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[Simply Sarah]

Well now, lets says a male-male high school student decided to identify as female, because he is a 16 year old doofus who wants to go in the 'girls room'...how do we weed out the creeps while not affecting the spirit of the rumored law decree?

I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??

Yes, it's not just something you declare randomly in the morning and roll with that day. Also because it would be social suicide for a high school boy to actually pull something like that regardless of what TV and movies might show.

 

[oti]

I thought this was just some media hype and nothing would really change. Glad I was wrong.

 

[Sciz]

Well now, lets says a male-male high school student decided to identify as female, because he is a 16 year old doofus who wants to go in the 'girls room'...how do we weed out the creeps while not affecting the spirit of the rumored law decree?

I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I can't imagine any teen putting up with the social pressure of publicly being trans just to get a look at the absolutely nothing that's visible in the girls' restroom.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I thought this was just some media hype and nothing would really change. Glad I was wrong.

Honestly, I assumed the same and I'm still not entirely convinced otherwise. Things can still slide back.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I can't imagine any teen putting up with the social pressure of publicly being trans just to get a look at the absolutely nothing that's visible in the girls' restroom.

You're not being naive. It's a dumb scenario that you'd only think is common if your view of the world is shaped only by immature teen comedies.

 

[GK86]

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I can't imagine any teen putting up with the social pressure of publicly being trans just to get a look at the absolutely nothing that's visible in the girls' restroom.

Beyond this, what is stopping a guy (or lady) from entering the bathroom anyway? The gender specific sign on the door?

 

[aeolist]

Honestly, I assumed the same and I'm still not entirely convinced otherwise. Things can still slide back.

one way or another things will change. federal agencies drawing a line in the sand like this doesn't happen easily, and it usually presages a massive shift.

 

[metalslimer]

one way or another things will change. federal agencies drawing a line in the sand like this doesn't happen easily, and it usually presages a massive shift.

Unless a republican wins the presidency and they drop the issue entirely

 

[Wray]

Seriously. Could Obama be more left? Yeah, I think most people could be. Is he a centrist or even center-left? Hell no.



In the end, we'll have two groups - one group that recognizes Obama as perhaps our greatest President, and another that is wrong

Obama is left on social issues. But certainly not on economic and foreign policy. Those are the big three, and I think people focus too much on the social stuff.

So he is center to center right on two out of the three. It's why I laugh when people call him a far left president.

And of course Obama Care is most definitely a center right piece of legislation. It was a Relublican idea for Christs sake.

 

[davepoobond]

Beyond this, what is stopping a guy (or lady) from entering the bathroom anyway? The gender specific sign on the door?

i know from personal experience there is usually an ominous door in front of it and a forcefield that disallows me from getting within 1 foot of said door. it might be pheromones.





i think its funny that all of a sudden these conservatives "understand" the difference between sex and gender so thoroughly to be able to object to it.

 

[Opto]

When someone who's cis and my gender peeps over the bathroom stall to look at my business, I oblige this accepted custom and provide a better view. But if an alleged cross dresser does that, that's just a line crossed

 

[IrishNinja]

'Straight into the paper shredder:' Texans the first to decry Obama’s schools directive about transgender bathrooms

texas stays holding that L & proudly chest-thumping about being on the wrong side of history

its beyond my comprehension how a sitting member of government can tweet about shredding this document and get supported for it.

what in the actual fuck.

something something rammed down throats

There are a lot of transgender people who A) don't have the resources to go through gender reassignment and B) don't feel that gender reassignment surgery is some sort of rite that's necessary to be valid as the gender they identify with.

preach

 

[Euphoria14]

As someone who has a transgender in the family, I am glad to see changes to make her more comfortable.

I know this is going to cause a shit storm though.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I'm honestly awestruck as to how strongly the federal govt. is coming in favor of trans rights. This is staggering.

WHY?! Obama is not an idiot. we all know what being on the wrong side of history looks like in hindsight and how would it look if the first black president of USA look if he took a big shit on another minority? Hes already made solid steps for gay people, this is logical (and fair)

 

[Clefargle]

This is great, I hope all the hype over this makes trump say something dumb for his base and alienate even more of the opposition or say something in line with what he said last time "they should use whichever one they want" and get bashed by the right over it. It's a politically lose-lose situation for him and I hope he gets squeezed over it.

 

[GK86]

WHY?! Obama is not an idiot. we all know what being on the wrong side of history looks like in hindsight and how would it look if the first black president of USA look if he took a big shit on another minority? Hes already made solid steps for gay people, this is logical (and fair)

What he is saying isn't that it's surprising that Obama/govt would come out in favor of it, but how fast Obama/govt have come out to defend the Transgender community.

 

[Sibylus]

WHY?! Obama is not an idiot. we all know what being on the wrong side of history looks like in hindsight and how would it look if the first black president of USA look if he took a big shit on another minority? Hes already made solid steps for gay people, this is logical (and fair)

Well-founded fear that momentum would be left to slow after marriage equality passed. No shortage of LGBT groups and communities that aren't even close to being as aggressively affirming of trans rights as the Obama administration has been. Major kudos.

 

[Sianos]

Harassing people is illegal regardless of your gender identity

The Republicans' obfuscatory excuse for opposing transgender rights masquerading as an "argument" fails based on this simple fact.

Considering they have no reasonimg besides plain bigotry and disingenuous hand-wringing with no basis in reality, this was not a wise hill for Republicans to die on - though I would say that about social conservatism in general.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I know it's not the popular opinion, but I'm not a fan of this. I believe you should use the bathroom that matches your biological sex. If you are transgender who hasn't gone through gender reassignment surgery then I don't think you should use the bathroom you identify with yet. Once you have done that I have absolutely no issue with going to the other bathroom. If they make it so you can just go wherever you feel like regardless of biological sex (Which is what other people see, no way to confirm you are transgender unless I know you personally or you make it really obvious), we should just make all bathrooms unisex and we won't have to worry about anything. I have no problem sharing bathrooms with the other gender.

Enjoy being on the wrong side of history with that reprehensible, bigoted view. You'll be more alone every day.

 

[Setsuna]

I say we get rid of marked restroom entirely. If someone needs to pee it doesn't matter what the rest room is labeled

 

[HStallion]

I always feel the whole,"are they pre or post op? That's what matters to me" line of thinking just reaks of ignorant arrogance. A lot of Trans folks might be doing a whole variety of things to feel more at home in their body from hormone treatments to cosmetic surgery to just using make up or clothing. The surgery doesn't define them and is not the only course of action and all of them are not something someone attempts in passing.

 

[Audioboxer]

I always feel the whole,"are they pre or post op? That's what matters to me" line of thinking just reaks of ignorant arrogance. A lot of Trans folks might be doing a whole variety of things to feel more at home in their body from hormone treatments to cosmetic surgery to just using make up or clothing. The surgery doesn't define them and is not the only course of action and all of them are not something someone attempts in passing.

Not to mention ANY sort of surgery has potential consequences, not to mention fucking genital reassignment. I've seen some people on documentaries genuinely terrified of surgery, but equally feeling pressured as society cares more about what is inbetween your legs. It can be heartbreaking and is yet another argument dogpiled on top of the others that causes discrimination/oppression and probably for trans people directly, depression.

 

[Version 3.0]

The most ridiculous part of this whole scenario is that nothing prompted it.

It's not like transgender people suddenly showed up in North Carolina last month. They were already in the population, and (I presume) using the restroom of their choice. There wasn't an assault in a NC school bathroom that became national news and led to its shitty law.

There was nothing. This whole thing is a non-issue. Or at least, it should be.

 

[Team Alucard]

The most ridiculous part of this whole scenario is that nothing prompted it..

Charlotte passing a LGBT non-discrimination ordinance is what prompted it.

The purpose of HB2 was to reverse the ordinance, and to prevent other cities from enacting similar ones in the future.

This whole thing is just a case of the shithole state legislature trying to prevent progress in the state's liberal cities.

 

[N.Domixis]

Obama is definitely going to be a president admired generations from now for starting the change. OTOH fuck conservatives.

 

[Version 3.0]

Charlotte passing a LGBT non-discrimination ordinance is what prompted it.

The purpose of HB2 was to reverse the ordinance, and to prevent other cities from enacting similar ones in the future.

This whole thing is just a case of the shithole state legislature trying to prevent progress in the state's liberal cities.

Yes, I know, but I'm afraid I can't classify that as a problem. I'm sure you agree, this is a solution to a fictional scenario, just like voter ID laws.

 

[Platy]

So many threads about those stuff that I don't even know where to post this but ..

LOVE the "let it be" one xD

 

[7DollarHagane]

This is great, I hope all the hype over this makes trump say something dumb for his base and alienate even more of the opposition or say something in line with what he said last time "they should use whichever one they want" and get bashed by the right over it. It's a politically lose-lose situation for him and I hope he gets squeezed over it.

One minor point in Trump's favor is he seems to think the government shouldn't tell people what bathroom to use or who to marry. Obviously a cherry on top of a shit sundae.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well now, lets says a male-male high school student decided to identify as female, because he is a 16 year old doofus who wants to go in the 'girls room'...how do we weed out the creeps while not affecting the spirit of the rumored law decree?

I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??

Does going to the bathroom with gay males make a straight male uncomfortable? How do weed out the gay creeps?

 

[Hylian7]

'Straight into the paper shredder:' Texans the first to decry Obama’s schools directive about transgender bathrooms

Good ol' Greg Abbott. We elected this guy. Two years ago. Somehow we got worse than Rick Perry.

 

[Cyan]

Well now, lets says a male-male high school student decided to identify as female, because he is a 16 year old doofus who wants to go in the 'girls room'...how do we weed out the creeps while not affecting the spirit of the rumored law decree?

I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??

Ok so to be clear, the worry here is that a "male-male" student will:
-come out to family and friends
-start seeing a gender therapist
-get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
-begin a treatment plan that may include hormone replacement therapy, voice training, etc. (possibly puberty blockers, depending on age)
-socially transition their gender

All in order to creep on girls in the bathroom?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

My gym has unisex toilets that are quite nice. They don't have stall doors, but they are closed rooms, so you can poop in peace. Nobody can look over and under.

Unisex toilets make toilet access harder for men and it removes the urinals, but I've noticed that unisex toilets are a lot cleaner.
Before the change to unisex toilets, they would be a fucking a mess. I mean... We're talking shit on the walls. Shit on top of the toilet. And it was a daily routine. Every week someone would clog the toilets with cheese burgers, use 5-10 rolls of toilet paper on the ground. It was just disgusting.


If you really think about it, unisex toilets make sense. And I don't think anybody is at risk of anyone more danger than anywhere else. I just don't understand the argument the republicans are making here. I hear their fears. a man could pose as a transgender and molest kids in the girls bathroom. That could happen, but why would that come down to transgender bathroom rules? that make no sense. molestation and rape doesn't appear in correlation to bathroom etiquette.


The whole thing is absurd, but I want to say that I really think toilets in the public space needs to strive for more privacy than many of the stall doors where you can peek through. That has nothing to do with gender based toilets, I just hate public toilets for that reason. You can hear other peoples poop hitting the water and they can hear yours. your pooping sync is embarassing.
I'm for unisex toilet. And I hope that in perhaps 100 or 200 years it will be a starship trooper situation where men and women will shower and change in the same vicinity as well. I'm optimistic that we will move past this bullshit.

 

[DrForester]

There's one thing that terrifies me.

It's not going to be a year before some transgendered kid is brought up on some trumped-up charges of sexual harassment or worse by another kid who was pressured into it by their family.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

indeed it will, as it should.


the best solution is honestly just you getting over it. there's going to be a rocky period while people get used to new ideas about sex and gender, but we can't let that push us towards discriminatory rules and laws. white people in the 60s had a really hard time using the same facilities as blacks after the civil rights act was passed, but they were just wrong and eventually understood that it wasn't a big deal.

Bathrooms are a comparatively "easy" fight, given their nature as secluded spaces, but I would not expect any politician to go to bat anytime soon for the idea that biological females need to "get over" their discomfort at an individual with a penis, whatever their internal gender identity and whether it has a biological, neurological basis or not, changing openly in a locker room with them. Even for those who cling to the idea that transgender individuals are just nuts, it would not be hard to argue, from a purely libertarian perspective, that they should be allowed to live their lives as they wish and that allowing them to pee and shit in a secluded stall doesn't impinge on others in a substantial way. Trying to convince people that all sex-based social separation needs to be rejiggered to be gender identity-based, on the grounds that the relatively small fuzzy area in which the biological sex binary blurs a bit obviates the rest of the spectrum to which people are attuned, where it doesn't break down it all, is quite a bit harder of a sell. As I said earlier in the thread, I could see common areas wherein nudity occurs being retooled to provide individual changing stalls before I could see that.

 

[GK86]

Ok so to be clear, the worry here is that a "male-male" student will:
-come out to family and friends
-start seeing a gender therapist
-get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
-begin a treatment plan that may include hormone replacement therapy, voice training, etc. (possibly puberty blockers, depending on age)
-socially transition their gender

All in order to creep on girls in the bathroom?

Sounds sooo easy, why wouldn't teens do it?

 

[patrickthehedgehog]

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/31963679/pn-g-isd-superintendent-on-obama-admins-transgender-letter-its-going-in-the-paper-shredder

The superintendent from my high school is hella pissed. LOL!!!!

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Good.

Civil-rights are not things that should be voted on or go through a democratic process.

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/31963679/pn-g-isd-superintendent-on-obama-admins-transgender-letter-its-going-in-the-paper-shredder

The superintendent from my high school is hella pissed. LOL!!!!

How does this thought process work? Do people like this honestly think straight guys are gonna go through a transitioning process just so that they can prey on girls in bathrooms? Like it's something you can just pick up and drop in 20 minutes?

 

[Platy]

Ok so to be clear, the worry here is that a "male-male" student will:
-come out to family and friends
-start seeing a gender therapist
-get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
-begin a treatment plan that may include hormone replacement therapy, voice training, etc. (possibly puberty blockers, depending on age)
-socially transition their gender

All in order to creep on girls in the bathroom?

Remembering that both puberty blockers and hormone therapy includes anti testosterone ,the same drug used for chemical castration of sex offenders but in HIGHER doses

 

[Alucrid]

the whole boys pretending to be transgender is so dumb. either they keep up the act and face the continued discrimination that transgender people face, or they give up their bullshit and say they're lying. that's assuming that they'll even pretend to be transgender and face the stigma that accompanies that just to sneak in to a bathroom.

 

[Sanjuro]

I still feel like we will have a solution to bathrooms before figuring out this mess.

 

[Team Alucard]

How does this thought process work? Do people like this honestly think straight guys are gonna go through a transitioning process just so that they can prey on girls in bathrooms? Like it's something you can just pick up and drop in 20 minutes?

This is their thought process:

Trans women = mentally ill gay men

Gay men = sexual predators

ergo

trans women = sexual predators.


Conservatives do not acknowledge the existence of transgender people. When they say they are worried about men preying on girls in the bathroom, they are literally talking about trans women. The trans women are the men they are referring to.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Ok so to be clear, the worry here is that a "male-male" student will:
-come out to family and friends
-start seeing a gender therapist
-get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
-begin a treatment plan that may include hormone replacement therapy, voice training, etc. (possibly puberty blockers, depending on age)
-socially transition their gender

All in order to creep on girls in the bathroom?

Huckabee would do it..

 

[KillGore]

It's 2016, why not just make all bathrooms unisex?

 

[Sanjuro]

Huckabee would do it..

Huckabee lives by the Klondike bar oath.

It's 2016, why not just make all bathrooms unisex?

Because people don't want this.

 

[timetokill]

It's 2016, why not just make all bathrooms unisex?

Because both men and women don't want this, overall.

Women because they don't want men in their restrooms, and men because women take forever and they'd probably lose urinals.

Personally I don't want them because women somehow wreck public restrooms even worse than guys do. Stop hovering, ladies!

 

[Sunset Samurai]

It's 2016, why not just make all bathrooms unisex?

I can't poop knowing there's a woman right next to me lol I'd be trying to be as gentle as I can pooping XD

 

[KillGore]

Because people don't want this.

Because both men and women don't want this, overall.

Women because they don't want men in their restrooms, and men because women take forever and they'd probably lose urinals.

Personally I don't want them because women somehow wreck public restrooms even worse than guys do. Stop hovering, ladies!

Yeah, I guess I understand but I'm sure that will come eventually. I remember when I was a kid and all changing rooms in stores were divided by gender, and look at were we are right now. I know, not entirely the same thing but I believe it's inevitable.

I can't poop knowing there's a woman right next to me lol I'd be trying to be as gentle as I can pooping XD

LOL

I cant poop if someone is on the stall next to me, regardless of gender.

 

[Choppasmith]

Saw a conversation in my Facebook feed that seems to be deleted now saying things like "Another reason to be homeschooled, can't have my kids being brainwashed into thinking this is okay" and "Would Obama go through with this if his daughters went to public schools?"

It makes you wonder what kind of posts we'd see if the internet existed during the civil rights movement.

 

[Eusis]

Saw a conversation in my Facebook feed that seems to be deleted now saying things like "Another reason to be homeschooled, can't have my kids being brainwashed into thinking this is okay" and "Would Obama go through with this if his daughters went to public schools?"

It makes you wonder what kind of posts we'd see if the internet existed during the civil rights movement.

It'd probably sound exactly the same.

Though there's the added dash of how one of these homeschooled children could turn around and end up transgender on them, especially if they're smart and keep it under cover until they're adults (or just don't realize until then and probably resent their parents for trying to beat it out of their heads, whichever.) Though I guess in the Civil Rights movement it'd be seen the same as mixed racial relationships.

 

[Purexed]

It's 2016, why not just make all bathrooms unisex?

Because it's 2016 and things like sexual harassment and sexual assault still exist.