Support NeoGAF

[Yoboman]

This thing is real? I thought this was just some little rumours, but it seems pretty comprehensive. Are we definitely seeing something at E3?

MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves for letting Nintendo get such a headstart

 

[Plinko]

Aside from the eShop launching late (which I maintain is still an attempt at making a mandatory firmware update around flash cards), is there any evidence for this or are you just kind of making it up?

I took two things into account:

1) The eShop

2) Look at the games released for launch. Nintendo had Steel Diver, a glorified 5 year old tech demo; Nintendogs, basically the same product released 5 years ago but now in 3D, and Pilotwings--a great game but admittedly way short on content. It just seems...odd.

You could argue the DS launch was similar, but they did have Prime: Hunters which at least pushed the system's graphical capabilities. None of Nintendo's first-party offerings seem to do that.

 

[Nab]

Jet Set Radio Future 2.

This.

But I think I'd rather see a new JSRF on more traditional console than whatever the hell this ends up being.

 

[Vinterbird]

This thing is real? I thought this was just some little rumours, but it seems pretty comprehensive. Are we definitely seeing something at E3?

MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves for letting Nintendo get such a headstart

Even without these rumors, you can be fairly certain that Nintendo will announce a new console this year.

 

[AceBandage]

This thing is real? I thought this was just some little rumours, but it seems pretty comprehensive. Are we definitely seeing something at E3?

MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves for letting Nintendo get such a headstart

It seems likely we'll see it at E3, if not sooner, yes.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Plus you get the NGP release end of this year too. So yeah, this year is a nogo, at least from logic.

 

[Woffls]

It's just much more reasonable to expect them to use BluRay.

Yeah I agree, but it's much more fun to entertain the idea that we might be playing on cartridges again Are 10x BD drives affordable yet? I don't want to install games just to compensate for slow read speeds. That's not very Nintendo-like.

Sidetracking: Is there a GAF IRC channel for the E3 conference when, invariably, the forums will be down for 3 days? People still use IRC, right? xD

 

[Vinterbird]

Plus you get the NGP release end of this year too. So yeah, this year is a nogo, at least from logic.

Why would a handheld launch hinder a console launch from another manufacture?

 

[A.KU.MU]

No Phantasy Star V.

I agree.

Spoiler

 

[Dennis]

MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves for letting Nintendo get such a headstart

They must have known that Nintendo would be first out the gate with next gen given how far behind the curve the Wii was.

I refuse to believe otherwise.

But Sony and MS needs to actually make some of all that cash back they have thrown at their 'HD' consoles.

 

[From The Dust]

Jet Set Radio Future 2.

fuck you, buddy. I wish the worse on you

Spoiler

WHYYYYYYYY!!!!!!! ;_;

 

[MikeTyson]

This thing is real? I thought this was just some little rumours, but it seems pretty comprehensive. Are we definitely seeing something at E3?

MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves for letting Nintendo get such a headstart

I don't trust any "sources" from GameInformer.

 

[Vinterbird]

I don't trust any "sources" from GameInformer.

Then trust Edge or any of the other respectable places that have gotten confirmation from other sources. It's a real thing.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Already explained all this, aside from the fact that Nintendo haven't used non-standard technology for things like this since the Wavebird.

It's immature technology, no agreed standard, and all have drawbacks. One is line of sight and can not go through walls, the others are prone to interference from Wi-Fi.

It's not going to happen.

They could use Blutooth 3.0 for streaming, but it hasn't been widely implemented by hardware manufacturers and as a result comes at a high cost. I'm prone to lean toward a dual 2.4GHz and Bluetooth system like IGN suggested.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

fuck you, buddy. I wish the worse on you

Spoiler

WHYYYYYYYY!!!!!!! ;_;

God I loved that game.

 

[Mr_Brit]

They must have known that Nintendo would be first out the gate with next gen given how far behind the curve the Wii was.

I refuse to believe otherwise.

But Sony and MS needs to actually make some of all that cash back they have thrown at their 'HD' consoles.

MS are in the black with the 360, the whole RROD fiasco set them back a bit but they're in pure profit mode from here on out.

Sony on the other hand, I'm not sure if they'll ever turn a profit with the PS3 but it can be argued that the increased sales of blu ray players, blu ray discs and HDTVs may mean it is profitable.

 

[Yoboman]

Nintendo have put themselves in a good position, they could have up to a two year headstart and they'll gain the advantage of looking like the technological leader for a good while even if their leap over PS360 is only relatively impressive.

By the time PS4/Xbox 3 are out they'll have their rocky first year and Wii 2 will be sailing smooth. It could be reminiscent of PS2.

 

[ryan-ts]

Then trust Edge or any of the other respectable places that have gotten confirmation from other sources. It's a real thing.

Could be, probably is. There are plenty of sources that have turned out to be bullshit in the past though. Any details about the system, regardless of what site they came from, should not be treated as truth however. Until Nintendo comes out with the details themselves, get your grain of salt and hold it close.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Someone had a youtube clip much earlier in this thread where video was being streamed 720p to a tablet. Was it an AMD product? Anyway, if anyone has the link just post it I guess.

Video can be buffered, games can't, and lag isn't crucial with non-interactive things. And the technology isn't there yet, or mature enough, to get round it.

People's fascination with this is mind-boggling to be honest. Applications are limited, better served by stand alone devices such as the 3DS, and for all those people complaining about the NGP and 'console games on a handheld' you now want your new Nintendo console to be mainly focused on a 6" screen in your hands? Just because someone may be using the TV when you want to play a game? Madness.

Also connectivity has produced exactly 2 good uses of it. You aren't going to see an explosion of new gameplay possibilities versus the downsides of cost/fragility/size which it adds to the controllers. Not to mention all the other things you throw out such as accessibility, people's familiarity with the remote, motion controls, pointer functionality.

The only application of it which makes sense would be the front face of the remote is the screen, with the buttons on top/protruding. So it's more of an information thing, with some quick access to certain things. But that's a manufacturing nightmare, and you still have the downsides of cost and fragility.

As happens with console 'leaks' t's like people's brains have stopped working, and if Nintendo did something like the IGN mock-up I'd think theirs has as well. Luckily though all these rumours are so contradictory and don't add up to the point I think it's going to be very different.

Let's just hope we get some concrete info soon.

 

[ryan-ts]

Video can be buffered, games can't, and lag isn't crucial with non-interactive things. And the technology isn't there yet, or mature enough, to get round it.

People's fascination with this is mind-boggling to be honest. Applications are limited, better served by stand alone devices such as the 3DS, and for all those people complaining about the NGP and 'console games on a handheld' you now want your new Nintendo console to be mainly focused on a 6" screen in your hands? Just because someone may be using the TV when you want to play a game? Madness.

Also connectivity has produced exactly 2 good uses of it. You aren't going to see an explosion of new gameplay possibilities versus the downsides of cost/fragility/size which it adds to the controllers. Not to mention all the other things you throw out such as accessibility, people's familiarity with the remote, motion controls, pointer functionality.

The only application of it which makes sense would be the front face of the remote is the screen, with the buttons on top/protruding. So it's more of an information thing, with some quick access to certain things. But that's a manufacturing nightmare, and you still have the downsides of cost and fragility.

As happens with console 'leaks' t's like people's brains have stopped working, and if Nintendo did something like the IGN mock-up I'd think theirs has as well. Luckily though all these rumours are so contradictory and don't add up to the point I think it's going to be very different.

Let's just hope we get some concrete info soon.

Here it is

Streams the video flawlessy, there is no lag there and no buffering. Get your controller and play it on the 6' screen.

Now, is it really going to be used by Nintendo? None of us know but I don't see why this tech wouldn't be able to do it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Plus you get the NGP release end of this year too. So yeah, this year is a nogo, at least from logic.

I think if at all possible, they'll launch it in Japan this winter. They will struggle to sell 1 million Wiis there this year.

 

[Chaplain]

Quick question: If MS were to manufacture the 360 specs with todays latest hardware (CPU, GPU, harddrive, etc.), how much could they sell the 360 for? $99?

EDIT:

The reason I ask is because if the Nintendo's new system is a 360 or a little bit above it, wouldn't it be safe to say they could sell this new hardware for under $250?

 

[Refreshment.01]

People's fascination with this is mind-boggling to be honest. Applications are limited, better served by stand alone devices such as the 3DS, and for all those people complaining about the NGP and 'console games on a handheld' you now want your new Nintendo console to be mainly focused on a 6" screen in your hands? Just because someone may be using the TV when you want to play a game? Madness.
Let's just hope we get some concrete info soon.

What if Nintendo might try to do with the packed 6´´ screen is replicate DS control options in TV screens?

You get the same video feed of the image being put trough the TV in the small touch screen. In some games a more direct control method might be more effective than the use of an analog stick or even the Wii´s remote for point, for example.

 

[schuelma]

I think if at all possible, they'll launch it in Japan this winter. They will struggle to sell 1 million Wiis there this year.

Agreed. This is a guess on my part, but a reasonable one- Nintendo is always concerned with their home market and the Wii in Japan has been doing horribly since early 2010. 3rd part support has completely dried up. I think they will get it out in Japan ASAP.

 

[hokahey]

Some thoughts:


- If the console launches this year (this keeps the 5 year cycle, may explain 3DS being a Spring launch) and is just a bit more powerful than current HD systems, its seems Nintendo has established their own console cycle independent of what anyone else is doing. Gone are the days of all consoles playing by relatively the same rules. Wii broke the trend, Wii2 reinforces the break. Nintendo has become an industry in and of themselves.


- If the console is much more powerful than current HD systems, and Nintendo makes a concerted attempt at grabbing the hardcore market, it seems Wii was a temporary diversion to expand the market. They learned with Gamecube that there weren't enough people buying consoles anymore, or Nintendo consoles at least. Wii broadened the market, and now Wii2 takes those new gamers and hands them a more traditional console.


Either way, Nintendo continues to write the rules.

 

[Graphics Horse]

What if Nintendo might try to do with the packed 6´´ screen is replicate DS control options in TV screens?

You get the same video feed of the image being put trough the TV in the small touch screen. In some games a more direct control method might be more effective than the use of an analog stick or even the Wii´s remote for point, for example.

That's what most people are suggesting, but I wonder if Deck'ard's brain has stopped working.

Agreed. This is a guess on my part, but a reasonable one- Nintendo is always concerned with their home market and the Wii in Japan has been doing horribly since early 2010. 3rd part support has completely dried up. I think they will get it out in Japan ASAP.

They also don't have a bunch of unreleased, untranslated JRPGs to fall back on like the rest of the world

 

[Phonomezer]

No.

Phantasy Star V.

And perhaps the rest of Shining Force III.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Here it is

The first thing he talks about is adjustable settings, quality versus bandwidth etc. There will be lag as a result of compression, and probably buffering as well.

None of which matters with video, which is what that technology is for, but it does with games.

 

[seady]

I am not sure going the hardcore route will help Nintendo.

Nintendo simply doesn't have the ability to go head on against Microsoft and Sony in hardcore content. Especially in an era when services (Xbox Live, Playstation Network etc) are more important than the hardware itself.

Those services have been refined over so many years, and Nintendo is infamous for not good at providing services like these. Even if Nintendo can match those services in term of quality, the people are already tie to those services and hard to dig back out.

 

[AceBandage]

Some thoughts:


- If the console launches this year (this keeps the 5 year cycle, may explain 3DS being a Spring launch) and is just a bit more powerful than current HD systems, its seems Nintendo has established their own console cycle independent of what anyone else is doing. Gone are the days of all consoles playing by relatively the same rules. Wii broke the trend, Wii2 reinforces the break. Nintendo has become an industry in and of themselves.


- If the console is much more powerful than current HD systems, and Nintendo makes a concerted attempt at grabbing the hardcore market, it seems Wii was a temporary diversion to expand the market. They learned with Gamecube that there weren't enough people buying consoles anymore, or Nintendo consoles at least. Wii broadened the market, and now Wii2 takes those new gamers and hands them a more traditional console.


Either way, Nintendo continues to write the rules.

SCREW THE RULES! I'VE GOT MONEY!

I am not sure going the hardcore route will help Nintendo.

Nintendo simply doesn't have the ability to go head on against Microsoft and Sony in hardcore content. Especially in an era when services (Xbox Live, Playstation Network etc) are more important than the hardware itself.

Those services have been refined over so many years, and Nintendo is infamous for not good at providing services like these. Even if Nintendo can match those services in term of quality, the people are already tie to those services and hard to dig back out.

Nintendo can't compete for the Dudebro crowd. No way.
The hardcore, though? Oh yeah. Nintendo offers things that the Hardcore crowd wants that no other developer can give them. Nintendo games.

 

[thefro]

They also don't have a bunch of unreleased, untranslated JRPGs to fall back on like the rest of the world

They do have Just Dance 2 and Goldeneye that they're localizing for Japan

 

[DECK'ARD]

What if Nintendo might try to do with the packed 6´´ screen is replicate DS control options in TV screens?

You get the same video feed of the image being put trough the TV in the small touch screen. In some games a more direct control method might be more effective than the use of an analog stick or even the Wii´s remote for point, for example.

You won't get the same video feed as the TV.

And if all you are firing to the controller is the equivalent of the DS bottom screen for item selection that would be an incredibly retarded use of a 6" screen. You have just made your controllers far bigger, far more expensive and far more fragile. You have also thrown out ideal motion controls, pointer functionality, and a form factor people are used to. There are not enough benefits to justify it, and a whole host of downsides.

All for the sake of "Oooh, a big colour screen in my controller". Nah.

None of it adds up at the moment, and I am really looking forward to when we get information that actually does add up.

 

[Refreshment.01]

That's what most people are suggesting, but I wonder if Deck'ard's brain has stopped working.

That´s not what most people are sugesting, so far the mayority thinks the screen would be used to house a HUD or interactive menu. The way im saying is frame by frame the same image of the TV in the tablet for direct input method. Sort of a DS that works in every tv.

You won't get the same video feed as the TV.

And if all you are firing to the controller is the equivalent of the DS bottom screen for item selection that would be an incredibly retarded use of a 6" screen. You have just made your controllers far bigger, far more expensive and far more fragile. You have also thrown out ideal motion controls, pointer functionality, and a form factor people are used to. There are not enough benefits to justify it, and a whole host of downsides.

No Deckárd. Im suggesting 1 screen per system included that can be attached to the controller. Plus the screen will be for local play, not some remote stuff like many people is sugesting.

To sum up the system includes 1 screen that can be attached to controllers and not every control features a touch screen. The touch screen is displaying a video feed of the game.

 

[Perfect Blue]

I took two things into account:

1) The eShop

2) Look at the games released for launch. Nintendo had Steel Diver, a glorified 5 year old tech demo; Nintendogs, basically the same product released 5 years ago but now in 3D, and Pilotwings--a great game but admittedly way short on content. It just seems...odd.

You could argue the DS launch was similar, but they did have Prime: Hunters which at least pushed the system's graphical capabilities. None of Nintendo's first-party offerings seem to do that.

Hunters didn't release until almost two years after the DS launch IIRC. I think you're talking about the demo that was bundled with the DS.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Those people will have meltdowns no matter what the console has inside.

I know I got my popcorn ready.

 

[Woffls]

Nintendo can't compete for the Dudebro crowd. No way.

Is this really not possible? Dudebros are quite fickle, they jumped ship from PS2 to 360 pretty easily. If Nintendo have EA making Fifa/Madden 2013, and Activision working on Call of Duty early, then N6 could have the best versions of those games for next year. I admit it's a long shot because dudebros probably see Nintendo and think it's for children, but I like to think that all they really want is specific titles.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That´s not what most people are sugesting, so far the mayority thinks the screen would be used to house a HUD or interactive menu. The way im saying is frame by frame the same image of the TV in the tablet for direct input method. Sort of a DS that works in every tv.

Yeah, that definitely seems like one way it could be used, but I think flexibility will be the key, like the freedom you have in how to use two DS screens.

 

[farnham]

if nintendo tries to go for the dudebro crowd instead of the casual crowd next gen im going to laugh at their sinking ship

 

[Plinko]

Hunters didn't release until almost two years after the DS launch IIRC. I think you're talking about the demo that was bundled with the DS.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about--forget to put "demo" in the post. It was still a showcase of what the system's graphical capabilities were, though.

 

[Caramello]

So what I want to know is what's going to happen when the new Microsoft and Sony consoles roll around in late 2013/early 2014? Yes, assuming late 2012 is when Nintendo's new console will launch, it'll have had one year alone on the market but if the system isn't a true leap over the PS3/360 and can't stay in touch with the power of their successors, will it be another Wii in terms of third party support?

My main concern is, will it feel like a Dreamcast or an XBOX 360?

 

[Plinko]

Nintendo can't compete for the Dudebro crowd. No way.
The hardcore, though? Oh yeah. Nintendo offers things that the Hardcore crowd wants that no other developer can give them. Nintendo games.

I honestly don't think Nintendo wants the Dudebro crowd.

 

[farnham]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about--forget to put "demo" in the post. It was still a showcase of what the system's graphical capabilities were, though.

i think i played the demo more then i played the actual game lol

 

[DECK'ARD]

That´s not what most people are sugesting, so far the mayority things it would be used to house a HUD or interactive menu. The way im saying is frame by frame the same image of the TV in the tablet for direct input method. Sort of a DS that works in every tv.

No Deckárd. Im suggesting 1 screen per system included that can be attached to the controller. Plus the screen will be for local play, not some remote stuff like many people is sugesting.

You won't get the video feed of the TV on the handheld. Not without significant quality loss, reliability issues, and significant lag, the technology isn't there.

So in effect you are saying Nintendo will bundle an extra small television with each console? Just so someone can play someone else in the same room not by splitscreen, and with an experience far less than the person playing on the TV. That would be ridiculous, as well as needlessly costly.

Nintendo's philosophy is to play together, not for someone to be relegated to a small 6" screen on the other side of the room.

 

[Raide]

Is this really not possible? Dudebros are quite fickle, they jumped ship from PS2 to 360 pretty easily. If Nintendo have EA making Fifa/Madden 2013, and Activision working on Call of Duty early, then N6 could have the best versions of those games for next year. I admit it's a long shot because dudebros probably see Nintendo and think it's for children, but I like to think that all they really want is specific titles.

PS2 to 360 was a major jump. If the Wii 2 specs are only slightly better than 360, my would people jump in at a high price instead of getting the same experience + better online but massively cheaper?

The major benefit is for developers so they can make the same type of game on 360/PS3 and now for Wii2. The only issue is how Nintendo work the controls.

 

[AceBandage]

I honestly don't think Nintendo wants the Dudebro crowd.

Well, that depends.
The dudebro crowd isn't great, but they do mean support and sales.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I honestly don't think Nintendo wants the Dudebro crowd.

The main message from these rumors is that they're trying to steal the Dudebro crowd.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I took two things into account:

1) The eShop

2) Look at the games released for launch. Nintendo had Steel Diver, a glorified 5 year old tech demo; Nintendogs, basically the same product released 5 years ago but now in 3D, and Pilotwings--a great game but admittedly way short on content. It just seems...odd.

You could argue the DS launch was similar, but they did have Prime: Hunters which at least pushed the system's graphical capabilities. None of Nintendo's first-party offerings seem to do that.

The games were ready, at very least Ocarina was, but held back to give third parties the advantage.

And Prime Hunters was not a launch game. If you're in a non-American region, I can't say for sure without looking it up, but the DS came with a demo (titled "First Hunt") for it in America. The full game did not release until a year and a half later in March of 2006 (the DS was November of 2004).

So now thinking about it, I'm sure it was not a launch game for any region, except for maybe with the DS Lite.

Launch games in general are light on content. We've moved past the time where R&D and game development go on side-by-side. This doesn't indicate hardware is rushed, but it does say that software can't wait until it's perfect before they release it.

Considering the 3DS began production in October of last year for an expected November release and was held off to ensure larger stock numbers, I am going to guess it was not rushed for this year.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Yeah, that definitely seems like one way it could be used, but I think flexibility will be the key, like the freedom you have in how to use two DS screens.

Can you explain a little further im not understanding well speialy the bold part.

Other added benefit of having the video feed in the touch screen for control is, that in games were it makes sense to use it, the control mechanics are more stream lined than having to learn what each control key those. I.E. like in Zelda DS when you touch a box links auto runs to it and picks it up.

You won't get the video feed of the TV on the handheld. Not without significant quality loss, reliability issues, and significant lag, the technology isn't there.

So in effect you are saying Nintendo will bundle an extra small television with each console? Just so someone can play someone else in the same room not by splitscreen, and with an experience far less than the person playing on the TV. That would be ridiculous, as well as needlessly costly.

Nintendo's philosophy is to play together, not for someone to be relegated to a small 6" screen on the other side of the room.

No Deck´ard that´s not what im sugesting. Ill go by parts:
1)There won´t be any quality lost with a WiFI N connection transmitting a small resolution image, but lattency could be an issue.
2)You are using both screens yourself for example. Same rendered frames that reach the TV reach the touch screen at a smaller resolution.
3)The benefit would be direct touch control, for the games this method makes sense, and it works on every tv.
4)The user could attach the screen to a standar controller (buttons, stick, etc) to suplement or enhance the control scheme.

Hope this makes it more clear

You can have a like-for-like TV reference, but you could also choose to use it for maps, virtual keyboard, inventory screens, gesture control pad, view panning, whatever you want basically.

Thanks for explaining.

I agree Nintendo could use it like that. But the things is, it won´t be as new per se. Cause its a similar thing to what they have done with the failed hanheld connectivity.

But definitly they could have this in some games and what im suggesting in others.

 

[midonnay]

Already explained all this, aside from the fact that Nintendo haven't used non-standard technology for things like this since the Wavebird.

It's immature technology, no agreed standard, and all have drawbacks. One is line of sight and can not go through walls, the others are prone to interference from Wi-Fi.

It's not going to happen.

are you guys talking about wireless at 60ghz?

don't write it off too quickly

next gen wireless chips will be able to support multiple bands at once.

eg: wireless at 2.4ghz, 5 ghz and 60ghz which will mitigate line of sight issues

so multi-gbps within the living room and up to 1gbps around the house.

 

[IonicSnake]

Is this really not possible? Dudebros are quite fickle, they jumped ship from PS2 to 360 pretty easily. If Nintendo have EA making Fifa/Madden 2013, and Activision working on Call of Duty early, then N6 could have the best versions of those games for next year. I admit it's a long shot because dudebros probably see Nintendo and think it's for children, but I like to think that all they really want is specific titles.

I think it's a little different now. I don't think people that have invested so much time in their Live/PSN account will jump ship that easy.

Speaking for myself, if I buy Wii2 it will be a secondary console next to the PS4, unless Sony shuts down PSN and make a new online service for PS4 where everyone have to register again.