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[Eversynth]

Please remember that:

Nintendo doesn't sell the hardware at a loss.

The price of the console doesn't cover just the components used, but also manufacturing costs (people), shipment, r&d, marketing, support staff, etc...

Remember also that they make hardware sturdy enough to be used by children (at least, they have done so up until now), so the controller can't be some kind of hyper-tech gadget that could easily break if mishandled.

Also, they can't release at a price too high...

 

[AceBandage]

If this thing is really just about equal to the 360, Nintendo can eat one. That's right, eat a dick, Nintendo... until a new 3d Zelda or Mario comes out on it. Then; hi, here's my money.

 

[gofreak]

If they have a DX11 GPU and CPU tightly integrated on a single die then a lot of those traditional CPU tasks can simply be off loaded to the GPU's stream processors. Sure, by doing this the gap in graphics is going to get ever larger but at least this stuff will actually run on the system, which can't be said of many of this generation's games and Wii.

Presumably one of the key "gameplay dependendent" areas that may be pushed is physics and thankfully modern GPUs have already shown thats an ideal candidate to be offloaded from the CPU to the GPU. It won't work for everything but its probably going to end up being a niche enough problem for it not to matter until several years into the generation, at which point Nintendo may be preparing a refresh anyway.

For some gamespace workloads, the total processing capability of the system may be at their disposal, but I think the overarching questions remain. I don't know enough either about Nintendo's spec or developer's 'wants'/ambitions to make a prediction.

For one, i don't believe that the Wii 2 is going to have just have 512MB of RAM.

I'd like to not believe that too, and I think that's probably right. Although the questions I mentioned remain. The only way they wouldn't is if Nintendo came out with something really, obviously of very 'next-generation' calibre, that gave total confidence in its technical longevity. If its specs were a safe bet. If they sort of umm-and-awe it, or do so in some respects, then there's scope for uncertainty.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

Hopefully we'll see that come with some significant improvement in online infrastructure.

For one, i don't believe that the Wii 2 is going to have just have 512MB of RAM.

No reason at all it shouldn't have at least a gig.

 

[dwu8991]

Maybe the screen slides into the top of the controller.

Nope, don't think so. Nintendo like to do things cheap and make it very accessible and user friendly. Much like the ipad!

 

[nincompoop]

Wii's was an 'everything' problem.

Even if it had a more respectable or modern GPU, architecture-wise, its memory and CPU would prevent 'HD' titles of even moderate ambition from running on the system.

How do you explain the Call of Duty series being ported to the Wii with the gameplay entirely intact? Modern Warfare wasn't ambitious? Almost every PS360 game could have received a similar treatment if developers were willing to put a modicum of effort into their ports.

 

[Nessus]

MS and Sony's next systems will probably be noticeably more powerful than this Wii HD or whatever.

But they both have reasons for not wanting to push the technological envelope too much.

MS went with cutting edge hardware this gen, but tried to do it on the cheap. The result was over a billion dollars in losses due to having to replace defective units, something that is still going on.

Sony pushed tech but didn't do it as cheaply and still lost billions selling hardware at a loss.

I think both of them, especially after witnessing the success of the comparatively underpowered Wii, wouldn't mind having a moderately more powerful system that doesn't cost as much to produce, something they might even be able to sell at a profit at or near launch.

To say nothing of ever increasing development costs.

 

[mugurumakensei]

You really can't see why including 2001 innards in a 2006 console and including 2001 innards in a 2012 console aren't the same situation? Especially since if they've planned for it from the start they can bring it in at ridiculously low prices, I wouldn't be surprised if they could include a CPU/GPU chip for less than $10.

just so we are clear the R700 is 2008 tech. The 360 gpu is 2004ish tech

 

[AceBandage]

Hopefully we'll see that come with some significant improvement in online infrastructure.



No reason at all it shouldn't have at least a gig.

Nintendo has already upped their online a good deal with the 3DS.
Their next console should evolve that into something very close to XBL.

 

[Emitan]

So there's still no confirmation of face buttons? What the hell, Nintendo? I was hoping for Classic Controller 2.0

No reason at all it shouldn't have at least a gig.

No reason at all it should still be a generation behind.

 

[JasoNsider]

I think the idea of watching Retro, EAD Tokyo, and whatever new Zelda adventure is in the pipe come to an ultra-powerful system is reason enough for most gamers to celebrate. Cool gadgetry aside, I really hope most people can agree with that.

 

[UntoldDreams]

The specs described thus far indicate Nintendo is going for parity with ps3/360 to get easy multiplatform porting done. They are finally caught up to this generation in cpu power.

Then, their hook for whatever this Tablet device controller is probably unveiled with some family friendly ONLINE setup.

This device was never intended to surpass 360/PS3 just reach parity graphically so 3rd parties could work on the device without going bonkers.

 

[AceBandage]

So there's still no confirmation of face buttons? What the hell, Nintendo? I was hoping for Classic Controller 2.0

What has been said is "it'll have the same buttons as the wavebird in function but not form".

 

[daebo]

I'm excited. I'm one of the few who want something new and an HD system from Nintendo should hold me over...

a lot of pages here, and i haven't skimmed them all... has there been any talk about how much an extra controller is going to be? i like to have 4 controllers for the family... With touch screen controller... Am I going to be spending more on controllers than the actual system itself???

 

[1-D_FTW]

This is my favorite mockup so far:

It's so simple and so brilliant. I would LOVE something like this.

That is pretty cool. I'm not sure it's feasible. And I'd like it much better at less than 16:9 ratio to keep the pointer controls. But it's got that whole arcade control panel art that's changeable based on context and that's very cool.

 

[jay]

Video chat through the controller screen sounds like a great idea and it may really appeal to people like me who aren't very interested in most online gaming. The problem with this strategy is that most core gamers are fine with voice only online gaming so Nintendo will probably be appealing to a minority of frequent gamers and then casual gamers - which seems like what they did with the Wii. Not that that wasn't successful for them, but if the stared goal is to expand their core reach it may not jive.

Whether or not it captures this or that audience, I hope it's true and am excited.

 

[gofreak]

How do you explain the Call of Duty series being ported to the Wii with the gameplay entirely intact? Modern Warfare wasn't ambitious?

I (spank me now) honestly haven't played the series much. If they're very scripted experiences, then maybe they're not so ambitious in their remit on the 'game' side?

If the Wii was capable of running 'next-gen' games in general, and didn't get them, then I think Nintendo has far bigger problems than the chips in their machines.

 

[Provider]

I'm not worrying about technical specs, it's Nintendo, in HD... I mean, we bought the Wii, we will buy this one and we will like it.

 

[neptunes]

MS and Sony's next systems will probably be noticeably more powerful than this Wii HD or whatever.

But they both have reasons for not wanting to push the technological envelope too much.

MS went with cutting edge hardware this gen, but tried to do it on the cheap. The result was over a billion dollars in losses due to having to replace defective units, something that is still going on.

Sony pushed tech but didn't do it as cheaply and still lost billions selling hardware at a loss.

I think both of them, especially after witnessing the success of the comparatively underpowered Wii, wouldn't mind having a moderately more powerful system that doesn't cost as much to produce, something they might even be able to sell at a profit at or near launch.

To say nothing of ever increasing development costs.

Both of their mistakes had nothing to do with the performance of their consoles,

Microsoft's mistake was more about HW design and QA, which they then later rectified.

The majority of the cost in a PS3 was the Blu-ray.

 

[Emitan]

What has been said is "it'll have the same buttons as the wavebird in function but not form".

Which sounds like a Classic Controller. The 'cube's button layout was awful.

 

[KenOD]

Wouldn't work at all.

It's the Lick! button isn't it? You don't want to lick a toad?

 

[EatChildren]

How do you explain the Call of Duty series being ported to the Wii with the gameplay entirely intact? Modern Warfare wasn't ambitious? Almost every PS360 game could have received a similar treatment if developers were willing to put a modicum of effort into their ports.

I dont think there's anything about the Call of Duty series that is particularly taxing on the CPU.

 

[heringer]

I bet Crysis 2 will be a lunch title.

 

[Bentendo]

The problem with this one is that the screen would be easy to lose once detached. Still looks nice though. I would like to have grips however.

It also looks easy to break. :/

 

[AceBandage]

I bet Crysis 2 will be a lunch title.

Crysis N. Staring Mario and Samus.

 

[gutterboy44]

The only way that controller mock up is possible would be with color E-Ink that would allow you to easily have holes and shapes within the screen. This would be ideal for static images that don't need to refresh in full motion (still a limitation of E-Ink)

Having an E-Ink controller would actually be pretty awesome. You could have on the fly updates of button functions and other HUD information. Moreover, E-Ink barely uses any electricity to run. As the image is displayed, zero power is used. As it is refreshed, very little is used. A full HD LCD screen seems like it would drain your controllers battery quickly.

Very intrigued.

 

[Lonely1]

I (spank me now) honestly haven't played the series much. If they're very scripted experiences, then maybe they're not so ambitious in their remit on the 'game' side?

If the Wii was capable of running 'next-gen' games in general, and didn't get them, then I think Nintendo has far bigger problems than the chips in their machines.

I can't be cause it lacks the feature set to run modern engines. Unlike the publishers decides is worthwhile to port the engine to Wii's arcane and archaic architecture, like the CoD series. Or TFU.

 

[H_Prestige]

Both of their mistakes had nothing to do with the performance of their consoles,

Microsoft's mistake was more about HW design and QA, which they then later rectified.

The majority of the cost in a PS3 was the Blu-ray.

Yup. Sony didn't go for underpowered hardware with the ngp. They won't skimp out on the ps4 either. MS I'm less sure of. I'm not sure what they want to do anymore with this casual kinect focus.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The problem with this one is that the screen would be easy to lose once detached. Still looks nice though. I would like to have grips however.

It also looks easy to break. :/

It's six inches. LOL. Ain't no way you're losing it.

 

[poppabk]

Please remember that:

Nintendo doesn't sell the hardware at a loss.

The price of the console doesn't cover just the components used, but also manufacturing costs (people), shipment, r&d, marketing, support staff, etc...

Remember also that they make hardware sturdy enough to be used by children (at least, they have done so up until now), so the controller can't be some kind of hyper-tech gadget that could easily break if mishandled.

Also, they can't release at a price too high...

Nintendo did sell the Gamecube at cost or possibly at a loss at first.

 

[Zeliard]

No reason at all it should still be a generation behind.

I don't think that's going to end up the case. We have no idea what they actually mean by "a notch above the 360" since we aren't privy to the exact specs yet. That could be a lot more significant than it sounds depending on what gets what boost, especially since we've had some contradictory info as far as the power of this thing.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm not worrying about technical specs, it's Nintendo, in HD... I mean, we bought the Wii, we will buy this one and we will like it.

I didn't buy a Wii.

In the end it'll come down to the games, same as any system.

 

[squicken]

Has there been a consensus yet? Is this system the beginning of "next gen", or simply a continuation of current gen?

 

[mugurumakensei]

I (spank me now) honestly haven't played the series much. If they're very scripted experiences, then maybe they're not so ambitious in their remit on the 'game' side?

If the Wii was capable of running 'next-gen' games in general, and didn't get them, then I think Nintendo has far bigger problems than the chips in their machines.

There haven't been many AI advances in years. Most of the CPU power these days goes to things like cloth simulations, projectile calculations, environmental damage, etc. If Nintendo really does go for an R700, a lot of that can be offloaded to the GPU leaving the CPU quite a bit more free compared to the XBox 360 as you're talking about a 2008 GPU vs. a halfway 2004/2005 GPU.

 

[Chaplain]

If this thing is really just about equal to the 360, Nintendo can eat one. That's right, eat a dick, Nintendo... until a new 3d Zelda or Mario comes out on it. Then; hi, here's my money.

Are you saying the image quality of Gear's 3 would disappoint you if that is what Nintendo graphics looked like?

 

[AceBandage]

Has there been a consensus yet? Is this system the beginning of "next gen", or simply a continuation of current gen?

Since generation isn't defined by power, it would be next gen. Plain and simple.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Nintendo did sell the Gamecube at cost or possibly at a loss at first.

I'm pretty sure they didn't (sell it at a loss), although obviously the R&D costs may have taken a while to be paid off.

 

[gofreak]

I can't be cause it lacks the feature set to run modern engines. Unlike the publishers decides is worthwhile to port the engine to Wii's arcane and archaic architecture, like the CoD series. Or TFU.

I think in a lot of cases it's more than just a renderer feature set, but a performance issue...but that's just what I'd guess looking at home other franchises came over to Wii (e.g. Dead Rising) and so on.

There is probably a production pipeline issue there too though, sure. Requiring effectively a totally different pipe, a totally different set of assets etc. possibly - along with market conditions - makes a Wii version uneconomical even if the 'game side' could run on the system.

There haven't been many AI advances in years. Most of the CPU power these days goes to things like cloth simulations, projectile calculations, environmental damage, etc. If Nintendo really does go for an R700, a lot of that can be offloaded to the GPU leaving the CPU quite a bit more free compared to the XBox 360 as you're talking about a 2008 GPU vs. a halfway 2004/2005 GPU.

As I said to brain_stew, I'm sure some stuff can be offloaded, but if that's the plan to get around any potential CPU issues, I hope there is a beefy enough GPU there. That it's a 2008 architecture doesn't necessarily tell us so, but hopefully...

 

[WillyFive]

This is my favorite mockup so far:

It's so simple and so brilliant. I would LOVE something like this.

I like that one too.

The problem with this one is that the screen would be easy to lose once detached. Still looks nice though. I would like to have grips however.

It also looks easy to break. :/

Way too complicated.

Has there been a consensus yet? Is this system the beginning of "next gen", or simply a continuation of current gen?

You are already there.

 

[Krev]

I'm pretty sure they didn't (sell it at a loss), although obviously the R&D costs may have taken a while to be paid off.

I believe they did, but only for a very small window.

Are you saying the image quality of Gear's 3 would disappoint you if that is what Nintendo graphics looked like?

The real Gears 3 looks nothing like that.

 

[evilromero]

The specs described thus far indicate Nintendo is going for parity with ps3/360 to get easy multiplatform porting done. They are finally caught up to this generation in cpu power.

Then, their hook for whatever this Tablet device controller is probably unveiled with some family friendly ONLINE setup.

This device was never intended to surpass 360/PS3 just reach parity graphically so 3rd parties could work on the device without going bonkers.

I still think the main concern for developers is the controller. That was the issue with the Wii more so than the graphics capabilities I think. It wasn't a case of downgrading their HD games but finding a useful way to take advantage of the Wii remote.

 

[Curufinwe]

How do you explain the Call of Duty series being ported to the Wii with the gameplay entirely intact? Modern Warfare wasn't ambitious? Almost every PS360 game could have received a similar treatment if developers were willing to put a modicum of effort into their ports.

Nice use of the lazy dev meme.

 

[Lonely1]

Yup. Sony didn't go for underpowered hardware with the ngp. They won't skimp out on the ps4 either. MS I'm less sure of. I'm not sure what they want to do anymore with this casual kinect focus.

They skimped in the NGP compared to the PSP, PS2 and PS3.

 

[schuelma]

I still think the main concern for developers is the controller. That was the issue with the Wii more so than the graphics capabilities I think. It wasn't a case of downgrading their HD games but finding a useful way to take advantage of the Wii remote.

100% disagree. The main problem was devs and pubs had already heavily invested in HD tech and the Wii tech just did not fit, period. The controller was absolutely not the issue- ease of porting was.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Are you saying the image quality of Gear's 3 would disappoint you if that is what Nintendo graphics looked like?

I love how you use a supersampled, photoshopped image to prove a point instead of posting a direct framebuffer grab like a reasonable person.

 

[AceBandage]

I still think the main concern for developers is the controller. That was the issue with the Wii more so than the graphics capabilities I think. It wasn't a case of downgrading their HD games but finding a useful way to take advantage of the Wii remote.

No, it was pretty much entirely the graphical capabilities of the Wii.

 

[wwm0nkey]

We already know this is using a R700 correct? So it will look better than the 360, not by a super holy shit next gen amount but will obviously be better and if it does have Blu-Ray say hello to high resolution textures

 

[dwu8991]

Has there been a consensus yet? Is this system the beginning of "next gen", or simply a continuation of current gen?

next-gen for nintendo games and thats all that matters unless you hate the controller.

 

[Fourth Storm]

New concept:
-Screen can attach to top of two wands or rest on a coffee table with built in stand.
-Option of free-hand dual wand style (wireless) or traditional controls
-When turned sideways, controllers allow for NES and SNES play style
-large A button on right hand controller for ease of use
-Triggers on upper portion of each controller
-Bumpers on lower portion (for squeezing or horizontal play styles)
-Dpads provide intuitive way to navigate 6" screen

 

[Chaplain]

I believe they did, but only for a very small window.
The real Gears 3 looks nothing like that.

With a modern CPU, decent GPU and 1 or 2 gigs of ram there shouldn't be a problem with those visuals.