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[DDayton]

I will care when it's confirmed. The 3DS still has friend codes

Oh, how horrible. The 3DS has a friend system which requires two people to add each other, as opposed to annoying Facebook-like friend invites.

Cough.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Wait what, a new Nintendo console possibly this year??! That's hard to believe. Has any company in the past few generations announced a console and released it in the same year?

It's more the rule than the exception. Sony's showed fake demos only because they've been late to market and tried sucking the buzz out of DC and 360. Nintendo Wii's first E3 wasn't really a unveiling of anything. Some empty words and that's that. I think the better question is: Has anyone unveiled actual playable games and not launched for another 1.5 years? I can't recall anyone.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh, how horrible. The 3DS has a friend system which requires two people to add each other, as opposed to annoying Facebook-like friend invites.

Cough.

I'm sorry I'm simply not in the business of being a pathetic corporate shill and pretend something that sucks doesn't. Sorry if that offends you. Living in the stone age is not something I am going to make excuses for.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'd say that's a save bet, because we have sen what a Nintendo made Wii game looks like running in Dolphin without any enhancements. Now think what it could look like after enhancements.
The question is though would Nintendo do that, I mean who would want the Wii version if the Wii2 version is in 1080p and looks so much nicer?

Having Dophinesque emulation for all games would be the ideal option. Just make it so you need an old Wii controllers assuming that's necessary.

It's more the rule than the exception. Sony's showed fake demos only because they've been late to market and tried sucking the buzz out of DC and 360. Nintendo Wii's first E3 wasn't really a unveiling of anything. Some empty words and that's that. I think the better question is: Has anyone unveiled actual playable games and not launched for another 1.5 years? I can't recall anyone.

Yeah that's more like it. Revolution must be the most padded-out announcement there ever was.

 

[Bert]

I love this time of the console lifecycle, anything is possible.

I agree that the detachable remote mockups are unrealistic, the screenpad seems the most realistic of all of them.

I think the amount Iwata has talked about the mobile threat is interesting, coupled with this apparent move towards a 6 inch slate.

Do we know the buttons are attached to the screen? or could it be inserted into some kind of button addon? It's really anti-Nintendo, but I wonder if some kind of mobile integration could be done, like using your Android or iOS mobile as a kind of Dreamcast VMU. They could release an app that connects to the console and allows mini-games and Virtual Console games. If you didn't have a compatible phone you could buy the Nintendo 6" slate, that perhaps works just as a web browser and basic virtual console.

Problem is that cannibalizes the 3DS market, and the dock would need to be universal.

 

[DDayton]

I'm sorry I'm simply not in the business of being a pathetic corporate shill and pretend something that sucks doesn't. Sorry if that offends you.

I think we'll have to disagree -- I like a system in which both sides have to request, and I dislike a system in which I get random friend invites. The 3DS friend system isn't broken horribly like on the Wii/DS.

Yes, I understand why you dislike it, as it doesn't have friend invites. However, I honestly don't understand why it's such a major problem - so what if you both have to add each other? I mean, it seems like such a minor deal.

 

[Nirolak]

I think we'll have to disagree -- I like a system in which both sides have to request, and I dislike a system in which I get random friend invites. The 3DS friend system isn't broken horribly like on the Wii/DS.

Yes, I understand why you dislike it, as it doesn't have friend invites. However, I honestly don't understand why it's such a major problem - so what if you both have to add each other? I mean, it seems like such a minor deal.

My personal problem with Friend Codes is the Friend Codes themselves.

Try listing 50 poster names from GAF.

Then try listing 50 friend codes of people you know.

 

[Amir0x]

I think we'll have to disagree -- I like a system in which both sides have to request, and I dislike a system in which I get random friend invites. The 3DS friend system isn't broken horribly like on the Wii/DS.

Yes, I understand why you dislike it, as it doesn't have friend invites. However, I honestly don't understand why it's such a major problem - so what if you both have to add each other? I mean, it seems like such a minor deal.

It's not a minor deal. It's fucking terrible. Like any normal system, if one person invites the other person should be prompted to add. You make a nickname, and that's all anybody would have to remember - not some garbage friend code. The distinction between remembering nicknames and remembering friend codes is also vast.

This discussion is so beyond my attention span right now. It took me no less than an hour to add all the people who wanted to be on my friend lists. It's awful. We're past making excuses for friend codes, sorry. Until Nintendo exits the stoneage, it's a feature that will be lambasted for all eternity.

 

[AzureNightmare]

It's not a minor deal. It's fucking terrible. Like any normal system, if one person invites the other person should be prompted to add. You make a nickname, and that's all anybody would have to remember - not some garbage friend code. The distinction between remembering nicknames and remembering friend codes is also vast.

This discussion is so beyond my attention span right now. It's awful. We're past making excuses for friend codes, sorry. Until Nintendo exits the stoneage, it's a feature that will be lambasted for all eternity.

Making a mountain out of a mole hill again Ami? Come on now, it just isnt worth getting worked up over.

 

[Amir0x]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill again Ami? Come on now, it just isnt worth getting worked up over.

Again, not worth making excuses over. It's atrocious, period. If you're going to come at me like it's not, I'm going to massacre the position.

If you don't want that sort of response, then don't bother making excuses for the terrible system to me. There's plenty of other people who will play pretend for you.

 

[Wrestlemania]

It just needs two options. One friend code system with no registration that works like the 3DS. The other option is registering an account with an email address (probably just a Club Nintendo account) with proper options for adding friends when they add you, recoverable purchases/fried list etc.
Covers everyone, nobody can complain. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and both have benefits to certain groups which warrant their inclusion.

 

[Koren]

It's not a minor deal. It's fucking terrible. Like any normal system, if one person invites the other person should be prompted to add. You make a nickname, and that's all anybody would have to remember - not some garbage friend code. The distinction between remembering nicknames and remembering friend codes is also vast.

I really disagree...

You only need the friend code ONCE, when you add your frends (assuming a 3DS-like system, not a per-game system). After that, you never see the friend code again, you see the Mii nickname. You don't have to remember the friend code at all.

On the opposite, with PSN/XBox live, since the nickname is also the login, more than half of my friends have a completely different name on forums and online. You have to remember who is who. It's really unconfortable.


On Nintendo systems, at least, two different friends code can share the same nickname, so your friends have their usual nickname, not AmirOx1423 or anything worse. I don't want to have to choose a different nickname because someone registered the same nickname 15000km from where I live, three years ago, and hasn't even use it...


Edit : I don't care if it's a number or a login, but I want a system where the online nickname can differ from the account login.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I agree that Friend Codes need to leave, but calling someone a 'pathetic corporate shill' because they disagree with you is a bit fucking much. Horses for courses, like.

 

[DDayton]

It's not a minor deal.

Yes, it really is. You dislike it - I get that. You also tend to be prone to hyperbole when making any statements. There's nothing wrong with a system using numerical numbers instead of nicknames (and a lot of things right with it, considering you never need to use the identification code more than once).

Friend invite prompts would be welcomed by many, I readily agree, but I still don't find it as obnoxious as others do... but I'll drop this, as I don't see this going anywhere.

As an extreme aside -- the 3DS Friend List -does- work with SSFIV, right?

I agree that Friend Codes need to leave, but calling someone a 'pathetic corporate shill' because they disagree with you is a bit much. Horses for courses, like.

I really didn't think Amir0x was calling -me- a shill -- I assumed he was just venting his hatred for friend codes and saying he wasn't a shill enough to go for them. I assume Amir0x knows I'm not a shill...(hides his Virtual Boy)

 

[Wolves Evolve]

It's not a minor deal. It's fucking terrible. Like any normal system, if one person invites the other person should be prompted to add. You make a nickname, and that's all anybody would have to remember - not some garbage friend code. The distinction between remembering nicknames and remembering friend codes is also vast.

This discussion is so beyond my attention span right now. It took me no less than an hour to add all the people who wanted to be on my friend lists. It's awful. We're past making excuses for friend codes, sorry. Until Nintendo exits the stoneage, it's a feature that will be lambasted for all eternity.

The fundamental thing is that Nintendo are going to have to spend a lot of money to do online properly, which they must now do. So they will have to petulantly get with the program with a proper shop, friends list, multiplayer platforms this time around - they have no choice. A proper infrastructure that can deal with all that, names and messaging and so on, that also acts as a bulwark against the App Store, AND done the Nintendo way, is at least a billion dollar proposition.

I'm not offering an excuse. I'm offering context. Friend codes were always a mistake and I think their disappearance (or not) is a good litmus for whether they are serious about online.

 

[Mr_Brit]

It just needs two options. One friend code system with no registration that works like the 3DS. The other option is registering an account with an email address (probably just a Club Nintendo account) with proper options for adding friends when they add you, recoverable purchases/fried list etc.
Covers everyone, nobody can complain. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and both have benefits to certain groups which warrant their inclusion.

Or you know, they could drop the 1999 online infrastructure and move to a modern system with cross game chat, invites, friends requests, party chat, gamertags, modern web browser, cloud saves, marketplaces etc instead of catering to paranoid parents who wouldn't even let their kids go online in the first place.

Unless you're the parent of an 8 year old I don't see why you'd be opposed to such things and even if you were you shouldn't let an 8 year old go online unsupervised.

 

[Amir0x]

Yes, it really is. You dislike it - I get that. You also tend to be prone to hyperbole when making any statements. There's nothing wrong with a system using numerical numbers instead of nicknames (and a lot of things right with it, considering you never need to use the identification code more than once).

Friend invite prompts would be welcomed by many, I readily agree, but I still don't find it as obnoxious as others do... but I'll drop this, as I don't see this going anywhere.

As an extreme aside -- the 3DS Friend List -does- work with SSFIV, right?

What did I say? Not going to make excuses for you. Please pander this bullshit to some Nintendo fanboy who actually buys this shit. I don't.

You guys wonder why threads get derailed, this is why. I don't have any patience for revisiting this subject with individuals who would choose to defend the horrible practice. The opinion of one who defends friendcodes is worth less than nothing to me on this subject.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Or you know, they could drop the 1999 online infrastructure and move to a modern system with cross game chat, invites, friends requests, party chat, gamertags, modern web browser, cloud saves, marketplaces etc instead of catering to paranoid parents who wouldn't even let their kids go online in the first place.

Or, you know, cater to both.

 

[szaromir]

16 numbers friend code is an overkill, however the idea isn't fundamentally broken - it's pretty much an equivalent of phone numbers and no one complains how they work. 8-10 numbers would be actually possible to remember for most people and would work much better, though, and would totally satisfy the network's needs.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Or, you know, cater to both.

Why? Just take people who are 'fine' with the old and force them to adopt the new. Some people need to dragged kicking and screaming into the modern day. When faced with no other option, they'll learn to like whatever's pushed in front of them. Meanwhile, people who actually enjoy progress get progress

 

[Triton55]

I can understand why some people might prefer a mutual adding system with nicknames, but mutual adding with a string of digits is way too laborious.
Friend invites are definitely the most convenient - and anything less is going to be unacceptable to a public adapted to facebook. If you don't want to add random people then don't. Having to click decline a few times is less work than having to input digits.

That said, I still don't quite see Nintendo completely abandoning their "won't somebody please think of the children???" stance.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Why? Just take people who are 'fine' with the old and force them to adopt the new. Some people need to dragged kicking and screaming into the modern day. When faced with no other option, they'll learn to like whatever's pushed in front of them. Meanwhile, people who actually enjoy progress get progress

It doesn't work like that. It's not just that people are "fine" with it, it's that not forcing people to register an account and stopping random people adding you as friends are genuine advantages of the current system which make it more inclusive.

 

[Hot Coldman]

It doesn't work like that. It's not just that people are "fine" with it, it's that not forcing people to register an account and stopping random people adding you as friends are genuine advantages of the current system which make it more inclusive.

The convenience of adding and managing contacts under an account based system outweighs the inconvenience of having to click a 'Decline' button every so often.

 

[Dabanton]

I can understand why some people might prefer a mutual adding system with nicknames, but mutual adding with a string of digits is way too laborious.
Friend invites are definitely the most convenient - and anything less is going to be unacceptable to a public adapted to facebook. If you don't want to add random people then don't. Having to click decline a few times is less work than having to input digits.

That said, I still don't quite see Nintendo completely abandoning their "won't somebody please think of the children???" stance.

Also people who game on Xbox Live and PSN. The people Nintendo are allegedly trying to capture with their new machine.

But Nintendo seems incapable of taking online seriously.

 

[Wrestlemania]

The convenience of adding and managing contacts under an account based system outweighs the inconvenience of having to click a 'Decline' button every so often.

That doesn't mean they should force everyone to register. They can do both.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That doesn't mean they should force everyone to register. They can do both.

Exactly, an anonymous mode wouldn't hurt, just lock out potentially offensive features like voice chat and everyone's happy.

 

[Hot Coldman]

That doesn't mean they should force everyone to register. They can do both.

Well it wouldn't happen anyway. The logistics of managing two systems like that, you really expect Nintendo to bother? They'll use one system or none. If they're with it, they'll go with accounts- if they're still as boxed in as ever (the 3DS seems to say they are) they'll use the objectively inferior system the 3DS uses.

EDIT: Well... OK, if anyone's going to try an anonymous mode and have it work, it would probably be Nintendo. I still think they should just get with the program though, and force account based online.

 

[AzureNightmare]

What did I say? Not going to make excuses for you. Please pander this bullshit to some Nintendo fanboy who actually buys this shit. I don't.

You guys wonder why threads get derailed, this is why. I don't have any patience for revisiting this subject with individuals who would choose to defend the horrible practice. The opinion of one who defends friendcodes is worth less than nothing to me on this subject.

Something something....High blood pressure.... Something something... shorter life expectancy

 

[Mr_Brit]

If Nintendo's aim is really to capture the hardcore audience they won't be able to do so using their current online infrastructure.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Well it wouldn't happen anyway. The logistics of managing two systems like that, you really expect Nintendo to bother? They'll use one system or none. If they're with it, they'll go with accounts- if they're still as boxed in as ever (the 3DS seems to say they are) they'll use the objectively inferior system the 3DS uses.

EDIT: Well... OK, if anyone's going to try an anonymous mode and have it work, it would probably be Nintendo. I still think they should just get with the program though, and force account based online.

Including the current friend code system would require next to no extra effort. There is not a single good argument to be made for them not including system that allows playing online without creating an account.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Including the current friend code system would require next to no extra effort. There is not a single good argument to be made for them not including system that allows playing online without creating an account.

Serious question: is your only problem with the account-based standard for online services the part where you get friend requests from randomers?

 

[Wrestlemania]

Serious question: is your only problem with the account-based standard for online services the part where you get friend requests from randomers?

I have loads of problems with it, and I don't care about having to register if that's what it takes to fix it. That doesn't mean I don't recognise the need for a system which caters to people who don't are about those things and doesn't have a forced registration.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Sorry, I misread. I don't mind having to register and don't care about random friend requests, but I'm not nieve or selfish enough to not recognise that there are people who do mind those things and that there shouldn't be a system in place for them.

 

[Kenka]

Gaf will implode into a million starquakes if stream releases this year with zelda skyward sword getting the twilight treatment. Make it happen nintendo.

Nope. GAF won't explode in any way, this conversation on Nintendo hardware leads nowhere. And GAF did already explode for DQ IX announcement. Nothing wil ever match that.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I have loads of problems with it, and I don't care about having to register if that's what it takes to fix it. That doesn't mean I don't recognise the need for a system which caters to people who don't are about those things and doesn't have a forced registration.

Sorry, I misread. I don't mind having to register and don't care about random friend requests, but I'm not nieve or selfish enough to not recognise that there are people who do mind those things and that there shouldn't be a system in place for them.

So? Screw those people. They don't know want they want. With any new technology there's always a small minority that holds out and whinges and nitpicks. History has taught us that these people soon fall into line. People complained about mp3s, for example- look where we are now. Implementing both systems may be easy to achieve, but it goes beyond that- continuing to support the obsolete sends out a message of poor faith in the account-based service, and gives the naysayers some leeway into believing their outdated mindset is still in the right. A forced move to accounts tells people what the standard is, and they need to catch up.

The argument here is kind of silly. Why argue against progress? Like the poster earlier said, it's a 1999 system and we're in 2011. No point living in the past, even a small bit, just for the sake of an unthinking minority. Put the new system in front of those that 'mind those things' and they'll learn to love it just as much as the old way in time. It's like getting parents to use a modern browser and bin IE6- they'll complain and nitpick at first, but after a week it'll be like nothing changed, even though it's a real difference in the long run.

 

[Graphics Horse]

So, about PSN being down...

 

[klier]

I'm so freaking exited!!

Going from Wii (Gamecube +) to Project Cafe will be the biggest leap ever in graphics for Nintendo. It's going to be absolutely epic, considering what they are capable of with Wii hardware (Mario Galaxy graphics). But Mario Galaxy times 10 plus 1080p?? DAMN!!!

Mario and Zelda, boy oh boy....

 

[Hot Coldman]

So, about PSN being down...

*shrugs* I can live with it. Not happy about it, not going to make excuses for it, but ultimately it's not so big a thing that I'm going walk into the streets and set myself on fire or whatever people do nowadays when they get angry.

 

[Nessus]

Cod is one of those game i could see it being better to buy on 360/ps3 simply because a greater part of the community will be there not on the new console, plus online etc etc.

I understand that this is a very real concern for a lot of people, but it's just so beyond my experience it's hard to relate.

In all honesty I really couldn't care less about console online gaming. I do all my online gaming on PC, despite owning all 3 current gen systems.

Console online is, without exception, a worse experience.

Fewer concurrent players, being forced to buy map packs that you'd get for free on PC, enjoyment-ruining exploits and glitches taking far longer to patch because they must go through a convoluted bureaucratic approval process, and when you're lucky enough to not be scammed into paying for P2P multiplayer the third parties take down the servers 2 years later and your game becomes unplayable.

Meanwhile, I can go and play Age Of Empires II with friends right now if I want, and my friends can host a Team Fortress 2 server.

And, from my experience, the ratio of racist, homophobic smack talking 14 year olds is noticeably worse.

And this all applies to the best online experience consoles have to offer, one that you must pay a monthly fee for.

So again, I know I'm almost certainly in a minority, but even if the Stream, or whatever they end up calling it, has an archaic online infrastructure, it won't influence my purchasing decision.

 

[sphinx]

I understand that this is a very real concern for a lot of people, but it's just so beyond my experience it's hard to relate.

In all honesty I really couldn't care less about console online gaming. I do all my online gaming on PC, despite owning all 3 current gen systems.

Console online is, without exception, a worse experience.

Fewer concurrent players, being forced to buy map packs that you'd get for free on PC, enjoyment-ruining exploits and glitches taking far longer to patch because they must go through a convoluted bureaucratic approval process, and when you're lucky enough to not be scammed into paying for P2P multiplayer the third parties take down the servers 2 years later and your game becomes unplayable.

Meanwhile, I can go and play Age Of Empires II with friends right now if I want, and my friends can host a Team Fortress 2 server.

And, from my experience, the ratio of racist, homophobic smack talking 14 year olds is noticeably worse.

And this all applies to the best online experience consoles have to offer, one that you must pay a monthly fee for.

So again, I know I'm almost certainly in a minority, but even if the Stream, or whatever they end up calling it, has an archaic online infrastructure, it won't influence my purchasing decision.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you....for posting this.

I don't know why is it so hard for a forum with wise gamers like Neogaf to grasp this. Going online on consoles is so extremely consumer unfriendly that I don't know why would anyone defend the practice.

Particularly the constant bitching about the bad nintendo online experience as opossed to the OMG, never-before seen, super fabulous PS360 experience is downright silly and I am not just talking about the actual online gameplay but the shops, the fees, the rape prices.

PC pisses all over them, all together.

 

[From The Dust]

The point isn't pc has better online. That's obvious. Shit still needs to be fixed whether PC is gaming is better or not

 

[Wolves Evolve]

The Sam Kennedy statement about it being likely that you'll still want to play COD on the other consoles is very telling. I think it indicates that the controller choices will not be remotely like a standard dual shock, or that the online services won't be ramped up as much as we think.

 

[Caramello]

The Sam Kennedy statement about it being likely that you'll still want to play COD on the other consoles is very telling. I think it indicates that the controller choices will not be remotely like a standard dual shock, or that the online services won't be ramped up as much as we think.

Honestly I think its just that the community is on the other consoles, people like to play with their friends

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Honestly I think its just that the community is on the other consoles, people like to play with their friends

Probably. That could be one of the biggest obstacles Nintendo face - can they "dislodge" those users and draw them to their platform (and do they want to?)

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Honestly I think its just that the community is on the other consoles, people like to play with their friends

I get what you're saying but it makes no sense to comment on it like that in his context. I believe its something else, something that would turn off hardcore gamers. This would fit the idea of it having a "wii vibe".

 

[EDarkness]

Probably. That could be one of the biggest obstacles Nintendo face - can they "dislodge" those users and draw them to their platform (and do they want to?)

I don't think they need to take them all, just a percentage of them. If the new system is badass enough, there will be a certain number of converts. I think the key is ultimately keep them happy with new releases and such. I think I could convince my friends to jump over (they like IR gaming) if there are enough games and if they're the best version that transition is even easier.

 

[From The Dust]

The Sam Kennedy statement about it being likely that you'll still want to play COD on the other consoles is very telling. I think it indicates that the controller choices will not be remotely like a standard dual shock, or that the online services won't be ramped up as much as we think.

That's kinda hard to say as we don't fully know abou the online system. Maybe the controller. But just maybe

 

[AceBandage]

I get what you're saying but it makes no sense to comment on it like that in his context. I believe its something else, something that would turn off hardcore gamers. This would fit the idea of it having a "wii vibe".

Actually, Wii Vibe was in reference to things like Miis and Nintendo Channels. Which doesn't turn off hardcore gamers.... just Amir0xs....
<_<

 

[charlequin]

I think we'll have to disagree -- I like a system in which both sides have to request, and I dislike a system in which I get random friend invites.

The vast majority of consumers are not interested in having their lives made harder because of a tiny group of people whose preferences about social and networking systems are borne out of a desire to not really have such features in the first place. You would be better served just turning the wifi off on your future Nintendo systems and pretending it's not there than trying to give cover to Nintendo on their greatest area of systemic ignorance and incompetence.

It doesn't work like that. It's not just that people are "fine" with it, it's that not forcing people to register an account and stopping random people adding you as friends are genuine advantages of the current system which make it more inclusive.

The former is at best a minor advantage, and one eked out at immense cost (i.e. ruining the DD store and drastically reducing the utility of online for people with multipe systems.) The latter is not an advantage; any system can include the option to let people enter some kind of Old Person mode where they don't interact with some or all of the online features of the console independent of whether the system uses a good (account-based) or bad (code-based) identification system.

So? Screw those people. They don't know want they want.

Impolitic, but substantively correct. Nintendo should not cater to whatever minuscule audience exists that affirmatively wants to play online (a high-end core feature) but is incapable of (or unwilling to) engage with basic gatekeeping mechanics like account creation that are common to, like, every single website in 2011.

 

[devildog820]

Judging by the amount of people signing up for accounts on obvious scammer websites, I would say that no one has a problem signing up for an account any more.