shockingly, fanboys crying over "low" review scores for their beloved games (that they haven't even played yet) has always been a thing, and will always be a thing.
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Rooster Teeth berate Jeff Gerstmann/Giant Bomb's Fallout 4 review while...
- Thread starter Messofanego
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shockingly, fanboys crying over "low" review scores for their beloved games (that they haven't even played yet) has always been a thing, and will always be a thing.
ReginaldXIV
Member
This is true for most modern people lately, even in more serious forms of media. People only follow people they agree with on every point in social media, they only read or watch from news outlets that align with their own outlook on life.
How can anyone find their sense of self living in an echo chamber?
Haunted
Member
3/5 is not a low score either.
HellofaMouse
Member
i said this in another f4 thread as well, but i grew up gaming on sh.tty pcs my whole life, and i just didnt feel like f4 is that bad on ps4. it didnt take anything away from my enjoyment of the game, plain and simple.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
Having integrity tends to put you at odds with the system! Remember when he get fired from Gamespot for not changing a review score for Kayne and Lynch? Jeff has been a part of the online video games press since the beginning, and helped pioneer it in many ways. His integrity is beyond question. He has always spoke mind and I think he should be applauded for being upfront and honest.
PedroPanache
Member
You know, I can see it from their side to a certain extent, in much younger days it was something I was guilty of, but you grow it and recognise that other opinions than your own are much, much more interesting than reading an article/review that basically validates your own opinion. Still, I worry that it's now becoming increasingly difficult for gamers to grow out of that habit with the way the internet works and how modern games are reflected through the prism of this uneasy media/publisher alliance. I found it incredible that so many people were pissed off in the Kotaku thread about them revealing Fallout 4 before the marketing blitz officially kicked in.
Bruh Jeffs been swinging at terrible games for a minute
Dari Elxix
Banned
This is amazing!
Yes, but you're not reviewing the game. This type of issue shouldn't be ignored by reviewers simply because it DOES impact the experience for many players.
Spiritwalker
Member
well this is fucking hilarious
For Giantbomb it isn't but the problem is people look at that and convert it to a 6/10 which is just silly their star review scale doesn't really work like that.
BlastProcessing
Member
They didn't hurt your enjoyment completely, but I assume you would have preferred they weren't there at all. How would you rate your experience on a scale of 1 to 5?
HellofaMouse
Member
im not saying they should ignore it, im saying the technical problems dont warrant the loss of a star.
and i realise its a personal opinion. thats why i think losing your shit over review scores is pointless, cuz it always comes down to personal opinion, even when you are talking about cold hard facts and purely technical details..
seriously? technical problems impact the playability of the game. it's not like we're talking about boxart or something that can be easily ignored.
Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with being on the internet and still voicing your dissenting opinions with some damn decency? All that aggression for what? Virtua Fighter 3?
Yeah, you are a very small minority then. I don't know many gamers that wouldn't consider technical aspects as part of a games review score. It's not like its a new thing either, technical performance has been a part of game review since we were reading them in magazines in the late 80's.
We had GAF thread like a year ago where we just dug up tons of newsgroup gaming conversations about console wars back then. It was incredible. Nothing ever changes man.
The one where this fanboy called Nintendo "NoFundo" just destroyed me
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk8hxjpnUiw
This is still my favorite cockbite thing
This is still my favorite cockbite thing
IaN_GAF
Member
With all due respect, I would argue that a 6 out of 10 is also not a low score, so I feel the conversion works.
Ontopic, I can only hope that these Rooster Tooth people will once realise how silly they look.
TheFNEffecT
Member
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Disagree. Much like when Arthur Gies whinged about the sexuality in Bayonetta: If it negatively affects the reviewer's enjoyment of the game it warrants a lower score. Their score is meant to reflect their enjoyment of the game, after all. And in this case there's even an objective way to measure the problems, not something subjective like "too much sex." There's no inherent problem with this.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Oh my god, this one comment slayed me:
"He gave Zelda a perfect score, completely overlooking all of its
graphic glitches, including glitches in texturing, repeating textures,
and some obscene frame rate hits and slowdown.
Gerstmann is so pro-N64 that it isn't even remotely funny. His
agenda is almost as inflated as his ego. I consider anything written by
him to be immediately discountable."
PedroPanache
Member
The larger problem here is that we're still distilling reviews into scores and nothing else. Technical problems have a measurable, negative impact on the experience. When it works, it's beautiful, one of the best games I've played in years. When it doesn't and something as simple as a door opening not triggering for some reason you can't fathom, it impacts my enjoyment. I don't think distilling that experience into whether it deserves to "lose a star" or not adds any depth to the conversation, and in fact it detracts when we put the "review score" on a pedestal. We're ignoring context because these reviews aren't written in a bubble, the games don't exist in and of themselves. What makes Fallout 4 less impressive is the fact that the glitches and bugs haven't been addressed since Fallout 3, they still exist, perhaps even more so now than ever. That's worth discussing. What isn't worth discussing is humming and hawing as to whether a star should be lost over that fact. The further we can move away from that line of thinking, the better.
Earthpainting
Member
The thread made me look up the review, and to my surprise it wasn't a scathing score. The review content itself felt fair and on-point as well. I've never heard of Rooster Teeth, but I suggest they shouldn't take reviews so personally.
If there's one thing I've learned from listening to the Bombcast and his reviews history, he's not really a guy with a vindictive or clickbait-driven agenda in his work. Agree or disagree with his feelings, he comes off as genuine each time.
If there's one thing I've learned from listening to the Bombcast and his reviews history, he's not really a guy with a vindictive or clickbait-driven agenda in his work. Agree or disagree with his feelings, he comes off as genuine each time.
PedroPanache
Member
I've come to realise that gamers treat their favourite games the same way sports fans treat their teams. It's tribal. The arguments have a similar irrational and emotional bent to them. To elaborate further just look how insane that comment by Meg Turney looks, "Ok, so I have a bone to pick. And it's people who review shit low. Because I feel like people do that to be 'eh we're different'. Everybody gave Fallout 4 90s and up. 70. You're not different or special because you review a game low!"
She's essentially saying that you cannot have an opinion that goes against the populist view, and if you do, it's because you have some kind of agenda or want to make a superficial statement. You're a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. It's all about invalidation. It's tribal, it's not just an insult about a game, it's about "her" game. The one she's supported since that very first announcement. That's the perception, that Jeff's review is some kind of "insult", without any critical thought behind it. These people should take a step back and realise how fucking ridiculous they sound. The more I read that quote, the more it just blows my mind how monumentality stupid it is.
the mixlr dig makes it pretty clear that it was about jeff but o k
Funhaus is the place for you then. They're still a part of RoosterTeeth but they do have their own YT channel dedicated to gameplay videos and podcasts. Plus they still do record a couple of The Know episodes per week.
Regardless of the direct digs at Jeff: A group of peole that did promotional videos for Falout 4, sitting around decked in Fallout fan gear, critising "bad" reviews. Is not a good look.
Marketers do their damnedest to blurr the lines between fan videos and advertisements on Youtube, and considering the following these youtubers have, this sort of stuff needs to be called out.
That the target of the critisism was Jeff just made the whole thing all the more hilarious.
Triscuitable
Member
Yup, philosophical.
So much philosophy, they even used his name and outlet. Philosophy, thy name is Jeff Gerstmann.
Even if there wasn't a direct reference towards Jeff (which there clearly was) it was still an incredibly idiotic conversation.
Kralamoonard
Member
If you hate hip hop it'd be pretty easy to hate on it.
SuicidalSteve
Member
I don't think she understands why people give a low scores in reviews? How about mentioning that a game could have issues perhaps? Ever thought about that?
Such an ignorant comment to make!
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Umbasa.
PedroPanache
Member
Generic Philosophical Talk brought to you by Bethesda. Don't review shit low to be different, like, be like everybody else and give it the score marketing feels it deserves.
GERTSMANN. YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL. YOU'RE NOT DIFFERENT. YOUR MOTHER NEVER REALLY LOVED YOU. YOUR FATHER THINKS YOU'RE A DISAPPOINTMENT. YOUR COLLEAGUES SECRETLY THINK YOU GIVE OFF THE DISTINCT AROMA OF A SALTED PEANUT. BRUCE LEE ON THE C64 IS SHIT. FIX YOUR FALLOUT 4 REVIEW. YOU ROTTEN BASTARD.
Messofanego
Banned
That usenet thread was brilliant, thanks to EmCeeGramr.We had GAF thread like a year ago where we just dug up tons of newsgroup gaming conversations about console wars back then. It was incredible. Nothing ever changes man.
The one where this fanboy called Nintendo "NoFundo" just destroyed me
The more things change: Usenet posts from rec.games.video and more
Jeff being called cynical back in the 90s lol
Here's a copy of the email I sent to him:
Obviously you're either mad or on crack; possibly both. You'd have to
be an extremely green player to
think that becoming good doesn't reap rewards of any magnitude. I'm by
no means one of the best, and
yet button mashers such as yourself couldn't touch me. You see, it's a
thinking man's game, and there's
no place for your type. Why'd they pick you to do the review anyway?
You don't like Virtua. I'm no
Sega-suck-up, but I'd say you have to be some sort of
Nintendo-geek(since your MGS review was
almost as screwed up). I've played the arcade version of VF3(not TB)
extensively, and am currently
playing VF3TBDC, learning the differences. The graphics get an 8? How?
These are obviously the
highest quality graphics on a console by a mile. The shortcomings are
hardly noticable. The shadows are
the biggest thing, but even they don't stick out unless you happen to
have it in a 2-player match, with no
second player. Are you under the impression that being hard on the
game makes you seem better? I
suppose you're also cynical, mistaking it for intelligence, as so many
do. The music is typical AM2 style.
It is my opinion that it's actually very good(from VF1 to Daytona,
etc.). You probably don't like Army of
Darkness either, do you(the movie)? The voices are great too. Awesome
overacting. I give up. The
whole thing's an intellectual step over your head. It'd be better for
you if you just accepted your level,
and didn't swim in deep water.
Obviously you're either mad or on crack; possibly both. You'd have to
be an extremely green player to
think that becoming good doesn't reap rewards of any magnitude. I'm by
no means one of the best, and
yet button mashers such as yourself couldn't touch me. You see, it's a
thinking man's game, and there's
no place for your type. Why'd they pick you to do the review anyway?
You don't like Virtua. I'm no
Sega-suck-up, but I'd say you have to be some sort of
Nintendo-geek(since your MGS review was
almost as screwed up). I've played the arcade version of VF3(not TB)
extensively, and am currently
playing VF3TBDC, learning the differences. The graphics get an 8? How?
These are obviously the
highest quality graphics on a console by a mile. The shortcomings are
hardly noticable. The shadows are
the biggest thing, but even they don't stick out unless you happen to
have it in a 2-player match, with no
second player. Are you under the impression that being hard on the
game makes you seem better? I
suppose you're also cynical, mistaking it for intelligence, as so many
do. The music is typical AM2 style.
It is my opinion that it's actually very good(from VF1 to Daytona,
etc.). You probably don't like Army of
Darkness either, do you(the movie)? The voices are great too. Awesome
overacting. I give up. The
whole thing's an intellectual step over your head. It'd be better for
you if you just accepted your level,
and didn't swim in deep water.
Perfect!
This is absolutely incredible.
In the good old days, there was sex talk radio.
This is a pretty stupid situation they've got themselves into. I have been watching RT content for over ten years, so I am a fan. However I only watch select things because they are so big now:
1) They make too much content you can't physically watch it all
2) Some of it is pretty crappy.
I personally listen to the patch on and off because some of the discussions get frustrating and some of the hosts personalities annoy me.
I don't know what to say really, I know Gus is a huge fallout fan regardless of getting paid via sponsors. However I feel like it was Meg (who I don't like really anyway) that kicked this off with her "trying to be edgy" and calling out why do reviews have to rate a game so "low" to be different. Then Gus and Ryan kinda jumped on it too.
I have put maybe 20 hours into the PS4 version, and yeah its got bugs. I'm getting frame rate drops pretty often and had to restart the game / reload older saves because of stupid bugs. More so they any other PS4 game i've played in a while. But because Bethesda games have their quirky janks people are over looking this. While the game isn't broken, it can be very frustrating.
The worse thing is how they bash Jeff and reviewers while wearing their Pip boys, and on top of that its worth mentioning on the RT podcast a few weeks ago Burnie said that those Fallout 4 sponsored videos earned them enough money to finish an entire series of Immersion, which otherwise probably wouldn't have been made.
1) They make too much content you can't physically watch it all
2) Some of it is pretty crappy.
I personally listen to the patch on and off because some of the discussions get frustrating and some of the hosts personalities annoy me.
I don't know what to say really, I know Gus is a huge fallout fan regardless of getting paid via sponsors. However I feel like it was Meg (who I don't like really anyway) that kicked this off with her "trying to be edgy" and calling out why do reviews have to rate a game so "low" to be different. Then Gus and Ryan kinda jumped on it too.
I have put maybe 20 hours into the PS4 version, and yeah its got bugs. I'm getting frame rate drops pretty often and had to restart the game / reload older saves because of stupid bugs. More so they any other PS4 game i've played in a while. But because Bethesda games have their quirky janks people are over looking this. While the game isn't broken, it can be very frustrating.
The worse thing is how they bash Jeff and reviewers while wearing their Pip boys, and on top of that its worth mentioning on the RT podcast a few weeks ago Burnie said that those Fallout 4 sponsored videos earned them enough money to finish an entire series of Immersion, which otherwise probably wouldn't have been made.
HellofaMouse
Member
i agree that scores dont mean anything on their own, but thats always what the conversation revolves around. without the review scores i dont think we would be having this drama right now, because without them a review is just another guys opinion, just another forum post. without scores, some1 would probably just make a thread saying "such and such said this games a technical mess", then someone would say its not a big deal, ppl would come up with counterarguements etc. and the thread would slowly fade away. Without scores, you cant have conversations about a review on a larger scale, and when it gets larger, all the hate speech and trolling starts the overshadow the real conversation. its a self destructing thing. thats why i keep saying reviews are pointless, you cant have a constructive dialogue in the context of a review or reviews.
and i repeat, even something like technical issues is a matter of opinion, what is a huge deal breaker to some people might not be such a big deal for others. hell, some people even like stupid bugs in bathesda games.
Man, especially that second paragraph really rubs me the wrong way. How the hell is her point "very salient"? Yeah, I'm sure journalists are really craving all the negative attention from fanboys like themselves and all the hatemail that comes with it.Probably worth mentioning the founder of RT seems to have a lot of respect for Gerstmann, and they've been on each other's panels. This looks like an uninformed cosplayer said something dumb, and the other guys went with it.
Even the RT community savaged them over it. Here's Ryan's response in their subreddit where he doubles-down (check the downvotes)
And yes, I'm pretty sure we are a better judge, when your uninformed ass has never even heard of Jeff Gerstmann. But somehow that didn't stop you from questioning his integrity.
Another website to add to my shitlist.
PedroPanache
Member
I played Fallout 3 on the PC with tons and tons of mods. I had the greatest time playing it. It was my first time in the Fallout universe and I soaked up every encounter and story thread exploring the wasteland. But, boy, oh boy! The crashes! It crashed and crashed and crashed, but you know what? I still loved every minute of that experience. It's all relative I suppose, I had installed a ton of mods, but it's something you can overlook if you're prepared for it. I certainly was. The question now is should a Fallout game in 2015 offer a similar, buggy experience. Should the developers, by now, have a better understanding of how their game engine works and how to prevent the plethora of bugs and performance issues? It's a conversation worth having and should absolutely not be hand waved away by those who feel it doesn't affect their experience of the game.
I'm probably on the side of the fence that doesn't really have an issue with the bugs, but putting aside personal bias, so in that sense I found Jeff's take to be an interesting counter to my approach to the game. Stepping back, this is absolutely a problem that should be better resolved in a 2015 Fallout 4 game. Critically, you can take it to task on not only the bugs but the poor performance on consoles and adjust the review score accordingly. There's no doubt it's a lesser experience on consoles than it is on a suitably powered PC. It's embarrassing that Rooster Teeth have taken Jeff to task on his take on Fallout 4. It's also so disappointingly predictable as they critique him behind their desk filled with PR goodies and Pipboy devices. How does one exactly have perspective on the matter when you're so deep into the other side of things that you dismiss outlier criticism as offensive and superficial.
Still, he doesn't like Resident Evil 4. ALL FUTURE OPINIONS INVALIDATED.
That's the thing, though: if this conversation had been born from ignorance it would have been much easier to excuse. Her remarks were clearly motivated by the fact that Bethesda is paying the bills.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Is that an assumption we're making based on how obvious it is or did they disclose that fact somewhere? I don't see them listing Bethesda or Zenimax as a sponsor in the description of the video(s) in the OP (or I didn't see it because their descriptions are rubbish.)
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