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[Father_Brain]

Short of Nintendo creating a Gears of War like franchise and it hitting big, they'll never get the dudebro audience completely regardless.

If getting the core audience isn't a viable goal, then I fail to see how it's worth jettisoning the two-piece Wii Remote/Nunchuk design just to get a slightly bigger slice of the core pie.

There's a difference between not matching XBL and having a shitty online.
The Cafe will, at the very least, have these things:

Live updated friends list
Messaging (Text and/or voice)
Game Invites
Voice Chat in game
Demos

That isn't a shitty online.

That's one hell of a lot of assumptions you're making. In fact, it's not even certain that 3DS will have the latter four as standard features.

 

[bgassassin]

- Nintendo fans will be like “wow”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXvMTNAbXn8

 

[AceBandage]

If getting the dudebro audience isn't a viable goal, then it's certainly not worth jettisoning the two-piece Wii Remote/Nunchuk design just to get a slightly bigger slice of the core pie.



That's one hell of a lot of assumptions you're making. In fact, it's not even certain that 3DS will have the latter four as standard features.

How so?
Demos were already shown in pictures of the eShop ages ago.
The Wii and DS already could both do Voice chat.
Messaging and Game Invites are both something that Iwata is pushing.

 

[Boney]

what score did I get, Boney-sensei?

you know you freak me out

you remind me of feetfreak (may he rest in peace)

and just so you know, you had to quote the code of honor stufff

 

[Plinko]

- Nintendo fans will be like “wow”

This comes off like a backhanded comment.

 

[Conrad Link]

I just hope Nintendo streamline the online stuff a little bit, the 3DS was a step in the right direction but just things like friends requests etc shouldn't be a foreign concept.

Put good parental controls in and just leave it up to them to sort out.

 

[Father_Brain]

How so?
Demos were already shown in pictures of the eShop ages ago.

Yes, I saw that screenshot too. Konno's comments at GDC do not make me optimistic that Nintendo will actually encourage them in the eShop, but maybe I'll be proven wrong this week. I hope so.

The Wii and DS already could both do Voice chat.

As standard features?

Messaging and Game Invites are both something that Iwata is pushing.

Source?

 

[Instro]

If Nintendo wants me to say wow, they better roll out F-Zero.

 

[AceBandage]

Yes, I saw that screenshot too. Konno's comments at GDC do not make me optimistic that Nintendo will actually encourage them in the eShop, but maybe I'll be proven wrong this week. I hope so.


As standard features?


Source?

Not sure what you mean by "standard features" but any online game was capable of having online voice chat.

As for Messaging and Game Invites:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_-_nintendo_3ds_30756_32345.html

 

[DECK'ARD]

If Nintendo wants me to say wow, they better roll out F-Zero.

If they allowed Sega to do a next-gen follow-up to GX, the controller will have electric shock feedback to truly punish feeble gamers.

 

[NateDrake]

Even in a worst case scenario (no special controller, just an upgraded Wiiremote, graphics exactly like 360s, online only as good as 3DS's with a couple more features) there isn't really a problem.
Except for those people that must have their achievements. And I just don't see Nintendo doing them this go around.
You also have to take into account that a lot of people with 360s won't switch over for a CoD game, so you're not going to have that install base initially.

I think his comment was just saying that people will play CoD on 360/PS3 still because those are the systems people have and will associate to for it. Not bashing the Wii2 just more of a comment saying people won't jump ship to Wii2 just for CoD.

 

[Father_Brain]

Not sure what you mean by "standard features" but any online game was capable of having online voice chat.

And how many actually did?

As for Messaging and Game Invites:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_-_nintendo_3ds_30756_32345.html

Show me the quote that refers to said features. I see nothing there beyond a few references to the built-in "messaging" and friends list.

 

[watershed]

Not sure what you mean by "standard features" but any online game was capable of having online voice chat.

As for Messaging and Game Invites:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_-_nintendo_3ds_30756_32345.html

What are you trying to point to with that Iwata asks? Because the only thing I see about messaging is the status update thing in the friend's list and that is no way to have a chat with a friend. You can also send messages with streetpass but its pretty useless and both forms have extreme character limits that need to be upped. Right now I can barely fit a facebook status update style message in there.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Since everyone is posting mock-ups, I figured I throw my hat in the arena too (I drew these this morning).
I didn't get it 16:9 ratio, but close enough, it gets the point across.
I also didn't do any side, bottom, top or back views, but just assume there are 2 shoulder and 2 analog triggers on the back of each shell.

version 1: Wiimote 2.0 insert, horizontal screen above controller, shell has extra analog and d-pad

version 2: Wiimote 2.0v2 insert, horizontal screen next to controller, shell has 4 buttons and analog

version 3: Wiimote 2.0v2 insert, vertical screen next to controller, shell has 4 buttons and analog

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Even in a worst case scenario (no special controller, just an upgraded Wiiremote, graphics exactly like 360s, online only as good as 3DS's with a couple more features) there isn't really a problem.

It will be if the system is releasing for $350 - $400 like the rumors suggest. E3 is going to be a long wait.

Edit -

I think his comment was just saying that people will play CoD on 360/PS3 still because those are the systems people have and will associate to for it. Not bashing the Wii2 just more of a comment saying people won't jump ship to Wii2 just for CoD.

I hope that's what he was referring to (the online) and not the graphics or controls.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I know many of you are trying and I give you credit for that and are just using your imagination as to what it can look like but seriously, many of these are so NOT what Nintendo has evolved into the last 7 years. Nintendo likes simplicity in their controllers. They have taken an Apple approach in how their products look. Clean. Simple. Something that grabs the attention of the individual. Almost every one of these mock ups does the very opposite. Tons of buttons. Lay outs that are simply not comfortable or practicable. And they are not CLEAN and simple.

Many of you are capable of some very interesting designs and I'd like to see your ability reflected in something more simple. Not just putting 2 Wiimotes next to an iPad.

 

[Father_Brain]

What are you trying to point to with that Iwata asks? Because the only thing I see about messaging is the status update thing in the friend's list and that is no way to have a chat with a friend. You can also send messages with streetpass but its pretty useless and both forms have extreme character limits that need to be upped. Right now I can barely fit a facebook status update style message in there.

I suspect he's working under an optimistic interpretation of the bolded:

Iwata:
Thanks to some hard work from Mizuki-san and the rest of the Network Business Department, people were able to use that friend list starting the day the Nintendo 3DS system was released. It's really nice that you're able to tell almost instantaneously when the other person connects to the Internet, isn't it?

Mizuki:
The people in charge of the servers in the Network Business Department worked really hard, and they've made it so that the instantaneous "So-and-so is now online" message comes through well. Besides that, when someone is playing a game, their Mii character will appear with their Nintendo 3DS system and seem to be playing as well. So you can tell at a glance which of your friends is currently playing a game. I think it feels very true-to-life.

Iwata:
So in future, it will be possible to take, say, Mario Kart, check your friend list, and play against that person right then and there.

Mizuki:
Right. Not only that, you won't even have to open your friend list. We've made it so that, when you're in the HOME Menu, you'll get a notification, or the notification light will turn orange, and you'll know that someone's come online.

Unfortunately, the actual context of that quote suggests that the "future" part refers to Mario Kart's release, rather than to OS features that have yet to be implemented. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but Nintendo makes it so damn hard to be optimistic. After all, we only got universal friend codes and a rudimentary, barely useful Friend List app on 3DS after five years of complaints about the abomination that was game-specific friend codes, and Nintendo simply will not be able to get away with those kinds of baby steps on its next console if they have any serious intent of recapturing the Western core market.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

This is still my favorite mock up. It actually looks awesome.

 

[carlo6529]

This is still my favorite mock up. It actually looks awesome.

[IM G]http://gearmedia.ign.com/gear/image/article/116/1162204/how-could-the-wii-2-controller-work-20110415053115064-000.jpg[/IMG]

It's definately nice but my only concern would be for the pointer controls.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The black wii remote (the one on the left) in the image below would have been ideal to me. You have plenty of buttons at your thumb regardless of whether it's held straight or sideways and the layout doesn't change. It's also universally recognized on any dvd remote control in the past 10+ years. The d-pad at the bottom is perfect because they don't have to use a little one. If they would go with that button layout and make it more ergonimic, I think it would be perfect. I think games like Metroid: Other M have proven that motion controls don't replace buttons. It was a mistake for them to only use the single "A" button on the Wii remote imo.

 

[From The Dust]

This is still my favorite mock up. It actually looks awesome.

and practical. though it is too small to accomidate a 6" screen. the Kotaku mock up and all those like it are my preferences as they are practical and solves most of the problems with including a screen (go figure, it's also the simplest solution).

 

[Zeliard]

It's definately nice but my only concern would be for the pointer controls.

I would say the concern there is the size. Imagine how big that thing would have to be for the screen to be 6" diagonally.

 

[watershed]

Unfortunately, the actual context of that quote suggests that the "future" part refers to Mario Kart's release, rather than to OS features that have yet to be implemented. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but Nintendo makes it so damn hard to be optimistic. After all, we only got universal friend codes and a rudimentary, barely useful Friend List app on 3DS after five years of complaints about the abomination that was game-specific friend codes, and Nintendo simply will not be able to get away with those kinds of baby steps on its next console if they have any serious intent of recapturing the Western core market.

I agree the 3ds is missing some pretty fundamental online features especially after they promised a better online system.
Why do both people need to input friendcodes in order to be friends?
Why don't I get a message telling me someone is trying to invite me to be their friend?
Why is the status update so character limited?
Why can I not organize my friend list based on whose online or my own preference?

I am never optimistic about Nintendo's online stuff and they haven't proven me wrong yet. Also I think its kind of telling that none of their 1st party launch games have any online play.
So yeah I'm not getting my hopes up about the online features of the N6 though I will say I have no personal interest in voice chat.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

yep all these transformers/deattachable segments controllers seem highly unlikely to me.

 

[Instro]

I still think the best method to deal with the controller is to have the standard one with the screen and have a second one that is a upgraded wiimote and ship with both.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Isn't it feasible that it may NOT be 6in in size? Because I still cannot picture a controller with analog sticks with a 6 inch screen attached to it that is comfortable and not simply hideous to look at.

 

[Zeliard]

I still think the best method to deal with the controller is to have the standard one with the screen and have a second one that is a upgraded wiimote and ship with both.

This is what I've always thought would be the case. People keep insisting that the dual analog/screen controller HAS to be the pointer and that's where a lot of these mockups are just going off into crazy land.

 

[watershed]

Isn't it feasible that it may NOT be 6in in size? Because I still cannot picture a controller with analog sticks with a 6 inch screen attached to it that is comfortable and not simply hideous to look at.

If its 6" at all its 6" diagonal which makes the screen smaller than a lot of these mock ups that use the 6" for the horizontal measure. Screen size is never given by the length of one dimension, it makes no sense. Its always based on the diagonal length.

 

[From The Dust]

This is what I've always thought would be the case. People keep insisting that the dual analog/screen controller HAS to be the pointer and that's where a lot of these mockups are just going off into crazy land.

as far as we know, there isn't a pointer in the screenpad (not like that would be as great as the wiimote, dispite it prolly working better than we think)

packing in a a Streammote would be the only other logical conclusion

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Isn't it feasible that it may NOT be 6in in size? Because I still cannot picture a controller with analog sticks with a 6 inch screen attached to it that is comfortable and not simply hideous to look at.

anything is feasible. All we got are rumors of what are probably at most early dev kits, things could've changed.

put me in the two controllers camp, especially if this thing does have a 6 inch screen.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I still think the best method to deal with the controller is to have the standard one with the screen and have a second one that is a upgraded wiimote and ship with both.

Yep, that's what I proposed many pages back. Both controllers standard, obviously sold separately for additional controllers.

The cool thing will be multiplayer potential since one player will have traditional pad w/ screen and the other has pointer controls. I'm envisioning one player has the main screen w/ pointer, in some sort of FPS game. Player 2 has a top-down view of the battlefield, and deploys soldiers to prevent Player 1 from completing their objectives.

Or another where player 2 is controlling a UAV or UGV to give support to player 1. The coop potential is off the fucking charts imo.

 

[bgassassin]

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK11131&mode=retail

It can be yours again, sir.

Durn. How did I miss this post?

*looks at price*

Nah, I don't miss it that bad.

 

[Diffense]

The width of the controller is not an issue at all.
Your forearms are quite comfortable in line with your legs (if you're sitting) and even on a child that gives more than enough room for a 6 inch screen.
It would only be uncomfortable if your forearms had to point away from your body to hold the ends and there's no way it'll be that big regardless of what they put in it.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Its more that any online that Nintendo do, won't be as good as XBL and we have to be realistic about that.

Nintendo will not get everything right.

 

[EDarkness]

Forgot one: 'COD games will play better on 360/PS3'

What does that even mean?

 

[dwu8991]

I expect E3 to be amazing.
And I doubt I'll be disappointed.

All the Wii E3's have been somewhat disappointing in retrospect.

 

[crazy monkey]

why do we have two threads? It is hard to caught up.

 

[GregLombardi]

I've been looking back at GAF's archive, specifically the reveal of the Wiimote by Iwata and the specific words he used. It is very interesting to hear the translated version of his speech when he first revealed what was still called the "Revolution's" controller.

I think the thing that has struck me about that reveal is that 1. It was nearly 6 years ago; 2. Iwata said exactly the strategy that they were going to take with the Revolution, and it was all right in front of everyone's faces. Every single thing he said came true in terms of them executing on a very specific vision that targeted a very specific path for them to blaze.

The only official commentary we've received about Project Cafe (assuming this is the real name of the project), is that it will likely be HD and do something different. However, Nintendo is no longer calling for a revolution, at least not in the way that they talked about Revolution. They haven't said a peep. If this system is really coming at the end of 2011 or early 2012 as rumors suggest, I find myself in a total mind fuck as to which route they should / will take. Charlequin has posited some very good strategic analysis on Nintendo's situation, but quite frankly none of the rumors or current speculation fit a watershed moment for the industry like the Revolution did. And yet, Nintendo's guarded nature still speaks to the situation in a watershed like manner. As such, it will truly be interesting to see if Iwata can continue to lead the company in positive directions during this age of rapidly changing technology and phones, IPads, etc., or if Nintendo will sit out of the leader post for a generation...

 

[Anth0ny]

All the Wii E3's have been somewhat disappointing in retrospect.

Last year's was amazing. We finally saw Skyward Sword for the first time, DKCR and Epic Yarn out of fucking nowhere (and 3DS reveal).

But the others were fuck awful.

 

[bgassassin]

They aren't calling for a revolution because this console is on the evolution aspect of the trend.

 

[Zeliard]

as far as we know, there isn't a pointer in the screenpad (not like that would be as great as the wiimote, dispite it prolly working better than we think)

packing in a a Streammote would be the only other logical conclusion

Exactly what they should do. Put a dual analog and a pointer/nunchuk in there, and then allow devs (including Nintendo) to offer varying choices on how players want to control their games.

With stuff like Move we're going to hopefully start seeing a greater variety of console shooters and other types of games offer a pointer control method, to where it becomes entirely normal and expected to have that option.

I don't really see dual analog for shooters going away within the next 10 or so years, barring some unforeseen tech advance, because people have been using it for entirely too long and many will continue to out of habit and resistance to change. But at least the pointer can start to wean some gamers off dual analog for shooters, especially as pointer tech improves and more people become accustomed to it. If the pointer starts showing consistent competitive advantage, that's when you'll start seeing people really switching. Some control methods are widely adopted because pro gamers used them and popularized them in tourneys (WASD).

Having said all that, standard dual analog should absolutely still remain for genres like 3rd-person action games, e.g. Bayonetta.

 

[Boney]

Last year's was amazing. We finally saw Skyward Sword for the first time, DKCR and Epic Yarn out of fucking nowhere (and 3DS reveal).

But the others were fuck awful.

and a new other m trailer ñam ñam ñam

Having said all that, standard dual analog should absolutely still remain for genres like 3rd-person action games, e.g. Bayonetta.

you don't need a second analog for Bayo, and my beauty above proves that.

You do need it for god hand though

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Its more that any online that Nintendo do, won't be as good as XBL and we have to be realistic about that.

Nintendo will not get everything right.

that's not even factoring whatever overhauls, updates and additions XBL/PSN will have with the change to next gen, so yeah realistically one can only hope nintendo gets the basics right with this console.

 

[dwu8991]

They aren't calling for a revolution because this console is on the evolution aspect of the trend.

It's part of their revolution of how they want people to play games unlike sony and microsoft which just push for more power and graphics which is more evolutionary.

 

[From The Dust]

I can see 3 play styles with the Cafe:

1. Dual Analogue
2. Wiimote/Streammote Pointer
3. Touchscreen Aiming

I'm sure developers will put in 'mote aiming as they did with GCN control schemes

 

[apana]

This thing better have wii mote motion controls and pointing or Nintendo is a poopy head.

 

[poppabk]

that's not even factoring whatever overhauls, updates and additions XBL/PSN will have with the change to next gen, so yeah realistically one can only hope nintendo gets the basics right with this console.

The basics are server browser and dedicated servers. Consoles rarely if ever get the basics right and even the PC is less likely to have basic online features anymore - so I doubt Wii2 will get it right.

 

[bgassassin]

It's part of their revolution of how they want people to game unlike sony and microsoft which just push for more power and graphics which is more evolutionary.

I'm referring to Miyamoto stating how Nintendo's console line goes.

NES - Revolution
SNES - Evolution
N64 - Revolution
GC - Evolution
Wii - Revolution
N6 - Evolution

 

[GregLombardi]

I'm referring to Miyamoto stating how Nintendo's console line goes.

NES - Revolution
SNES - Evolution
N64 - Revolution
GC - Evolution
Wii - Revolution
N6 - Evolution

Miyamoto said this explicitly?

Is an evolution the best business move though? I am not convinced of this anymore in this age of new, crazy tech.

 

[Zeliard]

and a new other m trailer ñam ñam ñam

you don't need a second analog for Bayo, and my beauty above proves that.

You do need it for god hand though

It may not be entirely necessary when you can center the camera with a button (in NGB I just re-center all the time), but having another analog stick there is still nice for minute control of the camera in platformers and other games.