Grimm Fandango
Member
Amazing this country has to go through all of this just so people can use the damn bathroom.
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Reuters: U.S. to issue decree on transgender access to school restrooms
- Thread starter GK86
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Audioboxer
Member
Genuine ignorance can be understood but when education is a plenty and we're talking individuals high up food chains in their professions, or worse in positions of education where they are in charge of students, there's no excuses.
Yep, even if it isnt an official new law it is still a very good thing.
And it only goes on to prove that the more you repress, the faster progress is introduced. That's why its so dumb that the governor of NC keeps trying to stand his ground. We are a socially liberal country now, that is in the process of slowly correcting the inequality that has been a staple of our society for so long.
Get used to it and change your ways for the better or get lost further in the sea of obscurity and irrelevance, GOP.
And it only goes on to prove that the more you repress, the faster progress is introduced. That's why its so dumb that the governor of NC keeps trying to stand his ground. We are a socially liberal country now, that is in the process of slowly correcting the inequality that has been a staple of our society for so long.
Get used to it and change your ways for the better or get lost further in the sea of obscurity and irrelevance, GOP.
Link
The Autumn Wind
He'll likely just use his "Leave it to the states" card like he always does when he flip-flops.
Ecto311
Member
Can't we just get bathrooms with nothing but stalls with doors in them and then take off the markers on the entry? Everyone can use whatever. I guess I don't know what goes on in ladies rooms but I would like a bathroom full of stalls. Makes it easier to vape or pick my nose while pissing.
EdibleKnife
Member
Strange to hear Abbot name drop the phrase rewriting Civil Rights when his goal is to deny that very thing to trans people. Anyway, they kicked and screamed when gay rights gained ground and even though gay people still have to fight hard, I can only hope the same knees buckle when it comes to trans rights.
From Greg Abbot (dunno who he is anyways) tweet: "I announced today that Texas is fighting this. Obama can't rewrite the Civil Rights Act. He's not a King"
Why can't Obama run for another term dammit.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
What's scary is this isn't an old problem (at least nowhere near as public). This is part of a concerted GOP effeort in reaction to gay marriage from the SCOTUS. This was brought in with the wave of religious liberty bills in states (mostly failed).
Anyone who says "the two parties are the same" should be immediately slapped.
Let's get on that, y'all!
The year is 2095.
A person tweets "Just stubbed my cybertoe! Thanks, God-Emperor Obama!"
RPGCrazied
Member
Of course my governor is on this. What a scumbag.
Team Alucard
Banned
Legally speaking he has a point. Federal civil rights legislation in this country provide no protections for gender identity, just sex. The DoJs interpretation that gender iddntity = sex could easily be stricken down depending on what courts these lawsuits go to.
I would love to be wrong, but I really think the Obama administration is going to take a huge L here. Of course he still deserves praise and admiration for taking this stand, regardless of the outcome.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Question:
I think this is a silly issue, who cares where transgendered people go to bathrooms. Can't believe the gop are willing to fight this.
That said, I'm curious about the legalities and technicalities.
So the worry is that a male student can pretend to be female to harass girls or whatever. While I agree that's a silly notion, how can Obama legally fight this?
If a boy does do that, could a school be legally in trouble if they suspend him? How can they prove that he's not Transgendered and just being a dick?
Btw this another example of why when I hear "states rights" I run for the hills lol.
I think this is a silly issue, who cares where transgendered people go to bathrooms. Can't believe the gop are willing to fight this.
That said, I'm curious about the legalities and technicalities.
So the worry is that a male student can pretend to be female to harass girls or whatever. While I agree that's a silly notion, how can Obama legally fight this?
If a boy does do that, could a school be legally in trouble if they suspend him? How can they prove that he's not Transgendered and just being a dick?
Btw this another example of why when I hear "states rights" I run for the hills lol.
Harassing people is illegal regardless of your gender identity
Team Alucard
Banned
Title IX bans discrimination based on sex in public education institutions. The DOJ is claiming that sex and gender identity are equivalent, and thus transgender individuals are entitled to using the bathroom that matches their gender identity.
EdibleKnife
Member
At the point that someone is actually harassed in the restroom, gender identity stops mattering because harassment already isn't legal. If someone feels harassed by a bathroom patron, they can report it now. There is no need for new laws in the first place because if you harass someone, claiming that your transgender isn't some sort of protection.
JetBlackPanda
Member
its beyond my comprehension how a sitting member of government can tweet about shredding this document and get supported for it.
what in the actual fuck.
what in the actual fuck.
RPGCrazied
Member
Isn't that a crime too?
I know it's not the popular opinion, but I'm not a fan of this. I believe you should use the bathroom that matches your biological sex. If you are transgender who hasn't gone through gender reassignment surgery then I don't think you should use the bathroom you identify with yet. Once you have done that I have absolutely no issue with going to the other bathroom. If they make it so you can just go wherever you feel like regardless of biological sex (Which is what other people see, no way to confirm you are transgender unless I know you personally or you make it really obvious), we should just make all bathrooms unisex and we won't have to worry about anything. I have no problem sharing bathrooms with the other gender.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
hah didn't think of that, you're right.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
So? They've been running that rhetoric for 8 years now, since even before he actually became president, despite the fact that he's generally been just about the most compromising, conciliatory, rational, and pragmatic Democratic president they could possibly have asked for.
He might as well just say fuck it and embrace that shit to get things done in his lame duck year, right? Especially when he knows there's a real good chance there's going to be a left leaning Supreme Court in the years ahead to make his policies stand up over time.
EdibleKnife
Member
There are a lot of transgender people who A) don't have the resources to go through gender reassignment and B) don't feel that gender reassignment surgery is some sort of rite that's necessary to be valid as the gender they identify with.
CrocMother
Banned
I wish everyone had the chance to have a conversation with a trans person.
So much of this stems from the ignorant belief that trans people don't even exist. That they are just people with mental disorders.
So much of this stems from the ignorant belief that trans people don't even exist. That they are just people with mental disorders.
DragonSworne
Banned
Isn't the goal of Republicans to defund public schools?
I think greatest is too strong (his drone program is gross), but hes definetely done a lot of good under impossible amounts of partisan stonewalling.
Vicetrailia
Member
This country is changing too fast for conservatives. The ones in power will do everything they can to better control the pace.
so you think being able to use the bathroom you feel most comfortable in should be gated by your access to extremely expensive medical procedures that are usually not covered by insurance and are often not advisable due to other health conditions, not to mention something that some trans people just don't feel is necessary
also let's be real here, even trans people who haven't had surgery very often "pass" and most people don't realize that they're trans. those people would be forced into using the men's room while appearing conventionally female or vice versa, which is also a bad solution.
short of totally gender neutral facilities the federal government's position is the only sane solution.
They'll only be happy if the pace is backwards.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
As long as people who don't like him and Dan Patrick don't vote, they will be in office.
Simply Sarah
Member
I had to stop reading Rod when he went from occasional disapproving posts on queer issue into like a third of his posts being wildly anti-queer rants about how we want to destroy religion and society and everything.
A couple things in response to this:
First, as stated above, not all of us can get or even want to get bottom surgery so this would forever lock many, if not most, of us into what we consider to be the wrong bathroom. This is especially true for trans men since bottom surgery for them still isn't really where most of them want it to be.
I could also get into the complexity of "biological sex" but I think that's neither here nor there in this case.
Second, and more importantly to cis (non-trans) folk, forcing us to use the bathroom matching our current genital state will tend to cause more anxiety and stress for everyone and not less. It wouldn't stop us from changing how we present to match how we identify and it wouldn't stop those of us old enough for HRT to do that if we want to, meaning that while our genitals may not change the rest of our body will.
As a result you'll end up with people that, outside of what is between our legs, look and act like the gender we identify with. This includes people that look, sound, and act like what people generally consider to be men being forced into the women's room and people that look, sound, and act like what people generally consider to be women being forced into the men's room (and a large number of people that may not always 100% "pass" but regardless still present one way or another). This all would just make things even more messy. The reality is that many (most? almost all?) people have encountered someone trans and never even realized it. We've been using the restroom for the gender we ID with for a long time. It's just that people often don't realize it.
I agree it's a hard process, it should be covered with insurance. Bathrooms aren't that big of an issue for me but I am worried this will lead to a precedent for other things that are traditionally seperated by biological sex. Locker rooms, changing rooms, spas, etc.
Someone indistinguishable physically from a man changing in a woman's locker room, or vice verse, makes me extremely uncomfortable. I don't think the solution is as simple as letting you pick whatever you associate with. It's a really tough issue and I'm not sure what the best solution is.
indeed it will, as it should.
the best solution is honestly just you getting over it. there's going to be a rocky period while people get used to new ideas about sex and gender, but we can't let that push us towards discriminatory rules and laws. white people in the 60s had a really hard time using the same facilities as blacks after the civil rights act was passed, but they were just wrong and eventually understood that it wasn't a big deal.
i mean let's be clear here, now that this issue is in the national consciousness there are only two ways we can go: either we persecute an already heavily disadvantaged minority or we don't. there's no middle road here and no way for everyone to be happy. trans people deserve equal protection under the law and those who have a problem with that will eventually either get over it or spend the rest of their lives angry and afraid.
Again, the Obama administration's definition has already been upheld in the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Pankratous
Member
Whilst it might be seen as pandering to the bigots, I always feel like this issue would be better sorted by just introducting unisex toilets.
As a society we need to breakdown many barriers and that solution would help break down quite a few, whilst also solving the gender identity issue.
As a society we need to breakdown many barriers and that solution would help break down quite a few, whilst also solving the gender identity issue.
Sunset Samurai
Member
All this just to use a restroom stall? Just let the transgender community use what stalls they want. Is it that such a big deal? When I was in highschool we had 3 transgender classmates and they used the women's restroom. No one cared at all and that was 5 years ago
Tough call. All of our "greatest" presidents have something awful attached to their administration. Maybe top 5 for Obama, at the moment.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Well now, lets says a male-male high school student decided to identify as female, because he is a 16 year old doofus who wants to go in the 'girls room'...how do we weed out the creeps while not affecting the spirit of the rumored law decree?
I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??
I assume perhaps parents / guardians / etc will need to attest to the gender ID 'change'??
this is not something that has ever happened in places where trans equal rights laws are in place.
also inappropriate behavior in the bathroom can and will still be punished. allowing trans people into the bathroom does not legalize molestation or rape.
Suspend the child? Harassment isn't okay for any gender.
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