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[gundamkyoukai]

I could absolutely see Sony using similar tech to the NGP. If you don't have to worry about battery life, you could supercharge those chipsets (more likely their successors) to the max. In fact, I fully expect this. You could easily do a console that maxes at 50-60 watts, is cheap and profitable at 299.99, and is a significant upgrade over 360/PS3.

Problem is, this is still a vast jump over current consoles. Is it anywhere near top end PCs? No. But so what. It doesn't have to be. Consoles are vastly more efficient. If rumors are to be believed, this isn't what Nintendo is doing. They went to IBM and ATI and said give us the lowest wattage parts you can make that match 360 performance.

Sony plans to lose money at the start of NGP life which tell us the still want to do high end stuff. It might not be crazy like there old stuff but there not being cheap spec wise.
I expect both MS and Sony next gen console will come at 400 .
Anyone thinking Sony not going to go high end does not know the company .

Nintendo will make profit from Wii HD day 1 . All they want is to get ports but if they mess up we might get another Wii with 3 party leaving them after Sony and MS come out .

 

[wsippel]

Is AMD Trinity only slightly more powerful than 360? Or would it be a really nice boost above 360 if Nintendo goes with the Trinity chipset?

Trinity is a multicore (2 to 4 cores) Bulldozer with an integrated D3D11 GPU. That thing blows any current console out of the water.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Wii emulation isn't actually confirmed yet, but yes they might need to include a PPC if the new chip isn't compatible.

Gotcha. Yes, I'm just speculating, but I think BC is a safe bet considering the size of the Wii userbase and Nintendo's track record under Iwata.

 

[brain_stew]

Everybody is so quick to forget what IGN said the 3DS was capable of. Graphics equal to the 360/PS3, they said. Why are we trusting their word again?

They never actually said that at all.

 

[scorcho]

Has anyone addressed this? The 360 has an in order execution processor, while the Wii has an OoOE processor. Would not Wii emulation be extremely difficult if the processor was even anything remotely like the 360's?

If Dolphin is any indicator, it would take some finagling, even if the specs are moderately high, in order to attain BC. That is unless they wastefully include the Wii chipset in the system, which I do not see happening.

Drop the Wii's price, introduce new system, profit. BC shouldn't hold Nintendo back from using a more modern CPU architecture, especially if the newer parts provide more than enough power to emulate GC/Wii at 480p.

 

[brain_stew]

It probably isn't the same.

It might be 3 cores, 3 PowerPC cores even, but they're probably not the same cores as Xenons. I'd expect OOoE cores for starters.

Power draw is very important to Nintendo, wider cores ran at a lower clockspeed is pretty much a given.

 

[The Lamp]

So so so so so so excited about this.

But slightly more powerful than the 360 and PS3? :l the 360 and PS3 were 2005/2006 technology...and 6 years later you're only marginally increasing its power?

Ugh.

C'est la vie I suppose.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Power draw is very important to Nintendo, wider cores ran at a lower clockspeed is pretty much a given.

That reminds me. I find the rumor of using the R700 strange because one the the biggest problems with that line is power draw. I know the HD4770 was successful and draws very little power. I think that might be the most likely candidate for the GPU if they are using something from the R7xx line.

 

[Manmademan]

Forgive my ignornace, but what would improve if the consoles had more RAM?

RAM limits how much the console can work with at any given time. Textures, audio, everything gets pulled from the disc (or hard drive) and loaded into RAM before the CPU or GPU can do any work.

As image quality gets better (1080p should be the target for next gen, honestly) you're going to need more, since higher quality images for textures eat more RAM. There's ways around this with clever programming- (I think it's possible to stream textures in some cases) - and different architectures and speeds can make a difference (sony splits their ram, and has two different speeds for video and system memory, microsoft does not) but really, more is better.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

 

[RaijinFY]

It probably isn't the same.

It might be 3 cores, 3 PowerPC cores even, but they're probably not the same cores as Xenons. I'd expect OOoE cores for starters.

I hope for their sake it's OoOE cores.

 

[Jikagi]

It doesn't really matter to me that it might just be slightly more powerful than the 360 except that I don't want what happened in this generation to happen in the next one.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

That would be a pretty big step for them as far as online goes.
I know that Pokemon allowed it, and the 3DS might, but having it as a main feature would be huge.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

This is a fairly good point actually. Even in Pokemon B/W, they have video conferencing.

 

[Chaplain]

All of this and more for $249. Right?

Spoiler

Wrong.

Nintendo currently manufactures 3DS' for $103. I imagine their pricing for the next Nintendo system would be comparable.

EDIT:

The iPad 2 costs Apple $326.60 & Kinect costs Microsoft $56.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Sony plans to lose money at the start of NGP life which tell us the still want to do high end stuff. It might not be crazy like there old stuff but there not being cheap spec wise.
I expect both MS and Sony next gen console will come at 400 .
Anyone thinking Sony not going to go high end does not know the company .

Nintendo will make profit from Wii HD day 1 . All they want is to get ports but if they mess up we might get another Wii with 3 party leaving them after Sony and MS come out .

The most expensive part if by far the OLED screen. And even then, tech people say the guts are fairly standard mobile parts and the system is cheap and elegant. We don't even know what they're charging yet. It's impossible to speculate whether they'll lose money or not.

And either way, unless Sony decides to copy the Nintendo controller, expensive OLED screens won't be a part of PS4.

 

[udivision]

Nintendo on the left, fans on the right...

 

[Lupin the Third]

I think they have a few options with regards to BC:

1) On-board condensed Wii chipset, in the vein of the 20/60GB PS3s.

2) Same as (1), but with beefed-up GPU spec to allow for higher-res (720p/1080p) output (which is not what PS3 did).

3) High enough spec to emulate Wii software, which would require a lot of manpower to code an emulator for.


One benefit to number (3) is that they can easily remove GameCube disc compatibility and resell the game digitally on a Virtual Console-like service (although some people might cry foul). If they retain GameCube BC, they would need a hardware solution for the controllers.

It would probably be easier to use the packed in "Wii Too"/"Cafe" controller with the GameCube software if it was running in emulation than if it was using a hardware solution for BC.

(Sure, the PS3 got the DS3 to work on PS2 software, but the Wii Remote and Classic Controller are worthless for playing GC on the Wii, so...it's anybody's guess how they'll approach this.)

 

[The Lamp]

It doesn't really matter to me that it might just be slightly more powerful than the 360 except that I don't want what happened in this generation to happen in the next one.

Well considering the Wii was slightly more powerful than the Xbox/GCN/PS2, this is kind of a repeat of last gen.

The Wii2, would, once again, be the underdog in performance.

 

[brain_stew]

Trinity is a multicore (2 to 4 cores) Bulldozer with an integrated D3D11 GPU. That thing blows any current console out of the water.

In its native implementation it will be extremely bottlenecked by bandwidth but that can easily be worked around in a closed box. Slap ~20MB of eDRAM as a shared L3 cache on die and use GDDR5 for main memory. Problem solved. You're looking at probably either a 640sp or 800sp GPU, meaning somewhere in the region of 5-6x the acheivable performance of Xenos with that sort of setup and it will be extremely developer friendly.

Considering you could probably get away with a cheap 64 bit bus and dual memory chip solution, board complexity will be way down even compared to the current iteration of the 360, meaning a very low BOM.

 

[Always-honest]

in terms of BC i might try two games.. that's probaby it.

 

[Chaplain]

Well considering the Wii was slightly more powerful than the Xbox/GCN/PS2, this is kind of a repeat of last gen.

The Wii2, would, once again, be the underdog in performance.

Underdog in performance compared to what? If this next system is as good, if not better than the PS3/360, that is good enough for allot of us right now. Like I said earlier, 360/PS3 are more than enough for hardware if they had 1 or 2 gigs of ram. Our current systems could do allot more if the ram was increased.

 

[dwu8991]

After the reading the french site again, the website clearly states it is wii tablet controller.

A tablet as a controller
We were talking yesterday of a lever "very original" ... and that's saying something. Coffee will be that of a tablet ...! Neither more nor less. Certainly, one should not expect an equivalent of the iPad. Contrary to information reported by Computerandvideogames , our sources say that the tablet screen is not high definition, but in standard definition, below the 720p. Its graphics performance have been described as modest, but sufficient for a variety of applications and concepts that remain to be invented.

The VMU for Dreamcast, a game device that heralded the Café.

enlarge
It would be a sort of "super VMU (the device from the Dreamcast, which included a storage memory and an LCD for mini-games) on steroids. The nature of the wireless connection to the console is still a mystery. A sensor corresponding to the sensor bar for Wii (that is to say, the receiver signals from the Wiimote) is integrated into the controller-pad. It remains unclear how it integrates processor, even if the choice of a small ARM seems more than likely.
The joystick-pad on the operating table
- Screen Size: 6 inches.
- Ergonomics: Digital Cross, L, R, two triggers, others.
- Touch screen: single touch .
- sensor for the Wiimote (replaces bar-sensor of the Wii).
- Camera: a front.

The cost is to be modest, it is understood that the performance is limited and the quality of manufacturing can be compared to that of an iPad or most tablets on the market. Remains whether this tablet will lend itself to mobile use, away from the console, for applications and games independent, with or without wireless connectivity. That fits in any case the continuity statements of Shigeru Miyamoto, who claimed to want to move towards a " new type of control and interface " .
This innovation will certainly inspire many ideas to the developers of the Earth. The Dreamcast VMU or using the Game Boy Advance as a controller with an extra screen in games like Zelda: Four Swords gave us a taste of what we can expect from this any new type of controller. One can easily imagine a lot of games for everyone to hide his hand, underhanded strategies to deploy, to forge secret alliances with other players, so many impossible things when everyone plays on a single screen.

 

[Fourth Storm]

That would be a pretty big step for them as far as online goes.
I know that Pokemon allowed it, and the 3DS might, but having it as a main feature would be huge.

Wow, that only strengthens the case. I wasn't even aware of video conferencing in B/W.

Being able to see your friends' faces without them taking up TV space would be a great use for the controller screen. (And to those who say you have to look away from the TV to see them, you need to do that in real life too, duh).

I can see this being a feature that both casuals and core games will eat up, and done in a typically unique Nintendo way.

 

[AceBandage]

Nintendo on the left, fans on the right...

If SMG1/2 didn't have good graphics, nothing did.

 

[Eteric Rice]

in terms of BC i might try two games.. that's probaby it.

These better be the galaxy titles, son.

Oh, and DKCR.

 

[Always-honest]

If SMG1/2 didn't have good graphics, nothing did.

yup, but made ugly by jaggies and low res. Artists hold back by tech.

Still, even those graphics could be a lot better.

These better be the galaxy titles, son.

Oh, and DKCR.

EXACTLY those.

 

[Chittagong]

I said if these specs are real. I did not mean to offend you

don't worry it's not you it's nintendo

 

[Slime]

Here's my terrible attempt at a mock-up, using my non-existent Photoshop skills:

I think it'll be as minimalistic possible button-wise, with a limited number of buttons available for various sorts of navigation. More precise in-game movements will be done using either the touch screen or motion control, or both. The thing will feel less like a controller and more like a tablet.

I'm probably super completely way off, but it's rainy outside and I'm bored.

 

[effzee]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

hmmm.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Here's my terrible attempt at a mock-up, using my non-existent Photoshop skills:

I think it'll be as minimalistic possible button-wise, with a limited number of buttons available for various sorts of navigation. More precise in-game movements will be done using either the touch screen or motion control, or both.

I'm probably super completely way off, but it's rainy outside and I'm bored.

The rumors say that it'll have analog sticks, so I'd ad those. Also, add two more buttons.

Other than that I'd say you're pretty spot on for whats in my mind.

 

[H_Prestige]

I think they have a few options with regards to BC:

1) On-board condensed Wii chipset, in the vein of the 20/60GB PS3s.

2) Same as (1), but with beefed-up GPU spec to allow for higher-res (720p/1080p) output (which is not what PS3 did).

3) High enough spec to emulate Wii software, which would require a lot of manpower to code an emulator for.


One benefit to number (3) is that they can easily remove GameCube disc compatibility and resell the game digitally on a Virtual Console-like service (although some people might cry foul). If they retain GameCube BC, they would need a hardware solution for the controllers.

It would probably be easier to use the packed in "Wii Too"/"Cafe" controller with the GameCube software if it was running in emulation than if it was using a hardware solution for BC.

(Sure, the PS3 got the DS3 to work on PS2 software, but the Wii Remote and Classic Controller are worthless for playing GC on the Wii, so...it's anybody's guess how they'll approach this.)

If they sell GC games on VC, they will need a solution for controllers anyway. Whether they allow you to load GC discs or not doesn't change that.

Would Nintendo really have a hard time coding a no frills Wii emulator? AFAIK the Wii and GC aren't like the ps2 that had a really strange GPU.

 

[chubigans]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

As others have said, Cafe probably means absolutely nothing, much like the Dolphin, Project Reality, and Revolution did.

 

[AceBandage]

If they sell GC games on VC, they will need a solution for controllers anyway. Whether they allow you to load GC discs or not doesn't change that.

Would Nintendo really have a hard time coding a no frills Wii emulator? AFAIK the Wii and GC aren't like the ps2 that had a really strange GPU.

Dolphin was reversed engineered from scratch.
Nintendo would be able to make a much better emulation engine, seeing as how they basically designed the Wii/GC tech.

As others have said, Cafe probably means absolutely nothing, much like the Dolphin, Project Reality, and Revolution did.

Actually, PR and Revolution both did mean something.
Project Reality was in reference to a true leap to 3D graphics.
Revolution... well that one is obvious. Nintendo kept on and on about how it would "revolutionize" the industry.
Nitro and Century on the other hand, are completely meaningless.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

These better be the galaxy titles, son.

Oh, and DKCR House of the Dead OVERKILL.

Fixed.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Underdog in performance compared to what? If this next system is as good, if not better than the PS3/360, that is good enough for allot of us right now. Like I said earlier, 360/PS3 are more than enough for hardware if they had 1 or 2 gigs of ram.

Let's argue everything you say is true. Let's say developers decide this will be the baseline for their engines for the next gen. Let's say MS goes the minimalist (and smart) route and uses a Fusion processor. They're going to be able to up port every single Nintendo HD game to 1080P and 60 fps without any work or expense. Which version do you think consumers are going to buy? 720P/30fps/crap online or Sony or MS offerings that use the extra beef to run those engines at 1080P/60fps. This new system isn't going to by anything other than the Nintendo games machine.

 

[From The Dust]

games like Phantasy Star Online would be amazing on this controller at least. it's the best keyboard/gamepad combo.

 

[NEO0MJ]

If SMG1/2 didn't have good graphics, nothing did.

Not enough gray. But like some say it's not just the graphics. Physics and other stuff benefit greatly from more power.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

I'm thinking if we are getting rumors of the system being dubbed "Project: Cafe" and including a screen on the controller and a front facing camera, Nintendo MUST be planning video conferencing to be a main feature.

It makes too much sense. What do people do in Cafes (besides drink coffee)? Chat with their friends face to face. And Nintendo has always disliked online gaming for not being as intimate as being in the same room with people.

That... Actually makes a ton of sense given the front facing camera and 6 inch screen rumors. Very interesting and clever speculation.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm perfectly happy with slightly about 360 levels. Why, because I'm not a graphics whore. All I want is Nintendo's franchises in HD, that's it, since Nintendo's console is the only one I'm going to get next gen. I have a kid now, I can't afford to buy all 3 systems anymore (and honestly, this gen really disappointed me).

Are you a game play whore? Because more power can give a game a better frame rate as well which makes it play smoother.

 

[Chaplain]

Let's argue everything you say is true. Let's say developers decide this will be the baseline for their engines for the next gen. Let's say MS goes the minimalist (and smart) route and uses a Fusion processor. They're going to be able to up port every single Nintendo HD game to 1080P and 60 fps without any work or expense. Which version do you think consumers are going to buy? 720P/30fps/crap online or Sony or MS offerings that use the extra beef to run those engines at 1080P/60fps. This new system isn't going to by anything other than the Nintendo games machine.

Assuming PS4 and 720 are using real next gen tech:

Not all companies will want to spend between $60 to $100 million to make their triple AAA games next gen. Nintendo would have an advantage if they were the cheaper alternative with a higher install base.

 

[dwu8991]

The rumors say that it'll have analog sticks, so I'd ad those. Also, add two more buttons.

Other than that I'd say you're pretty spot on for whats in my mind.

I like the shape and design, very nintendo like.

 

[brain_stew]

This thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Seems to think it's the AMD Trinity. If it's true the Dev kits probably wouldn't even have it yet. That would explain the conflicting rumors about the specs.

So unless Microsoft or Sony are releasing a console in 2012, it's probably Nintendo thats using the AMD Trinity.

Its entirely possible AMD are architectting the system from memory controller to GPU to internal cache design and simply using PowerPC cores instead of x86 cores. Many forget that the latest iteration of the 360's CPU does exactly this (except IBM led the design) so that level of communication and cooperation has already happened between the companies on a console chip design just a year or two ago.

Ultimately whether the CPU cores are x86 or PowerPC is academic. The design could still be derived from AMD Trinnity even if it usesPowerPC cores

 

[thefro]

Are you a game play whore? Because more power can give a game a better frame rate as well which makes it play smoother.

Developers are going to put that power towards everything but framerates unless it's mandated that all games must run at 60 FPS.

 

[Mr_Brit]

In terms of supporting BC, what reason does Nintendo have for not just sticking a reduced manufacturing process(say 45 or 32nm) Wii chipset on the motherboard? This means that they don't have to worry about BC when choosing and designing the CPU/GPU and memory and by then a 32nm Wii GPU/CPU combo would cost less than $20 to make.

 

[WrikaWrek]

If SMG1/2 didn't have good graphics, nothing did.

Fans aren't asking for a couple of games with good graphics and hundreds with ugly graphics.

That's not the point.

It's actually sad that you even pointed to those games, only further shows how some nintendo fans miss the point other gamers make.

Its not one, or two, or three games. I want all games to have a certain level of graphics on nintendo's next system.

 

[M74]

So one developer comments that the N6 is being done in a way that's not gimmicky like the Wii, implying it's a directly competitive rig, but then we have all this discussion of how the N6 will be underpowered. No telling how this thing will be received by developers.

 

[H_Prestige]

In terms of supporting BC, what reason does Nintendo have for not just sticking a reduced manufacturing process(say 45 or 32nm) Wii chipset on the motherboard? This means that they don't have to worry about BC when choosing and designing the CPU/GPU and memory and by then a 32nm Wii GPU/CPU combo would be less than $20 to make.

Ask Sony about that.

 

[ombz]

Please Nintendo
http://www.cubed3.com/media/2009/July/jb/hdmgalaxy/1.jpg

 

[gofreak]

Let's argue everything you say is true. Let's say developers decide this will be the baseline for their engines for the next gen. Let's say MS goes the minimalist (and smart) route and uses a Fusion processor. They're going to be able to up port every single Nintendo HD game to 1080P and 60 fps without any work or expense. Which version do you think consumers are going to buy? 720P/30fps/crap online or Sony or MS offerings that use the extra beef to run those engines at 1080P/60fps. This new system isn't going to by anything other than the Nintendo games machine.

If the games are available on Nintendo's machine in the first place, then that would at least be an improvement, and IMO would be 'enough' to be a respectable effort.

The PS2 ran away with things despite at least one competitor offering better looking multiplat games. Key was its content access - it was totally comprehensive.

Nintendo, IMO, should be trying to aim for that with their next system. A system that can remain viable for third party multiplat games for the duration of the next generation, not just for tail-ends of the current generation.

How much or how little power they can get away with, I think, depends more on how devs envisage the scope and complexity of games scaling, beyond rendering improvements. Wii's problem wasn't simply a rendering one, it was an 'everything' one. It didn't have nearly enough memory or CPU power to run the same games (rendering aside) as 360/PS3. Nintendo should hopefully make sure their new system can run the same games (rendering aside) as PS4/720 - they can cut corners on resolution or texturing or shader complexity, but being able to run 'the game' and leverage (more or less) the same production pipeline is key to being able to offer comprehensive content access.

(Along, of course, with the right business and market environment etc. etc.)