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[Great Rumbler]

chubigans bringing in the real talk.

More importantly, I can't believe it's been 15 years since the first Pokemon game and there still hasn't been a proper Pokemon RPG on home consoles.

 

[alf717]

If GTA V launches with the Wii successor. I will be there day one. I don't care how but I will find the cash to pay it all off. I was hoping to see GTA on GC since they did the double box way back. III and Vice could have fit on the GC but SA probably wouldn't have made it on the GC unless it was multiple discs.

 

[Doorman]

This is the problem I have with that idea. I, along with many others, love Nintendo consoles for their games and I don't want a console launch with a bunch of 3rd party games that are also on other consoles. Maybe they could sway them with how they market the launch, but I can't see Nintendo giving up the opportunity to big launch day sales to another third party, let alone entrust third parties to deliver a solid launch lineup. There's no guarantee they'll deliver.

Well my issue isn't even so much about Nintendo losing a chance to cash in with software on their own launch (especially when conventional wisdom says they'll be pricing the hardware at a profit anyway, so they won't even need software to recoup losses there), more the concern that Nintendo will be dumping some new gaming-tech into a company's hands and saying "here, do something cool with this." Everybody scratched their heads when word first came down about a system with two screens and a touch interface, or a pointer-wand that also detects motion in a 3-D space, and things only clicked once Nintendo took a little time and started building their markets.

It was brought up in the "Can Nintendo patch things up with 3rd parties" thread that Wii never received a strong development base on traditional games because there was never an early flow of those titles to prove to them that a profitable audience was there for it. If Nintendo really wants high quality third party software, particularly of the "mature" type, they might have to release a couple of games and personally build that target market, in conjunction with these supposed third party deals.

Admit it, you'd be curious about the prospect of a AAA major-polish "mature" game coming straight from internal Nintendo, and then the additional enhanced ports like GTA5 would serve to cement that purchase decision. If Nintendo wants that style of third-party game, they're going to have to think like those third parties, at least to some extent.

 

[Christine]

chubigans bringing in the real talk.

DS was never capable of Pikmans.

Wii, on the other hand... well, fuck. I might have to break down and import NPC Pikmin 2 just to confirm beyond doubt that I'm a battered spouse.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Pikmin

it's coming it has to be, i won't even complain if it ends up being a wii game, i just want it.

 

[NewFresh]

More importantly, I can't believe it's been 15 years since the first Pokemon game and there still hasn't been a proper Pokemon RPG on home consoles.

They know where it sells. Besides did you play PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure

 

[Ridleyscott]

It hasn't mattered for the past few years because Nintendo had the market cornered on motion controls and steady releases of casual-friendly titles. Now? Not so much. Both Sony and Microsoft and making inroads against them in both those categories and are more likely to receive heavier third-party support than Nintendo and the Wii.

Was NSMB and MArio Kart "casual" games? What about DK country, or LOZ:TP, etc.? Sony and MS are barely making a dent in motion controls because they don't know how to sell those products.

I do look at sales numbers
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2..._For_MS_Q3.php

and that is why I ask where you get 80% of sales types of numbers

That is only $165 million profit for the entire entertainment division, including Zune and PCgames.

I didn't say 80% of sales, but that is probably close. I said 80% of the profits. Nintendo makes money, Sony and Xbox have to hide their losses with other divisions.

 

[M74]

Then you haven't been paying attention to Nintendo's actions with big-name DS/3DS games have you?

Caution, skipper. We haven't actually seen those, and we may not if things keep the way they are at this moment.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Nice!

*Hi five.

c'mon guys, get a womb!

.
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....
......

i think the surprise feature has something to do with the camera. maybe facial expression recognition. the games could react to if you seem happy or sad, or mad.

 

[JaseMath]

No, what I was trying to say was that I think there's a possibility that it's no meant to be hooked up to a TV.

The system could come in two sub-systems: The tablet which acts as the display and as controller (again: 2 analog sticks, 2 triggers, gyroscope, vitality sensor, two cams and the 6" 720p multitouch probably with advanced haptic feedback) and the docking station which houses the AMD Fusion SOC, BR-drive, etc. The tablet would send all the control data to the docking station which renders the frame and send the frame back to the tablet, just like a local OnLive-service.

Since the video feed has to be decoded, there's a need for some kind of processor built into the tablet. That very processor (eg. an ARM9) could be used to run all sorts of non-gaming apps even when you're not in your streaming area.

Interesting, but this just won't happen. Not only would Nintendo segment a market they've just gained back control of, but they already have a portable device in the 3DS... not to mention that it would undermine the whole "we" concept of the Wii brand.

 

[KevinCow]

Duly noted on all of that...although I wouldn't stop at Rockstar. I'd be making that exact same pitch to any third party even willing to listen and had some sort of high-profile game on the way. GTA is a big name, yes, but one name is not going to be nearly enough to sell Cafe to a group of people that have largely dismissed Nintendo for over a decade, especially a group that knows that these games will also be coming to a system that they already own. If GTA is the only third party pull that they can manage, then even if it does do well I don't think it helps Nintendo break out of that stigma. They've done that same thing with Gamecube and Wii both on various occasions, the "hey look, here's a really cool Mature game on our console!" People still sought the alternatives.

A lot of this so-called mature or hardcore gamer population does rely on image and marketing, so Nintendo's going to need both a brand for its system that doesn't push people away, and it's going to need a big library from the get-go that screams "take us seriously!" I'm intrigued by the poster that suggested Nintendo not produce their own core game for the system's launch, but at the same time isn't the prospect of Nintendo's own high-quality products supposed to be one of the major selling points of the console over its competition? Would Nintendo place that much faith in third parties to lead the way with 'hardcore' applications of whatever their Shaymalan-twist technology is?

For sure. Isn't Bioshock Infinite coming around that time? That's another one they should be trying to get. I guess we don't really know a whole lot that's coming that far away, though. Also Darksiders 2, which isn't exactly a major release but would make me happy.

And they might even try to catch up on the existing PS360 games, too. There's a good 7 years of HD games Nintendo's missed out on, many of which have sequels. I imagine there could be a market for collections. How about seeing if 2k will toss Bioshock 1 and 2 on a disc? See if Ubisoft could do Assassin's Creed 1, 2, and Brotherhood? Maybe Bethesda could do Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The controller screen would obviously be your Pip-boy.

 

[Truth101]

Caution, skipper. We haven't actually seen those, and we may not if things keep the way they are at this moment.

I'm just talking about Super Street Fighter IV 3D at the moment, but I don't doubt we will see more large 3rd party games hitting the 3DS getting that treatment.

Spoiler

Monster Hunter 3DS and Dragon Quest XI

 

[Great Rumbler]

Was NSMB and MArio Kart "casual" games? What about DK country, or LOZ:TP, etc.? Sony and MS are barely making a dent in motion controls because they don't know how to sell those products.

You mean to tell me that new entries in long-standing, popular series sell well? I am shocked by this startling revelation!

 

[Perfect Blue]

it's coming it has to be, i won't even complain if it ends up being a wii game, i just want it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo randomly announces it next week.

 

[wonderfuldays]

If it can really stream game-play screen to the 6" tab/controller in like 20 ft without significant delay. Then it will be huge.

 

[which1spink]

So streaming like over the internet so you can be anywhere anytime? Or streaming games like you have to be within a certain range of the base unit? because the answer to this will dramatically affect its portability as a gaming tablet.

Gaming would only be possibly in a certain range around the docking station. Otherwise there would be no reason for the 3DS to exist

Also - technically speaking - you'd need one wicked-fast portable internet to stream HD content and even then their would be a certain lag between the user input and the videostream.

 

[Christine]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo randomly announces it next week.

Don't toy with my feelings that way.

 

[Ridleyscott]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because of how underpowered the system is.

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than games most people like to play. Third parties are stubborn and are more interested in pushing their video-game fantasies on the consumer.

I used a bit of hyperbole earlier... it isn't that Nintendo doesn't care, it is just that they have to choose the path that is best for them (i.e., the one that is best for the consumer), thus this path doesn't always jive with what third parties want to do. Nintendo knows this and doesn't sweat it, they aren't going to change their game-plan to court third parties because they really aren't needed for success.

 

[chubigans]

Hell I remember when the Wiimote was first revealed EVERYBODY said "That'll be perfect for Pikmin 3!"

Then the Wii edition Pikmins came out and I thought, ok, they're gearing up the new Wii audience for the eventual Wii Pikmin game. Great idea.

*cries*

 

[Truth101]

If it can really stream game-play screen to the 6" tab/controller in like 20 ft without significant delay. Then it will be huge.

I wonder if it can actually do that would I need to hook it up to a TV? hmmm

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than

stopped reading because you're a moron

 

[which1spink]

Interesting, but this just won't happen. Not only would Nintendo segment a market they've just gained back control of, but they already have a portable device in the 3DS... not to mention that it would undermine the whole "we" concept of the Wii brand.

"Hey guys, make sure to bring your Nintendo HD with you! You know the docking station can stream to four tablets. Can't wait to play Mario Party HD finally without splitscreen."

There's your "we" concept ;D

Also see my post above.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo randomly announces it next week.

i'm thinking SS, that and kirby will be wiis swan song.

edit : i think ridley's giving me conniptions D:

 

[Christine]

Then the Wii edition Pikmins came out and I thought, ok, they're gearing up the new Wii audience for the eventual Wii Pikmin game. Great idea.

*cries*

We should form a support group

 

[NewFresh]

Was NSMB and MArio Kart "casual" games? What about DK country, or LOZ:TP, etc.? Sony and MS are barely making a dent in motion controls because they don't know how to sell those products.



That is only $165 million profit for the entire entertainment division, including Zune and PC.

I didn't say 80% of sales, but that is probably close to. 80% of the profits. Nintendo makes money, sony and Xbox have to hide their losses with over divisions.

I can see you are not one for facts or accurate numbers, so I will not discuss them with you. Your opinion is an opinion and that is all; do not state them as facts unless you have something to show for them.

anyway...lol

 

[Doorman]

Was NSMB and MArio Kart "casual" games? What about DK country, or LOZ:TP, etc.? Sony and MS are barely making a dent in motion controls because they don't know how to sell those products.

Zelda had the benefit of being both a Zelda game, as well as a launch title.

NSMBWii and Mario Kart are casual, in a lot of ways. They're what Nintendo has been referring to as "bridge games" for a while now, both have the Mario brand recognition, and are tailored to be inviting to seasoned players and inexperienced ones alike.

DK...well to be honest I have no idea how well that sold, although it too has the benefit of Donkey Kong Country being one of those fondly-remembered names that lapsed gamers can look back on.

I feel like I should also hilariously point out that you used this post to wag the finger at Sony and Microsoft for not marketing motion-based games very well, and yet you can argue that motion is not integral to any of these big-sellers you just listed.

 

[Great Rumbler]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than games most people like to play.

Odd then how the Xbox360 and PS3 have more of the games that core gamers want to play than the Wii!

 

[BowieZ]

Then the Wii edition Pikmins came out and I thought, ok, they're gearing up the new Wii audience for the eventual Wii Pikmin game. Great idea.

*cries*

There's still probably like like 20 months till Cafe is released.

I'm pretty sure Pikmin Wii is coming.

Spoiler

*cries*

i think the surprise feature has something to do with the camera. maybe facial expression recognition. the games could react to if you seem happy or sad, or mad.

X'press

 

[NewFresh]

I wonder if it can actually do that would I need to hook it up to a TV? hmmm

I think the point of the stream would be a wireless system of doing so. Something like WHDI

 

[Dr.Palutena]

There's still probably like like 20 months till Cafe is released.



X'presso

fixed

 

[Ridleyscott]

You mean to tell me that new entries in long-standing, popular series sell well? I am shocked by this startling revelation!

Its not always the case, but you said that it was just a bunch of "casual" games. But I say there is no such thing as a "casual" game. "Casuals" and "core" both play Mario, Mario Kart...

Had Wii come out with a counterpart to RBI baseball, then both "casuals" and "core" would have bought that game... had it been a modern counterpart to many arcade games that were "social", even games like Contra, Final Fight, those would have been bought by both.

Wii succeeded because it go people interested in gaming again who had either left gaming or who had never gamed, and those who have been gaming. Content at the beginning was strong but Nintendo shifted focus away from tapping-in to exploring the core gaming mechanics with motion control and third parties didn't understand because of their modern jaded view of graphically-intensive games.

Odd then how the Xbox360 and PS3 have more of the games that core gamers want to play than the Wii!

Because third parties rebelled against the system, go check out the comments by many developers... they want shiny graphics because they think that is what sells games, but Nintendo proved that to be wrong.

 

[Game-Biz]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than games most people like to play. Third parties are stubborn and are more interested in pushing their video-game fantasies on the consumer.

I used a bit of hyperbole earlier... it isn't that Nintendo doesn't care, it is just that they have to choose the path that is best for them (i.e., the one that is best for the consumer), thus this path doesn't always jive with what third parties want to do. Nintendo knows this and doesn't sweat it, they aren't going to change their game-plan to court third parties because they really aren't needed for success.

And you expect us to believe your sober right now?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Then the Wii edition Pikmins came out and I thought, ok, they're gearing up the new Wii audience for the eventual Wii Pikmin game. Great idea.

*cries*

Did you buy them to show Nintendo there's an audience? I did.

 

[BowieZ]

fixed

Nintendo
x[press]o

 

[Great Rumbler]

Its not always the case, but you said that it was just a bunch of "casual" games. But I say there is no such thing as a "casual" game. "Casuals" and "core" both play Mario, Mario Kart...

"Casual-friendly" is not necessarily the same thing as "casual". Learn 2 reading.

 

[brochiller]

Well my issue isn't even so much about Nintendo losing a chance to cash in with software on their own launch (especially when conventional wisdom says they'll be pricing the hardware at a profit anyway, so they won't even need software to recoup losses there), more the concern that Nintendo will be dumping some new gaming-tech into a company's hands and saying "here, do something cool with this." Everybody scratched their heads when word first came down about a system with two screens and a touch interface, or a pointer-wand that also detects motion in a 3-D space, and things only clicked once Nintendo took a little time and started building their markets.

It was brought up in the "Can Nintendo patch things up with 3rd parties" thread that Wii never received a strong development base on traditional games because there was never an early flow of those titles to prove to them that a profitable audience was there for it. If Nintendo really wants high quality third party software, particularly of the "mature" type, they might have to release a couple of games and personally build that target market, in conjunction with these supposed third party deals.

Admit it, you'd be curious about the prospect of a AAA major-polish "mature" game coming straight form internal Nintendo, and then the additional enhanced ports like GTA5 would serve to cement that purchase decision. If Nintendo wants that style of third-party game, they're going to have to think like those third parties, at least to some extent.

You're definitely right, Nintendo has to do something to convince third parties that their mature titles will sell on their console for them to get the games they want. It's going to take more than the extra horsepower to make that happen. One reason why Nintendo has not had much from third parties in recent years is because of the focus on "mature" titles. Third parties see that Nintendo isn't pushing out these kind of games, so why would they? If the market was there, surely Nintendo would capitalize on it, right?

That being said, I don't ever see Nintendo putting out that kind of game internally. I feel that if they were going to do something like that we would have seen it by now. And I really have no problem with that. Third parties can definitely fill that void if it can be profitable for them.

That brings us back to how Nintendo can prove that these types of ventures can be profitable on their system. Of course Nintendo could throw cash at them so they'll develop for them, but again, Nintendo has been reluctant to do this in the past.

Although maybe, Nintendo really is "doing things right" this time, and the controller, hardware, and online infrastructure will be enough to bring third parties in by themselves.

 

[Poyunch]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than games most people like to play. Third parties are stubborn and are more interested in pushing their video-game fantasies on the consumer.

What? They're both right. Third parties want more power and Nintendo didn't deliver the power that they wanted.

 

[NewFresh]

Did you buy them to show Nintendo there's an audience? I did.

We all hoped it would. I was sure that if I bought it a Pikmin wii would follow, it never came..it never came

 

[Ridleyscott]

"Casual-friendly" is not necessarily the same thing as "casual". Learn 2 reading.

There was never a label of "casual" and "core" during the NES and early SNES days. That didn't come until the war between SEGA and Nintendo. Before then, all sorts of games were on the NES and in the Arcade being played by everyone..

Is PacMan, original DK, Galga, Asteroids casual or core?

Those aren't easy games... they are very difficult to master, even more so than any of today's games.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

There was never a label of "casual" and "core" during the NES and early SNES days. That didn't come until the war between SEGA and Nintendo. Before then, all sorts of games were on the NES and in the Arcade being played by everyone..

No they weren't. Gaming was, for the most part up until this generation, a complete young-generation hobby.

 

[EatChildren]

If Nintendo are serious about third party support they will absolutely want GTAV on the Wii 2.

But I dont buy the rumour.

 

[chubigans]

Did you buy them to show Nintendo there's an audience? I did.

I should have. Maybe...this is all my fault... ;_;

 

[which1spink]

I wonder if it can actually do that would I need to hook it up to a TV? hmmm

If the streaming rumor is true, I really don't see a point in hooking it up to a TV. First of all, you can't use the touchscreen without looking at it, even with advanced haptic feedback you just don't know where the touch the screen without looking. And if you have the touchscreen and the TV Nintendo would create a situation where the users would constantly have to change their focus from TV to tablet, which doesn't sound like fun at all. Also if it would be just used for menues, inventars and stuff like that, it'd be a completely pointless and very expensive gimmick.

And yes, that's certainly a possibility. After all, we're talking about Nintendo

 

[Ridleyscott]

No they weren't. Gaming was, for the most part up until this generation, a complete young-generation hobby.

Not true, I grew up in it. My mom and dad had an Atari, Coleco vision in the early 80s. My friends parents had other game consoles I can't even remember. My wouldn't play Zelda, it was too hard for her, now she probably wouldn't die if she tried. But she played Mario, Tetris, Cluclu land, etc.

Those people left gaming when the focus became graphics.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

The biggest reason Nintendo lacked large third party support on the Wii is because third parties are obsessed with making games with shiny graphics rather than games most people like to play. Third parties are stubborn and are more interested in pushing their video-game fantasies on the consumer.

It's becoming more and more apparent that this is true. Too bad investors haven't caught on yet.

 

[watershed]

Gaming would only be possibly in a certain range around the docking station. Otherwise there would be no reason for the 3DS to exist

Also - technically speaking - you'd need one wicked-fast portable internet to stream HD content and even then their would be a certain lag between the user input and the videostream.

Well that's enough of this idea for me. Sorry but I can't see this happening. If I'm wrong I'll come back and congratulate you for being a spot on soothsayer.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's gonna be a strange transition waiting for the next xbox and PS. Project Cafe will basically be the most powerful console on the market for a year and it could get a lot of 360/PS3 games but will the devs take advantage of the extra power to make the Cafe versions the best.

 

[wonderfuldays]

I wonder if it can actually do that would I need to hook it up to a TV? hmmm

It's your choice. Cafe can either hook on HDTV or stream to your Tab/Controller if family members wants that TV back. Just thinking.

 

[NewFresh]

I should have. Maybe...this is all my fault... ;_;

I don't like you right now...Don't even look at me

 

[MidnightScott]

OK last mockup I promise.

Looks like some Sony moves