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[Souldriver]

the wii was not more powerful than last gen consoles and launched second

the wii 2 will be a fair bit more powerful than current gen consoles and seems to be launching well before its rivals

I dunno. If Sony/MS release their consoles 1 year later than Nintendo and theirs leapfrog the Wii2 in power, how different would that be from this gen?


I dunno, it's all conjecture at this point, but I'm just really worried that Nintendo might be stupid enough to put themselves in the same position as this gen twice. I doubt it would pay off for them as it did with the Wii's first 3 years, and it didn't pay of for Wii-gamers at all. But who knows: perhaps Nintendo will do extra effort in the horsepower department, while Sony and MS take a trick out of Nintendo's book and focus more on casual crowds and other innovations instead of raw horsepower.

 

[KAL2006]

I'm with you both. This is a fucking joke. I'm seriously almost raging right now after reading the latest updates. A 4850/R700 in 2012, which will be 4-year old GPU tech by then? Are you serious? "At least 512mb of RAM"...oh my god? Yes, I know it said at least but even 1gb is a joke for 2012.

If these specs are even close to being true, the Wii2 will be put in exactly the same situation the original is in today. PS4 and 720 will run laps around this thing. The 360 came out with a GPU that had unified shaders which was tech that wasn't in any GPU in the market at the time. Both CELL and the 360 triple core CPU were cutting edge. I can't believe this shit. I'm not fkng buying a console with a 4-year old GPU and a gig of RAM in 2012.

Worst thing is that if the next Xbox or PS4 (or both) launch in Fall of 2013 and the Wii2 sells gangbusters there's a good chance that many of the multi-platform games will be upgraded ports from Wii2's hardware instead of built for the new systems.

All fair points, it seems Nintendo whant to do a quick catchup (in tech) but are not thinking about the future enough, yes Wii 2 will be a monster and will get the best multiplatfom ports and release considerably earlier than PS4/720, it will be only high tech until PS4/720 are unleashed which would hten make Wii 2 look old like the Wii is.

Maybe Nintendo is counting on another gimmick and it seems this touchscreen thing and that unknown big secret will be their trump card.

 

[justchris]

Interestingly, 3 inches by 2 inches is 6 inches².

Xbox and Gamecube both launched in 2001, broseph.
But I agree that Nintendo will probably dedicate a good chunk of "fast RAM" no matter what other features they include. It's worked well for them since the N64.

Yeah, sorry, my memory can get fuzzy going back that many years.

 

[Bentendo]

Remember when Nintendo never had things leak? Seems like the dam exploded this time.

People have to remember that these are still rumors. We go through this kind of thing every generation and while this gen's rumors do have a bit more credibility, it still could be complete BS. We already know that some of it IS crap because the contradictions are mad.

 

[Nirolak]

Perhaps you're missing the point.

Nintendo wants PS4 and 720 to run laps around Wii2. This way, they can maintain the lower pricepoint and the others have to go the other direction to compete in a different part of the market.

They don't want to create the 'all around' best console.

Since this generation started, it's been pretty clear that to maximize the industry, consumers will be buying 2 out of the 3 systems at any given time.

Well, that strategy has been working great for them in the long term.

Here's how they're doing in Japan. Orange is this year.

 

[Mike M]

I haven't read this thread (don't have time to go through 122 pages), but anyone have any clue how the hell controllers such as the ones being described could be done without costing somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 bucks at a minimum?

Sounds awesome, but sweet merciful shit, I'd never buy a multiplayer game again...

 

[Branduil]

I think Nintendo's strategy will be to make the system look just good enough so that it's a clear upgrade over 360/PS3 and that Sony/MS can't one-up it in a really significant way without either great cost or waiting several years to release.

 

[From The Dust]

or maybe everything here is completely wrong and the Wii2 is twice as powerfull as the PS360 with a natural evolution of the Wiimote+ (and classic pro in the box)

 

[BY2K]

All fair points, it seems Nintendo whant to do a quick catchup (in tech) but are not thinking about the future enough, yes Wii 2 will be a monster and will get the best multiplatfom ports and release considerably earlier than PS4/720, it will be only high tech until PS4/720 are unleashed which would hten make Wii 2 look old like the Wii is.

Maybe Nintendo is counting on another gimmick and it seems this touchscreen thing and that unknown big secret will be their trump card.

I actually don't care much. Would Super Mario Galaxy 3 look any better on a PS4/720 level console as it would on a 360/PS3+ level console? Think about it. Nintendo doesn't always use/require high detail textures in their games.

 

[Balb]

Because the ratio of game quality gained to expense and inconvenience incurred is getting worse and worse. It makes sense to make a more moderate upgrade to the consols, as development cycles are getting so huge that bloated that AAA "8th gen" games would be astronomically expensive and difficult to produce.

Yet the third party developers will jump on the PS4/Xbox 3 bandwagon anyway.

 

[Door2Dawn]

or maybe everything here is completely wrong and the Wii2 is twice as powerfull as the PS360 with a natural evolution of the Wiimote+ (and classic pro in the box)

no

 

[Salsa]

This is going to be the best E3 ever, holy fuckin crap.

 

[Jin34]

I will bet you money that, at the very least, PS4 will be a monster. Sony is a hardware company and they've always stuck to cutting edge tech for this stuff. Look at NGP... a fkng quad core monster in a handheld when current super phones are just now getting dual cores. Also a 5" OLED screen

PSP was far more of monster than NGP, NGP actually uses off the shelf parts made for mobile devices. The PSP was Crazy Ken's finest hour of insanity getting that thing done. It's going to be dialed back some to avoid the huge power hungry, heat producing chips that cost both companies so much money. They will have considerable power but they wont be exotic and as ahead of the curve as before.

 

[antonz]

I think the safe assumption is Nintendo is going in this expecting the others to temper themselves a bit so they can get away from losing billions of dollars.

Nintendo would be more than happy to be the PS2 of the 3 if the others go Xbox and Gamecube style power differences.

This could all backfire but there is no way the gap will ever approach the Wii 360/Ps3 one. Just not possible if the Wii 2 is outputting 1080P 60 FPS

 

[apana]

I haven't read this thread (don't have time to go through 122 pages), but anyone have any clue how the hell controllers such as the ones being described could be done without costing somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 bucks at a minimum?

Sounds awesome, but sweet merciful shit, I'd never buy a multiplayer game again...

What do you think the controller being described is? At this point it seems like there are two controllers. One is the touch screen with two analog sticks. Second is the Wii Mote and Nunchuk. They either have to fuse them or put both in the box.

 

[Jonm1010]

That kind of cutting edge won't be happening next gen. It will be somewhere in the middle of Wii 2 route and 360/PS3 route.

How do you know??

If Im Microsoft or Sony and the specs are released that Nintendo is going to put out some marginally better than 360 system that has several bottlenecks(low ram and underpowered CPU possibly). I would immediately conclude that I can copy their gimmick. Release 6 to 12 months later. Drop the hell out of the price on my current systems to maintain market share, and spec the shit out of my next console.

I make the wii2 look like a generation behind, I have the same gimmick they have and more(kinect2). I come to market only a little while later. I, unlike nintendo, are willing to take an initial loss so I can nearly match the price-point.

If im a hardcore gamer, I wait. If im really hardcore I might buy Nintendo as a holdover, but jump ship quickly. If I am a casual who only bought a wii, I might not be ready to switch so soon to a new system. I might also see that this time around everyone is close to the same in controls and gimmicks, so me and my other casuals may all go separate ways to different consoles which will hurt Nintendos core market.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I thought IBM or ATI got out of the games business a while ago? Wouldn't that make that info suspect?

 

[From The Dust]

no

YOU GOTTA BELIEVE!

 

[mentalfloss]

Well, that strategy has been working great for them in the long term.

Here's how they're doing in Japan. Orange is this year.

Japan is the least important of the three territories, but that problem will be alleviated with a price drop anyway.

They're doing just fine.

 

[Orayn]

I will bet you money that, at the very least, PS4 will be a monster. Sony is a hardware company and they've always stuck to cutting edge tech for this stuff. Look at NGP... a fkng quad core monster in a handheld when current super phones are just now getting dual cores. Also a 5" OLED screen

It's not a quad core "monster," it's a quad core variant on the same chip most of the cell phones are using. You're starting to sound silly.

 

[antonz]

I thought IBM or ATI got out of the games business a while ago? Wouldn't that make that info suspect?

ATI was bought by AMD and AMD has hinted they are actively courting console makers. One source at AMD has even said flat out said they have a new CPU for a console launching in 2012.

IBM just killed the CELL. But concepts from it will live on

 

[WillyFive]

So was I. Did you forget what post you replied to, or did you just not read it? You implied the four controller issue when you responded to my post, which was in response to this:

That doesn't mean the system will come with four controllers. I don't remember systems coming with more than one controller since the N64.

Mario Kart being 4 player does not mean the system will come with 4 controllers. Most likely they will be sold separately, just like all the other consoles.

 

[M74]

"The site [from the specs post below] also concurs that the controller is a touch tablet, with moderate , sub-HD graphic output with a single-touch 6-inch screen, a front camera which acts as a Wii sensor bar, two d-pads, two bumpers, and possibly more than two triggers."

Two d-pads? Do they really mean d-pads, or do they mean sticks? More than two triggers, in addition to bumpers? A single-touch screen, which eliminates speculation of the screen replacing physical inputs in their entirety. Maintains (improves) motion controls and pointing functionality?

I'm having a really difficult time trying to imagine this thing as a gamepad.

 

[From The Dust]

ATI was bought by AMD and AMD has hinted they are actively courting console makers. One source at AMD has even said flat out said they have a new CPU for a console launching in 2012.

IBM just killed the CELL. But concepts from it will live on

since they are one the whole APU thing, they are most likely trying to push IBM out of the area. it would take a mighty hard push though

 

[KAL2006]

I actually don't care much. Would Super Mario Galaxy 3 look any better on a PS4/720 level console as it would on a 360/PS3+ level console? Think about it. Nintendo doesn't always use/require high detail textures in their games.

True but you won't know until you see it, for example when PS2 was out we didn't think games would benefit from more power, same can be said for this gen.

More power means
higher FPS
3D
higher res
advanced ai
tons of enemies on screen
more detailed open enviroments (good for open world games)
more shit going on screen at once (tons of huge monsters, physics, ai and etc all happening at once)
higher draw distance
splitscreen gaming without too much of a hit on graphics
more players on an online battle (e.g battlefield on PS3/360 cannot hadnle as many players as PC version)
the list just goes on

basically what I am saying is, because we haven't seen it, we don't know we want it

 

[neptunes]

This could all backfire but there is no way the gap will ever approach the Wii 360/Ps3 one. Just not possible if the Wii 2 is outputting 1080P 60 FPS

1080 60 FPS is so ambiguous

the 360 and PS3 can technically achieve 1080p @ 60 FPS this generation, but developers will always sacrifice resolution and frame rate for higher polycount.

 

[scorcho]

more powerful, but with 'at least' 512MB of RAM? Really?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

ATI was bought by AMD and AMD has hinted they are actively courting console makers. One source at AMD has even said flat out said they have a new CPU for a console launching in 2012.

IBM just killed the CELL. But concepts from it will live on

Oh OK. Still, I'm a little suspicious on all these rumors, especially the specs, which Nintendo managed to (mostly) keep secret about the Wii until after it launched.

 

[Souldriver]

Japan is the least important of the three territories, but that problem will be alleviated with a price drop anyway.

They're doing just fine.

The Wii is dead in Japan and about to die in the west. A pricedrop will do very little. It's the lack of compelling software that's important. Third parties have abandoned the system, so unless Nintendo pushes out a bunch of very popular software, the Wii situation won't get better. And considering Nintendo having its hands full with the 3DS and evidently also the Wii2, I doubt they'll release many games on the Wii.

 

[Jin34]

How do you know??

If Im Microsoft or Sony and the specs are released that Nintendo is going to put out some marginally better than 360 system that has several bottlenecks(low ram and underpowered CPU possibly). I would immediately conclude that I can copy their gimmick. Release 6 to 12 months later. Drop the hell out of the price on my current systems to maintain market share, and spec the shit out of my next console.

I make the wii2 look like a generation behind, I have the same gimmick they have and more(kinect2). I come to market only a little while later. I, unlike nintendo, are willing to take an initial loss so I can nearly match the price-point.

If im a hardcore gamer, I wait. If im really hardcore I might buy Nintendo as a holdover, but jump ship quickly. If I am a casual who only bought a wii, I might not be ready to switch so soon. I might also see that this time around everyone is close to the same so me and my other casuals may all go separate ways to different consoles.

I know because of all the money RROD cost MS. The bleeding edge means huge power draw and heat which does not go well with closed boxes of electronic equipment. The 360 gpu was based on (at the time) the next gen Radeon card, something that wasn't even available on the pc side if I remember correctly. Next time you won't get that, but something more akin to taking one of the performance "sweet spot" cards from the past year so they can get a better handle on the thermals.

 

[antonz]

Oh OK. Still, I'm a little suspicious on all these rumors, especially the specs, which Nintendo managed to (mostly) keep secret about the Wii until after it launched.

I agree. I mean lets say the AMD chip is for Nintendo. Its not gonna be even out til next year chipwise. Devkits now would not even have the final hardware so anything in them would be temporary stuff so even if we got an 100% accurate devkit account it wouldnt be the final specs

 

[The Technomancer]

If none of this info ends up being right, it'll be the widest, deepest misfire in gaming journalism ever.

I find the simultaneity of the various sources suspicious. If this wasn't a Nintendo sanctioned leak then either a.)every games site on the internet has the same "insider" sources, or b.)they're all just ripping off each other.

 

[Orayn]

I know because of all the money RROD cost MS. The bleeding edge means huge power draw and heat which does not go well with closed boxes of electronic equipment. The 360 gpu was based on (at the time) the next gen Radeon card, something that wasn't even available on the pc side if I remember correctly. Next time you won't get that, but something more akin to taking one of the performance "sweet spot" cards from the past year so they can get a better handle on the thermals.

Eh, Xenos was roughly comparable to some of the higher end X1900 cards with a few bells and whistles from the ill-fated 2000-series thrown in.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

It's not a quad core "monster," it's a quad core variant on the same chip most of the cell phones are using. You're starting to sound silly.

Well whatever, I didn't know that about NGP, sorry. I still think PS4 is going to be bleeding edge tech. At least ONE of the three console makers will have a monster of a box because there's a huge market for that demo.

 

[blizzardjesus]

I actually don't care much. Would Super Mario Galaxy 3 look any better on a PS4/720 level console as it would on a 360/PS3+ level console? Think about it. Nintendo doesn't always use/require high detail textures in their games.

Indeed, I like their textures where they are, would be happy with 720p. Galaxy looks amazing on dolphin without a texture upgrade

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I wonder if this thing is packing a hard drive and Blu-ray, I think we can all agree those are definitely two things that are practically required in this next console.

I agree. I mean lets say the AMD chip is for Nintendo. Its not gonna be even out til next year chipwise. Devkits now would not even have the final hardware so anything in them would be temporary stuff so even if we got an 100% accurate devkit account it wouldnt be the final specs

That's true.

 

[WillyFive]

b.)they're all just ripping off each other.

I'd believe that.

The flow of information is sometimes too noticeable (GAF -> Internet -> GAF).

 

[SovanJedi]

I can't wait for E3. I also can't wait for the idea of remote playing Smash Bros. on this Frankontrollerstein while sat on the loo.

Shit is going to be great. Hype train, woo woo!

 

[abstract alien]

The thread is finally slowing down. Thanks goodness lol

 

[speedpop]

I'm having a really difficult time trying to imagine this thing as a gamepad.

So did the majority of GAF when the Wii remote was unveiled.

 

[Orayn]

I find the simultaneity of the various sources suspicious. If this wasn't a Nintendo sanctioned leak then either a.)every games site on the internet has the same "insider" sources, or b.)they're all just ripping off each other.

Both legitimate possibilities, though there's enough noise in the data to suggest that we're dealing with something that's at least partially accurate.

Also, MIGUEL AND TULIO! TULIO AND MIGUEL!

Well whatever, I didn't know that. I still think PS4 is going to be bleeding edge tech. At least ONE of the three console makers will have a monster of a box because there's a huge market for that demo.

But the question remains, will the hardware launch at an even higher price than the PS3, and will ever-growing game budgets continue that trend? I know it's a fairly large market, but there are some non-trivial technical hurdles that have to be dealt with.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'd believe that.

The flow of information is sometimes too noticeable (GAF -> Internet -> GAF).

Yeah, I'm very skeptical of most of this. I'm willing to buy that Nintendo has a new console, and that it will be better then the PS360, and I'll tentatively swallow that it has a screen on the controller, but this is getting too big to fast to sit right with me.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I know because of all the money RROD cost MS. The bleeding edge means huge power draw and heat which does not go well with closed boxes of electronic equipment. The 360 gpu was based on (at the time) the next gen Radeon card, something that wasn't even available on the pc side if I remember correctly. Next time you won't get that, but something more akin to taking one of the performance "sweet spot" cards from the past year so they can get a better handle on the thermals.

Wasn't the RROD fiasco more about certain design issues with cooling system rather than the GPU drawing too much power? I remember stuff about the black thermal glue and that type of thing.

 

[Cipherr]

I dunno, it's all conjecture at this point, but I'm just really worried that Nintendo might be stupid enough to put themselves in the same position as this gen twice.

1st place?



I mean, I dont mean to be a downer, but maybe what some people think they should be stupid enough to avoid is exactly what the hell they want.

 

[MechaGodzilla]

Just had a ridiculous idea but what if the camera is on the back of the controller and you have to go around the house via Augmented Reality and trap ghost ala luigi's mansion, or even a scavenger hunt type deal? Clearly it would be whatever the game you were playing called for but I think that could be fun and scary at the same time especially ghostbusting. I would never sleep again.

 

[Agent X]

There are some really tantalizing rumors swirling around here. I don't really have time to sift through 122 pages right now, so I'm sure these points have been debated, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents on the controller rumors.

So, the controller is rumored to be a "tablet" device with a 6" HD-quality touch screen and two analog thumbsticks? That sounds a lot like a slightly larger version of the NGP. Which leads me to wonder:

1. Why didn't they just make this device their new handheld system, instead of the 3DS which they just released? Or maybe I should flip this around: Couldn't they repurpose the 3DS (or one of Nintendo's older DS models) as the "controller"?

2. Isn't this going to be really expensive by "controller" standards? People are still speculating on the NGP price, which is still unknown, but almost everyone agrees it'll cost more than the 3DS. Something with a 6" HD-quality touch screen is probably going to be in the same ballpark.

3. Maybe some of these rumors are wrong, and it's not a traditional screen as we know it. Maybe it's not HD. Maybe it doesn't have analog sticks on it. Maybe the controller is a similar size and shape to the current Wii Remote, but with an elongated touch screen in the middle. Maybe the touch screen covers the entire upper surface...that's about 6" diagonal.

While most of the rumors are exciting to follow and speculate about, I haven't heard a peep about the new system's online network capabilities. They are very far behind in this regard.

 

[delirium]

I really feel the best chance Nintendo has with its next gen console is have a console that is relatively cheap but the power different between the Xbox3/PS4 won't be so great that ports can't be made for it. It will still require something to differentiate from Sony and Microsoft's next offering so that people won't just wait for that and become the next Dreamcast.

 

[devildog820]

Wasn't the RROD fiasco more about certain design issues with cooling system rather than the GPU drawing too much power? I remember stuff about the black thermal glue and that type of thing.

Yes. Microsoft rushed the design and ignored warning from the engineering team in order to get it out in 2005. Of course, having the GPU work less would've helped, but the real problem was cutting certain corners.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

But the question remains, will the hardware launch at an even higher price than the PS3, and will ever-growing game budgets continue that trend? I know it's a fairly large market, but there are some non-trivial technical hurdles that have to be dealt with.

Remember Blu-ray was one of the major reasons PS3 cost Sony like $800 to manufacture when it launched. A Blu-ray drive in 2012 sold in mass bulk to Sony and MS will be a fraction of the cost.

 

[Orayn]

Wasn't the RROD fiasco more about certain design issues with cooling system rather than the GPU drawing too much power? I remember stuff about the black thermal glue and that type of thing.

Kind of. Heat and power consumption became much greater in the 7th gen, and the 360's flawed heatsink design happened to push it over the edge. Bear in mind that "next gen" hardware is going to have to deal with even bigger thermal dissipation loads.