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[Shrike_Priest]

No I get that. But how long does that trickle down take? 10 years?

10 years of no one being able to protect themselves?

What should I do if someone breaks into my house to rob me in the night? Punch them?

I'm not trying to be combative, honestly asking how that would work

If someone is trying to rob your house while they are home and you're awake, close the door to your room and call the police. If you have children, get to them and lock the door after you. If you can't avoid the criminal, say, "Take what you want and get out, the police are on their way".

Then you cash in on the insurance. No one dies, and your family won't be subjected to the risk of having a gun in their house.

It literally is more common for guns being used to harm the owner or the family than being used to ward off home invaders.

There are billions of people living without guns to protect themselves. They don't all fall prey to burglars wanting to hurt them.

 

[Sax1031]

lol

ain't nobody givin up they guns dude

 

[BokehKing]

If someone is trying to rob your house while they are home and you're awake, close the door to your room and call the police. If you have children, get to them and lock the door after you. If you can't avoid the criminal, say, "Take what you want and get out, the police are on their way".

Then you cash in on the insurance. No one dies, and your family won't be subjected to the risk of having a gun in their house.

It literally is more common for guns being used to harm the owner or the family than being used to ward off home invaders.

There are billions of people living without guns to protect themselves. They don't all fall prey to burglars wanting to hurt them.

Billions of those people don't live in the United Syates were there is a illegal gun problem, that idea up above may work elsewhere, but what is closing a door going to do? Any door in a house can be opened with a credit card or just destroyed. I commend your restraint but things don't go that smoothly when someone breaks in your house, chances are you're not thinking rationale at all. Shit at least grab a bat and be ready to bash this guy's head in, he is in your house with your family.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

So there is 2,500 less violent criminals in there? Non violent criminals? Not everyone is in there for robbery.

You said it doesn't work, period.

Try again.

 

[Nipo]

If someone is trying to rob your house while they are home and you're awake, close the door to your room and call the police. If you have children, get to them and lock the door after you. If you can't avoid the criminal, say, "Take what you want and get out, the police are on their way".

Then you cash in on the insurance. No one dies, and your family won't be subjected to the risk of having a gun in their house.

It literally is more common for guns being used to harm the owner or the family than being used to ward off home invaders.


There are billions of people living without guns to protect themselves. They don't all fall prey to burglars wanting to hurt them.

And if they decide they want to rape your wife and kids in addition to robbing you?

We get a couple stories like this a year in the area
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...7629f0-2807-11e6-ae4a-3cdd5fe74204_story.html

 

[BokehKing]

You said it doesn't work, period.

Try again.

Really man? Because a non violent criminal is already a productive member of society they probably got caught doing stupid shit (like smoking weed or not paying their taxes). You really didn't prove much with that link and pretty much plugging your ears with the latest response.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Really man? Because a non violent criminal is already a productive member of society they probably got caught doing stupid shit (like smoking weed or not paying their taxes). You really didn't prove much with that link and pretty much plugging your ears with the latest response.

Just quoting the guy that spoke in absolutes:

I can't talk to you about this because it deals with hypotheticals, agreeing to play by your rules we won't talk hypotheticals. before we even get to what you quoted above, the criminal would have to be arrested, which would involve him complying and not having any sudden movements that would draw the fire of the police.

In case you missed this response by another user after I made that statement, I'll present that to you here.

There is no rehab in jail, do you know people who go in and out of jail, do you know what they do in jail? Networking, they come home with a list of phone numbers on the torn off side of a Ritz crackers box and they get in contact with their cell mates friends, get themselves in more trouble.

Or they come home and go right back to hanging out with the knumbskulls that are still living that illegal lifestyle and get himself caught up in some shit again.

There is no rehab in prison.

...who was absolutely wrong.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

Billions of those people don't live in the United Syates were there is a illegal gun problem, that idea up above may work elsewhere, but what is closing a door going to do?

Introduce a significant obstacle for the perp, and massively raise the risk/reward-ratio of him coming into contact with you. I'm not saying you hide and wait for the door to be forced open, shout that the police are on their way.

But de-escalating is safer than confrontation.

Any half decent burglar would just bolt the second they realize someone is in the house. Anyone who, knowing that the the police are on their way, still tries to force themselves into a locked room to hurt you is a statistical anomaly. But movies and propaganda make us think they're really common. They're not. Oh, and btw, criminals have guns in other countries too.

Any door in a house can be opened with a credit card or just destroyed. I commend your restraint but things don't go that smoothly when someone breaks in your house, chances are you're not thinking rationale at all. Shit at least grab a bat and be ready to bash this guy's head in, he is in your house with your family.

Which is how people get shot.

Sure, bring the bat with you when you lock yourself in. Get violent if he comes in contact with you. Knock him the fuck out. But, looking for trouble is not a great idea. But having a gun makes you more confrontational, you go looking for trouble. And more people get hurt. Including "responsible gun owners" themselves.

 

[mrkgoo]

The type of person who would carry a gun on them at all times is the type of person looking for an excuse to use it.

One of the most on point comments.

Unless US is so far gone, that it really is a necessity for the common person.

 

[Peltz]

So he followed the guy, shouted to make him turn around, then shot him?

That's not self defence.

I wouldn't go that far. This is still likely a self defense case.

 

[kaching]

Billions of those people don't live in the United Syates were there is a illegal gun problem

What's the illegal gun problem got to do with it? Far more people are killed in their homes due to accidental discharge of LEGAL firearms they legitimately own than robbers have been successfully fended off by those same guns. Add in suicide and crimes of passion as a result of those legally owned firearms, and home defense looks like an even more pathetic excuse.

And if we're talking about responsible gun owners (we are, right?) then of course those guns they're gonna use to defend themselves are locked up in a safe and not loaded at the time someone decide's to break-in and rob the place. So, yeah, they might as well just reach for a bat at that point, for all the good a gun is gonna do.

 

[JayTapp]

Can't imagine anything worth killing someone over.

You really don't have a good imagination then...

 

[karasu]

Its always a place like the Waffle House that has those concealed carry people in it.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Unnecessary?

I'm not gonna lose sleep if the kind of person who would acquire an AK47 and rob innocent people bites the dust

Like, there is no way that was a good person, a decent human being

And? No one deserves death. He should have been tried by the system, prosecuted, and given a sentence proportionate to his crime. All of which would have happened had the shooter not "feared for his wife's safety", a justification I find dubious, went after the shooter, and risked his own life to kill someone who already was not threatening anyone else.

I'm not losing sleep over the robber dying. But what the shooter did was wrong. Both of them are wrong.

 

[BokehKing]

Just quoting the guy that spoke in absolutes:



...who was absolutely wrong.

You know we are talking about violent offenders right?

Introduce a significant obstacle for the perp, and massively raise the risk/reward-ratio of him coming into contact with you. I'm not saying you hide and wait for the door to be forced open, shout that the police are on their way.

But de-escalating is safer than confrontation.

Any half decent burglar would just bolt the second they realize someone is in the house. Anyone who, knowing that the the police are on their way, still tries to force themselves into a locked room to hurt you is a statistical anomaly. But movies and propaganda make us think they're really common. They're not. Oh, and btw, criminals have guns in other countries too.



Which is how people get shot.

Sure, bring the bat with you when you lock yourself in. Get violent if he comes in contact with you. Knock him the fuck out. But, looking for trouble is not a great idea. But having a gun makes you more confrontational, you go looking for trouble. And more people get hurt. Including "responsible gun owners" themselves.

I rather my family survive and not play the pacifist which would just further encourage the robber, but please fear monger me with statistics about how my whole family will die by self inflicted gunshot wounds. You're assuming a lot. First of all if I had a gun I would not leave my families side, idk what makes you think I'll go out into the house like John Rambo

What I do know is I'm shooting anything that tries to come through that door.


Bonus question: do you think I like the fact that I own a gun? That I get off on it? We live in a fucked up world, and our economy sucks so I can't afford to move into some ritzy neighborhood with patrolling security guards and gates. My neighbors have bars on their window man. So yeah whatever, you do you and I'll do me.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Glad one gun totting robber is off the street.

You know we are talking about violent offenders right?

I rather my family survive and not play the pacifist which would just further encourage the robber, but please fear monger me with statistics about how my whole family will die by self inflicted gunshot wounds. You're assuming a lot. First of all if I had a gun I would not leave my families side, idk what makes you think I'll go out into the house like John Rambo

What I do know is I'm shooting anything that tries to come through that door.

How dare you use justifiable force to defend your family, you monster!

And? No one deserves death. He should have been tried by the system, prosecuted, and given a sentence proportionate to his crime. All of which would have happened had the shooter not "feared for his wife's safety", a justification I find dubious, went after the shooter, and risked his own life to kill someone who already was not threatening anyone else.

I'm not losing sleep over the robber dying. But what the shooter did was wrong. Both of them are wrong.

Shooting someone threatening people with a gun is perfectly viable self defense option. In a perfect world he wouldn't have committed armed robbery but here we are....

 

[PAULINK]

And? No one deserves death. He should have been tried by the system, prosecuted, and given a sentence proportionate to his crime. All of which would have happened had the shooter not "feared for his wife's safety", a justification I find dubious, went after the shooter, and risked his own life to kill someone who already was not threatening anyone else.

I'm not losing sleep over the robber dying. But what the shooter did was wrong. Both of them are wrong.

two wrongs make a right.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It's a CC wish-fulfillment fantasy come to fruition. Congrats!

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

How dare you use justifiable force to defend your family, you monster!



Shooting someone threatening people with a gun is perfectly viable self defense option. In a perfect world he wouldn't have committed armed robbery but here we are....

Where was the self-defense in this story? Chasing after the robber and provoking a fight ?

 

[Kagutaba]

It doesn't matter if the shooter planned on shooting this guy or not. The point is that he was needlessly escalating an already defused situation by introducing another gun into the mix. This puts both him and the criminal in the wrong here. This is what the vast majority of us have a problem with. Common sense is not an "agenda".

He didn't escalate. He was within his legal rights to pursue and call out to the robber, citizen's arrest is legal and not a provocation or an escalation. The robber is the one escalating the situation by aiming a rifle at the shooter.

Is it an escalation for an armed police officer to try to stop or arrest an armed robber? No it is not, the law allows for it. It's also not an escalation for a civilian trying to do the same, the law allows for that too. He is not a vigilante.

 

[Kaiterra]

I swear I read this exact same story a few months ago.

 

[Tangeroo]

'Already diffused' is a hypothetical. The man had legitimate fear for his wife apparently, and who's to say a man who was cavalier enough to rob a Waffle House with an AK-47 wasn't planning on hitting a restaurant down the street next? My guesses are as plausible as your guesses...unless of course, you have some sort of assurances he was going to go home to count his Waffle House dollars and go to bed.

Good on the citizen, and I am glad that the laws exist to protect him from prosecution. Anyone feels so strongly against it, as you mostly seem to...move to Texas and work on changing the laws pertaining to 'stand your ground' protections. Pretty simple stuff.

I'm applying Occam's Razor here. Robbers don't go door to door after they've successfully pulled off a robbery. They get in and they get out. Dude was clearly on his way out. Your guesses of him going to another restaurant down the street is not *nearly* as plausible as mine.

To your second part, I grew up in Texas as a minority. I voted to attempt to change the asinine laws and was overwhelmingly beaten by the conservative right all around me. I left because I no longer felt comfortable in that environment. I ended up moving to an environment that was more welcoming of minorities and progressive mindsets. I find it hilarious that you think uprooting your life to move to a community that treats you with hostility to change it for the better is "pretty simple stuff".

He didn't escalate. He was within his legal rights to pursue and call out to the robber, citizen's arrest is legal and not a provocation or an escalation. The robber is the one escalating the situation by aiming a rifle at the shooter.

Is it an escalation for an armed police officer to try to stop or arrest an armed robber? No it is not, the law allows for it. It's also not an escalation for a civilian trying to do the same, the law allows for that too. He is not a vigilante.

No, it's not an escalation for an armed police officer to attempt to stop an armed robber because that's his job. It's not a civilian's job and it's absolutely escalation for him to do the same. The law only allows for it in self-defense. Once the shooter willfully followed the robber off of the premises, it turned into a needless escalation and a willful disregard for public safety.

 

[n0razi]

Damn, an AK-47 is probably overkill for robbing a Waffle House

Not in Texas

 

[Agent_ShortBus]

How the hell does one even get an AK-47, and wow at that customer challenging a man with an assault rifle.

Real easy, just walk into a gun store pick one out wait 30 days come back and pick it up if you pass the background check.

I actually bought an AK-47 as an impulse buy when I went to the range for the first time with a friend 3 years ago. Crazy how easy it is to buy guns. Although with the new laws coming into effect in CA soon I might just sell it if I can make some good money on it.

 

[BokehKing]

Robber probably could have got more money from selling the AK-47

 

[Piggus]

The citizen gives me the impression I get from most conservative gun owners. He bought a gun and couldn't wait to shoot someone with it.

I'm a liberal gun owner. Where to I fit into your broad generalizations?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You know we are talking about violent offenders right?

What part of "there is no rehab in prison" made that distinction?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Where was the self-defense in this story? Chasing after the robber and provoking a fight ?

State allows armed citizens to do so after an armed robbery. Hence why he wasn't arrested. I'm not weeping when a guy who takes a chopper to go rob folks gets popped. He'd have ended up shooting an innocent person at some point. Glad he won't be able to do that.

Real easy, just walk into a gun store pick one out wait 30 days come back and pick it up if you pass the background check.

I actually bought an AK-47 as an impulse buy when I went to the range for the first time with a friend 3 years ago. Crazy how easy it is to buy guns. Although with the new laws coming into effect in CA soon I might just sell it if I can make some good money on it.

I got my Saiga sporter in NY. But it's totally not an AK 47 even though it's manufactured in the same factory and fires the same bullets. But hey it doesn't have that scary pistol grip so it's safe.....

 

[Anticol]

gotta defend that property man even if it means taking a life thank god nobody's iphone was hurt

Really, so just because in this case he didn't hurt anyone then they had to let him go, really thats your argument?
Are things as bad in the us that you let criminals do what they want as long as they dont kill people?

 

[Keasar]

So, to summarize.
He followed the guy out after the robbery was over as the guy was gonna make his escape and posed the least threat to anyone in the vicinity. Called out to him so that the man got provoked and pointed his rifle at him and therefore increased the threat to people around. And then he shot the man?

This was to protect his wife, whom I may point out he did NOT call and say "Hey honey, there was just a robbery here, everyone is fine, the robber took off, could you wait away and not come near the place for a little while until the police arrive?"

"That was...He was on my ground! You all saw that right? Everything inside the red line is mine!"

 

[Sax1031]

posed the least threat.

apparently the person with the assault rifle threatening people is actually the most peaceful person around.

 

[Gragen]

I wonder how long it's going to be for the documentary called "2016" to be released.

 

[Apollo]

story sounds like BS. If guy aims assault riffle at guy why would he let the customer pull his gun out and shoot him? The guy got guys attention and have him turn around and he shot him....that's what happened.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

posed the least threat.

apparently the person with the assault rifle threatening people is actually the most peaceful person around.

I love when people can concoct fantasies in their head of what they wanted people to say so they can "win" an argument with no one.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I wonder how long it's going to be for the documentary called "2016" to be released.

Probably in 2050.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

I rather my family survive and not play the pacifist which would just further encourage the robber, but please fear monger me with statistics about how my whole family will die by self inflicted gunshot wounds.

But, that is what the statistics say. There are no countering statistics which show the reverse. There have been countless studies done on gun safety, and the vast majority point in the direction of guns making us less safe. It's not scare mongering.

You're assuming a lot. First of all if I had a gun I would not leave my families side, idk what makes you think I'll go out into the house like John Rambo

First of all, I thought we were talking about a hypothetical. I honestly did not picture you personally or your family in those examples. As for the assumption of going John Rambo, that was just because I assumed that was the opposite behavior to locking yourself in. I assumed that when you wrote "what's a door going to do" (or something like that), you were advocating NOT locking yourself in but rather confronting the assailant. If your suggestion was to lock yourself in BUT have a gun as backup, I'd say that's a far better option than going John Rambo. But still more dangerous than not having a gun.

What I do know is I'm shooting anything that tries to come through that door.

So, potentially, someone who's not a burglar? You just said you're not going to be thinking rationally during a home invasion. This is my point. People aren't always rational, and when guns enter the mix, irrational decisions can have permanent results.

Bonus question: do you think I like the fact that I own a gun? That I get off on it? We live in a fucked up world, and our economy sucks so I can't afford to move into some ritzy neighborhood with patrolling security guards and gates. My neighbors have bars on their window man. So yeah whatever, you do you and I'll do me.

No, I don't think so. You're doing a pretty good job of convincing me you don't. But, that doesn't change the fact that the statistics show what they show. People with guns are more likely to be shot. Guns in households are more likely to be used to harm the family than a burglar. The statistics aren't fuzzy on this. I'm not saying YOU will do something irresponsible with YOUR gun. We're talking about society here. And I can't see how one can argue for guns as safety when the statistics say what they say.

You do what you have to do to keep your family safe.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Its always a place like the Waffle House that has those concealed carry people in it.

There may well be a link between number of gun crimes in a country, and number of waffle houses in a country. Certainly America has an abundance of both. We need to see the ratio for everywhere else.

 

[bootsthecat]

To your second part, I grew up in Texas as a minority. I voted to attempt to change the asinine laws and was overwhelmingly beaten by the conservative right all around me. I left because I no longer felt comfortable in that environment. I ended up moving to an environment that was more welcoming of minorities and progressive mindsets. I find it hilarious that you think uprooting your life to move to a community that treats you with hostility to change it for the better is "pretty simple stuff".

Occams razor ain't statistics, but whatever.

I never said actually accomplishing changing those laws is 'pretty simple', and it's unfortunate to hear your campaign for said changes didn't work out. That is about as much as an uphill battle as there is, considering the prevailing mindset in that state; that doesn't change the very simple fact that being able to accomplish such change in the face of adversity of that magnitude, is the only way those laws will change. Not too hilarious of a concept to me. But hey, keep fighting the good fight on neogaf, if it helps you vent.

 

[War Eagle]

As a gun rights advocate, I also see it as a chance to help even a few people better understand firearms so we can make some intelligent changes in the future to reduce gun violence.

Same here. It just gets old getting personally attacked by people like uncelesteal above when just trying to have a civil discussion. He'll, up until last summer I was EXTREMELY left wing on the topic, to the point of striking down the second amendment. A crazy situation arose where I strongly felt that I needed to protect myself so I started researching guns and looking at things from the other side of the fence and here we are. It's not as black and white as so many folks here think.

 

[Agent_ShortBus]

State allows armed citizens to do so after an armed robbery. Hence why he wasn't arrested. I'm not weeping when a guy who takes a chopper to go rob folks gets popped. He'd have ended up shooting an innocent person at some point. Glad he won't be able to do that.



I got my Saiga sporter in NY. But it's totally not an AK 47 even though it's manufactured in the same factory and fires the same bullets. But hey it doesn't have that scary pistol grip so it's safe.....

I honestly don't really know why I bought the gun, maybe because I could?? I don't know, I do know I wouldn't miss it if I had to give it up, I haven't shot it in about 5 months mostly because I'm tied up with other things but I don't ever feel the need to shoot it. I do like seeing the faces of the NRA people who also go to the same range as I walk in with an ammo can plastered with Girls und Panzer anime decals and love live cell key chains on the end of the gun. I'll try posting pics of them but I'm on mobile.

 

[dallow_bg]

Pretty gross story.
Odd that I haven't seen it on local news.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I swear I read this exact same story a few months ago.

Cause you did, I linked it earlier in this thread. No one has said it is the same person...but sounds like the exact same description and same exact crime.

http://wncn.com/2016/04/03/nc-waffl...robber-carrying-ak-47-style-rifle-police-say/

Police described the suspect as a black man, 18 to 25 years old, with a light complexion, 5’09” – 5’11” tall, with a thin build and dread locks.

A customer at a North Carolina Waffle House fought back against a would-be robber who was armed with an AK-47 style rifle early Saturday, Fayetteville police say.

From the situation in TX:

Officers arrived to find the suspect shot in the parking lot. He is currently on life support at a local hospital. Police said he is a 25- or 26-year-old black man with numerous tattoos. He is between 6-feet-1 and 6-feet-2-inches tall and weighs between 180 and 190 lbs.

The robbery and shooting happened around 2:30 a.m. on July 7 at the Waffle House in the 1500 block of N. I-35 service road. Police said the suspect entered the Waffle House with an AK-47 rifle and robbed several customers.

Pictures of him in the hospital looks like he also has dreadlocks.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/173255270-story

Images might be considered graphic to some.

 

[Kagutaba]

No, it's not an escalation for an armed police officer to attempt to stop an armed robber because that's his job. It's not a civilian's job and it's absolutely escalation for him to do the same. The law only allows for it in self-defense. Once the shooter willfully followed the robber off of the premises, it turned into a needless escalation and a willful disregard for public safety.

Are you not confusing a citizen's arrest and all that entails with self defence laws? Him 'wilfully' following and calling out to the robber is allowed for under laws regarding citizen's arrest, it is not an escalation. As I said the only one really escalating the situation is the robber that responded to the shooter's call by pointing the rifle at him.

 

[The Beard]

If someone is trying to rob your house while they are home and you're awake, close the door to your room and call the police. If you have children, get to them and lock the door after you. If you can't avoid the criminal, say, "Take what you want and get out, the police are on their way".

Then you cash in on the insurance. No one dies, and your family won't be subjected to the risk of having a gun in their house.

It literally is more common for guns being used to harm the owner or the family than being used to ward off home invaders.

There are billions of people living without guns to protect themselves. They don't all fall prey to burglars wanting to hurt them.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.

People need to be allowed to protect themselves in their own homes, and not be expected to hide in their closet and hope they don't get killed.

 

[Tangeroo]

Occams razor ain't statistics, but whatever.

I never said actually accomplishing changing those laws is 'pretty simple', and it's unfortunate to hear your campaign for said changes didn't work out. That is about as much as an uphill battle as there is, considering the prevailing mindset in that state; that doesn't change the very simple fact that being able to accomplish such change in the face of adversity of that magnitude, is the only way those laws will change. Not too hilarious of a concept to me. But hey, keep fighting the good fight on neogaf, if it helps you vent.

I'm just going to quote this part one more time for clarification:

Anyone feels so strongly against it, as you mostly seem to...move to Texas and work on changing the laws pertaining to 'stand your ground' protections. Pretty simple stuff.

What part of "moving to Texas and work on changing the laws" is "pretty simple stuff"?

Unfortunately, the Bureau of Justice Statistics doesn't keep tabs on how often restaurant robbers immediately go down the street to rob another restaurant so we just have to go with common sense on this one. If you legitimately think that it's more likely that this is what his plans were, I can't change your mind. Agree to disagree.

To the second point, this is a discussion board. Having a disagreement on a discussion board doesn't negate all other efforts to affect social change. I don't suddenly void my voter registration because you and I don't agree on what constitutes vigilantism and what does not.

 

[mkenyon]

But, that is what the statistics say. There are no countering statistics which show the reverse. There have been countless studies done on gun safety, and the vast majority point in the direction of guns making us less safe. It's not scare mongering.

The thing about life and death situations, is that they aren't just statistics. Every situation is a unique story. It might sound trite, but liberty is not something that is measured in value by utilitarian statistics. Above all else, it gives people a sense of agency, which is a central aspect of our entire cultural structure.

Besides, you don't just sit around and pass laws on anything that is deemed unsafe, which is the principal of your argument.

 

[jchap]

A life of crime is a risky one!

 

[jmizzal]

Damn, an AK-47 is probably overkill for robbing a Waffle House

Lol yea why are you robbing a Waffle house if you have a AK-47, step your game up playa

 

[Tangeroo]

Are you not confusing a citizen's arrest and all that entails with self defence laws? Him 'wilfully' following and calling out to the robber is allowed for under laws regarding citizen's arrest, it is not an escalation. As I said the only one really escalating the situation is the robber that responded to the shooter's call by pointing the rifle at him.

Legally, I stand corrected. I didn't realize that Rick Perry had signed a bill removing the duty to retreat in 2007. I had no idea that this kind of behavior (ie - a citizen's rights to actively pursue and apply deadly force to a fleeing criminal) was allowed. I still disagree with the principal of it as I believe that public safety comes first, but you are absolutely correct.

 

[Astral Dog]

Wow, he was brave.