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[Branduil]

If none of this info ends up being right, it'll be the widest, deepest misfire in gaming journalism ever.

All of it being wrong would be strange.

Some of it being wrong is basically guaranteed, because there's contradictory information.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Am I the only person that thinks the Wii still has plenty of selling power left? They can drop the price early next year to $129 to pick up sales along with some agressive software releases and some added features with a firmware update. They can announce the console at E3 2012 and release it late 2013 on 22nm architecture and lower RAM/FLASH prices.

I also think it would be risky to announce a new console only a few months after releasing one. From now until E3 2012 should be used to push the 3DS.

 

[xandaca]

the 3DS isn't underpowered.

I suppose the thinking is that relative to the NGP packing a PS3 into a handheld size, the 3DS is relatively underpowered by merit of Nintendo not going for the absolute top of the line power available to them.

 

[Sipowicz]

I don't understand you. Nothing you listed as being innovative actually is (though I would agree shoulder buttons are, but only because of their location). Having a strong launch line-up is not innovative; that's good business sense. Adding more buttons also isn't any great innovation, unless you consider the Jaguar to be the greatest controller ever made.

What you're really arguing the SNES at the time of release, which is a much more sensible than saying it was more innovative when it really was anything but. The SNES innovated in games, not hardware.

i guess innovative isn't the right word to use. but it was progressive. it was cutting edge. the 3ds isn't innovative either. but it's regressive. it's not cutting edge. and in terms of controls it isn't perfecting existing controls, more copying the old designs of old rivals

 

[AceBandage]

If none of this info ends up being right, it'll be the widest, deepest misfire in gaming journalism ever.

And the most hilarious.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

That's the catch. Given how things have been described in the pass, a notch above the 360 can mean up to "not quite current high end". Add minimal RAM and CPU differences, and you got your "a notch above 360".

Tu put things into perspective:

Xenos: 48 shaders, 16 TFU, 8 ROPs

HD 4350 (Super low-end R7xx GPU): 80 shaders, 16 TFU, 4 ROPs.
HD 4650 (Low end, gaming grade GPU): 320 shaders, 32 TFU, 8 ROPs.
HD 4870x2 ("family" highest end GPU): 1600 shaders, 80 TFU, 32 ROPS.

Keeping that in mind, I don't see an scenario where the GPU is not considerably more powerful than the 360's.

Ok, but what you've missed/forgot to add as a disclaimer is the the shaders in Xenos are not comparable to the R700 shaders. R700 shaders are about a 5:1 ratio to the way Nvidia does shaders.

Divide 1600/5 = 320 shaders.

Also, remember that R700 pushes more information clock for clock than Xenos does.

So while the difference isn't as vast as "1600 vs 48 shaders" initially looks like, it is still big. I expect the GPU in the Wii 2 to be about 2-3x more powerful than the 360/PS3 GPU's.

 

[redbarchetta]

Interesting ideas, particularly the bolded. Nintendo's been talking a lot about their concerns regarding cheap app games taking over. Allowing the console to beam bite-sized app games off an app store to a tablet controller that you can then take with you on the go could be a way to try and grab a part of this market..

I really doubt Nintendo would go this route. This would, in essence, be competing with themselves. I can see parents now thinking why bother getting their kid the 3DS when they already have one built into the system. It simply doesn't make sense, and would be yet another device people would have to carry around with them. One dedicated gaming device is already pushing it, two would be excessive.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I hope this all turns out to be true. This is the first time I have been this excited for a Nintendo unveiling in years.

 

[Jin34]

what seems likely right now is the CPU powering the Unit will be a slight upgrade over the older ones but the GPU will be a pretty big leap though obviously not the maximum nintendo could do

That would reconcile the conflicting power reports. The sources saying around 360 level could be talking about the cpu side of things, while the ones saying significantly more powerful would be talking about the gpu side.

 

[Souldriver]

the 3DS isn't underpowered.

Next to the NGP it seems to be.


Mind you, I'm not complaining about the graphics on any console. But I think Nintendo will try to keep a profit margin on the thing while also keeping the price low enough (not in PS3 launch price territory), so there will be graphical sacrifices (especially if they tack on other innovations), and underwhelm in the minds of the never satisfied gamers/neogaf.

 

[AIRic]

Nintendo is always taking risk "concept-wise", but will they take a risk "power-wise"? I want the Wii2 to be competitive in pure power and technology, so they can put all their crazy gaming ideas with crazy graphics to match.

 

[justchris]

Consoles always use the best ram on the market at the current time.
Nintendo is not going to have better ram than Sony or MS next gen systems.

...take a look at the specs of the RAM in the Gamecube vs. the RAM in the Xbox that came out later. Even the Wii has two types of RAM in it, a higher class of dedicated Video RAM and then the slower GDDR3 RAM similar to what the 360 has in it.

 

[Jin34]

Ok, but what you've missed is the the shaders in Xenos are not comparable to the R700 shaders. R700 shaders are about a 5:1 ratio to the way Nvidia does shaders.

Divide 1600/5 = 320 shaders.

Also, remember that R700 pushes more information clock for clock than Xenos does.

So while the difference isn't as vast as "1600 vs 48 shaders" initially looks like, it is still big. I expect the GPU in the Wii 2 to be about 2-3x more powerful than the 360/PS3 GPU's.

The 360 has a Radeon derivative, thats why he's comparing the shader numbers of the gpu the 360 is based on to the 4000 series. The PS3 is the one with an Nvidia gpu.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I haven't been following this thread too much, but the new details sound insane. Can the controller launch missiles or grant wishes at this point? Is it actually Kingdom Hearts?

 

[M74]

If all this crazy stuff is actually in the controller, with a large touch screen, advanced haptics, precise motion controls, cameras, whatever else (what happened to all the sensory/vitality stuff we expected?), then the console itself will have to consist of moderately powered tech to balance out the price of the overall package. Question is, will it still have enough juice to allow for reasonable multi-platform ports?

 

[Tempy]

I'm kind of intrigued by a touchscreen controller. With normal gamepad controllers, game designers are still stuck with a static control layout. However, a touchscreen controller allows controller configurations to be much more flexible and polymorphic. The number of commands are also no longer limited by the number of physical buttons and switches.

There's also an added benefit of artistic license when designing a touch screen control interfaces. Imagine playing a something like Microsoft Flight Simulator and having all your avionics and instruments on the touchscreen drawn exactly like it would on a Cessna.

The problems I see stemming from this would be with usability. Having a certain control elements with no physical features would make it difficult for players to naturally adapt to control schemes without tactile feedback. Muscle memory is a key component of player control and removing an important feedback cue would be very problematic.

I foresee most games that rely on high reflexes to stick with the physical portions for physical actions (combat/movement) while relegating the touchscreen for in-game state management (inventory, stats screen, landing gear, flaps, transfer laser energy to shields, etc).

...Haptic Touchscreen maybe?

 

[Rich!]

I haven't been following this thread too much, but the new details sound insane. Can the controller launch missiles or grant wishes at this point? Is it actually Kingdom Hearts?

It's the trapper keeper.

 

[redbarchetta]

i guess innovative isn't the right word to use. but it was progressive. it was cutting edge. the 3ds isn't innovative either. but it's regressive. it's not cutting edge. and in terms of controls it isn't perfecting existing controls, more copying the old designs of old rivals

Yeah, progressive I can see (and is basically what I meant to write--looks like I forgot to include a few words in my quoted portion =P.

 

[Branduil]

The more I think about the more ridiculous the idea of a six-inch screen in the controller is. I can definitely see a small screen in the controller, but a giant six-inch screen that makes the controller more unweildy than the 3DS? How can this be reconciled with the idea of a traditional controller?

 

[Drkirby]

Hope the thing has at least 2GB of Ram, but so far my CPU prediction isn't too off (I thought they would off gone the Duel core, most likely doing the "Make a quad core, disable core for higher yields" strategy)

 

[Orayn]

...take a look at the specs of the RAM in the Gamecube vs. the RAM in the Xbox that came out later. Even the Wii has two types of RAM in it, a higher class of dedicated Video RAM and then the slower GDDR3 RAM similar to what the 360 has in it.

Xbox and Gamecube both launched in 2001, broseph.
But I agree that Nintendo will probably dedicate a good chunk of "fast RAM" no matter what other features they include. It's worked well for them since the N64.

 

[Lonely1]

Ok, but what you've missed/forgot to add as a disclaimer is the the shaders in Xenos are not comparable to the R700 shaders. R700 shaders are about a 5:1 ratio to the way Nvidia does shaders.

Divide 1600/5 = 320 shaders.

Also, remember that R700 pushes more information clock for clock than Xenos does.

So while the difference isn't as vast as "1600 vs 48 shaders" initially looks like, it is still big. I expect the GPU in the Wii 2 to be about 2-3x more powerful than the 360/PS3 GPU's.

Xenos in an ATI GPU. And the 4870x2 is easily over 10 times as powerful as the 360/Ps3 GPUs.

 

[rpmurphy]

If none of this info ends up being right, it'll be the widest, deepest misfire in gaming journalism ever.

Today's gaming journalists are secret Nintendo freaks from the Revolution hype era confirmed.

 

[apana]

I haven't been following this thread too much, but the new details sound insane. Can the controller launch missiles or grant wishes at this point? Is it actually Kingdom Hearts?

At this point it seems like there will be multiple controllers in the box.

 

[Rich!]

The more I think about the more ridiculous the idea of a six-inch screen in the controller is. I can definitely see a small screen in the controller, but a giant six-inch screen that makes the controller more unweildy than the 3DS? How can this be reconciled with the idea of a traditional controller?

Maybe the entire controller surface is the screen. Imagine a 360 controller with buttons and shit, but the entire surface around them is a touch screen. haha.

 

[Jonm1010]

I think its safe to say the Wii2 will indeed be underpowered. Compared to the nextbox and PS4 that is.

I think that is going to be key.

However I disagree on your other point, If Nintendo cant maintain 3rd party support for a console life cycle I think they will really end up suffering long term. Both sales wise and with how much software they can sell on the system.

3rd party developers have complained about how little of the software they can sell on wii(I know, a lot is shovelware) but its still true that casuals dont buy like hardcore gamers. And if Nintendo cant pry hardcores and keep them, I think they will have problems long term - or at best be relegated to a niche system, which maybe they are cool with.

If 720 and ps4 come out with double the ram, top of the line graphics chips and a much improved CPU - all which is pretty likely. The Wii might be stuck at the same spot they are now - with 3rd party developers sticking with the powerhouse systems and throwing the Wii2 table scraps.

Except now Wii is coming out first, so they will have blown their load first and will allow Microsoft and Sony to match whatever gimmick they put out and they could also potentially surprise Nintendo and release faster than Nintendo thinks. Meaning people might just wait.

I think this is a bigger gamble for Nintendo then people think. At least in the long term.

 

[apana]

Maybe the entire controller surface is the screen. Imagine a 360 controller with buttons and shit, but the entire surface around them is a touch screen. haha.

Yeah I speculated about this earlier:

edit: Instead of visit unicef, add "Play Mario Kart".

 

[Barack Lesnar]

The specs already seem underwhelming. I know it's Nintendo and they like to cheap out with the guts of their systems, but an R700 gpu and 512mb ram doesn't cut it for next gen.

Don't get me wrong. For a Nintendo system it seems adequate. It's been said before many times but I'm just worried that in a year or so after the thing releases, Sony and Microsoft's new offerings will flat out embarass Wii2 or whatever it'll be called.

I honestly don't get why Nintendo would release a new console only a "bit more powerful" than the 360. What's the point? Sure, Nintendo will have a nice head start with a more powerful console; however, once the next Microsoft and Sony consoles release, they'll be (presumably) considerably more powerful than Wii2, leaving Nintendo in the same exact position it's in with the Wii.

Am I looking at this too simplistically or is this a fair judgment?

I'm with you both. This is a fucking joke. I'm seriously almost raging right now after reading the latest updates. A 4850/R700 in 2012, which will be 4-year old GPU tech by then? Are you serious? "At least 512mb of RAM"...oh my god? Yes, I know it said at least but even 1gb is a joke for 2012.

If these specs are even close to being true, the Wii2 will be put in exactly the same situation the original is in today. PS4 and 720 will run laps around this thing. The 360 came out with a GPU that had unified shaders which was tech that wasn't in any GPU in the market at the time. Both CELL and the 360 triple core CPU were cutting edge. I can't believe this shit. I'm not fkng buying a console with a 4-year old GPU and a gig of RAM in 2012.

Worst thing is that if the next Xbox or PS4 (or both) launch in Fall of 2013 and the Wii2 sells gangbusters there's a good chance that many of the multi-platform games will be upgraded ports from Wii2's hardware instead of built for the new systems.

 

[Rich!]

Yeah I speculated about this earlier.

It really could work. It'd be fuck-difficult to manufacture, but hm.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

I think it'd be excellent if Nintendo launched the Wii 2 at $250-300, near current PS3 and 360 pricing.

I think if they market the graphics capability ("look! More powerful than 360/PS3! HD!") and champion the fact that they have THE best version of multiplatform games, they could really recapture the hardcore market. Well, if Xbox 3 and PS4 don't come out shortly after and rape the hell out of the Wii 2.

Well, if they can revamp the online to compete with PSN/XBL. It needs to be appealing and easy to use, with a big focus on multiplayer gaming.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yeah the spec update is ultimately underwhelming. I'm still excited to see this Frankenstein but now it's purely scientific curiosity.

 

[Clott]

I hope it's "underpowered" just to see everyone shit in their diapers. And I hope Sony and Microsoft follow suit with that ideaology as well.

Why would you want technology to stagnate? We might as well just stick with the consoles we have now if you want the next generation to be a notch better than what we have today.

 

[Sipowicz]

the wii was not more powerful than last gen consoles and launched second

the wii 2 will be a fair bit more powerful than current gen consoles and seems to be launching well before its rivals

 

[Grakl]

Calling it. $400.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I suppose the thinking is that relative to the NGP packing a PS3 into a handheld size, the 3DS is relatively underpowered by merit of Nintendo not going for the absolute top of the line power available to them.

I understand but not high-end =/ underpowered.

 

[justchris]

Am I the only person that thinks the Wii still has plenty of selling power left?

Yes. No one is making games for it. No new games means no incentive to buy. Oh, they'll probably sell through another 15-20 million units worldwide before the thing is scrapped, but it's clearly hit it's tailing off period.

 

[Jin34]

I'm with you both. This is a fucking joke. I'm seriously almost raging right now after reading the latest updates. A 4850/R700 in 2012, which will be 4-year old GPU tech by then? Are you serious? "At least 512mb of RAM"...oh my god? Yes, I know it said at least but even 1gb is a joke for 2012.

If these specs are even close to being true, the Wii2 will be put in exactly the same situation the original is in today. PS4 and 720 will run laps around this thing. The 360 came out with a GPU that had unified shaders which was tech that wasn't in any GPU in the market at the time. Both CELL and the 360 triple core CPU were cutting edge. I can't believe this shit. I'm not fkng buying a console with a 4-year old GPU and a gig of RAM in 2012.

Worst thing is that if the next Xbox or PS4 (or both) launch in Fall of 2013 and sells gangbusters there's a good chance that many of the multi-platform games will be upgraded ports from Wii2's hardware instead of built for the new systems.

That kind of cutting edge won't be happening next gen. It will be somewhere in the middle of Wii 2 route and 360/PS3 route.

 

[From The Dust]

I think if they market the graphics capability ("look! More powerful than 360/PS3! HD!") and champion the fact that they have THE best version of multiplatform games, they could really recapture the hardcore market.

the problem is if the PS4/720 is more powerful than the Wii2. depending on the gap however, that may not be a bad thing

 

[Boney]

Why would you want technology to stagnate? We might as well just stick with the consoles we have now if you want the next generation to be a notch better than what we have today.

faster developments cycle! more games!!

disclaimer: not necesarily true

 

[antispin]

This could be how Nintendo addresses the incoming tablet assault: A controller that doubles duty as a stand alone tablet, streaming content; along with a small amount of flash storage for VC and eStore games. It also offers some complimentary functions to the main console, like offloading UI elements and generally acting as a second screen (browser access, notes, ARG interface, friends list, settings, etc.).

Interesting to see the difference in approach that sony and Nintendo have taken to the same problem (Apple). The NGP is home-console capable & PS Suite aims to graft the playstation dna into cellphone OSes. While this new nintendo console seems to break out a portable computer.

Both approaches seem like the first tentative steps into the iOS garden. Nintendo's approach being more conservative of the two.

 

[xandaca]

Can I also just throw out that I'm sure Nintendo have previously said that their next console, whenever it happens, will build on the motion control they offered with Wii. (Personally, I really hope they keep the two-part approach to the controller). I'd say this makes a six-inch screen on the controller pretty unlikely for practicality and fragility reasons. It wouldn't even surprise me if the new console's controller was the Wiimote Plus (or a standard Wii remote with a Motion Plus attached) because it's familiar to people, and would make it more appealing for non-traditional gamers to buy the console without having to worry about buying a whole new set of controllers.

 

[mj1108]

This thread is just.... Damn, I don't know. Everytime I look at it there's something new piled onto it, making me wonder how much of this is truth and how much of it is people's wishlists being misconstrued for actual rumors.

That said...if this does have a 6" screen and can stream games to it...I wonder if you could "download" a game to the controller and take it with you?? Although that idea would end up competing with the DS/3DS (kinda).....

Also, best thing to do...wait for Nintendo to say something.

 

[Orayn]

'm with you both. This is a fucking joke. I'm seriously almost raging right now after reading the latest updates. A 4850/R700 in 2012, which will be 4-year old GPU tech by then? Are you serious? "At least 512mb of RAM"...oh my god? Yes, I know it said at least but even 1gb is a joke for 2012.

If these specs are even close to being true, the Wii2 will be put in exactly the same situation the original is in today. PS4 and 720 will run laps around this thing. The 360 came out with a GPU that had unified shaders which was tech that wasn't in any GPU in the market at the time. Both CELL and the 360 triple core CPU were cutting edge. I can't believe this shit. I'm not fkng buying a console with a 4-year old GPU and a gig of RAM in 2012.

Just because Microsoft and Sony will have access to faster tech doesn't mean they'll be able to implement it without the system costing $600 or cooking itself.

Worst thing is that if the next Xbox or PS4 (or both) launch in Fall of 2013 and sells gangbusters there's a good chance that many of the multi-platform games will be upgraded ports from Wii2's hardware instead of built for the new systems.

This happened to the entire sixth generation because of the PS2.

Spoiler

You embittered?

 

[Bentendo]

Yeah I speculated about this earlier:

edit: Instead of visit unicef, add "Play Mario Kart".

That would be a bitch to lose.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

the problem is if the PS4/720 is more powerful than the Wii2. depending on the gap however, that may not be a bad thing

Yep, it all depends on timing. If Sony and Microsoft are later than 2013 to release the Xbox 3 and PS4, Nintendo might have a chance.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

That kind of cutting edge won't be happening next gen. It will be somewhere in the middle of Wii 2 route and 360/PS3 route.

I will bet you money that, at the very least, PS4 will be a monster. Sony is a hardware company and they've always stuck to cutting edge tech for this stuff. Look at NGP... a fkng quad core monster in a handheld when current super phones are just now getting dual cores. Also a 5" OLED screen

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Remember when Nintendo never had things leak? Seems like the dam exploded this time.

 

[Orayn]

Why would you want technology to stagnate? We might as well just stick with the consoles we have now if you want the next generation to be a notch better than what we have today.

Because the ratio of game quality gained to expense and inconvenience incurred is getting worse and worse. It makes sense to make a more moderate upgrade to the consols, as development cycles are getting so huge that bloated that AAA "8th gen" games would be astronomically expensive and difficult to produce.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 512mb number is exclusively reserved for games.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'm with you both. This is a fucking joke. I'm seriously almost raging right now after reading the latest updates. A 4850/R700 in 2012, which will be 4-year old GPU tech by then? Are you serious? "At least 512mb of RAM"...oh my god? Yes, I know it said at least but even 1gb is a joke for 2012.

Perhaps you're missing the point.

Nintendo wants PS4 and 720 to run laps around Wii2. This way, they can maintain the lower pricepoint and the others have to go the other direction to compete in a different part of the market.

They don't want to create the 'all around' best console.

Since this generation started, it's been pretty clear that to maximize the industry, consumers will be buying 2 out of the 3 systems at any given time. That's how all three companies can continue to co-exist in a profitable market.