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[NemesisPrime]

If the USB throughput rumor a while back was true, all MS has to do is disable one of the USB ports in order to reduce the data propagation time by a factor of 2.

It is true. The PC SDK can use the full bandwidth.

But MS cannot just disable an USB port on current 360... that might give many, many problems with peopel that have stuff connected. I don't see it happening on 360 but it will certainly happen on next gen Kinect (probably with some minor hardware updates for Kinect).

 

[wonderfuldays]

It really doesn't work that way though. If, say, Sony and Microsoft come out a year or two after Wii HD and they're utilizing a true generational leap of tech from PS3/360, and Nintendo is stuck with, say, only somewhat more powerful than PS3/360, but still in that same generation, then porting is again going to become immensely difficult. It is not merely a matter of being in HD. Sure, they will be able to handle some more of the scale of the generational gap, but again, there will be huge limitations inherent in a platform that far behind the competitors. It's always one step so far, and then there's perceptional gap of once more just being ancient.

That said. If we consider MS will design next XBOX with DX12 technology and it could be just expand same shader way to generate graphics. And Wii HD can do shader things even with DX11 tessellation supported/compatibility. I don't see the problem will be huge if the port will be just slightly downgrade little bit to Wii HD.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I have one little question... To those people that think the console will be one (or almost one) full generation ahead of 360 and PS3 AND that it will cost 299$... how?

To be one generation ahead doesn't mean it has double the ram, it'd have to have at least 4gigs, 6-core CPU, some almost-DX12 GPU and all those things than we expect from XB720 and PS4. And how do people expect Nintendo to do something like that and sell it for 299 or even 399? I must remind everyone that both the Wii and the 3DS have been 250€ at launch. I really don't expect Nintendo to sell a console any higher than that as long as it keeps working for them. And with the huge profit margins that Nintendo works with, how would anyone think that the console will be a full generation ahead of what we have now?

What I personally expect, trying to see through the media hype, is something like the jump from 3DS to PSP. So it would be a fairly powerful console that can easily handle any and every port and multiplatform titles, but like the Xbox, would suffer from being "almost" the same and not being a true step forward. I would be reaaally surprised if it doesn't end up being like this.

No one sane expects this thing to be a generation ahead of the 360/PS3.

 

[Nirolak]

Whoops. I got it as PS360-to-Wii2. I edited my post too, btw

Yeah, I definitely agree with you that Nintendo normally releases pretty powerful hardware.

That's why I think we could actually end up with a pretty solid console, since they really must know by now that they need hardware power that is at least in range of the other consoles to have the possibility of third party support.

They have a lot of cash now as well, so they are in a much more favorable situation to selling a relatively low margin console at first than coming off the GameCube.

 

[AniHawk]

I have one little question... To those people that think the console will be one (or almost one) full generation ahead of 360 and PS3 AND that it will cost 299$... how?

To be one generation ahead doesn't mean it has double the ram, it'd have to have at least 4gigs, 6-core CPU, some almost-DX12 GPU and all those things than we expect from XB720 and PS4.

they'd probably sit on some current powerful-yet-efficient technology for about a year like they did with the gamecube so it's affordable for everyone when it launches.

the big difference is that they're going first. they have never done that for their consoles (unless you go back to the 80s). this means they have to have a really serious attempt to recruit anyone and everyone. they can't see what their competitors are doing and adjust accordingly.

 

[TheOddOne]

Ohh snap.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Yeah, I definitely agree with you that Nintendo normally releases pretty powerful hardware.

That's why I think we could actually end up with a pretty solid console, since they really must know by now that they need hardware power that is at least in range of the other consoles to even have the possibility of third party support.

DS,Wii, 3DS. Nintendo haven't released powerful hardware in 7 years and they've also been their most successful years ever.

 

[Jocchan]

Yeah, I definitely agree with you that Nintendo normally releases pretty powerful hardware.

That's why I think we could actually end up with a pretty solid console, since they really must know by now that they need hardware power that is at least in range of the other consoles to have the possibility of third party support.

They have a lot of cash now as well, so they are in a much more favorable situation to selling a relatively low margin console at first than coming off the GameCube.

I agree
I also believe they'll aim for a $300 retail price this time around. A relatively small increase from the Wii, and more than the 3DS launch price.

DS,Wii, 3DS. Nintendo haven't released powerful hardware in 7 years and they've also been their most successful years ever.

Wrong. The Wii is the only example of underpowered hardware. Both DS and 3DS are consistent with their handheld strategy. If anything, the 3DS is actually more powerful than what they usually do (it should have been a castrated portable GC, in some ways it's a Wii+).

 

[Nirolak]

DS,Wii, 3DS. Nintendo haven't released powerful hardware in 7 years and they've also been their most successful years ever.

The current situation for both the Wii and 3DS doesn't look so great though.

That and what Jocchan mentioned.

 

[Screenboy]

not sure about a screen on the controller, how are they gunna cost £/$40 rrp?

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I agree
I also believe they'll aim for a $300 retail price this time around. A relatively small increase from the Wii, and more than the 3DS launch price.

heck by fall 2012 the 3ds may even be 200 making it a reasonable 100 less than the new console. lol

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I agree
I also believe they'll aim for a $300 retail price this time around. A relatively small increase from the Wii, and more than the 3DS launch price.


Wrong. The Wii is the only example of underpowered hardware. Both DS and 3DS are consistent with their handheld strategy.

The 3DS shows they're not afraid to charge what they think the market will pay, they could get away with 349.99 for a "next generation console". In fact, I'd happily stomach 399 if it meant a more powerful console.

But I think 299 is likely, yes.

 

[watershed]

I remember the rumors about the wii being "significantly more powerful" than the gamecube and look how that turned out. This thing will be significantly more powerful than the wii for sure but people expecting Nintendo to do a philosophical 180 are gonna be disappointed. Unfortunately that means I'm gonna be disappointed too

 

[Dystify]

Could it just be an external screen similar to iPad looks-wise, but simply streaming data over the console to it? I can hardly imagine HD screens in each controller, unless they are very small or the controller is huge.

 

[Nirolak]

I remember the rumors about the wii being "significantly more powerful" than the gamecube and look how that turned out. This thing will be significantly more powerful than the wii for sure but people expecting Nintendo to do a philosophical 180 are gonna be disappointed. Unfortunately that means I'm gonna be disappointed too

I think selling a $250 handheld and launching it with no major Nintendo games, choosing to bank on third parties instead is probably already a philosophical 180.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I hope this time we will get some new nintendo titles not based on preexisting franchises as well as a new sat fox, f zero, pilotwings and a REAL sequel to super Mario 64

 

[ThatObviousUser]

WTF how did I miss this thread? Nintendo finally man up don't they?

Did you miss the 3DS?

 

[Mr_Brit]

I agree
I also believe they'll aim for a $300 retail price this time around. A relatively small increase from the Wii, and more than the 3DS launch price.


Wrong. The Wii is the only example of underpowered hardware. Both DS and 3DS are consistent with their handheld strategy. If anything, the 3DS is actually more powerful than what they usually do (it should have been a castrated portable GC, in some ways it's a Wii+).

I'm not talking about Nintendo's strategy but their position in the market compared to other devices. DS, Wii and 3DS have all been underpowered devices. No one in the know with regards to hardware would consider the 3DS any kind of heavy pusher.

I think selling a $250 handheld and launching it with no major Nintendo games, choosing to bank on third parties instead is probably already a philosophical 180.

You're wayyyyyyyyyyy too early to declare the 3DS a relative failure already, I'm sure even Nintendo haven;t declared it a failure yet. Let's atleast give it a year on the market before doing so.

 

[AniHawk]

I agree
I also believe they'll aim for a $300 retail price this time around. A relatively small increase from the Wii, and more than the 3DS launch price.


Wrong. The Wii is the only example of underpowered hardware. Both DS and 3DS are consistent with their handheld strategy. If anything, the 3DS is actually more powerful than what they usually do (it should have been a castrated portable GC, in some ways it's a Wii+).

well technically they missed a step in the mid 90s when the virtual boy failed as a replacement to the game boy and pokemon unexpectedly revived the system. they basically lost a generation there.

 

[Mailenstein]

All that together sounds too much, when you consider the maximum ¥25.000 Nintendo price tag. I wonder how much will be true tho.

 

[Jocchan]

The 3DS shows they're not afraid to charge what they think the market will pay, they could get away with 349.99 for a "next generation console". In fact, I'd happily stomach 399 if it meant a more powerful console.

But I think 299 is likely, yes.

I agree. Crossing the 300 bar seems unlikely if they want to sell their console quickly to the mass market, but so did the 200 bar for the 3DS and we all know how that went.

well technically they missed a step in the mid 90s when the virtual boy failed as a replacement to the game boy and pokemon unexpectedly revived the system. they basically lost a generation there.

Watching screenshots of Virtual Boy games on the 3DS is oddly funny.

 

[Branduil]

I think we're looking at a 3DS-like system, which still isn't powerful enough for those that slobber over the PSP2. I can't imagine Nintendo changing their philosophy on hardware between their handheld and their home console, considering the 3DS just came out as an example of what they're thinking with hardware.

I mean, there's a thread speculating "how PSP2 games will play" as if it doesn't have pretty much the exact same inputs as a PS3 with comparable power. I dunno, they'll probably play like PS3 games. I can't imagine the Wii 2 will satiate these people. Not to mention, you're still looking at a compromised online space, albeit improving.

Nintendo said they wanted to get "the hardcore" back with the 3DS, but then PSP2 came, even bigger and more powerful, and stole away the imaginations of some people without even showing a game. Ultimately, games are what will matter, but if you're looking to hardware, I find it hard to believe that Nintendo will be that cutting edge. It's not playing out in the handheld space, and they just released their latest hardware.

It's going to be all about the first year. Sony and MS will be able to release more powerful systems, but if Nintendo has built up a hardcore base by then, they've already won.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I think we're looking at a 3DS-like system, which still isn't powerful enough for those that slobber over the PSP2. I can't imagine Nintendo changing their philosophy on hardware between their handheld and their home console, considering the 3DS just came out as an example of what they're thinking with hardware.

I mean, there's a thread speculating "how PSP2 games will play" as if it doesn't have pretty much the exact same inputs as a PS3 with comparable power. I dunno, they'll probably play like PS3 games. I can't imagine the Wii 2 will satiate these people. Not to mention, you're still looking at a compromised online space, albeit improving.

Nintendo said they wanted to get "the hardcore" back with the 3DS, but then PSP2 came, even bigger and more powerful, and stole away the imaginations of some people without even showing a game. Ultimately, games are what will matter, but if you're looking to hardware, I find it hard to believe that Nintendo will be that cutting edge. It's not playing out in the handheld space, and they just released their latest hardware.

To be fair, even if it is a 3DS in comparison to the other consoles, it seems that the 3DS can run Street Fighter IV, Resident Evil 5 (allegedly), and other "next-gen" games. So even being a 3DS in comparison to a NGP, it would still be able to share games.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess that Nintendo doesn't want to launch a console that looks like technological garbage next to 2012 or 2013's iPad, especially if their controller is part tablet.

That requires a pretty significant piece of technology.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

All that together sounds too much, when you consider the maximum ¥25.000 Nintendo price tag. I wonder how much will be true tho.

you mean like the maximum ¥20.000 price tag for handhelds?

 

[Mailenstein]

you mean like the maximum ¥20.000 price tag for handhelds?

I just know about their company "rule" of launching any device at a max. price tag of ¥25.000.

 

[ULTROS!]

I'm wondering what's the cost of this system.

I'm guessing... $349-$399?

 

[Risk Breaker]

they'd probably sit on some current powerful-yet-efficient technology for about a year like they did with the gamecube so it's affordable for everyone when it launches.

the big difference is that they're going first. they have never done that for their consoles (unless you go back to the 80s). this means they have to have a really serious attempt to recruit anyone and everyone. they can't see what their competitors are doing and adjust accordingly.

Yeah, those are my concerns. I know they are perfectly capable of delivering a hardware than can run every multiplatform game with better textures, more AA, better resolution and better framerate than on the other two, but will that be enough? Now that a lot of developers are starting to get really used to the hardware and releasing a TON of awesome games that look crazy good even after 5 years, will the presumed difference in performance be enough to get developers to get the most out of the system? And if it does, will people feel that the difference is big enough to throw their 360/PS3 and their huge library out of the windows and play something not radically different on the new Nintendo?

I sincerely hope for a powerful enough Nintendo console, something that will make devs get wet for it, create games for its specs and then downscale for the other consoles, and not the other way around. Even if only to get MS and Sony to release the kraken and go all out next-gen. I don't want an XB540 or PS3.2 and this would help.

 

[watershed]

I'm not talking about Nintendo's strategy but their position in the market compared to other devices. DS, Wii and 3DS have all been underpowered devices. No one in the know with regards to hardware would consider the 3DS any kind of heavy pusher.

This. The 3ds may be a generation up on the ds but if the NGP is as powerful as it looks then the 3ds is still lacking in power compared to its competition. I imagine this new console will be the same in this regard, a generation up on the wii but still trailing (maybe significantly) the competition.

 

[Mr_Brit]

It's going to be all about the first year. Sony and MS will be able to release more powerful systems, but if Nintendo has built up a hardcore base by then, they've already won.

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system since:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

 

[Dystify]

I just know about their company "rule" of launching any device at a max. price tag of ¥25.000.

There will never be a "maximum price-tag" as there are things such as inflation, a hugely changed market with higher demand, etc.

I think Nintendo has been too scared to release a hardware for too much which is where the ¥25.000 maximum price-tag originated from. Times have changed, though. They're in a much better position than years ago and the market grew a lot.

 

[gofreak]

The screen stuff is interesting but I can't help but think of GBA/Gamecube connectivity a little bit.

I wonder if it really is HD, if it'll allow for local 'remote play'.

 

[Freezie KO]

It's going to be all about the first year. Sony and MS will be able to release more powerful systems, but if Nintendo has built up a hardcore base by then, they've already won.

Yeah. I mean, they could be the PS2 to the XBox and GC.

Or they could be the Dreamcast. Not that they'd completely go under, but from my recollection, DC actually had a decent size install base. It just wasn't supported by some major players (EA), and then everyone jumped to the PS2.

To be fair, even if it is a 3DS in comparison to the other consoles, it seems that the 3DS can run Street Fighter IV, Resident Evil 5 (allegedly), and other "next-gen" games. So even being a 3DS in comparison to a NGP, it would still be able to share games.

Well, compromises were definitely made. SF4 has no moving backgrounds, for example. Still, the 3DS path is more than enough for me. I just wonder about their goals of recapturing the hardcore and, specifically, impressing people on this forum.

 

[herod]

is it possible that the controller is just going to look like the bottom half of a 3DS?

 

[Jocchan]

I'm not talking about Nintendo's strategy but their position in the market compared to other devices. DS, Wii and 3DS have all been underpowered devices. No one in the know with regards to hardware would consider the 3DS any kind of heavy pusher.

That's because both Sony and Apple have been pushing tech even further, not because of Nintendo holding back intentionally on DS and, especially, 3DS. But I guess this argument depends on your point of view.

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system since:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

I'm sorry, are you considering these assumptions facts now?

 

[EDarkness]

I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess that Nintendo doesn't want to launch a console that looks like technological garbage next to 2012 or 2013's iPad, especially if their controller is part tablet.

That requires a pretty significant piece of technology.

I'm hoping this is the case as well. They have to be thinking 3-4 years ahead for this one. At least I hope they are.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

True, but if 720/PS4 come out a year or even two after the Wii2, it won't necessarily mean they're that much more advanced.

No, it won't necessarily, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft and Sony won't go with just a modest bump over their current consoles, whereas it doesn't seem like Wii2 will represent a generational leap over them. Without those Blu-ray costs, PS3 would have broken even ages ago. Without RRoD issues, Microsoft would now be much closer to Wii in terms of WW install base. In addition to that, PS3 and Xbox 360 will probably remain relevant as low cost machines for several more years, whereas I don't see Wii lasting that long.

So with some modifications, it makes sense for Sony and Microsoft to continue with the same approach they've been using this gen. And let's not forget that mobile devices represent another threat; with yearly hardware revisions, they could catch up rather quickly with machines that are just slightly stronger than current HD consoles.

Nintendo will do what they've been doing for some time now: offer a slight bump in hardware power over the current console high-end with an interesting new twist and hope it sticks. They'll want it to be profitable from the get go so if a few years from now competition does catch up, they'll just announce their next machine. No big losses in either case.

Anyway, speculating is fun, but it's completely useless at this point. We just don't have enough information to make any reasonable assumptions.

 

[Mr_Brit]

That's because both Sony and Apple have been pushing tech even further, not because of Nintendo holding back intentionally on DS and, especially, 3DS. But I guess this argument depends on your point of view.

Wow. I can't believe someone holds that point of view. Nintendo have been massively holding back on the 3DS compared to what they could do. I suggest you do some reading up if you seriously believe that.

BTW: 'My point of view' is that of the hardware industry and where it's at, I don't pull the stuff I say out of the air but get it from reading the views of people in the know about hardware.

 

[AniHawk]

This. The 3ds may be a generation up on the ds but if the NGP is as powerful as it looks then the 3ds is still lacking in power compared to its competition. I imagine this new console will be the same in this regard, a generation up on the wii but still trailing (maybe significantly) the competition.

what happened with the gb's long lifespan was more or less an accident. what nintendo did with the wii was on purpose. i really doubt they're going to make consoles one generation behind from now on just because.

at worst, i'd expect the equivalent of the dreamcast.

 

[MYE]

is it possible that the controller is just going to look like the bottom half of a 3DS?

I hope not. I dont want to go back to the "two hands holding one piece of plastic" setup

Keep my arms/hands free, nintendo.

 

[GDGF]

I remember the rumors about the wii being "significantly more powerful" than the gamecube and look how that turned out.

I remember a Nintendo higher up (pretty sure it was Perrin Kaplan) stating before the first games were shown that the Wii would only be 2 to 3 times more powerful than the Gamecube. Unfortunately pretty much everybody chose to ignore her.


As an aside I'm kind of shocked by that hip hop gamer report. I would like to believe what he heard about Nintendo's online plans


http://blip.tv/file/4910590

 

[Skiesofwonder]

IGN with an update:

A report from CVG states the new Nintendo console will use an all-new controller - not an updated Wii controller - with sources saying it will have a built-in screen. Additional sources informed IGN the screen has touch capability.

Screen is touch screen. We all figured as much, but still nice to hear.

Edit: Going by the thead title I'm guessing this was already posted lol. Sorry, been writing a paper and it's 5:00 AM here. I need some sleep!

 

[Shake Appeal]

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system since:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

All of this and more.

MS/Sony take a long, hard look at it and then leapfrog the tech once again, likely with far better services including online, and with the motion gimmick looking like an increasingly level playing field.

What's more, third-party devs and pubs are going to be wary as fuck of this system.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm pleasantly surprised Nintendo decided to go this route. Sure, some may think it was a no-brainer, but after the success of the Wii, I thought simply doubling the RAM would be expecting too much. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[TheOddOne]

No, it won't necessarily, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft and Sony won't go with just a modest bump over their current consoles, whereas it doesn't seem like Wii2 will represent a generational leap over them. Without those Blu-ray costs, PS3 would have broken even ages ago. Without RRoD issues, Microsoft would now be much closer to Wii in terms of WW install base. In addition to that, PS3 and Xbox 360 will probably remain relevant as low cost machines for several more years, whereas I don't see Wii lasting that long.

So with some modifications, it makes sense for Sony and Microsoft to continue with the same approach they've been using this gen. And let's not forget that mobile devices represent another threat; with yearly hardware revisions, they could catch up rather quickly with machines that are just slightly stronger than current HD consoles.

Nintendo will do what they've been doing for some time now: offer a slight bump in hardware power over the current console high-end with an interesting new twist and hope it sticks. They'll want it to be profitable from the get go so if a few years from now competition does catch up, they'll just announce their next machine. No big losses in either case.

Anyway, speculating is fun, but it's completely useless at this point. We just don't have enough information to make any reasonable assumptions.

No offense, but I find this a little amusing. Wii was a phenomenon that on day one was selling like hotcakes, the 360 wasn't.

 

[herod]

I hope not. I dont want to go back to the "two hands holding one piece of plastic" setup

Keep my arms/hands free, nintendo.

how on earth do you envisage a touchscreen with breakapart controller working?

 

[Branduil]

Yeah. I mean, they could be the PS2 to the XBox and GC.

Or they could be the Dreamcast. Not that they'd completely go under, but from my recollection, DC actually had a decent size install base. It just wasn't supported by some major players (EA), and then everyone jumped to the PS2.

Dreamcast only sold 10 million consoles.

It won't be like that, simply because Nintendo is not in a horrible spot like Sega was. Worst-case scenario is another Gamecube, but with more casual sales due to the Wii.

 

[megateto]

This isn't the first time lherre has done this.

He's not trustworthy.

Really? As far as I remember he's been pretty much spot on on a series of issues, such as things involving Castlevania and GT5...
In fact, he's been really good friends with duckroll, so I really think you should have a chat with him and reconsider his ban, or at least the "he's not trustworthy" line...

 

[MYE]

how on earth do you envisage a touchscreen with breakapart controller working?

I have no idea. I'm a consumer, i just ask for shit to happen

 

[Jocchan]

Wow. I can't believe someone holds that point of view. Nintendo have been massively holding back on the 3DS compared to what they could do. I suggest you do some reading up if you seriously believe that.

I'm aware of what can be done, and I'm also aware of what is financially viable to be done for a certain target market. Tech doesn't exist in a vacuum, you know

BTW: 'My point of view' is that of the hardware industry and where it's at, I don't pull the stuff I say out of the air but get it from reading the views of people in the know about hardware.

Then, could you please explain this post?

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system since:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

What I see here are assumptions treated as facts. Can we just wait till we know more (read: anything at all) before deciding the fate of this console?