like they're being swept away just like that, even if that was in no way the intention, still seeing it happening and realizing indeed that even COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL, that just people pouring our their legitimate heartfelt emotions like that can have such an effect on the way things go...
It just gives me even less hope, to be honest.
Because everything Nepenthe saying may be true and may be from the heart and is perfectly valid.
But where does it leave us?
What does it change?
Not that the point of such posts are to change things per se anyway, but...
I duno.
The whole thing, the whole state of the thread after that, it just confirms to meet that this is doomed to repeat.
That I myself have tried my best, to no avail.
And I'm just done (NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR WANTING TO BE BANNED. I DON'T MEAN DONE IN THAT WAY.).
I'm just completely done.
I've given into the learned helplessness.
Nepenthe's feelings are perfectly valid, there's nothing wrong with them in any way.
But nonetheless her posting that and the reaction to that and how the thread has quickly shifted since....
It confirms to me that change is futile here.
So I give up.
I've tried so much, everything I can think of to get through.
But clearly none of it matters, and indeed, staff vs member divisions will remain, and we'll just keep going in circles, pouring out emotions until a combination of people get banned, others leave, others are too scared to speak up, until some other incident happens, where again there are various outpouring of emotions, various people are banned, various others leave, various others get too scared to do anything, and we all keep dong this and nothing changes.
Not for staff.
Not for normal members.
Not for anyone.
And indeed, it's quite clear from posts like Nepenthe's that that's just as bad for staff as anyone else.
But nothing changes, even after over a year of these discussions in various forms.
The clear point being that none of us trust each other, due to us all being hurt in our own own ways, for our own reasons, and thus are immediately suspicious of each other when even what might in fact turn out the to be the most innocuous thing in the end, nonetheless because of how we're hurt in the past, we can't take that chance, and assume the worst, assume someone is directly attacking US, assume people our leaking OUR private conversations, assume this, assume that, and in many cases, especially based on prior lived experience where exactly that happened, there are very valid reasons for that mistrust, but that doesn't mean that's what happened in every situations.
But precisely because we've all been hurt in our own ways, which is both tragic and perfectly understandable, because of those own forms of hurting, we'll never actually trust each other, not truly, and always be suspicious, the seeds of doubt will always be there and they won't go away because of that hurt.
So I just don't know what to do.
I don't know how to fight that.
I don't know how to make us able to trust each other and get along and actually fix this.
I'm not sure if it even is possible at all, precisely because that hurt is so incredibly real and runs so very, very deep sometimes.
I don't know.
But I'm stepping out from this particular conversation because I'm clearly way outside my depth at this point, that I've given it all from my perspective, and don't know what else to offer and my participating in it, my mental state has only become worse and I'm become more depressed and despondent over both the state of the site and the safety of those I'd like to consider friends, even if that's too strong a word and comes off as kinda creepy if anything as someone who's primarily a lurker, nonetheless even as such there are so many people who's posts I love reading that I'd hate to lose and I just have no hope that won't happen eventually, if not now, in some future controversy or some such, and nothing that's been said has given me reassurance on that front.
Like, people coming and going simply due to the passage of time and the realities of real life is one thing, but so many people leaving because they're afraid to post or what would happen to them or leaving because of what happened to other members... That's what terrifies me.
And nothing that's been said indicates to me that that will in fact get any better and anything will happen other than us continuing to lose members and communities.
And I've tried my best to argue my own perspective there.
But I've said my piece and don't know what else to say, especially this is hardly my forté to begin with, and honestly, I'm terrified myself about accidentally tripping on toes and have been fearful of that for some time and have been scared that I've been really living on borrowed time and that if I say anything, anything at all more than this, that I will be threadbanned if not outright banned, so that's just one more reason to go.
I just myself don't feel safe, at all.
I feel dismissed.
Ignored.
Like I don't belong.
So I'll spend my energy elsewhere, helping members where I can where I see the opportunity, but that's clearly not here.
This thread is a lost cause that will change nothing, for anyone, on either "side," or any community, or anything. It will just keep going on in circles, as it has been for months.
Nonetheless, I hope I'm wrong about that. Dear god, do I hope I'm wrong.
And I wish everyone in this thread the absolute best.
But I myself can't keep doing this. It's just not good for me, at all, in any way.
So to everyone here.
To TransEra
To AsianEra
To MuslimEra
To BlackEra
To so many other communities
And indeed, to the staff as well, the moderators, admins, and everyone,
I leave you with the warmest of wishes and with the best for all of you, wish you happy holidays, hope you stay safe in these trying times that even ignoring everything that's happening on this site and in various Discords and whatever, with just the pandemic and all that alone, I hope you stay safe and all that, and I wish the best for your loved ones as well.
And I'm just rambling now, as I'm wont to do, so I'll leave it at.
Best wishes all, and stay safe.
Also though,
I myself am not a part of any Discords. I mean, I have access to stuff like the original PoliEra discord, but I never use it, because I just hate Discord in general. And anything more than that? Got nothing.
But again, that relates to people being hurt in very real ways, and that pain being perfectly valid, and precisely because of that pain, we lash out at not only those who deserve it, but those that don't as well, just as a defensive measure to avoid being hurt again. That's part of being human, especially when you're a minority and that's your daily lived experience.
But that being the case, that's what gives me so little hope of this being something that's being able to be solved.
So much jumping to conclusions, making assumptions, and just, well, assuming they're true without any communication or verification, and just letting oneself be further hurt by assuming worst case scenarios and conspiracies even when that wasn't what actually happened or was meant.
I just... don't know what to do about that.
I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done.
Just too many people, each hurt in their own ways, for their own unique reasons and situations, making conversation and reaching across that pain and prior hurt even harder than it already would be even in the best times.
I don't know what to do.
I'd like to help, because like I said, I'm an incredibly empathetic person to a fault and just can't help it, especially since on top of that, as someone who's also disabled, I have nothing but time on my hands.
But... there are some problems that can't be solved. Certainly not by any given individual anyway.
And I have to accept my own limits and indeed, look after my own mental health as well, and be careful I don't develop some kind of savior complex on top of everything else, which never fixes anything for anyone involved and just makes existing problems worse instead of better.
Especially since on top of everything else, while I am a minority, while I am bisexual/nonbinary, that really has nothing to do with any of these particular discussions and as such, as I'm not involved in any of these Discords or a part of those groups, that just feels like further reason I shouldn't have gotten involved at all to begin with, even if the empathetic part of me fights with the anxious side of me that makes me want to stick up for those who I feel are wronged or who I feel have gotten a raw deal, that empathetic part of me also tells me I'm not the person to do that even if I hate standing by the sidelines and seeing people both be hurt and hurting each other and feeling powerless to do anything about it, even if it's "not my fight," just wanting to jump in anyway, especially after year after years of lectures from schools about how stuff like "people who don't jump in when others are bullying each other are just as bad as the bullies themselves" resonating with me and stuff, nonetheless, I know that all the same because of all that I'm likely not someone who should be party to these discussions regardless.
But like I already said, just rambling at this point, and I don't know what else to say, other than discussion in this thread has been completely unproductive and in no way helpful to my mental health and I unfortunately can't see that changing, even as I try my best to be optimistic and a glass-half-full person, I just can't see that applying here, as much as I try and want to.
Nonetheless, since I did end up rambling some more, I once again wish everyone the best, happy holidays, and hope you all stay safe and healthy, especially in this trying year of all years, with pandemic and all on top of it all.
Timothy "ShironRedshift" Brown
But Nephenthe's post, while truly wonderful and heartfelt and it's easily to tell is genuine and so chocked full of so many emotions which are incredibly valid...
That's all 100% true and valid.
But at the same time, like how to put this? This is the where it's hard to say it without being insensitive part comes in, despite absolutely not meaning to.
It's odd to see so many people rush to give sympathies and concerns to Nepenthe's posts, even when they're absolutely valid and deserved, when so many concerns from so many others were outright dismissed if not banned by the staff (which I know Nepenthe in particular has nothing to do with in most of these cases and don't mean to imply otherwise), to see such an outpouring of emotion and sympathy for that post and those feelings when so many others got and continue to get little to none (though I suppose that isn't terribly surprising since many who would do that are either banned, threadbanned, or just too terrified to post in fear of one or the other happening to them at this point, so it's only natural things would be rather lopsided at this point, with the way things have gone and where we're currently at, even if that's just a completely unintentional after-effect, but still)...
I dunno, if it's a feeling of being wronged, or just jealousy and pettiness (which I'm fully willing to admit is almost certainly part of it, at least in my case, and I fully realize that and how ridiculous and completely insensitive that is even, but I can't help how I feel, as weird as it is to be "jealous" of such things, it's just feels like more attention is being paid towards some people being hurt than others, and I'm sure part of the problem in fact is that we all feel that way, and just disagree over who gets more attention or why, and that itself is part of the problem itself, focusing on such things instead of just addressing the hurt itself and what can be done about it), or some combination, but despite their being ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT ON THE SURFACE, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, it still FEELS wrong for those kinda reasons.
Like, I know that might make ABSOLUTELY no sense whatsoever, especially since that post was so clearly so heartfelt and full of emotion, but that's precisely the thing...
So many people have been doing the same thing, have been pouring their hearts out as well, and to see that utterly dismissed and the whole entire tone change as soon as Nepenthe posted... While her feelings might absolutely be genuine and valid and she's not saying anything wrong or anything, it still feels wrong, because while that may have in no way been her intention, far from it in fact, the entire discussion has shifted despite absolutely no problems being solved, whatsoever, or anything really changing.
And that itself is worrying to me.
Because it's just because giving their sympathies to a perfectly sympathetic situation, and there's nothing wrong with that. Far, far from it. It's the most natural thing in the world, in fact.
But at the same time, nothing is actually SOLVED by doing that either. Not that post is really meant to solve anything, and is fully honest about that. But still, we're still exactly where we were, just expressing sympathy to Nepenthe while all the same problems and issues still remain, completely unaddressed, just buried under the wave of sympathies.
Like, I know it's not really a fair comparison to Nepenthe's post, but I'm still nonetheless reminded of this post from earlier in the thread that kinda got lost in the shuffle:
Like, I don't want to say that Nepenthe was doing the same thing as Wonderment, because she certainly wasn't, definitely not intentionally anyway.
And I know she was only speaking for herself.
But nonetheless, how do I put this... There can be an army of posts from various communities, but as soon as there is one staff post full of emotion, even when there are countless posts full of emotion from various communities, seeing people huddle around the staff post...
I duno how to put it, but it feels bad.
Not because Nepenthe's feelings aren't genuine.
Not because there even should be sides in this to begin with.
But just seeing how the discussion completely shifted like after that, even if that was in no way her intention, that people rush to give sympathies, even if they are indeed well deserved, just the flow of the discussion and all the problems that were being addressed and still needing to be addressed feeling like they're being swept away just like that, even if that was in no way the intention, still seeing it happening and realizing indeed that even COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL, that just people pouring our their legitimate heartfelt emotions like that can have such an effect on the way things go...
It just gives me even less hope, to be honest.
Because everything Nepenthe saying may be true and may be from the heart and is perfectly valid.
But where does it leave us?
What does it change?
Not that the point of such posts are to change things per se anyway, but...
I duno.
The whole thing, the whole state of the thread after that, it just confirms to meet that this is doomed to repeat.
That I myself have tried my best, to no avail.
And I'm just done (NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR WANTING TO BE BANNED. I DON'T MEAN DONE IN THAT WAY.).
I'm just completely done.
I've given into the learned helplessness.
Nepenthe's feelings are perfectly valid, there's nothing wrong with them in any way.
But nonetheless her posting that and the reaction to that and how the thread has quickly shifted since....
It confirms to me that change is futile here.
So I give up.
I've tried so much, everything I can think of to get through.
But clearly none of it matters, and indeed, staff vs member divisions will remain, and we'll just keep going in circles, pouring out emotions until a combination of people get banned, others leave, others are too scared to speak up, until some other incident happens, where again there are various outpouring of emotions, various people are banned, various others leave, various others get too scared to do anything, and we all keep dong this and nothing changes.
Not for staff.
Not for normal members.
Not for anyone.
And indeed, it's quite clear from posts like Nepenthe's that that's just as bad for staff as anyone else.
But nothing changes, even after over a year of these discussions in various forms.
The clear point being that none of us trust each other, due to us all being hurt in our own own ways, for our own reasons, and thus are immediately suspicious of each other when even what might in fact turn out the to be the most innocuous thing in the end, nonetheless because of how we're hurt in the past, we can't take that chance, and assume the worst, assume someone is directly attacking US, assume people our leaking OUR private conversations, assume this, assume that, and in many cases, especially based on prior lived experience where exactly that happened, there are very valid reasons for that mistrust, but that doesn't mean that's what happened in every situations.
But precisely because we've all been hurt in our own ways, which is both tragic and perfectly understandable, because of those own forms of hurting, we'll never actually trust each other, not truly, and always be suspicious, the seeds of doubt will always be there and they won't go away because of that hurt.
So I just don't know what to do.
I don't know how to fight that.
I don't know how to make us able to trust each other and get along and actually fix this.
I'm not sure if it even is possible at all, precisely because that hurt is so incredibly real and runs so very, very deep sometimes.
I don't know.
But I'm stepping out from this particular conversation because I'm clearly way outside my depth at this point, that I've given it all from my perspective, and don't know what else to offer and my participating in it, my mental state has only become worse and I'm become more depressed and despondent over both the state of the site and the safety of those I'd like to consider friends, even if that's too strong a word and comes off as kinda creepy if anything as someone who's primarily a lurker, nonetheless even as such there are so many people who's posts I love reading that I'd hate to lose and I just have no hope that won't happen eventually, if not now, in some future controversy or some such, and nothing that's been said has given me reassurance on that front.
Like, people coming and going simply due to the passage of time and the realities of real life is one thing, but so many people leaving because they're afraid to post or what would happen to them or leaving because of what happened to other members... That's what terrifies me.
And nothing that's been said indicates to me that that will in fact get any better and anything will happen other than us continuing to lose members and communities.
And I've tried my best to argue my own perspective there.
But I've said my piece and don't know what else to say, especially this is hardly my forté to begin with, and honestly, I'm terrified myself about accidentally tripping on toes and have been fearful of that for some time and have been scared that I've been really living on borrowed time and that if I say anything, anything at all more than this, that I will be threadbanned if not outright banned, so that's just one more reason to go.
I just myself don't feel safe, at all.
I feel dismissed.
Ignored.
Like I don't belong.
So I'll spend my energy elsewhere, helping members where I can where I see the opportunity, but that's clearly not here.
This thread is a lost cause that will change nothing, for anyone, on either "side," or any community, or anything. It will just keep going on in circles, as it has been for months.
Nonetheless, I hope I'm wrong about that. Dear god, do I hope I'm wrong.
And I wish everyone in this thread the absolute best.
But I myself can't keep doing this. It's just not good for me, at all, in any way.
So to everyone here.
To TransEra
To AsianEra
To MuslimEra
To BlackEra
To so many other communities
And indeed, to the staff as well, the moderators, admins, and everyone,
I leave you with the warmest of wishes and with the best for all of you, wish you happy holidays, hope you stay safe in these trying times that even ignoring everything that's happening on this site and in various Discords and whatever, with just the pandemic and all that alone, I hope you stay safe and all that, and I wish the best for your loved ones as well.
And I'm just rambling now, as I'm wont to do, so I'll leave it at.
Best wishes all, and stay safe.
Also though,
I myself am not a part of any Discords. I mean, I have access to stuff like the original PoliEra discord, but I never use it, because I just hate Discord in general. And anything more than that? Got nothing.
But again, that relates to people being hurt in very real ways, and that pain being perfectly valid, and precisely because of that pain, we lash out at not only those who deserve it, but those that don't as well, just as a defensive measure to avoid being hurt again. That's part of being human, especially when you're a minority and that's your daily lived experience.
But that being the case, that's what gives me so little hope of this being something that's being able to be solved.
So much jumping to conclusions, making assumptions, and just, well, assuming they're true without any communication or verification, and just letting oneself be further hurt by assuming worst case scenarios and conspiracies even when that wasn't what actually happened or was meant.
I just... don't know what to do about that.
I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done.
Just too many people, each hurt in their own ways, for their own unique reasons and situations, making conversation and reaching across that pain and prior hurt even harder than it already would be even in the best times.
I don't know what to do.
I'd like to help, because like I said, I'm an incredibly empathetic person to a fault and just can't help it, especially since on top of that, as someone who's also disabled, I have nothing but time on my hands.
But... there are some problems that can't be solved. Certainly not by any given individual anyway.
And I have to accept my own limits and indeed, look after my own mental health as well, and be careful I don't develop some kind of savior complex on top of everything else, which never fixes anything for anyone involved and just makes existing problems worse instead of better.
Especially since on top of everything else, while I am a minority, while I am bisexual/nonbinary, that really has nothing to do with any of these particular discussions and as such, as I'm not involved in any of these Discords or a part of those groups, that just feels like further reason I shouldn't have gotten involved at all to begin with, even if the empathetic part of me fights with the anxious side of me that makes me want to stick up for those who I feel are wronged or who I feel have gotten a raw deal, that empathetic part of me also tells me I'm not the person to do that even if I hate standing by the sidelines and seeing people both be hurt and hurting each other and feeling powerless to do anything about it, even if it's "not my fight," just wanting to jump in anyway, especially after year after years of lectures from schools about how stuff like "people who don't jump in when others are bullying each other are just as bad as the bullies themselves" resonating with me and stuff, nonetheless, I know that all the same because of all that I'm likely not someone who should be party to these discussions regardless.
But like I already said, just rambling at this point, and I don't know what else to say, other than discussion in this thread has been completely unproductive and in no way helpful to my mental health and I unfortunately can't see that changing, even as I try my best to be optimistic and a glass-half-full person, I just can't see that applying here, as much as I try and want to.
Nonetheless, since I did end up rambling some more, I once again wish everyone the best, happy holidays, and hope you all stay safe and healthy, especially in this trying year of all years, with pandemic and all on top of it all.
Timothy "ShironRedshift" Brown
Shiron ends this post by quoting the Hexe Report posted above, creating the Ultimate Wall O' Text.
"Well, just one final thing. I'm not a member of the Discord in question as I said, but I feel it deserves just as much exposure, so I'll give it a quote just to make sure this perspective isn't missed:"
SEE: Hexe's Manifesto
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
pretty cool of them to suddenly forget about transphobia and embrace a TV show that stars a vile TERF because OMG STAR WARSSS DRRRRR!!!
wonder how many of them bitching about CDPR are cool with the company who openly films next to concentration camps (as well as employing a VILE TERF BITCH)?
oh wait i don't have to wonder, because they are totally cool with it. because they are utter fucking hypocrites who are addicted to consumer products and only use SJW causes as an excuse to consume/harass.
wonder how many of them bitching about CDPR are cool with the company who openly films next to concentration camps (as well as employing a VILE TERF BITCH)?
oh wait i don't have to wonder, because they are totally cool with it. because they are utter fucking hypocrites who are addicted to consumer products and only use SJW causes as an excuse to consume/harass.
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Admittedly a good idea but when you have someone focusing on the monthly payment they're probably not thinking long term.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
One of my favorite things about all this is that you know after Nepenthe wrote that treatise that Shiron wasn’t to be outdone and just had to write something even longer.
Also love that not one person will respond to Shiron because nobody has time to read all that.
HotPocket69
Banned
Did Shiron Dumbshit really just dox himself?
What a fucking retard.
What a fucking retard.
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Nazi here, Nazi there, there are more Nazis around than at the height of the Third Reich it seems.
I agree with many of the posters here - if you type this much as a response on a video game forum something is wrong.
If they really think Hogward’s is going to be a smaller deal than Cyberpunk - oh boy...
I agree with many of the posters here - if you type this much as a response on a video game forum something is wrong.
If they really think Hogward’s is going to be a smaller deal than Cyberpunk - oh boy...
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chris121580
Member
I’m sorry if this makes me a bad person but I find it fucking hilarious that the mods over there are talking about how being a mod is affecting their mental health. Are you fucking serious? It’s a god damn message board and not a job. Who gives a shit if these people like you or not and if you do care that much, you should just step away and also reconsider your life choices
CaptainConlock
Member
He just gave his real name (it's a pretty generic name since there are probably tons of guys that share the same name), not his address or anything. Still nothing but melodramatic tripe though.Did Shiron Dumbshit really just dox himself?
What a fucking retard.
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Happened here too circa 2016-2017. Dysfunction at first principles.
HotPocket69
Banned
DarkParadise
Member
Can somebody call up Netflix, so they can create a show based on this?
Astral Dog
Member
honestly, if Hogwarts gets good reviews it will become too big to ignore, it looks pretty goodYeah, it's one big foul compromise.
"Ok, trans era, we didn't ban the big blockbuster game because click revenue, but now we'll ban that movie game that not that many people care about anyway. We good? We good, right?!"
Butt of the joke, you, trans era
has the potential to morph into ResetERA's greatest enemy yet
Nester99
Member
Did Shiron Dumbshit really just dox himself?
What a fucking retard.
We did not read his shit, care to summarize the self dox?
Ionian
Member
Someone honestly should make some type of Wiki.
So much has happened over the years that some posters will need their own pages.
And it keeps going and going and going ...
Nester99
Member
DarkParadise
Member
The closest i have found is this one: https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/ResetERA
Ionian
Member
Bad link, 502 error.
Ionian
Member
The caporeria queen of the forum. Loves to move furniture. The real deal.
DarkParadise
Member
Weird. Try to access Rotten Websites and search for ResetEra - a lot of heavy stuff is listed, that i didn't even know about.
Ionian
Member
Oh been reading the site from the start. There honestly has been a huge amount of things that have happened, a seriously massive amount.
EDIT: And everytime, without fail, if someone speaks up then it's a ban.
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Dick Jones
Gold Member
They should get the ones who did the Epstein documentary.
Chuckie
Member
Lol......Nepenthe is non binary now? I'm pretty sure that is to stop the trans members going after her. "Hey wait.....I am slightly non-commited Trans too!"
That Community Discussion thread has been 100% pure concentrated Era for the last days. People falling over themselves proclaiming to be the biggest victims ever, feeling unsafe, while in the process being absolutely vile to other members.
That Community Discussion thread has been 100% pure concentrated Era for the last days. People falling over themselves proclaiming to be the biggest victims ever, feeling unsafe, while in the process being absolutely vile to other members.
Petaya Berry
Banned
Perhaps they think that they are really changing the world (for better!) with their janny unpaid job.
Already exists.
It's called Sense 8.
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Ionian
Member
100% that's it. They flat out said they were straight CIS before. Used it as a tool, no doubt about it.
Maybe they're non-binary when they are in their fursona? Who knows at this stage.
Hilarious stuff.
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TVexperto
Member
Did this really happen? I need to see those posts.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Even if it gets bad reviews it will sell like no tomorrow - last main console HP game came in 2013 for the PS3. They are going to make bank with this one.honestly, if Hogwarts gets good reviews it will become too big to ignore, it looks pretty good
Expect all the people growing with the books and movies to buy it for their kids.
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Slurpy2k20
Member
Can someone please explain their obsession with mocking "Gamers (R) / Gamers (TM) / "Capital G Gamers", etc in every second fucking post? What the fuck does that even mean and why do they absolve themselves from being "gamers" while literally living on a videogame forum?
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Ionian
Member
Yup, loads of times with different mods.
The most recent examples are the one working with Black Chamber and now it's Nepenthe.
Too many to really point out, been happening since day one. The first I think was Sweet Nicole?
Or just use this
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I hate JK Rowling and want to ban talk of Hogwart's Legacy on Neogaf as it is transphobic. Also if someone wants to gift me a copy so I can protest it properly by playing it Day 1. Same for the new God of War game, not enough trans awareness from Kratos
rob305
Member
Still relevant in 2020:
I'm guessing it's the same mentality of the people that think it's their job to enforce traffic law. The type that drives the speed limit or slower in the left lane because "You shouldn't be speeding." Also the type that will speed up when you try to pass them because "You're driving too fast and it's my job to stop you." and similar stuff.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
True, it ain't gonna go away. The hate will shift toward something new.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
the answer to where that hate is being shifted: each other
fatty
Member
Of course assuming Trump actually goes away which he probably won't. Then again there will always be a new popular politician that won't be left enough that can be their new bugbear.
Bladed Thesis
Member
I love "i got the 84 month loan deal for being such a good customer"
Damn, you are dumb.
Damn, you are dumb.
Self High Five
Member
Individual Cyberpunk threads are now allowed! (as long it is about refunds, dev crunch, store delists)
But sales or PC performance threads? Check yo privilege.
But sales or PC performance threads? Check yo privilege.
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PoundSand
Banned
KNEW IT!
honestly, if Hogwarts gets good reviews it will become too big to ignore, it looks pretty good
Without even trying to trigger them: Hogwarts is the only nextgen-game I'm truly looking forward to, as it's the only one that looks nextgen, both visually and conceptually. I'm not even that big a HP-fan. But I honestly don't see how they can allow that game to be discussed over there without supporting J. K. Rowling, lol. No matter what the devs say: Rowling absolutely gets money from this, whether those be royalties from the game itself or indirectly as the game will push people to try and read the original books. If Restera admins think they can somehow reach a balance between "Fuck this TERF cunt!" and "But it's a good game", they've learnt nothing from their CP2077 mess. I won't complain, though, the drama will be delicious - once again.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So glad the mods are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have cultivated a culture of toxicity and now they are finally seeing what happens when you go ban heavy to try and please butthurt cunts who will never be happy until everyone gets banned.
Those long posts are not normal and clearly indicate some kind of narcissist diagnosis. I have no idea how they think someone like that should be incharge of "moderation".
Those long posts are not normal and clearly indicate some kind of narcissist diagnosis. I have no idea how they think someone like that should be incharge of "moderation".
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