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[Kawika]

Hey guys, Peltz just texted me some pics to share as he is out of the office and asked if i can post it on his behalf to supplement the conversation:

20L5

20m2u

have at it and continue away on the discussion =)

Mine is similar and I have to say, I find the 20L5's scan lines to be superior. The beef's peltz has with it are quite opposite for me. I absolutely love how sharp it is. I love the thicker scan lines. The color seems to be more vibrant than my 20F1U.

 

[Peltz]

Thanks Dave!

Okay. It's super subtle, but take a look at the color yellow in each shot. The 20l5 is slightly cooler and I think it's caused by the size of the scanlines along with a slight difference in black level.

 

[bodine1231]

That looks about right. Ones 800 lines ones 600,the 600 will look softer. That's why many people don't like the look of BVM's because the lines are so harsh and distinct,if you told me that was a pic from an OSSC I'd believe you. The L5 has the same picture as a 20F1U.

Thanks Dave!

Okay. It's super subtle, but take a look at the color yellow in each shot. The 20l5 is slightly cooler and I think it's caused by the size of the scanlines along with a slight difference in black level.

Its just a calibration issue,the "slightly cooler" that you mentioned can be stamped out. There are menu's upon menu's for that sort of thing. Maybe dropping the Green gain will bring the blacks down. Green gain has a tendency to make blacks brighter,at least on arcade monitors I've had. There are tons and tons and tons of little tweaks like that that can have an effect on the picture. Are they both set to D65? Kinda looks like the top is D65 and the bottom is D93.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I actually kind of prefer the 'scan lines' (gaps between rasters) to be a little thinner, but I still have love for the monitors like the Sony PVM-20L5 and JVC DT-V1710CGU. The focus is so tight because these monitors also do high-definition, not just 240p and 480i. The rasters don't even touch in 480p mode on these!

No monitor anybody gamed on back in the day, including 240p computer monitors from Commodore (Amiga) and Atari (ST) actually looked anything like that, though. Even if you were using a broadcast monitor in the 90s you'd never actually see 'scan lines' that thick (aka so much space between the actual scanlines or raster).

So, they aren't authentic looking, but personal preference is nobody's business but your own.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Hey guys, Peltz just texted me some pics to share as he is out of the office and asked if i can post it on his behalf to supplement the conversation:

20L5

20m2u

have at it and continue away on the discussion =)

💯

 

[Peltz]

That looks about right. Ones 800 lines ones 600,the 600 will look softer. That's why many people don't like the look of BVM's because the lines are so harsh and distinct,if you told me that was a pic from an OSSC I'd believe you. The L5 has the same picture as a 20F1U.



Its just a calibration issue,the "slightly cooler" that you mentioned can be stamped out. There are menu's upon menu's for that sort of thing. Maybe dropping the Green gain will bring the blacks down. Green gain has a tendency to make blacks brighter,at least on arcade monitors I've had. There are tons and tons and tons of little tweaks like that that can have an effect on the picture. Are they both set to D65? Kinda looks like the top is D65 and the bottom is D93.

Both are D65. I may want to go into a user preset to configure the temp a bit warmer for my tastes. I was thinking of increasing the red rather than decreasing the green though.

Is there anywhere that I can read up on how to do this properly?

 

[bodine1231]

Oh by the way I FINALLY got my Pal gamecube in and tried it out with the framemeister. It looks great! I'm still noticing some rolling noise on the signal though,it has to be from the XRGB because I don't see it on my PVM. The previous owner included a sync stripper which taps into the power of the XRGB,that has to be whats causing it. I don't have a normal scart connector for it to test though.

Also,there's a trick to zooming the picture while keeping small thin scanlines on the mini...just resize it using the TV's zoom and not the XRGB! When you zoom on the XRGB it also thins out the scanlines and makes them wider,basically unusable. This gives me great hope for the OSSC when I get the new one next week. The only reason I use an XRGB was for zooming gba,doesnt look like I'll need it if this works.


Fusion on a 55" zoomed with thin scanlines.

 

[Peltz]

Oh by the way I FINALLY got my Pal gamecube in and tried it out with the framemeister. It looks great! I'm still noticing some rolling noise on the signal though,it has to be from the XRGB because I don't see it on my PVM. The previous owner included a sync stripper which taps into the power of the XRGB,that has to be whats causing it. I don't have a normal scart connector for it to test though.

Also,there's a trick to zooming the picture while keeping small thin scanlines on the mini...just resize it using the TV's zoom and not the XRGB! When you zoom on the XRGB it also thins out the scanlines and makes them wider,basically unusable. This gives me great hope for the OSSC when I get the new one next week. The only reason I use an XRGB was for zooming gba,doesnt look like I'll need it if this works.


Fusion on a 55" zoomed with thin scanlines.

If I had your stash, I wouldn't waste my time with upscalers. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they exist and that I have one myself. And I would consider an OSSC too someday.

But man... I hope I never actually have to use them.

 

[Triforce141]

Fusion on a 55" zoomed with thin scanlines.

I was thinking to myself that an FPGA picture zoomer / scaling device like the DVDO would be a nice compliment to the OSSC, but then your pic reminded me that 4K TVs already have that function

 

[bodine1231]

If I had your stash, I wouldn't waste my time with upscalers. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they exist and that I have one myself. And I would consider an OSSC too someday.

But man... I hope I never actually have to use them.

Its just for the GBA. And sometimes its nice to play on a big ass screen

 

[CharlesDangus]

Oh by the way I FINALLY got my Pal gamecube in and tried it out with the framemeister. It looks great! I'm still noticing some rolling noise on the signal though,it has to be from the XRGB because I don't see it on my PVM. The previous owner included a sync stripper which taps into the power of the XRGB,that has to be whats causing it. I don't have a normal scart connector for it to test though.

Also,there's a trick to zooming the picture while keeping small thin scanlines on the mini...just resize it using the TV's zoom and not the XRGB! When you zoom on the XRGB it also thins out the scanlines and makes them wider,basically unusable. This gives me great hope for the OSSC when I get the new one next week. The only reason I use an XRGB was for zooming gba,doesnt look like I'll need it if this works.


Fusion on a 55" zoomed with thin scanlines.

Doesn't Gameboy Interface have options for zooming?

 

[Yes Boss!]

Mine is similar and I have to say, I find the 20L5's scan lines to be superior. The beef's peltz has with it are quite opposite for me. I absolutely love how sharp it is. I love the thicker scan lines. The color seems to be more vibrant than my 20F1U.

Same here. My 20L5 has this exceedingly pleasing vibrant look for 240p stuff. I love it.

 

[Triforce141]

Doesn't Gameboy Interface have options for zooming?

Only the base version, the (Ultra) Low Latency versions don't

 

[Peltz]

Can an upscaler handle ULL? That would be cool if so.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Can an upscaler handle ULL? That would be cool if so.

No. The TV can't handle the scan rate. GBA too incompatible.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

No. The TV can't handle the scan rate. GBA too incompatible.

My TV handles ULL 240p component at the wrong aspect ratio for some reason. I corrected it using the zoom functions and played for a while and couldn't find any issues. Ultimately it was just easier to use LL and not have to have a weird probably slightly wrong aspect ratio correction.

 

[Beer Monkey]

My TV handles ULL 240p component at the wrong aspect ratio for some reason. I corrected it using the zoom functions and played for a while and couldn't find any issues. Ultimately it was just easier to use LL and not have to have a weird probably slightly wrong aspect ratio correction.

That's because of the scan rate.

Look there might be a couple of sets out there that can handle it but it's gonna be quite atypical.

 

[bodine1231]

Saw this little guy at the thrift store today for $5,couldn't believe it. I've never seen one in person this small. It powered on but the screen was dead so I left it. It had RGB,Svideo and composite too! I bet the picture is insanely sharp on a tube this small.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

If I had your stash, I wouldn't waste my time with upscalers. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they exist and that I have one myself. And I would consider an OSSC too someday.

But man... I hope I never actually have to use them.

Each to their own, but my 20L5 sits in the corner as a table for controllers right now since i bought an oled tv and paired with the ossc.

Just cannot beat a big screen display no matter what imo.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Bodine when's the PVM version of this?

 

[bodine1231]

There's no way I'm doing that,lol. I plugged in four at once and my lights dimmed. No way!

 

[koopas]

Crossposting question: can I use an USA Sega Genesis Console with a Japanese Mega CD unit (or vice versa)

 

[Rydeen]

Saw this little guy at the thrift store today for $5,couldn't believe it. I've never seen one in person this small. It powered on but the screen was dead so I left it. It had RGB,Svideo and composite too! I bet the picture is insanely sharp on a tube this small.

I have one, found a bunch of them at Goodwill a couple years ago for $25 each, bought one for me and one for a friend. They're awesome little sets and very sharp for the size, but the fidelity is less impressive since it is only an 8" display. I'll update with pic of it when I get home.

 

[xenoncrash]

Bodine when's the PVM version of this?

What the hell I am seeing here? Oo

 

[davidwhangchoi]

Bodine when's the PVM version of this?

hahaha

There's no way I'm doing that,lol. I plugged in four at once and my lights dimmed. No way!

wow, the lights dimmed? damn

 

[RadarScope1]

Played some FDS with FDSStick last night and noticed my RAM adapter and console (RBG modded AV) were quite hot when I turned them off. Anything to worry about there or is that normal?

 

[Rydeen]

Played some FDS with FDSStick last night and noticed my RAM adapter and console (RBG modded AV) were quite hot when I turned them off. Anything to worry about there or is that normal?

What kind of power adapter are you using?

 

[polyh3dron]

Mine is similar and I have to say, I find the 20L5's scan lines to be superior. The beef's peltz has with it are quite opposite for me. I absolutely love how sharp it is. I love the thicker scan lines. The color seems to be more vibrant than my 20F1U.

yeah the 20L5 is the holy grail IMO.

Was too bad the one I bought had a bad red gun, had to return it.

 

[RadarScope1]

White kind of power adapter are you using?

The official Genesis model 1 adapter, which seems to be the most often recommended. Plugged into a power strip with several other components in my setup, but only the TV and 2.1 stereo system are also on at the same time as any one console.

 

[Peagles]

I thought the beef was with the black levels rather than the scanlines?

 

[Yes Boss!]

Finally got around to putting the jailbreak firmware on my analogue mini. I don't have a computer so I finally had a coworker help me out. Enjoying it on the 20L5 with component. Pretty dope!

 

[SKINNER!]

Sorry to ask again about the framemeister but I'm a little confused with the Solaris website. Has anyone from the UK able to order one from the site? There's two options to purchase. A normal one and a "EU tax free" version. Does the EU Tax free version apply to the UK too? It costs a little more but I presume its to prevent your item from stopping at customs. But given its labelled EU and UK customs operates differently to the EU I really don't want to pay more for the item only for it to stop at UK customs because I'm supposed to pay tax on it. Also, are prices on Solaris dependent on a currency conversion or is the £ they advertise set by them? Wondering if there's an advantage for me to pay with a different currency.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Bodine when's the PVM version of this?

O man, that would be a dream to run some MK Double Dash(8 consoles max though).

I would be running a bunch of xbox's on a setup like that Halo 2/Crimson Skies//Timsplitters 2/UC2/Outrun2/Mech Assault..... one day

 

[Peltz]

So, has anyone ever tried converting HDMI to SDI? There are a ton of options out there. Anything lag-free?

 

[Kawika]

So, has anyone ever tried converting HDMI to SDI? There are a ton of options out there. Anything lag-free?

I was actually wondering about getting HDMI to component in a good way. I've seen HDMI to component cables and powered converters. Anyone know have anything they've had decent luck with?

I have never heard anything about SDI for gaming even though I've had a few of those cards for various bvms through the years.

 

[Peltz]

I was actually wondering about getting HDMI to component in a good way. I've seen HDMI to component cables and powered converters. Anyone know have anything they've had decent luck with?

I have never heard anything about SDI for gaming even though I've had a few of those cards for various bvms through the years.

I figured HDMI can more cleanly be converted to SDI than Component because it's all digital.

In my mind, going from digital to analogue has to be more complicated than any other conversion.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

In my mind, going from digital to analogue has to be more complicated than any other conversion.

Digital to analog is relatively straightforward. Analog to digital is the most complicated one.

 

[BTails]

What the hell I am seeing here? Oo

The Gamecube equivalent of the movie "Snake Eyes"?

 

[NormalFish]

I figured HDMI can more cleanly be converted to SDI than Component because it's all digital.

In my mind, going from digital to analogue has to be more complicated than any other conversion.

Dont most devices that generate an analog output convert it from digital

 

[Peltz]

Dont most devices that generate an analog output convert it from digital

Probably. (I never claimed to know what I was talking about)

 

[davidwhangchoi]

so excited crossposting:
my Saturn Scart cable came in just now and hyped!
so pretty on the BVM =)

 

[socksfelloff]

Dont most devices that generate an analog output convert it from digital

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe all video signals output by any game console are digital. That's how we are able to get things like N64hdmi, NESRGB etc

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Dont most devices that generate an analog output convert it from digital

Like if you want to see or listen to anything everything eventually has to become analog.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe all video signals output by any game console are digital. That's how we are able to get things like N64hdmi, NESRGB etc

Depends what you mean by "output." Most consoles have a digital version of the video output that goes chip-to-chip to be converted to analog voltage. Frequently that is converted to RGBS analog and then from there to composite & etc.

NESRGB is the perfect case of where that doesn't happen at all. To save cost or something the PPU takes commands from the CPU and out of the chip comes composite video. Somewhere in the chip a digital verson of the NTSC color space (YIQ) is generated but it's never available outside the PPU itself. NESRGB takes the commands given to the PPU and instead generates RGB color version of the same thing, minus some color error.

 

[xenoncrash]

The Gamecube equivalent of the movie "Snake Eyes"?

Maybe this guy got his inheritance?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

so excited crossposting:
my Saturn Scart cable came in just now and hyped!
so pretty on the BVM =)

Looking good!

 

[davidwhangchoi]

Looking good!

thanks man!

 

[bodine1231]

Anyone interested in a Framemeister? I bought it on eBay to do some lag tests and don't need it now. I'll let it go for what I paid for it with free UPS ground shipping. ($375) Comes with JP21 and Euro Scart w/sync stripper.

 

[Triforce141]

RetroUSB released a news update about the AVS, they've started to ship them out

After almost 8 months of waiting, I finally get one, on the same day as the Nintendo Direct too

Anyone interested in a Framemeister? I bought it on eBay to do some lag tests and don't need it now. I'll let it go for what I paid for it with free UPS ground shipping. ($375) Comes with JP21 and Euro Scart w/sync stripper.

That's a pretty good deal considering that's the price you'd normally have to pay for the Framemeister by itself, and the sync stripper cable costs around an extra $30

 

[Shin Johnpv]

so excited crossposting:
my Saturn Scart cable came in just now and hyped!
so pretty on the BVM =)

Congrats dude!

 

[storafötter]

I thought I should ask here since you all are screen pixel experts.

There was something that felt a bit wrong with my Super Famicom when it comes to picture quality, and upon further inspection I can see that half of the screen has this weird "noise" or "grain". It is very visible when there is a dark or light coloured screen. The scanlines help to migitate the appearance but it kinda rubs me wrong.

I am guessing this might be a hardware problem? I admit I bought a modified SFC from ebay over a year ago, and using a generic power adapter that they sold in Akihabara. The video cable is a Csync Japanese Scart cable and I am playing through a Framemeister.

Is there a possibility of a simple fix, or my only choice is to replace with another Super Famicom. Not really interested in buying another SFC anytime soon, but I guess I have learned my lesson from buying modded consoles on ebay.

Heres some pics for your judgement:

Not very visible on this scene from Rockman and Bass: