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[Kai Dracon]

Every generation has "the others" that are "totally ruining gaming".

I remember when people were mad that RPGs were being played by people who hadn't even played them on the NES.

Or the generation where people were being suckered in by shitty controllers with D-Pads and saccharine-sweet run-righters like Super Mario Bros.

Or the generation where Halo was bringing in those brutes that wore backwards hats and only played first-person games.

Every single one shared one sentiment in common: "Why can't things be the way they used to be?"

"Fan" is derived from "fanatic" and dedicated gamers tend to be big fans. Thus, everyone always wants gaming to exist primarily to serve them and them alone. Whatever it is their tastes happen to be.

Some might say "well who gives a shit, of course I want what's best for me! Fuck everyone this industry should revolve around me, then I gots the best of the best!"

Except that's a very immature and short sighted attitude. When the industry goes monoculture, it always results on games getting worse. Not better. A glut of first person shooters, or racers, or yes, so-called "casual" games just degrades quality across the board.

So the people damning "the casuals" or the Others, just want nothing but JRPGs or maybe sim racers or maybe WRPGs or maybe platformers or maybe 2D games - in other words, they want the industry to be the same wasteland for everyone else, that a supposedly casualized industry is for them.

Which is really a huge lie, anyway. People who complain seem to paint it as the industry is now "ruined" because there's Angry Birds players or Madden fans by the million, but the industry has never HAD so many games in such variety, choking every single genre.

Jesus christ... in the middle of this supposedly "sell out, casual garbage" generation, we've witnessed the complete and total rebirth of the arcade fighting game, the return to sales domination of the 2D platformer, and the mainstream success and awareness of the niche hardcore RPG like Demon's Souls.

And this is the "ruined by teh casuals" generation? Ha ha, get outta town with that junk. It's just childish whining by those who can't stand it when something they don't like is successful, even if that success is not taking anything away from them.

Nintendo fans can't complain either. They have been and are getting more and better "hardcore" Nintendo games this generation than they ever did with the supposedly "far better than Wii" Gamecube. You don't get to call Nintendo a sellout when they just can't stop making Super Mario Galaxy games and they invent an entire technology dedicated to making sure your grown up 'tendo games can be made super f**king hard.

Swear ta god, Mother 3 could come out in English in freakin' 3D on the 3DS and come with an arranged OST performed by the London Philharmonic... and it was released on the same day as Brain Age 3D, guys would choke up the interwebs cryin' about how Nintendo's a god damn sellout and just makes casual games.

Folks just want to bitch.

 

[evangd007]

exactly. thats why i think going all out with a new console is a mistake unless they have some mind bending new feature or gimmick that will pull in the casuals once again.

Is a tablet controller not radical enough for you? It caused irreparable sanity damage to many gaffers that attempted to rationalize its form.

 

[joshwaan]

I'm very much looking forward to E3 for this news and NGP news also

My Wishlist for the console:

AMD chip 2GHZ bulldozer be very nice.
AMD ATI R800 Series Chip in there
At Least 1GB Memory fuck Nintendo it's fucking cheap don't give us 384MB or some shit.
The controller sounds very strange but cool in a way.

It's a next gen console for god sake, give us some bells and whistles on the inside hardware for once.

Anyways I hope to see something like this, I'm pumped

I think these games are a given.

Next gen Metriod
Next gen F-zero
Next gen Zelda
Next gen Mario
Next gen Mario Kart
Next Gen Pilot Wings
Next Gen Animal Crossing


My wishlist make it happen Nintendo for us old fans.

Next Gen Battle Toads
Next Gen Remake of Yoshi's Island man drool
Next Gen Rockn Roll Racing
Next Gen Top Gear Rally
Next Gen Killer Instinct 3

Oh hell yeah Hype fuking

 

[farnham]

I think with this upcoming generation Nintendo will be ever better with the moves they make on both the 3DS and Super Wii.
Honestly, the Wii and DS were their testbeds for all their ideas they had, and they had decent success with them. Now that they've had 6/5 years to figure out how to make the market respond (and oh did it ever), they've probably got a much better idea of what sells to what crowds, and probably have a better idea on how to handle the pacing of a system that caters to bother the "Casual" and "Hardcore" markets.

I think with their new systems, there will be more constant flow of quality games for both audiences, and that we won't have significant droughts from them like we have in the past.

The 3DS already seems to be doing good in this regard, with all their announced games and all. We'll probably be seeing a quality Nintendo release on them every 2-4 months, and good third-party efforts year round. (also 3rd party multiplats back on a Nintendo home console excite me)

i thought i was making understatements

 

[Thoraxes]

My Wishlist for the console:

Next gen Metriod
Next gen F-zero
Next gen Zelda
Next gen Mario
Next gen Mario Kart
Next Gen Pilot Wings

Don't forget Animal Crossing!

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I doubt we will ever see a Crysis like game from the west ever again anyways. The West has gone full speed into lowest common denominator mode.

Crysis 2 would play like butter on a speculative modest Wii 2

I think he meant R770, R700 was code name for 4870 X2 card. And why do people keep comparing the PC platform to a consoles platform that is designed to reduce any possible bottlenecks. IMO, Crysis was a DX10 game ahead of its time, if it had access to more than 2 processor cores it would have ran as smooth as butter. Multi-thread rendering was so needed when that game launched.

 

[brochiller]

Lol gamers will never be happy. Nintendo goes for the casuals, "wah, they're not catering to me anymore." Nintendo goes for the gamers, "wah, it's gonna be another GameCube."

Hah, this is pretty spot on.

 

[Shalashaska161]

Lol gamers will never be happy. Nintendo goes for the casuals, "wah, they're not catering to me anymore." Nintendo goes for the gamers, "wah, it's gonna be another GameCube."

This applies to pretty much everything on GAF ever. Hell hath no fury like a nerd scorned.

 

[From The Dust]

Folks just want to bitch.

bitching is a gaming pasttime. it's an intergral part of gaming culture. it just wouldn't be the same without it

 

[farnham]

Is a tablet controller not radical enough for you? It caused irreparable sanity damage to many gaffers that attempted to rationalize its form.

yeah that tablet controller is nothing that screams as revolutionary as the wii

similar results can be achieved with nintendo ds / nintendo wii connectivity

Lol gamers will never be happy. Nintendo goes for the casuals, "wah, they're not catering to me anymore." Nintendo goes for the gamers, "wah, it's gonna be another GameCube."

i dont remember being negative about the direction DS or Wii went despite knowing that those woul dmean that nintendo wont make many so called hardcore nintendo games.

well it turned out great for me as wii line of games were my favorite nintendo games in years (wii sports incl resort, wii play and wii music in particular)

 

[HYDE]

"Fan" is derived from "fanatic" and dedicated gamers tend to be big fans. Thus, everyone always wants gaming to exist primarily to serve them and them alone. Whatever it is their tastes happen to be.

Some might say "well who gives a shit, of course I want what's best for me! Fuck everyone this industry should revolve around me, then I gots the best of the best!"

Except that's a very immature and short sighted attitude. When the industry goes monoculture, it always results on games getting worse. Not better. A glut of first person shooters, or racers, or yes, so-called "casual" games just degrades quality across the board.

So the people damning "the casuals" or the Others, just want nothing but JRPGs or maybe sim racers or maybe WRPGs or maybe platformers or maybe 2D games - in other words, they want the industry to be the same wasteland for everyone else, that a supposedly casualized industry is for them.

Which is really a huge lie, anyway. People who complain seem to paint it as the industry is now "ruined" because there's Angry Birds players or Madden fans by the million, but the industry has never HAD so many games in such variety, choking every single genre.

Jesus christ... in the middle of this supposedly "sell out, casual garbage" generation, we've witnessed the complete and total rebirth of the arcade fighting game, the return to sales domination of the 2D platformer, and the mainstream success and awareness of the niche hardcore RPG like Demon's Souls.

And this is the "ruined by teh casuals" generation? Ha ha, get outta town with that junk. It's just childish whining by those who can't stand it when something they don't like is successful, even if that success is not taking anything away from them.

Nintendo fans can't complain either. They have been and are getting more and better "hardcore" Nintendo games this generation than they ever did with the supposedly "far better than Wii" Gamecube. You don't get to call Nintendo a sellout when they just can't stop making Super Mario Galaxy games and they invent an entire technology dedicated to making sure your grown up 'tendo games can be made super f**king hard.

Swear ta god, Mother 3 could come out in English in freakin' 3D on the 3DS and come with an arranged OST performed by the London Philharmonic... and it was released on the same day as Brain Age 3D, guys would choke up the interwebs cryin' about how Nintendo's a god damn sellout and just makes casual games.

Folks just want to bitch.

Good point, it's like a fan of a band who stops liking the band, because someone else found out about them and likes them too. How dare you have similar tastes as me!
There are people who will go so far as stop liking the band, just because they become popular by others. Same holds true with all entertainment it seems.
Once again a great, and extremely relevant point.

 

[Thoraxes]

i thought i was making understatements

I don't mean financially, I mean the way their innovation (motion-controls) were implemented into games from both Nintendo and 3rd parties.

Nintendo has had amazing success with it, but 3rd parties have not fared as well.

Financially, this is how I feel about their success:

 

[brochiller]

Next Gen Remake of Yoshi's Island man drool

My God a new Yoshi's Island in HD using a similar art style would be magnificent.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Lol gamers will never be happy. Nintendo goes for the casuals, "wah, they're not catering to me anymore." Nintendo goes for the gamers, "wah, it's gonna be another GameCube."

It's going to be the same power as 360. Don't worry, the hardware will still be 1 generation behind once the PS4 and 720 come out

 

[Angry Fork]

Lol gamers will never be happy. Nintendo goes for the casuals, "wah, they're not catering to me anymore." Nintendo goes for the gamers, "wah, it's gonna be another GameCube."

I don't think anyone is saying this. Nobody is in favor of Nintendo going for casuals, at least nobody sane who cares about gaming.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

It's going to be the same power as 360. Don't worry, the hardware will still be 1 generation behind once the PS4 and 720 come out

And you know this for a fact.

So what does the controller actually look like, Mr. Insider?

 

[farnham]

I don't think anyone is saying this. Nobody is in favor of Nintendo going for casuals, at least nobody sane who cares about gaming.

so im insane because i think it was a good move from nintendo to go to the casual side and because i enjoy the wii__ line of games a lot more then most of the so called hardcore nintendo stuff ?

 

[Boney]

so im insane because i think it was a good move from nintendo to go to the casual side and because i enjoy the wii__ line of games a lot more then most of the so called hardcore nintendo stuff ?

you're just insane

 

[farnham]

I don't mean financially, I mean the way their innovation (motion-controls) were implemented into games from both Nintendo and 3rd parties.

Nintendo has had amazing success with it, but 3rd parties have not fared as well.

Financially, this is how I feel about their success:

sometimes i feel nintendo has to be some kind of father figure to the third parties.

those are companies that have taken actions and are responsible for it.

in this case they just missed huge opportunities and they are responsible for their own actions not nintendo

you're just insane

care to explain ?

 

[Shalashaska161]

I don't think anyone is saying this. Nobody is in favor of Nintendo going for casuals, at least nobody sane who cares about gaming.

I don't care if Nintendo if goes for the casuals as long as they keep creating games that appeal to me, which they have. They gave us a new Sin and Punishment this generation for gods sakes that game is the definition of anti-casual.

 

[watershed]

This is something I've been wondering, what will be the distinction between 1st party 3ds games and 1st party N6 games? Obviously besides being 3d on one and hd on the other. Looking at the 3ds mario game that's been announced it looks a lot like galaxy. And earlier someone mentioned animal crossing, and I can't figure out what would distinguish an animal crossing 3ds from animal crossing on the N6. I guess the distinguishing feature besides the visuals (which I don't think will be too dramatic on stuff like animal crossing) will be whatever N6's main draw is?

 

[KenOD]

I have a PS3 and Xbox 360 that can act as a media centre and I don't use either for that. I should get money back for paying for something I don't want. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

Then explain how the Wii took off. The GC and N64 weren't the great bastion of 3rd party games

I know Gamecube wasn't the greatest for 3rd Parties, but man did I love that system for all the fun titles I got on it from them. REmake and RE4, Baten Kaitos, Killer 7, Timesplitters 2, Rogue Squadron II (for Rogue Squadron co-op), Viewtiful Joe series, Beyond Good & Evil, DreamMix TV World Fighters, F-Zero GX (SEGA did it), Ikaruga, Scaler, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, Odama (where the hell is our sequel, I demand more Pinball RTS), that Kinnikuman, and more.

No matter what the system is, I've always found plenty of great third party games on a Nintendo device (never tried Virtual Boy or 64DD though), so as long as that continues, I'm happy no matter what place the console is or what market it picks. Besides, I'll have at least one other system to make up for Nintendo doesn't get.

 

[Foffy]

My God a new Yoshi's Island in HD using a similar art style would be magnificent.

Yoshi's Island DS totally put me off of wanting more Yoshi platformers. Artoon got me with a double hitter: First with Yoshi's Topsy-Turvy, then Yoshi's Island DS.

Spoiler

I'd be all over that shit if Good-Feel made it.

 

[farnham]

I have a PS3 and Xbox 360 that can act as a media centre and I don't use either for that. I should get money back for paying for something I don't want. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.



I know Gamecube wasn't the greatest for 3rd Parties, but man did I love that system for all the fun titles I got on it from them. REmake and RE4, Baten Kaitos, Killer 7, Timesplitters 2, Rogue Squadron II (for Rogue Squadron co-op), Viewtiful Joe series, Beyond Good & Evil, DreamMix TV World Fighters, F-Zero GX (SEGA did it), Ikaruga, The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, Odama (where the hell is our sequel, I demand more Pinball RTS), that Kinnikuman, and more.

No matter what the system is, I've always found plenty of great third party games on a Nintendo device (never tried Virtual Boy or 64DD though), so as long as that continues, I'm happy no matter what place the console is.

its not like wii has its handful of good third party titles. id argue it has more of it.

but as i said. it did not get serious backing of the big thirdparty publishers like a 360 or a ps2 did

Yoshi's Island DS totally put me off of wanting more Yoshi platformers. Artoon got me with a double hitter: First with Yoshi's Topsy-Turvy, then Yoshi's Island DS.

Spoiler

I'd be all over that shit if Good-Feel made it.

YIDS wasnt that bad

Yoshis Story is way worse

 

[apana]

You guys are getting into the most horrible forum discussion known to man: Casuals vs Hardcore. Here let me post pictures of some remotes so we can get back to the spirit of this thread:

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

I know this has been probably been talked about over and over but if all this is true, I dont get Nintendo's approach. If it is a little more powerful than the ps3 or 360, they are essentially producing a new system at a higher price point that may not show any high disparity between it and the existing hd systems.

In 2012 when it launches, The 360 and/or ps3 will be at lower price points with huge existing libraries. Why would somebody upgrade to a new more expensive system that has to start a game library over? Plus with the inevitability of new consoles coming out in 2013(or potentially sooner) that will be more powerful than the "new" Nintendo system, they are putting themselves behind again.

 

[metareferential]

I have a PS3 and Xbox 360 that can act as a media centre and I don't use either for that. I should get money back for paying for something I don't want. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

You're buying, you're accepting the deal, the contract, as a whole.

As others said, if you don't agree with an offer, you refuse it. You don't accept it and then ask part of the money back.

That isn't a reasonable argument, it's faulty logic to begin with.

 

[Phonomezer]

Touchscreen controller sounds like they'll be packing in some sort of proof of concept software again like WiiSports and Kinect Adventures.

Shame if they change the name because "WiiTouch" or "WiiRub" has a nice ring to it.

 

[KenOD]

You're buying, you're accepting the deal, the contract, as a whole.

As others said, if you don't agree with an offer, you refuse it. You don't accept and then ask part of the money back.

That isn't a reasonable argument, it's faulty logic to begin with.

It was also a joke. They offer more that makes them worth buying then just the Media Centre abilities and the 3DS offers more that makes it worth buying then just 3D use.

 

[joshwaan]

I loved the Art Style and the wicked music in Yoshi's Island the level design was great.

I really do hope they remake a couple of old games to HD.

Super Metroid, Yoshi's Island , Pilot Wings is all I ask Nintendo

 

[Angry Fork]

I don't care if Nintendo if goes for the casuals as long as they keep creating games that appeal to me, which they have. They gave us a new Sin and Punishment this generation for gods sakes that's the definition of anti-casual right there.

I don't disagree but I do think it's worth looking at the ratio of crap that's put out vs. the core stuff. If they want to go for casuals that's fine but at least give core people a fair slice of the pie as well, which they didn't do with the Wii imo.

I always point out PS2 as the example. PS2 didn't have any of that Wii____ shit nor did it have obscenely ridiculous baby-oriented games but it's still arguably the best console ever (and sold the most) because it had soooo many games of so many genres (except maybe FPS). You could attribute most of that to 3rd party offerings but it's Nintendo's own fault they have shitty relations with 3rd parties and that's why their consoles end up floundering when it comes to core games.

And I honestly don't believe it's the gamers fault for the lack of 3rd party stuff on the Wii. You could blame it on Capcom for making their stuff into rail shooters or whatever, but I wouldn't even blame them either because there's stuff like Okami that sold like shit also. Capcom knows this and was just trying to make sure they didn't waste money. It all comes down to what the Wii demographic is, and most people that bought a Wii don't play games like Okami, that's Nintendo's fault. Their entire marketing strategy, hardware, etc. all that stuff is geared towards noobs and people who don't care about games.

So in the end all the people who buy games like Okami stuck with PS3/360 (and Okami couldn't come to these platforms unfortunately because of dev costs) and whenever good 3rd party games came out on Wii they sold like shit because only a small minority of core people play Wii regularly. (And "core" people are already small compared to the casual majority, so imagine how small that number is if you consider the fact that most core people are on PS3/360/PC).

 

[ReyVGM]

ahahahahahah

You're really not talking about the Move controller, are you? The one Sony was developing back in 2000? Give me a break.

Oh please, that's a Wiimote copy pure and simple. They might have been "developing" since 2000, but it was after the Wii that they probably figured out what to do with it.

 

[Foffy]

YIDS wasnt that bad

Yoshis Story is way worse

This is true. Even if you play the game in Trial mode and only collect the fruits Yoshi likes, it's still a lame game.

 

[metareferential]

It was also a joke. They offer more that makes them worth buying then just the Media Centre abilities and the 3DS offers more that makes it worth buying then just 3D use.

I'm sorry, it's late saturday night (hell, it's sunday morning already), my sarcasm detector's busted.

 

[farnham]

I don't disagree but I do think it's worth looking at the ratio of crap that's put out vs. the core stuff. If they want to go for casuals that's fine but at least give core people a fair slice of the pie as well, which they didn't do with the Wii imo.

I always point out PS2 as the example. PS2 didn't have any of that Wii____ shit nor did it have obscenely ridiculous baby-oriented games but it's still arguably the best console ever (and sold the most) because it had soooo many games of so many genres (except maybe FPS). You could attribute most of that to 3rd party offerings but it's Nintendo's own fault they have shitty relations with 3rd parties and that's why their consoles end up floundering when it comes to core games.

And I honestly don't believe it's the gamers fault for the lack of 3rd party stuff on the Wii. You could blame it on Capcom for making their stuff into rail shooters or whatever, but I wouldn't even blame them either because there's stuff like Okami that sold like shit also. Capcom knows this and was just trying to make sure they didn't waste money. It all comes down to what the Wii demographic is, and most people that bought a Wii don't play games like Okami, that's Nintendo's fault. Their entire marketing strategy, hardware, etc. all that stuff is geared towards noobs and people who don't care about games. So in the end all the people who buy games like Okami stuck with PS3/360 and whenever good 3rd party games came out on Wii they sold like shit because only a small minority of core people play Wii regularly. (And "core" people are already small compared to the casual majority, so imagine how small that number is if you consider the fact that most core people are on PS3/360/PC).

just because you dont like it doesnt mean its shit, sir

 

[watershed]

its not like wii has its handful of good third party titles. id argue it has more of it.

but as i said. it did not get serious backing of the big thirdparty publishers like a 360 or a ps2 did
YIDS wasnt that bad

Yoshis Story is way worse

So I agree with half of what you say and think the other half is crazy. But what is your position with what you want the N6 or superwii to be?

For example I want it to have enough processing power to attract AAA 3rd party games. I want it to retain that Nintendo magic, whatever feature sets or unique functions that make it a machine that Sony or Microsoft would never dream of. I also want it to have a high capacity storage medium, like blu-ray and have a better online proposition like eshop, unified friend codes, invite system etc.

 

[farnham]

So I agree with half of what you say and think the other half is crazy. But what is your position with what you want the N6 or superwii to be?

For example I want it to have enough processing power to attract AAA 3rd party games. I want it to retain that Nintendo magic, whatever feature sets or unique functions that make it a machine that Sony or Microsoft would never dream of. I also want it to have a high capacity storage medium, like blu-ray and have a better online proposition like eshop, unified friend codes, invite system etc.

1. have enough horsepower to match the next xbox and the next ps not the current one
2. release after the next ps and xbox or at least at the same time
3. have a feature that can convince casuals that the new system really is something new (3D without glasses for example did not do it so far)

 

[ThatObviousUser]

And I honestly don't believe it's the gamers fault for the lack of 3rd party stuff on the Wii. You could blame it on Capcom for making their stuff into rail shooters or whatever, but I wouldn't even blame them either because there's stuff like Okami that sold like shit also. Capcom knows this and was just trying to make sure they didn't waste money. It all comes down to what the Wii demographic is, and most people that bought a Wii don't play games like Okami, that's Nintendo's fault. Their entire marketing strategy, hardware, etc. all that stuff is geared towards noobs and people who don't care about games.

So in the end all the people who buy games like Okami stuck with PS3/360 (and Okami couldn't come to these platforms unfortunately because of dev costs) and whenever good 3rd party games came out on Wii they sold like shit because only a small minority of core people play Wii regularly. (And "core" people are already small compared to the casual majority, so imagine how small that number is if you consider the fact that most core people are on PS3/360/PC).

Using Okami as an example. Okami Wii sold very very closely to what it sold on PS2, which was by your own positioning, "a super-duper hardcore gamer's console" which had a far larger install base relative to when each version was released. Okami Wii did pretty fantastic for a bare-bones last-gen port.

 

[watershed]

1. have enough horsepower to match the next xbox and the next ps not the current one
2. release after the next ps and xbox or at least at the same time
3. have a feature that can convince casuals that the new system really is something new (3D without glasses for example did not do it so far)

I agree with number 1 completely. If number 2 means sometime after holiday of 2012 I disagree. With number 3 I agree as well, not because it will excite "casuals" but because if the feature is interesting enough it will attract me as a gamer. As far as the 3d on the 3DS goes I don't know how its going to work out, its only been out a month. Also the AR features of the 3ds are great but its not being focused on at the moment.

 

[Doorman]

This is something I've been wondering, what will be the distinction between 1st party 3ds games and 1st party N6 games? Obviously besides being 3d on one and hd on the other. Looking at the 3ds mario game that's been announced it looks a lot like galaxy. And earlier someone mentioned animal crossing, and I can't figure out what would distinguish an animal crossing 3ds from animal crossing on the N6. I guess the distinguishing feature besides the visuals (which I don't think will be too dramatic on stuff like animal crossing) will be whatever N6's main draw is?

I can't recall if I said it in this topic or somewhere else (because, hell, the direction of this topic has sprawled in so many directions by now that I'm surprised it hasn't somehow made it to international politics yet), but the talk of Pikmin 3 being a Cafe project instead of Wii got me thinking that it might be exactly the sort of game that would need the processing muscle of a new home console beyond the 3DS' capabilities. Animating hundreds of individual pikmin, especially with the possibility of online play and more than one person operating a captain and pikmin squad, is something that most likely just couldn't be done on the 3DS with any degree of success.

So there's one example, at least.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Unless the architecture for the XBox 361 and the PS4 completely changes in the same way that it changed from last generation to this one, I am not sure the Wii 2 is entirely out of the ballpark for third party developers.

Important note: I don't mean this to say that it will be getting the same games as those two systems, assuming they're both going full generational leaps. Assassin's Creed 4 will not be the same game on those systems as it would be on the Wii 2.

But one of the major reasons Wii games were so difficult to make for third parties is that they had invested so much in to HD development and having a system out there that could not run UE3 did them very little good.

The shift to western development in the last generation meant a lot of development was being done by kids who went to game design school learning Unreal Engine. Now that Nintendo is compatible with what those developers know, making games for it should only be a strain on the publishers' wallets, not the developers' abilities.

Though, to be fair, I still don't believe XBox successor and PS4 are going to be the generational leaps everyone is assuming they are in this thread. We just don't know yet. I can't imagine anyone, manufacturers or third parties, wants to jump in to that pit of money-eating snakes right now.

 

[Angry Fork]

Using Okami as an example. Okami Wii sold very very closely to what it sold on PS2, which was by your own positioning, "a super-duper hardcore gamer's console" which had a far larger install base relative to when each version was released. Okami Wii did pretty fantastic for a bare-bones last-gen port.

Why put quotations around PS2 being a hardcore console, as if it wasn't? And Okami was a bad example, I admit, it's just one of those all around niche games no matter what platform it's on, but I still hold my ground that "core" 3rd party games sold much better on PS2 than they do on Wii.

And all i'm saying is that's Nintendo's fault, not "hardcore" gamers that whine, not Capcom or whatever company making rail games, it's Nintendo's insistence on their fusion into pop culture as a casual low-price console for the family. PS2 didn't have any of that stigma attached to it, and that's why games were so successful on it regardless of the rating or genre and the reason it had so much longevity. Imagine if PS2 came out with their own line of PS2_Sports or whatever, WITHOUT Metal Gear, GTA, Silent Hill, Ratchet, Devil May Cry, etc. all of that stuff and you've basically got a Wii (with the usual Ninty franchises like Mario/Metroid, but even those were thin compared to N64 days).

 

[apana]

I'm pissed that Pikmin 3 is a Wii 2 project but as long as I get Skyward Sword and Dragon Quest X on Wii, I guess I'll deal with it.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

The touch screen sounds like they THQ on board in a very big way.

 

[dvolovets]

Though, to be fair, I still don't believe XBox successor and PS4 are going to be the generational leaps everyone is assuming they are in this thread. We just don't know yet. I can't imagine anyone, manufacturers or third parties, wants to jump in to that pit of money-eating snakes right now.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread. It's not financially viable to have another generational leap when game budgets are so high anyway. They will be unsustainable if PS4/Xbox 720 are technical monsters, so as much as game developers whine about wanting new tech, it would be disastrous if that actually happened any time soon.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Why put quotations around PS2 being a hardcore console, as if it wasn't? And Okami was a bad example, I admit, it's just one of those all around niche games no matter what platform it's on, but I still hold my ground that "core" 3rd party games sold much better on PS2 than they do on Wii.

And all i'm saying is that's Nintendo's fault, not "hardcore" gamers that whine, not Capcom or whatever company making rail games, it's Nintendo's insistence on their fusion into pop culture as a casual low-price console for the family. PS2 didn't have any of that stigma attached to it, and that's why games were so successful on it regardless of the rating or genre and the reason it had so much longevity. Imagine if PS2 came out with their own line of PS2_Sports or whatever, WITHOUT Metal Gear, GTA, Silent Hill, Ratchet, Devil May Cry, etc. all of that stuff and you've basically got a Wii (with the usual Ninty franchises like Mario/Metroid, but even those were thin compared to N64 days).

Hm.

Well, out of curiosity, what's the reasoning for Resident Evil 4 Wii selling a million copies and the follow-up announcement being Umbrella Chronicles?

 

[woahjeez]

I agree with number 1 completely. If number 2 means sometime after holiday of 2012 I disagree. With number 3 I agree as well, not because it will excite "casuals" but because if the feature is interesting enough it will attract me as a gamer. As far as the 3d on the 3DS goes I don't know how its going to work out, its only been out a month. Also the AR features of the 3ds are great but its not being focused on at the moment.

That was a quick edit, but I think 3D without glasses is exciting to casuals. The price tag isn't

 

[Shalashaska161]

I don't disagree but I do think it's worth looking at the ratio of crap that's put out vs. the core stuff. If they want to go for casuals that's fine but at least give core people a fair slice of the pie as well, which they didn't do with the Wii imo.

I always point out PS2 as the example. PS2 didn't have any of that Wii____ shit nor did it have obscenely ridiculous baby-oriented games but it's still arguably the best console ever (and sold the most) because it had soooo many games of so many genres (except maybe FPS). You could attribute most of that to 3rd party offerings but it's Nintendo's own fault they have shitty relations with 3rd parties and that's why their consoles end up floundering when it comes to core games.

And I honestly don't believe it's the gamers fault for the lack of 3rd party stuff on the Wii. You could blame it on Capcom for making their stuff into rail shooters or whatever, but I wouldn't even blame them either because there's stuff like Okami that sold like shit also. Capcom knows this and was just trying to make sure they didn't waste money. It all comes down to what the Wii demographic is, and most people that bought a Wii don't play games like Okami, that's Nintendo's fault. Their entire marketing strategy, hardware, etc. all that stuff is geared towards noobs and people who don't care about games.

So in the end all the people who buy games like Okami stuck with PS3/360 (and Okami couldn't come to these platforms unfortunately because of dev costs) and whenever good 3rd party games came out on Wii they sold like shit because only a small minority of core people play Wii regularly. (And "core" people are already small compared to the casual majority, so imagine how small that number is if you consider the fact that most core people are on PS3/360/PC).

Those casual games have existed on every system ever. Even on the PS2 Sony was making Eyetoy and Singstar games to complement their more core focused stuff. And like I said it's not like they abandoned us core guys either. Just look at this list, there are far more core/bridge titles than there are straight up casual ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Nintendo

And Okami is a dumb example since it's crazy niche. Of course it didn't sell on the Wii, it didn't even sell on the PS2 and it wouldn't of sold on the 360 or PS3 either.

 

[Faxanadu]

So will this be a "put up or shut up" to 3rd party devs and "hardcore" gamers that shit on the Wii because it lacked HD Dudebro graphics?

I'm there day 1.

 

[User 73706]

I'm calling it: new console will basically have double the everything (processing power, etc) the Wii has, and as a result they're calling it the WiiWii, Wii^2 for short.