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[watershed]

Ngamer mag(ya know the Project Butterfly guys) say that this rumor is no better than theirs. Lol they must feel pretty stupid running their bullshit story earlier and being out of the loop as far as the actual news is concerned.

I missed that, what was their original story?

 

[Graphics Horse]

If it had processing capability of its own - or a notable amount - then it's basically a handheld, right? Which might seem odd vs 3DS.

But I am wondering about other things. Like I wonder if it could have a camera. It could do much better AR using the home system's processing than 3DS, for example - assuming the controller->home system->controller latency was OK.

Hmmrr.. unlikely that looking at an AR screen will be the primary focus for a home system, assuming it requires a central TV display at all...
It could easily have some kind of camera, the wii remote had one after all

 

[Nirolak]

On a side note, I wonder if Mark Rein has seen the system yet?

He's been very clear that they have nothing against Nintendo, so it would be smart for them to send Epic an early dev kit if they like multiplatform titles.

Mark Rein is getting a little tired of "the 3DS question" but, alas, my journalistic instincts demanded I ask him once again. With the launch of Nintendo's handheld right around the corner, it seemed like a prudent inquiry.

"Why do people keep asking about the platforms we don't love?" he asked me in an interview room at the back of Epic's booth on the GDC show floor. "Nothing's changed," he added, "There's only so much time in the day; our engine requires a certain level of hardware capabilities to make our pipeline, our tools work -- and we work on the ones that do. The second Nintendo releases a piece of hardware that can run our engine well, we'll be on it like water on fish."

For Rein, it's not a beef with Nintendo -- he's actually fond of The House Mario Built and has multiple handhelds and Wiis in his home. "There's nothing against Nintendo. I hate that people somehow think that's the case," he said. "If we felt it could run [Unreal Engine] and deliver the kind of experience people license our technology to build, we'd be on [the 3DS]." Well then, guess we won't ask Santa for that 3D version of Infinity Blade we've been dreaming of.

Source: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/02/mark-rein-if-3ds-could-deliver-unreal-engine-3-wed-be-on-it/

 

[Jocchan]

I missed that, what was their original story?

Modular console, with parts you can replace. I can't even write that with a straight face.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

The implications of a HD touch screen integrated into the controls is quite intriguing, indeed - the potential elimination of TV-screen-cluttering-HUDs is enough to get excited about alone. Whether on par or exceeding PS360 tech, the jump will certainly garner 3rd-party support in a way not seen on the Wii. And in terms of sales philosophy, I think too many people here have an either/or way of looking at things. If the 3DS is any indication of this system as the DS was to the Wii then this will be a balanced one. More balanced than the Wii at least in seeking out a traditional audience alongside the flourishing of Wii Sports-like games.

 

[gofreak]

As someone with a keen eye n developing graphics technology I just don't see how this scenario is really possible. So long as Nintendo aim for a modern 40-50w system at ~28nm and pack in at least 1GB of RAM then they'll handle the vast majority of ports from Microsoft and Sony's systems just fine.

Process shrinks are taking longer and longer, high end GPU power requirements are never going to be feasible for consoles ever again and after the RROD and PS3 cost disasters (both a direct consequence of the unrealistic TDP of launch hardware), the power draw of Sony and Microsoft's machines must come down. Heck, Sony just unveiled a new system comprising of years old off the shelf hardware, their desire to drive thecutting edge of technology is over.

I think there's a distinction to be made between conservative architecture choices vs conservative implementations.

There's nothing particularly conservative about the latter in NGP. It'll be on the leading edge of implementations upon its release for that class of hardware (assuming it comes this year anyway), something consoles can't actually be vs PCs.

As for Sony/MS's next gen systems and development trends, it's too early to say IMO. It's absolutely true that Nintendo doesn't have to match Sony/MS to stay in the loop, but there is a line they'll have to come up on and without knowing what any of the systems actually look like right now, it's impossible to make a judgment about the possibility or impossibility of anything

Hmmrr.. unlikely that looking at an AR screen will be the primary focus for a home system, assuming it requires a central TV display at all...
It could easily have some kind of camera, the wii remote had one after all

I'm thinking more of scenarios where the game switches to the controller screen for a few minutes to do some AR stuff, then back to the TV...I think there probably will be use cases where the screen is used for more than just occasional glances.

I don't think HUD elements will be put down onto the controller screen though....yeah, you're saving TV screen real estate, but it would be awkward to have to look away from the TV to see important info IMO.

 

[GavinGT]

You're forgetting that the Wii - a 2006 console - still can't match some of the graphics produced by Xbox in 2001.

The Wii can have better looking games than the Xbox, it just chooses not to.

 

[fierrotlepou]

Why compare it to the PS3 & 360? It'll be a whole different situation when MS and Sony announce their new shit.

 

[Slime]

I missed that, what was their original story?

Basically the Nintendo PC. Upgradable and stuff. Complete bullshit.

 

[Vinci]

Why compare it to the PS3 & 360? It'll be a whole different situation when MS and Sony announce their new shit.

Because MS and Sony aren't likely to get new consoles out anytime soon.

 

[Zeliard]

That said, I'm truly only expecting something that graphically competes with a PS3, but with better shader functionality and the ability to render at true HD resolution (and possibly 3D) without the normal compromises of current consoles. Maybe a few more pluses here and there.

That'd be pretty damn great, honestly.

That would be okay relative to the current gen consoles if released fairly soon, but the question is how will that compare to Microsoft and Sony's next offerings? It mostly comes down to how close Nintendo feels they need to get to what MS/Sony are likely to bring out, in order to keep doing what they do as a first party and to garner enough third-party interest.

And of course, it depends on whatever it is MS and Sony do bring out. People are anticipating a leap there that may not end up quite as high as they're expecting, and it could mean the Wii 2 doesn't necessarily have to do too much, relatively.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Stupid speculation time. What if the HD screen was 3D capable? Could you choose to display your game on the screen so you can have glasses-less 3D just like their handheld? would at least keep their products feeling truly apart of the same family.

 

[JaseC]

Because MS and Sony aren't likely to get new consoles out anytime soon.

They won't be chanting their 10-year mantra if Nintendo's console really is far more powerful than the PS360. MS and Sony couldn't afford to be 2-3 years late to the shelves.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

at worst, i'd expect the equivalent of the dreamcast.

As far as capability goes, I expect the Dreamcast. It will be significantly more powerful than the PS360, but the PS4 and the 3rd Generation XBOX will be significantly more powerful than it. Call it the halfway in between mark.

At the same time I expect that Nintendo will break even or make money on every console sold, while Sony and MS will lose money on every console sold and the will still retail for more than Nintendo's console.

The funniest bit is, if Nintendo somehow manages a 2 year head start (it will probably be one year), it will get the same multiplayer games that the PS4/XB3 get, but the competition will get more sparks.

 

[Jocchan]

Stupid speculation time. What if the HD screen was 3D capable? Could you choose to display your game on the screen so you can have glasses-less 3D just like their handheld? would at least keep their products feeling truly apart of the same family.

Have you ever tried touching images that pop up from the 3DS screen, with either your hand or a stylus? It feels very awkward, honestly.

 

[Vinci]

They won't be chanting their 10-year mantra if Nintendo's console really is far more powerful. MS and Sony couldn't afford to be 2-3 years late to the shelves.

Depends on their timeline. Sony has been under a great deal of financial difficulty for quite some time and has the launch of the NGP to consider. MS might be able to bring something out, but it would make the half billion they spent marketing Kinect seem a bit odd if they're plotting a new console reveal.

 

[IonicSnake]

They won't be chanting their 10-year mantra if Nintendo's console really is far more powerful than the PS360. MS and Sony couldn't afford to be 2-3 years late to the shelves.

The 10 year mantra means that they will support their console for at least 10 years, it have never ment that they wont release a new console until 10 years after their last one.

 

[Instro]

He's been very clear that they have nothing against Nintendo, so it would be smart for them to send Epic an early dev kit if they like multiplatform titles.

Somehow its a bit more fun to think that Epic has it out for Nintendo for some unknown shady reasons. Conspiracies and all that jazz.

To be honest, whatever hardware is going into this thing Nintendo should basically just make sure its powerful enough to run the eventual UE4. If you want to get western 3rd party support, thats pretty much the only way to go imo.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Have you ever tried touching images that pop up from the 3DS screen, with either your hand or a stylus? It feels very awkward, honestly.

I did not factor in touch-sensitivity lol. I would assume that feature would be left out if you chose to display to the 3D screen.

 

[[Nintex]]

I missed that, what was their original story?

A console with yearly refreshes inpsired by Apple and controllers to which you can add stuff. Like a butterfly!

The 10 year mantra means that they will support their console for at least 10 years, it have never ment that they wont release a new console until 10 years after their last one.

Sony seems busy with the NGP so unless they do an outsourcing party I doubt a PS4 would arrive soon. We knew something was up when Nintendo had Grezzo, Ganbarion, Vitei and Monster Games doing almost all their first party Q1/Q2 titles.

Microsoft has hired, expanded and build a lot over at their HQ in Redmond. They certainly have something cooking and it could be ready to roll in 2012. Just look at 343industries for example. Only Rare and Lionhead seem to be busy with Kinect.

 

[Maxrunner]

Nintendo just likes to use old tech to cut costs and rip consumers at launch (and beyond).

That's what they'll do.

Even if it releases in 2012, it doesn't mean it's 2012 tech.

That's assuming they'll stick to the general plan, as they did with DS, Wii and 3DS. Maybe I'm just hating. xD

yep Gamecube and n64 and snes... proves that....oh wait it doesnt....it was just one console....

 

[fierrotlepou]

They won't be chanting their 10-year mantra if Nintendo's console really is far more powerful than the PS360. MS and Sony couldn't afford to be 2-3 years late to the shelves.

Well, I think they're still supporting the PS2. So they would be doing the same with the PS3.

 

[JaseC]

The 10 year mantra means that they will support their console for at least 10 years, it have never ment that they wont release a new console until 10 years after their last one.

Yeah, I know that, but it seemed clear to me that they wanted to ride the 10 years out before putting out a new console, or at least for as long as they could before Nintendo acted.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Have you ever tried touching images that pop up from the 3DS screen, with either your hand or a stylus? It feels very awkward, honestly.

It does, doesn't it? I remember people here poo-pooing Nintendo's comments on 3D being largely incompatible with touch, but having had chance to test it with my 3DS it certainly seems to be.

There's just this awkwardness and a sense of something not-quite-right when you try and touch the 3D screen, particularly when something is meant to be in front of the display (the spinning pencils on the Activity Log, for example). You go from what is a bloody effective illusion of having something solid in front of you to cross-eyed and confused when your brain twigs that touching this apparently-solid object doesn't work.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't think HUD elements will be put down onto the controller screen though....yeah, you're saving TV screen real estate, but it would be awkward to have to look away from the TV to see important info IMO.

Looking at Zelda games they've got it into their head that some people need constant reminder of not just which button does what, but even the location of each button on the controller. Shifting that information to the controller makes sense.

 

[AniHawk]

It does, doesn't it? I remember people here poo-pooing Nintendo's comments on 3D being largely incompatible with touch, but having had chance to test it with my 3DS it certainly seems to be.

There's just this awkwardness and a sense of something not-quite-right when you try and touch the 3D screen, particularly when something is meant to be in front of the display (the spinning pencils on the Activity Log, for example). You go from what is a bloody effective illusion of having something solid in front of you to cross-eyed and confused when your brain twigs that touching this apparently-solid object doesn't work.

and then you wake up and there's blood. blood everywhere.

 

[swerve]

What is everyone's presumed definition of 'HD' regarding the controller touch screen?

 

[Graphics Horse]

You're crazy if you think it'll have a 3D screen. Craaaazy!

Touch based 3D is totally possible, but things that appear to be infront of the screen was always going to be a problem, it's Z-fighting for the brain. It's the whole reason the stupid rumours of the screen only being able to display inward 3D started...

 

[[Nintex]]

Looking at Zelda games they've got it into their head that some people need constant reminder of not just which button does what, but even the location of each button on the controller. Shifting that information to the controller makes sense.

If a controller screen removes Zelda's terrible huds(the Mario team makes better huds, hell Sonic team makes better huds, I'd go as far to say that Rare and their Comic Sans addiction makes better huds, jesus I could make a better hud using the Windows 3.11 version of paint or a dog could make a better hud by shitting in a circle shape on the screen)...

I'd be really happy

 

[Grampa Simpson]

and then you wake up and there's blood. blood everywhere.

I had that happen once. She really shouldn't have said that. Women shouldn't say things like that.

 

[Stat Flow]

Just reading this. Holy fuck.

Sony @ E3: And moving forward with Move Support...

Microsoft @ E3: Holding onto the hardcore market...here are more Kinect games! Feast your eyes on...

Nintendo @ E3:

 

[Cosmonaut X]

and then you wake up and there's blood. blood everywhere.

...and the sound of terrifying bellows from some unearthly throat, echoing round the cyclopean ruins you find yourself in. My God, the angles... the angles are all wrong...

 

[Cels]

this sounds hype.

 

[NEO0MJ]

yep Gamecube and n64 and snes... proves that....oh wait it doesnt....it was just one console....

And the DS was current gen at the time at it's release, it's just that Sony jumped a gen.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Holy fuck.

I support this statement.

 

[LCfiner]

What is everyone's presumed definition of 'HD' regarding the controller touch screen?

I'm guessing just higher than the 3DS resolution. so somewhere around 150 to 200 ppi.

 

[Jocchan]

It does, doesn't it? I remember people here poo-pooing Nintendo's comments on 3D being largely incompatible with touch, but having had chance to test it with my 3DS it certainly seems to be.

There's just this awkwardness and a sense of something not-quite-right when you try and touch the 3D screen, particularly when something is meant to be in front of the display (the spinning pencils on the Activity Log, for example). You go from what is a bloody effective illusion of having something solid in front of you to cross-eyed and confused when your brain twigs that touching this apparently-solid object doesn't work.

There's a picture of a puppy I found on 3Dporch whose muzzle seems to pop up of the screen quite significantly (if I find it, I'll post it in the 3DS photography thread). If you try touching it with a stylus, it feels really weird. Same for things that appear further away, actually, as they'd appear behind the screen surface.
I'm aware that games using the touch functionality wouldn't use 3D, but then we'd have an either/or scenario between touch and 3D, which would make the latter feel a bit less necessary.

 

[Kinan]

I think people are expecting too much from the Wii2 power. I mean, even on PC side of thing one need a pretty capable build to be able to run modern games in FullHD with a 4x AA. Something with GPU starting from 150-200$ alone, with pretty high power consumption. If they are releasing next year, they should be already close to finalising their hardware design now. When we are lucky, it will be something comparable to 5850 cards, i wouldnt really expect anything really "cutting edge", unless they are willing to go Sony and tolerate launch losses.

 

[Shiloa]

I don't get the idea of an HD screen on a controller. I don't see the advantage. Changeable buttons is the obvious thing, and also the possibility of a HUD off the screen but I don't want to have to look down and I want physical buttons.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Whoa.....I just noticed this thread. This kinda came out of nowhere! : O

Quite a bit of info to process, but at first glance things are looking good.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Something I've not seen touched on yet:

The rumoured BC with Wii games is interesting, especially as it seems a number of the internal titles showing up in the Dolphin emulation thread have hi-res HUD elements (and some titles use what seem like unnecessarily hi-res textures). Is it possible Nintendo have been planning for this and building their Wii titles accordingly?

EDIT:

...and I'm not sure about an "HD" screen on the controller either. I could understand a nice mini-touchscreen that devs could shunt interface elements to so you could simply lift a thumb off the D-pad or analogue stick and make menu selections, but an HD display? Sounds odd.

 

[Haunted]

When's E3 this year?

 

[Medalion]

When's E3 this year?

June 7-9

 

[Jocchan]

Something I've not seen touched on yet:

The rumoured BC with Wii games is interesting, especially as it seems a number of the internal titles showing up in the Dolphin emulation thread have hi-res HUD elements (and some titles use what seem like unnecessarily hi-res textures). Is it possible Nintendo have been planning for this and building their Wii titles accordingly?

I doubt they've been planning for this, textures are always made at high resolution and then downscaled (because you can't obviously do the opposite) to fit the available memory.

EDIT:

...and I'm not sure about an "HD" screen on the controller either. I could understand a nice mini-touchscreen that devs could shunt interface elements to so you could simply lift a thumb off the D-pad or analogue stick and make menu selections, but an HD display? Sounds odd.

I doubt the screen would be really HD, with HD meaning a resolution from 720p up.
Wouldn't make sense, considering the 3DS screens.

 

[Vinci]

When's E3 this year?

June 7-9.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Something I've not seen touched on yet:

The rumoured BC with Wii games is interesting, especially as it seems a number of the internal titles showing up in the Dolphin emulation thread have hi-res HUD elements (and some titles use what seem like unnecessarily hi-res textures). Is it possible Nintendo have been planning for this and building their Wii titles accordingly?

EDIT:

...and I'm not sure about an "HD" screen on the controller either. I could understand a nice mini-touchscreen that devs could shunt interface elements to so you could simply lift a thumb off the D-pad or analogue stick and make menu selections, but an HD display? Sounds odd.

Unlikely. I'd be very surprised if this console rendered Wii games in HD as opposed to just upscaling them.

 

[Jocchan]

June 7-9.

Do we know the exact dates of the big three's conferences?

 

[EDarkness]

I think people are expecting too much from the Wii2 power. I mean, even on PC side of thing one need a pretty capable build to be able to run modern games in FullHD with a 4x AA. Something with GPU starting from 150-200$ alone, with pretty high power consumption. If they are releasing next year, they should be already close to finalising their hardware design now. When we are lucky, it will be something comparable to 5850 cards, i wouldnt really expect anything really "cutting edge", unless they are willing to go Sony and tolerate launch losses.

If they have a dual core 2GHz something and 1-2GB of RAM, then they're in good shape. That's plenty of power to do something with for a few years and will run UE3 with no sweat.

 

[NEO0MJ]

June 7-9.

Man, that sucks. My finals are on those days and I know I can't resist going online, just like last year...

 

[TheOddOne]

Microsoft has hired, expanded and build a lot over at their HQ in Redmond. They certainly have something cooking and it could be ready to roll in 2012. Just look at 343industries for example. Only Rare and Lionhead seem to be busy with Kinect.

Good Science Studios (The Kinect Guys) and The Family Studio has also been building up.