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[watershed]

what happened with the gb's long lifespan was more or less an accident. what nintendo did with the wii was on purpose. i really doubt they're going to make consoles one generation behind from now on just because.

at worst, i'd expect the equivalent of the dreamcast.

No I don't think they'll hold it back just because but I think it might have to do with hardware cost, targeting a large mainstream audience that doesn't salivate over specs, high development costs (something Nintendo has talked a lot about), and Nintendo's dedication to turning a profit day 1.

Also the dreamcast is a bad equivalent. It went away pretty quickly. Hopefully its a ps2 compared to xbox and gamecube type situation.

 

[Mr_Brit]

That's because both Sony and Apple have been pushing tech even further, not because of Nintendo holding back intentionally on DS and, especially, 3DS. But I guess this argument depends on your point of view.


I'm sorry, are you considering these assumptions facts now?

Huh? They're very clearly assumptions considering we don't know anything about the next MS/Sony systems. Let me make it a bit clearer:

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system due to what I assume will happen:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

 

[Erasus]

Sounds like a new Dreamcast? Sort of in-between generations? Or will this kickstart a new generation of consoles?

I wonder what the specs will be. And really if this thing was not more powerful than the PS3 I would be suprised.

The PS3/360 has 2005 hardware in them. 2005. Try using a comp from 05 to play 2010 games on

 

[Jocchan]

Huh? They're very clearly assumptions considering we don't know anything about the next MS/Sony systems. Let me make it a bit clearer:

I really can't see the COD/Halo/Mass Effect/GTA crowd moving to this system due to what I assume will happen:

1)Similar graphic levels to PS3/360, not a full generational leap like the next MS/Sony systems
2)Most likely be a gimped online infrastructure, no one is going to downgrade from Live/PSN to friend codes
3)It will take at least a year for the big Western hitters to hit the system and by then the next MS/Sony systems with a generational leap in graphics and online infrastructure will be out
4) Unorthodox controller design might put people off especially if Sony/MS reveal their next consoles before this system comes out with more traditional controllers.

Fine then

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I wonder if the controller screen will be in 3D... would that spike the cost? I mean we're already talking like $70+ controllers here...

 

[sphinx]

I wonder if the Dreamcast would be able to handle resident evil 4 or a grand theft auto or such. if yeah, then no problem for a Wii2 being stuck halfway through a generation.

 

[Monty Mole]

Sounds like a new Dreamcast? Sort of in-between generations? Or will this kickstart a new generation of consoles?

I wonder what the specs will be. And really if this thing was not more powerful than the PS3 I would be suprised.

The PS3/360 has 2005 hardware in them. 2005. Try using a comp from 05 to play 2010 games on

You're forgetting that the Wii - a 2006 console - still can't match some of the graphics produced by Xbox in 2001.

I personally don't care how powerful Wii 2 is, as long as it's HD. I want Nintendo games and I want them in HD.

 

[Mailenstein]

There will never be a "maximum price-tag" as there are things such as inflation, a hugely changed market with higher demand, etc.

I think Nintendo has been too scared to release a hardware for too much which is where the ¥25.000 maximum price-tag originated from. Times have changed, though. They're in a much better position than years ago and the market grew a lot.

Well, there always has been this maximum price tag. No Nintendo device has ever seen a price tag above ¥25.000.

Also I don't see all this coming for their next home console, because of one thing: blue ocean strategy.

They've started it with the NDS, continued successfully with the Wii and the 3DS. You guys are expecting a Yamauchi type of Nintendo console, but that thing will only be slightly better than the PS360 consoles. I just don't believe that they will dive into the red ocean again. That would make absolutely no sense, especially not after the GDC speech by Iwata.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I remember a Nintendo higher up (pretty sure it was Perrin Kaplan) stating before the first games were shown that the Wii would only be 2 to 3 times more powerful than the Gamecube. Unfortunately pretty much everybody chose to ignore her.

Sure, but let's not also forget those renders released with ATI and Nintendo Revolution logos that look significantly better than what even today's high-end PCs are able to accomplish.

No offense, but I find this a little amusing. Wii was a phenomenon that on day one was selling like hotcakes, the 360 wasn't.

So you think Xbox 360 sales wouldn't have been better if they weren't being held back by the biggest consumer electronics fuck-up of all time?

 

[Shake Appeal]

What I see here are assumptions treated as facts. Can we just wait till we know more (read: anything at all) before deciding the fate of this console?

They're closer to presumptions on the basis of Nintendo's entire strategy for the last ten years or so. Looking at everything that have or haven't done in that time, it is reasonable to presume that Nintendo are going to make a machine that isn't above all affordable and profitable, and so likely doesn't considerably outpace the 360/PS3. It is reasonable to presume they don't, and won't, care much about online or accompanying services. It is reasonable to presume that Western developers and publishers will be slow and cautious about putting 'core' games out on it in an unsettled transitional period when the last two Nintendo consoles have burned them badly. And it is extremely reasonable to presume that 'core' gamers are averse to motion control.

 

[AniHawk]

I wonder if the Dreamcast would be able to handle resident evil 4 or a grand theft auto or such. if yeah, then no problem for a Wii2 being stuck halfway through a generation.

well they made a version for mid-00s cell phones, so probably.

 

[MYE]

You're forgetting that the Wii - a 2006 console - still can't match some of the graphics produced by Xbox in 2001.

Not this shit again

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I wonder if the controller screen will be in 3D... would that spike the cost? I mean we're already talking like $70+ controllers here...

3d would seem a bit odd unless they want a good deal of your focus away from the tv combine that with rumors of it being a touch screen and it seems like a venture nintendo wouldn't want to take.

 

[Phonomezer]

Sounds like a new Dreamcast? Sort of in-between generations? Or will this kickstart a new generation of consoles?

New generation. Contrary to whatever Sony may say, a new generation doesn't begin whenever they say so

 

[Graphics Horse]

The screen stuff is interesting but I can't help but think of GBA/Gamecube connectivity a little bit.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, especially as it would let you use a touch screen surface to control your tv.
Question is whether the controller would have any kind of processing power, or just display simple images as sent by the system.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I don't think Sony or MS can really do what we've come to expect as a "generational leap" over a Super Wii assuming the SWii is 2-3x more powerful than the PS3 or 360. How much power are those suckah's gonna' drain? The 200 watts of the PS3/360 created large problems for Microsoft (with it's inadequate cooling solution) and increased costs on the PS3/made it huge.

If we upgrade to 300W, they're going to be larger than PS3/360 and have more expensive cooling solutions. At 300W, they will be approximately half the TDP of average modern gaming PCs, circa 2011, which run 500-700 W typically. PC's can take it, because they have monster power supplies, are significantly larger and more roomy than PS3/360, and have associated beefier cooling solutions.

Brain_Stew can probably give a more accurate rundown since I'm just regurgitating what I've read around from people, but I think Nintendo is actually really well placed to launch in 2012 with something 3x more powerful than the PS3, that will get them to the race early and leave them only 30-40% less powerful than their competitors, a PS2-XBOX style situation again.

 

[Erasus]

You're forgetting that the Wii - a 2006 console - still can't match some of the graphics produced by Xbox in 2001.

I should have clarified, I meant hardware that was cutting edge (sort of) in 04/05. Sure the Wii is made in 2006, but that does not mean that it has new hardware from 06 inside of it...

 

[watershed]

I agree with the thinking that this new console won't be an amazing graphical leap over the ps3 and 360 but also that its main draw won't be the graphics. Nintendo will have some unique features or control scheme that is meant to sell the system. It may be the "HD screen" on the controller or something we don't know yet, but imo the graphics won't be mind blowing.

However, seeing classic Nintendo IP's in HD will be mind blowing! About time.

 

[EDarkness]

What's more, third-party devs and pubs are going to be wary as fuck of this system.

Why is that?

 

[Vinci]

It is reasonable to presume that Western developers and publishers will be slow and cautious about putting 'core' games out on it in an unsettled transitional period when the last two Nintendo consoles have burned them badly.

This is a laughable statement.

 

[AniHawk]

They're closer to presumptions on the basis of Nintendo's entire strategy for the last ten years or so. Looking at everything that have or haven't done in that time, it is reasonable to presume that Nintendo are going to make a machine that isn't above all affordable and profitable, and so likely doesn't considerably outpace the 360/PS3. It is reasonable to presume they don't, and won't, care much about online or accompanying services. It is reasonable to presume that Western developers and publishers will be slow and cautious about putting 'core' games out on it in an unsettled transitional period when the last two Nintendo consoles have burned them badly. And it is extremely reasonable to presume that 'core' gamers are averse to motion control.

considering their attempts to fix past mistakes with third parties, it's easy to presume they'll do the same here.

problem: the n64 had expensive carts
solution: gamecube has discs

problem: gamecube discs were too small, plus, very concentrated (small) userbase
solution: dvds and going after a larger userbase

problem: yeah well that system was too underpowered to port games to
solution: ???

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think Sony or MS can really do what we've come to expect as a "generational leap" over a Super Wii assuming the SWii is 2-3x more powerful than the PS3 or 360. How much power are those suckah's gonna' drain? The 200 watts of the PS3/360 created large problems for Microsoft (with it's inadequate cooling solution) and increased costs on the PS3/made it huge.

If we upgrade to 300W, they're going to be larger than PS3/360 and have more expensive cooling solutions. At 300W, they will be approximately half the TDP of average modern gaming PCs, circa 2011, which run 500-700 W typically. PC's can take it, because they have monster power supplies, are significantly larger and more roomy than PS3/360, and have associated beefier cooling solutions.

Brain_Stew can probably give a more accurate rundown since I'm just regurgitating what I've read around from people, but I think Nintendo is actually really well placed to launch in 2012 with something 3x more powerful than the PS3, that will get them to the race early and leave them only 30-40% less powerful than their competitors, a PS2-XBOX style situation again.

What Nintendo basically has to do, if their goal is to appeal to the "hardcore" again, is to just try and keep the tech in the same ballpark as the PS4/720 so they get more third-party support.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

This HD touch screen on the controller has really thrown me for a loop.

I mean is it possible that this console could be a hybrid between home/portable console? Is that even feasible? And wouldn't that eat into the sales of the 3DS/DS?

 

[storl026]

So additional controllers could be like $99.99, right?

 

[Gouty]

So you think Xbox 360 sales wouldn't have been better if they weren't being held back by the biggest consumer electronics fuck-up of all time?

Wait what was the biggest consumer electronics fuck-up of all time again?

 

[Mr_Brit]

This is a laughable statement.

No, that's a laughable statement. Most of the big western devs will be very cautious and probbably not experiment very much if at all with this new console. I'm sure they'll give it a better try than they did for DS/Wii/3DS but don't expect any miracles in regards to the quality of software they will put out.

 

[Vinci]

This HD touch screen on the controller has really thrown for a loop.

I mean is it possible that this console could be hybrid between home/portable console? Is that even feasible? And wouldn't that eat into the sales of the 3DS/DS?

It's safe to assume that Nintendo has no intention of killing its own handheld, so I'm going to assume that the new system's controllers will not - in any fashion - put the 3DS to shame.

No, that's a laughable statement. Most of the big western devs will be very cautious and probbably not experiment very much if at all with this new console. I'm sure they'll give it a better try than they did for DS/Wii/3DS but don't expect any miracles in regards to the quality of software they will put out.

It's a laughable statement to say that Western 3rd parties were burned by Nintendo's last two consoles when they never gave the slightest shit about them in the first place. What they got from the Wii audience, they deserved based on the horrid support and trash they threw onto the system.

Besides that, it's equally laughable because 3rd parties are desperate for any additional revenue. Ask EA how it's doing these days. Ask Activision is they're willing to bypass a system they could easily port their games to. You're kidding yourself if you think that's even an option.

I'm not expecting miracles - I'm expecting 3rd parties to continue their multiplatform strategy for the sake of revenue generation.

 

[Shake Appeal]

3x more powerful than the PS3

Okay, I'm out. See you all at E3.

 

[watershed]

This is a laughable statement.

I don't see what's so crazy about his statement. I think major western 3rd parties will be cautious about Nintendo's next console because of their experience with the wii. But this could be fixed with Nintendo showing the system to 3rd parties now and 2 amazing E3's before the system's launch.

 

[sphinx]

well they made a version for mid-00s cell phones, so probably.

lol

I meant a competent version of the game, kinda like the gimped PS2 version coming from a slightly more powerful gamecube.

if capcom does resident evil 7 for PS4/XBX720 and this new Wii HD can handle it, more or less "as is", then I don't mind it being somewhat inferior.

that being said, online, DLC or whatever makes the RE7 worth while should remain untouched and that will be nintendo's main challenge with this new hardware, not so much the raw graphics/power but the overall features and performance.

 

[Majanew]

I wonder what the specs will be. And really if this thing was not more powerful than the PS3 I would be suprised.

The PS3/360 has 2005 hardware in them. 2005. Try using a comp from 05 to play 2010 games on

It's Nintendo. The Wii came out 5 years after the GameCube and the Wii was slightly worse than even the PS2 in some specs. I'm surprised at the significantly better than PS3/360. I was expecting it to be on par with those two.


And the HD touchscreen controller sounds stupid for a console.

 

[perfectnight]

* Maybe it's my wonky eyes, but HD just doesn't work for me on a TV screen. Heck, I literally can't watch it for more than a few minutes before my eyes start watering. To me, HD is nothing less than a step backwards, and if I'm not impressed now, I'm never gonna be.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

3d would seem a bit odd unless they want a good deal of your focus away from the tv combine that with rumors of it being a touch screen and it seems like a venture nintendo wouldn't want to take.

It could be useful if they're planning to have the 3DS be entirely interoperable as a controller. But then again, these controllers will supposedly have a larger resolution than the 3DS, so who knows.

 

[Vinci]

Okay, I'm out. See you all at E3.

Um.. I didn't even say what you quoted. But okay, see you then!

 

[herod]

I guess the rise of tablets and the incoming Ivy Bridge level of technology mean the casual market is no longer any kind of gravy train for a company like Nintendo.

My guess is the DS/Wii warchest has been put to good use here. Nintendo need to stay relevant in the dedicated market when the blue oceans dry up.

 

[gofreak]

Not that there's anything wrong with that, especially as it would let you use a touch screen surface to control your tv.
Question is whether the controller would have any kind of processing power, or just display simple images as sent by the system.

If it had processing capability of its own - or a notable amount - then it's basically a handheld, right? Which might seem odd vs 3DS.

But I am wondering about other things. Like I wonder if it could have a camera. It could do much better AR using the home system's processing than 3DS, for example - assuming the controller->home system->controller latency was OK.

 

[Nirolak]

Really? As far as I remember he's been pretty much spot on on a series of issues, such as things involving Castlevania and GT5...
In fact, he's been really good friends with duckroll, so I really think you should have a chat with him and reconsider his ban, or at least the "he's not trustworthy" line...

My experience has been that he's very hit and miss due to his press sources having various accuracy.

However: support@neogaf.com

I promise, we really do read everything that goes here.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

No, that's a laughable statement. Most of the big western devs will be very cautious and probbably not experiment very much if at all with this new console. I'm sure they'll give it a better try than they did for DS/Wii/3DS but don't expect any miracles in regards to the quality of software they will put out.

The issue of experimentation isn't the important one here - it's about making sure that your console can fit into the development pipeline. Wii was damaged by being unable to get ports of major 360 games, or of having versions of 360 titles that were dramatically poorer. PS3, in spite of allegedly being a pain the arse to develop for initially, having awful sales for much of its early lifespan etc. got those ports simply by virture of being roughly in the same ballpark tech-wise and the relatively low costs of making it part of a multiplat strategy.

If Wii2 is using modern tech, can support modern engines and can fit into the dev pipeline with little added cost, it will get those third party titles, even if the PS4/NeXt-Box leap ahead of it tech-wise.

 

[watershed]

Is anybody else surprised that none of this started with a story from Nikkei or some other Japanese story? They usually get the first leak.

 

[brain_stew]

It really doesn't work that way though. If, say, Sony and Microsoft come out a year or two after Wii HD and they're utilizing a true generational leap of tech from PS3/360, and Nintendo is stuck with, say, only somewhat more powerful than PS3/360, but still in that same generation, then porting is again going to become immensely difficult. It is not merely a matter of being in HD. Sure, they will be able to handle some more of the scale of the generational gap, but again, there will be huge limitations inherent in a platform that far behind the competitors. It's always one step so far, and then there's perceptional gap of once more just being ancient.

As someone with a keen eye n developing graphics technology I just don't see how this scenario is really possible. So long as Nintendo aim for a modern 40-50w system at ~28nm and pack in at least 1GB of RAM then they'll handle the vast majority of ports from Microsoft and Sony's systems just fine.

Process shrinks are taking longer and longer, high end GPU power requirements are never going to be feasible for consoles ever again and after the RROD and PS3 cost disasters (both a direct consequence of the unrealistic TDP of launch hardware), the power draw of Sony and Microsoft's machines must come down. Heck, Sony just unveiled a new system comprising of years old off the shelf hardware, their desire to drive thecutting edge of technology is over.

 

[EDarkness]

No, that's a laughable statement. Most of the big western devs will be very cautious and probbably not experiment very much if at all with this new console. I'm sure they'll give it a better try than they did for DS/Wii/3DS but don't expect any miracles in regards to the quality of software they will put out.

I don't understand this. If the hardware is on par or better (more RAM especially), then I see no reason for 3rd Parties not to give it a shot. We all know that the next Sony, Microsoft system will have better specs, but if the only powerful console on the market is the Wii 2, then there are plenty of tech heads out there who would jump at the opportunity. That's not saying that they won't jump ship when the next big thing comes out, but if Nintendo gets a year or more ahead of the competition and the games sell well enough, they'll at least be getting ports because no one would want to leave money sitting on the table when porting will be easy enough.

 

[GDGF]

Sure, but let's not also forget those renders released with ATI and Nintendo Revolution logos that look significantly better than what even today's high-end PCs are able to accomplish.

I remember those, but they were all altered ATI Radeon promotional materials that weren't officially endorsed by Nintendo. Fan sites and such slapped Revolution logos on them and called it a day. There was a lot of crap flying back then, but it was mostly from an overenthusiastic fan community. I'm thinking this "leak" is a bit more solid


That said, I'm truly only expecting something that graphically competes with a PS3, but with better shader functionality, more and faster ram, and the ability to render at true HD resolution (and possibly 3D) without the normal compromises of current consoles. Maybe a few more pluses here and there.

That'd be pretty damn great, honestly.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Is anybody else surprised that none of this started with a story from Nikkei or some other Japanese story? They usually get the first leak.

that might point to a more western oriented push third party wise from nintendo, which i think the rumor even mentions.

 

[herod]

Is anybody else surprised that none of this started with a story from Nikkei or some other Japanese story? They usually get the first leak.

Seems more like a broken embargo than a leak.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Wait what was the biggest consumer electronics fuck-up of all time again?

RRoD. Fine, maybe not consumer electronics, I wouldn't know, but certainly video game hardware.

 

[Oblivion]

As someone with a keen eye n developing graphics technology I just don't see how this scenario is really possible. So long as Nintendo aim for a modern 40-50w system at ~28nm and pack in at least 1GB of RAM then they'll handle the vast majority of ports from Microsoft and Sony's systems just fine.

Process shrinks are taking longer and longer, high end GPU power requirements are never going to be feasible for consoles ever again and after the RROD and PS3 cost disasters (both a direct consequence of the unrealistic TDP of launch hardware), the power draw of Sony and Microsoft's machines must come down. Heck, Sony just unveiled a new system comprising of years old off the shelf hardware, their desire to drive thecutting edge of technology is over.

But it's still a generational leap, though right?

 

[watershed]

On a side note, I wonder if Mark Rein has seen the system yet?

 

[stilgar]

I don't see what's so crazy about his statement. I think major western 3rd parties will be cautious about Nintendo's next console because of their experience with the wii. But this could be fixed with Nintendo showing the system to 3rd parties now and 2 amazing E3's before the system's launch.

They won't be more cautious than with the previous generation. Hell, I don't even know how they could be!

 

[Jocchan]

They're closer to presumptions on the basis of Nintendo's entire strategy for the last ten years or so. Looking at everything that have or haven't done in that time, it is reasonable to presume that Nintendo are going to make a machine that isn't above all affordable and profitable, and so likely doesn't considerably outpace the 360/PS3. It is reasonable to presume they don't, and won't, care much about online or accompanying services. It is reasonable to presume that Western developers and publishers will be slow and cautious about putting 'core' games out on it in an unsettled transitional period when the last two Nintendo consoles have burned them badly. And it is extremely reasonable to presume that 'core' gamers are averse to motion control.

First, I agree it's mostly presumption
The flaw is treating strategies in a vacuum, when they're actually influenced by external factors (in this case, third parties and the Wii's perception as a casual market-only box). They are extremely important instead, and the 3DS proves that.

It's safe to assume that Nintendo has no intention of killing its own handheld, so I'm going to assume that the new system's controllers will not - in any fashion - put the 3DS to shame.



It's a laughable statement to say that Western 3rd parties were burned by Nintendo's last two consoles when they never gave the slightest shit about them in the first place. What they got from the Wii audience, they deserved based on the horrid support and trash they threw onto the system.

Besides that, it's equally laughable because 3rd parties are desperate for any additional revenue. Ask EA how it's doing these days. Ask Activision is they're willing to bypass a system they could easily port their games to. You're kidding yourself if you think that's even an option.

I'm not expecting miracles - I'm expecting 3rd parties to continue their multiplatform strategy for the sake of revenue generation.

Definitely. If Nintendo's new platform has a different focus, as rumored, it's silly to assume third parties will ignore it "because the Wii was casual".

 

[[Nintex]]

Ngamer mag(ya know the Project Butterfly guys) say that this rumor is no better than theirs. Lol they must feel pretty stupid running their bullshit story earlier and being out of the loop as far as the actual news is concerned.