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[apana]

The main message from these rumors is that they're trying to steal the Dudebro crowd.

They want decent software support from third parties so that they can sustain their platform when they themselves aren't releasing games. They want some of the "dudebro" crowd but I wouldn't say they are making a huge play for them.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Can you explain a little further im not understanding well speialy the bold part.

Other added benefit of having the video feed in the touch screen for control is, that in games were it makes sense to use it, the control mechanics are more strem lined than having to learn what each control key those. I.E. like in Zelda DS when you touch a box links auto runs to it and pick it up.

You can have a like-for-like TV reference, but you could also choose to use it for maps, virtual keyboard, inventory screens, gesture control pad, view panning, whatever you want basically.

 

[apana]

On the talk about graphics, I think it's fine to speculate that it may be 360 level but it gets annoying when people come in here and are all like "man this is so lame that they are just matching 100 year old tech, I wont buy it". Just my two cents.

 

[farnham]

I think it's a little different now. I don't think people that have invested so much time in their Live/PSN account will jump ship that easy.

Speaking for myself, if I buy Wii2 it will be a secondary console next to the PS4, unless Sony shuts down PSN and make a new online service for PS4 where everyone have to register again.

i have "invested" a tad in my live account because i get achievements for 360 games no matter what (and i have a good amount of 360 games)


and i dont care about them at all.

 

[gofreak]

I wonder if we'll see some augmented reality...of your TV.

Like, hold the tablet up and view your TV through it. Changing what's on the TV.

Scan for things.

Or gyro aiming?

Or show different things to different controllers, on the TV.

I dunno, gimmicky maybe, but it's something they might be thinking of. However, the rumours don't say there's a back-facing camera so maybe this wouldn't be possible. The front facing camera could tell if you're line of sight is actually through the tablet or not, maybe.

 

[Screenboy]

All Nintendo need to do is convince the devs to release COD/GTA/etc and then mirror the online infrastructure while they concentrate on their own games Mario/Zelda/Metroid HD. Could be a recipe for massive success, the only thing that sounds dodgy is a 6" screen in the controller making them expensive is probably not a good move.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I wonder if we'll see some augmented reality...of your TV.

Like, hold the tablet up and view your TV through it. Changing what's on the TV.

Haha, I was going to suggest this but it sounded too weird in my head. If the controller has accurate positional sensing, as well as a face tracking camera, it could be able to line up the virtual TV pretty well.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's what most people are suggesting, but I wonder if Deck'ard's brain has stopped working.

No my brain is working fine thanks. Just people aren't seeing the massive downsides a screen in a controller has, very fundamental downsides. And however you apply it you don't get round those downsides of cost/fragility and battery life. All very important things.

So, the applications are:

1) Magically reproduce the TV picture, lag free, interference free, and at a decent quality on a 6" screen in your hands. So as to be able to interact with it directly. Not going to happen. And you could already do it with the Wii and it's pointer, while still enjoying the benefits of a console versus a handheld ie. the TV screen itself.

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS, for quick item selection, maps, HUD stuff etc. Which is not ideal when your primary focus should be the TV screen. Additional connectivity applications have already been explored, and produced exactly 2 good uses of it. Bit of a gamble to then try and make it a key feature of your new console.

3) The manufacturing near impossibility of a screen behind the buttons of a normal remote, labelling them and possibiliy having touch functions in some area as well. Would be very nice, but highly unlikely.

4) A pure information screen, like the VMU. Obvious uses, and complementary to things like the Wii's speaker.

The only realistic one of these is 4.

Option 2 would be a very wasteful use if it's a 6" screen. And if it is a 6" screen you've just made your controllers far bigger, more expensive, far more fragile, and thrown just about every asset of the remote's design out the window.

If I'm missing any other uses of this screen which are actually feasible and beneficial enough to cancel out the downsides, please let me know.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I wonder if we'll see some augmented reality...of your TV.

Like, hold the tablet up and view your TV through it. Changing what's on the TV.

Scan for things.

Or gyro aiming?

Or show different things to different controllers, on the TV.

I dunno, gimmicky maybe, but it's something they might be thinking of. However, the rumours don't say there's a back-facing camera so maybe this wouldn't be possible. The front facing camera could tell if you're line of sight is actually through the tablet or not, maybe.

Check the above posts for what we are disscussing. The uses you sugest make more sense if both tablet and TV are getting the same video feed at the same time. Using the mounted camera to look at your TV an manipulate things is not as pratical.

 

[AceBandage]

I really don't think 6 inch resistive touch screens are all that expensive these days.

 

[Azelover]

They must have known that Nintendo would be first out the gate with next gen given how far behind the curve the Wii was.

I refuse to believe otherwise.

But Sony and MS needs to actually make some of all that cash back they have thrown at their 'HD' consoles.

How is the Wii the one behind the curve? Just because of technical specs? How about the controller and the actual gaming experience. For me the pointer controls are still unmatched.

 

[apana]

You can also use the touch screen for new types of tactile feedback or as a vitality sensor of some kind.

No my brain is working fine thanks. Just people aren't seeing the massive downsides a screen in a controller has, very fundamental downsides. And however you apply it you don't get round those downsides of cost/fragility and battery life. All very important things.

So, the applications are:

1) Magically reproduce the TV picture, lag free, interference free, and at a decent quality on a 6" screen in your hands. So as to be able to interact with it directly. Not going to happen. And you could already do it with the Wii and it's pointer, while still enjoying the benefits of a console versus a handheld ie. the TV screen itself.

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS, for quick item selection, maps, HUD stuff etc. Which is not ideal when your primary focus should be the TV screen. Additional connectivity applications have already been explored, and produced exactly 2 good uses of it. Bit of a gamble to then try and make it a key feature of your new console.

3) The manufacturing near impossibility of a screen behind the buttons of a normal remote, labelling them and possibiliy having touch functions in some area as well. Would be very nice, but highly unlikely.

4) A pure information screen, like the VMU. Obvious uses, and complementary to things like the Wii's speaker.

The only realistic one of these is 4.

Option 2 would be a very wasteful use if it's a 6" screen. And if it is a 6" screen you've just made your controllers far bigger, more expensive, far more fragile, and thrown just about every asset of the remote's design out the window.

If I'm missing any other uses of this screen which are actually feasible and beneficial enough to cancel out the downsides, please let me know.

Yeah touchscreen to me is not cool if it's just an information screen.

 

[Starchasing]

They want decent software support from third parties so that they can sustain their platform when they themselves aren't releasing games. They want some of the "dudebro" crowd but I wouldn't say they are making a huge play for them.

I think what dudebro wants is competition... if nintendo provides a service that allows competition dudebros will not mid switching agan

 

[John Harker]

- If te console is much more powerful than current HD systems, and Nintendo makes a concerted attempt at grabbing the hardcore market, it seems Wii was a temporary diversion to expand the market. They learned with Gamecube that there weren't enough people buying consoles anymore, or Nintendo consoles at least. Wii broadened the market, and now Wii2 takes those new gamers and hands them a more traditional console.


Either way, Nintendo continues to write the rules.

Temporary diversion? C'mon. Have you seen the profits they made on Wii/DS?
That's not a diversion. That's called strategy.

Now, however, Nintendo's hand was forced. Let's be honest, they took a real hard look at the market and saw that the expanded audience they helped to cultivate over the years have more or less migrated down the funnel. Their blue ocean strategy got millions of more hands to play games but this market has shifted to alternative devices that satisfy their 'casual gaming commitment' with lower barrier to entries and significantly cheaper price points on things like iOS and Facebook. Nintendo realized they are not likely to gain these people back with significantly more expensive hardware and game titles, so had to readjust their approach out the gate to capture the traditional audience again. If they failed to do that upfront, attract the 20% of the market that drives 80% of revenue, then they'd be in significant trouble gaining traction since that audience would just wait for the next Xbox.

So they have to make an attempt to get that core audience back on their side and hope their new tech can be flashy/innovative enough to eventually draw back in the expanded audience that's trickling away once costs come down. It's a double-edged sword and it's ironic, but this all seems incredibly market-driven at this point. What else could they have done?

 

[farnham]

dudebros wont buy nintendo systems

they will see mario and pikachu and leave in disgust

 

[Graphics Horse]

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS, for quick item selection, maps, HUD stuff etc. Which is not ideal when your primary focus should be the TV screen. Additional connectivity applications have already been explored, and produced exactly 2 good uses of it. Bit of a gamble

Eh, that involved arranging people to bring 4 handhelds and cables seperately to an unpopular console, it was never going to catch on.

All I'm saying is they might want to take a gamble with their controller again, instead of bringing out a new PS3+Move combo.

 

[gofreak]

Haha, I was going to suggest this but it sounded too weird in my head. If the controller has accurate positional sensing, as well as a face tracking camera, it could be able to line up the virtual TV pretty well.

Yeah, you'd want good internal sensors, and also a good res camera and a reasonable res screen. And low controller->machine->controller latency for the processing.

But could be interesting for some things.

And if you can determine when line of sight is actually through the tablet or not, perhaps via a front camera, you wouldn't actually have to augment on the controller's screen. You could augment just straight onto the TV, which would simplify things a lot. i.e. when it knows you're looking through the tablet, it changes what's displayed on the TV. This would work for only a single player though.

edit - could also be cool from the POV of being able to 'touch' to interact with things on the TV through the tablet. If it worked. You'd really want a nice camera there so it looked decent though.

 

[apana]

If you look at it from the point of technology they have already explored touch screen, motion controls, and 3D. The only thing left is vitality sensor and haptic feedback.

 

[Refreshment.01]

So, the applications are:

1) Magically reproduce the TV picture, lag free, interference free, and at a decent quality on a 6" screen in your hands. So as to be able to interact with it directly. Not going to happen. And you could already do it with the Wii and it's pointer, while still enjoying the benefits of a console versus a handheld ie. the TV screen itself.

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS, for quick item selection, maps, HUD stuff etc. Which is not ideal when your primary focus should be the TV screen. Additional connectivity applications have already been explored, and produced exactly 2 good uses of it. Bit of a gamble to then try and make it a key feature of your new console.

3) The manufacturing near impossibility of a screen behind the buttons of a normal remote, labelling them and possibiliy having touch functions in some area as well. Would be very nice, but highly unlikely.

4) A pure information screen, like the VMU. Obvious uses, and complementary to things like the Wii's speaker.

The only realistic one of these is 4.

Thanks for going in depth with your arguments Deck´ard.

In defence of my arguments. Remember we are going by rumors. If we accept for a fact that theres a 6´´ screen as an important part of the console i can´t think of a more novel use than the one im sugesting.

Again, i´ll repeat. The screen would be included one per console and can be attached to a controler. Not one in each controller. Regarding thses cases:

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS
4) A pure information screen, like the VMU. Obvious uses, and complementary to things like the Wii's speaker.

Used just like that wouldn´t be something new. Then what other potential use this screen could have?

 

[Neiteio]

They want decent software support from third parties so that they can sustain their platform when they themselves aren't releasing games. They want some of the "dudebro" crowd but I wouldn't say they are making a huge play for them.

Yeah, pretty much this. Look at the Wii: Nintendo's in a transition period allocating resources to 3DS and Cafe and so the Wii's release forecast is barren save Wii Play: Motion, Skyward Sword and Kirby (and NA Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Rhythm Heaven and Fatal Frame 2r, right Ninty?). Meanwhile, nothing is happening on Wii. All the major third-party projects are on the higher-end systems. If Cafe can offer power comparable to what third-parties have been working in, a.k.a. at least native HD like all modern TVs, then those same third-parties can start investing in Ninty's machine, and in dry spells like this Cafe owners will get games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and L.A. Noire rather than nothing at all.

On another note, games-wise, I have a good feeling Pikmin 3 will jump ship from Wii to Cafe. We never saw it as a Wii title, so it may as well go to a system that can afford it new control/interface opportunities, and more horsepower for more Pikmin, critters and intricate environmental detail, all of which will be sharply defined in HD. EAD Group 4 is working on Pikmin 3, and they last made NSMB Wii. They've had enough time to show us something at E3 2011...

I'm curious about Skyward Sword, though. Frankly, I feel done with Wii and would rather they just put it on Cafe, and really spend the next year and a half revamping the complexity of the world and audiovisual presentation (and while they're at it, add dungeons, sidequests -- make this truly the best 3D Zelda yet). The fact we don't have a release date for the game makes this seem vaguely possible. But yeah, it's more likely SS will either remain a Wii title, or somehow get a double release (either simultaneously, or one and then the other), with the Cafe version simply being new control/interface options and a Dolphin-like upgrade to HD, with crisper, fuller, more colorful graphics and sound.

Also, regarding the aforementioned remake of Fatal Frame 2 -- is that out in Japan yet? What's its current status? When was the last we heard of it? Because there's a game that would look spectacular as a true, full-fledged HD remake on Cafe. It's widely agreed to be one of the scariest games ever made. Give the game intuitive pointer controls; use the Cafe controller to simulate the camera (as the controller has a built-in 6-inch screen for the viewfinder and a front-facing camera itself); and render all the screaming, tormented souls in horrifying HD. Heck, maybe they will even work the Vitality Sensor tech into the new system and that can play a role in the game as well. Imagine the game prompting you to periodically take your pulse, so the game can see if you're in panic mode or feeling suspenseful, and adjust its scares accordingly...

 

[Shapingo]

I wonder what medium it will use; DVD9's or Bluray?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I really hope Nintendo doesn't fall into the same trap Sony did.
Release a cutting edge, top of the line, uber expensive console hoping it rides in on the strong wind from the previous console.

Because I just refuse to pay anything more than 300 dollars for a video game console. I can get a decent enough computer for that price, and have so many more options.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

dudebros wont buy nintendo systems

they will see mario and pikachu and leave in disgust

They bought the N64. Also i wouldn't group Mario and Pikachu together. That is disrespectful. Sorry Pokelovers

 

[AceBandage]

I wonder what medium it will use; DVD9's or Bluray?

BluRay seems likely.
Probably through Panasonic or Sharp.

I really hope Nintendo doesn't fall into the same trap Sony did.
Release a cutting edge, top of the line, uber expensive console hoping it rides in on the strong wind from the previous console.

Because I just refuse to pay anything more than 300 dollars for a video game console. I can get a decent enough computer for that price, and have so many more options.

They won't. It'll be maybe half a gen above the 360/PS3 and not completely cutting edge.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I really hope Nintendo doesn't fall into the same trap Sony did.
Release a cutting edge, top of the line, uber expensive console hoping it rides in on the strong wind from the previous console.

Because I just refuse to pay anything more than 300 dollars for a video game console. I can get a decent enough computer for that price, and have so many more options.

You can get a decent computer for 300 dollars?!

 

[gofreak]

Imagine a nintendogs game, where you could take the dog out of the TV by 'viewing' through the tablet.

With a AR card on the floor and knowledge of the TV, you could see the dog hop out of the TV onto your living room through the tablet.

This is a more advanced use case, but in theory it could work. Just using nintendogs as an example, but using AR all kinds of funky TV->real-world augmentation could be done, perhaps, if the tech is up to it. I'd not be surprised to see them explore AR with this a lot, the processing on the console would allow for a lot more than can be done on their handheld, and they seem enamoured with the idea at the moment. The controller with a screen becomes a viewport to allow this with their home system.

*hopes for a quality back-facing camera*

 

[Boney]

They bought the N64. Also i wouldn't group Mario and Pikachu together. That is disrespectful. Sorry Pokelovers

oh snap!

 

[farnham]

They bought the N64. Also i wouldn't group Mario and Pikachu together. That is disrespectful. Sorry Pokelovers

yeah look how much n64 and gc sold in comparison to the wii


also i take that as an offense sir

pokemon is awesomeness

 

[Xristot]

This has probably been mentioned but didn't Ono say that SSFIV 3D would connect to an unknown console and that we would find out more at e3? I suppose with the tablet this could make sense.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=426640

 

[midonnay]

I wonder what medium it will use; DVD9's or Bluray?

do they have to pay a license fee if they don't enable movie playback?

 

[farnham]

This has probably been mentioned but didn't Ono say that SSFIV 3D would connect to an unknown console and that we would find out more at e3? I suppose with the tablet this could make sense.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=426640

hope its the wii

 

[DECK'ARD]

Eh, that involved arranging people to bring 4 handhelds and cables seperately to an unpopular console, it was never going to catch on.

All I'm saying is they might want to take a gamble with their controller again, instead of bringing out a new PS3+Move combo.

Connectivity doesn't open up that many possibilities, and you are by definition taking people's attention away from the TV. Which is the draw of a console. People will prefer to look at a TV than a 6" screen in your hands, even more so when that console has just made the leap to HD to make things look better. It would be a completely nonsensical approach for Nintendo.

If you want connectivity features for the few games that will make use of it, just wirelessly link it to the 3DS. It would do everything people are asking this new controller to do, and with download play it's even designed to be able to do it.

Making your controllers look like handhelds, with the problems of cost, fragility, battery life and size if it's a 6" screen, would be utterly bizarre for Nintendo for the limited benefits you would gain. Killing all the appeal of the Wii and it's remote in the process.

 

[[Nintex]]

hope its the wii

The Wii is dead you of all people should know that.

 

[From The Dust]

hope its the wii

it will have to be the N6

 

[gofreak]

This has probably been mentioned but didn't Ono say that SSFIV 3D would connect to an unknown console and that we would find out more at e3? I suppose with the tablet this could make sense.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=426640

He said 'a handheld street fighter', he was asked if a handheld SF ever would connect to a console. He wasn't (necessarily) talking about the 3DS version specifically...I think a PS3/NGP version of AE is perhaps more immediately on the cards if Wii 2 is 2012. We'll see at E3 I guess.

 

[robor]

a friend made this

Cool concept but I agree with DECK'ARD. I'm having trouble comprehending WHY there is a need to split the software experience into two discreet hardware components. The only solution I can think of that fits the above concept is the Amazon Kindle. I remember Iwata was talking about his fascination with that device 1.5 years back.

 

[farnham]

The Wii is dead you of all people should know that.

it still is ahead of ps2 in its lifetime and sells better then what gc sold in its lifetime

its not dead

it will have to be the N6

i hope not

but its capcom

they wont support the wii no matter how hight he market share is

 

[Azelover]

Imagine a nintendogs game, where you could take the dog out of the TV by 'viewing' through the tablet.

With a AR card on the floor and knowledge of the TV, you could see the dog hop out of the TV onto your living room through the tablet.

This is a more advanced use case, but in theory it could work. Just using nintendogs as an example, but using AR all kinds of funky TV->real-world augmentation could be done, perhaps, if the tech is up to it. I'd not be surprised to see them explore AR with this a lot, the processing on the console would allow for a lot more than can be done on their handheld, and they seem enamoured with the idea at the moment. The controller with a screen becomes a viewport to allow this with their home system.

*hopes for a quality back-facing camera*

The console will either not output graphics better than Gamecube level, or it will need a lot of power to render all of those screens.

 

[Plinko]

If they don't use Blu-ray I'm not going to be happy. It's cheap enough to use and doubles as a movie player.

 

[gofreak]

The console will either not output graphics better than Gamecube level, or it will need a lot of power to render all of those screens.

Assuming something 360-powered at a minimum, that'd be fine for the style of graphics Nintendo goes with most of the time, and far better than Gamecube-level graphics. The image processing for the AR would probably be the bigger hog than the extra rendering.

 

[Xristot]

He said 'a handheld street fighter', he was asked if a handheld SF ever would connect to a console. He wasn't (necessarily) talking about the 3DS version specifically...I think a PS3/NGP version of AE is perhaps more immediately on the cards if Wii 2 is 2012. We'll see at E3 I guess.

Oh, i see. I went back and read it again. You are right. It could be either really, but it would suggest something more immediate. Just another thing to expect at e3.

 

[Fewr]

Project Hot Cafe.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Thanks for going in depth with your arguments Deck´ard.

In defence of my arguments. Remember we are going by rumors. If we accept for a fact that theres a 6´´ screen as an important part of the console i can´t think of a more novel use than the one im sugesting.

Again, i´ll repeat. The screen would be included one per console and can be attached to a controler. Not one in each controller. Regarding thses cases:

2) Use the screen as just the bottom half of a DS
4) A pure information screen, like the VMU. Obvious uses, and complementary to things like the Wii's speaker.

Used just like that wouldn´t be something new. Then what other potential use this screen could have?

Bundling in effect an extra tiny television with each console with limited uses just doesn't sound like Nintendo to me. It will not be able to be used as a wireless substitute television, there's too many practical problems with that regarding gaming. Nintendo are incredibly fussy about things like control, they won't go with anything that has lag.

It's also an extra expense, and takes costs away from the console itself. They've been encouraging people to play together around a television, this is what separates a console from a handheld.

Working out what exact use this screen would have to justify its inclusion is the big sticking point of all these rumours, it just doesn't add up versus all the downsides.

My theory would be, if it's in there, that this is Chinese whispers gone mad.

DS style selection of things would have some benefits, just not enough to go mad with a 6" screen. Small touchscreen in the remote, like a touch-sensitive VMU? Sure. Not too costly, not too fragile, and you'd retain the form factor.

If bio-feedback is involved, then even a small information screen like the VMU makes sense. You'd display the relevant information directly to the person concerned, heartrate, whatever. It would personalise the remote, an extension of what they did with the Wii.

If bio-feedback is involved, then it's likely the back was touch-sensitive which might be where all this 6" talk is coming back.

Going wilder on speculation, if they go to town on bio-feedback it might have a thumbprint reader as well. So the screen would display the current user of the remote, and in doing so personalise the experience of the game, the Home screen of the Wii 2, everything. That would give you automatic parental controls as well, and we know how much Nintendo love them

 

[Boney]

is this opposite day?

wii is as dead as 2005 GC.

I'm scared to see how it'll look next year

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You can get a decent computer for 300 dollars?!

The laptop I'm on right now was 250 on black friday and can run games made up until around 2006ish. It also runs all of Popcap's games just fine.

It's also a fine Internet surfing machine


I consider that a "decent" computer.

 

[farnham]

is this opposite day?

wii is as dead as 2005 GC.

I'm scared to see how it'll look next year

gc sold 2.4million in december 2004 and 290 k in march 2005 ?

 

[robor]

If this 6" display panel/table thing does indeed exist, I'm leaning more towards the idea that it will have little to do with playing games but rather, as an extension tool for acquiring things like movies, game software, music, books (???) and what ever else.

Seeing as the N6 will be the first Nintendo console to play movies and all.

 

[Plinko]

If this 6" display panel/table thing does indeed exist, I'm leaning more towards the idea that it will have little to do with playing games but rather, as an extension tool for acquiring things like movies, game software, music, books (???) and what ever else.

Seeing as the N6 will be the first Nintendo console to play movies and all.

I can't imagine Nintendo implements something in their controller and has its main function be something other than gaming. That goes completely against everything they've ever done in the gaming industry.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Posting this again for the new page, because the only concrete thing we know is that Nintendo were faffing around with the vitality sensor and there's applications of that where a screen would apply:

If bio-feedback is involved, then even a small information screen like the VMU makes sense. You'd display the relevant information directly to the person concerned, heartrate, whatever. It would personalise the remote, an extension of what they did with the Wii.

Also if bio-feedback is involved, then it's likely the back was touch-sensitive which might be where all this 6" talk is coming back.

Going wilder on speculation, if they go to town on bio-feedback it might have a thumbprint reader as well. So the screen would display the current user of the remote, and in doing so personalise the experience of the game, the Home screen of the Wii 2, everything. That would give you automatic parental controls as well, and we know how much Nintendo love them

 

[Boney]

gc sold 2.4million in december 2004 and 290 k in march 2005 ?

wii is seasonal. Let's see how it sells throughout the year

regardless of sales, there's like 4 games coming out, with a a few more being announced at E3.