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Rumor: Wii 2 at E3; 6" Touch Controller [Up: Cafe Header On Nintendo Site, More]

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Deku

Banned
I disagree with ami on the same points. ami thinks NGP is a refinement of touch controls, though capacitive touch is only meaningful when you dont have buttons to work with. The touch panel in 3DS is completely inline with what one would assume a successor to DS would use.

Yes back in 2006 I thought multi-touch would be a shoe in, but having used them on iOS onther other devices it is not precise enough nor is it practical enough to provide real evolution or refinement over resisitive screens, especially not when you need to deal with precise touch controls for DS BC.

The only interesting 'touch' control innovation on the NGP is the back touch panel, but that seemed to be more of a shot in the dark and hoping they don't get one upped by Nintendo on controls again. That's very 'Sony'. Recall sixaxis.
 

Bentendo

Member
carlo6529 said:
This would piss me off to no end. I will not buy another new Nintendo console to play a zelda game made for the generation before. I did it for the Wii, I won't do it again.

Edit~ We technically still haven't got a new Zelda this console generation.

What are you talking about? Have you completely forgotten about LINK'S CROSSBOW TRAINING? :p
 

Anth0ny

Member
Amir0x said:
Just use what works and REFINE it.

The funny thing is, they've kinda been doing that until now.

NES -> SNES

N64 was the big jump to 3D.

N64 -> GC

Wii was the big jump to motion controls.

Wii -> ???

This new console should just take the Wii, and as you say, refine it. 1080p, 60fps, way stronger than PS3, etc. I think they feel like they need to have another revolution like the Wii, when they really don't. Just take the Wii, and find success with third party devs (which pretty much equates to BETTER GRAPHIX). Mission accomplished.

the whole touch screen in the controller shit sounds expensive and dumb.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Lonely1 said:
What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?

If they are working closer with 3rd parties, its likely they will listen to them.

The 3DS ended up with more RAM than it was expected to.
 

Bentendo

Member
Anth0ny said:
The funny thing is, they've kinda been doing that until now.

NES -> SNES

N64 was the big jump to 3D.

N64 -> GC

Wii was the big jump to motion controls.

Wii -> ???

This new console should just take the Wii, and as you say, refine it. 1080p, 60fps, way stronger than PS3, etc. I think they feel like they need to have another revolution like the Wii, when they really don't. Just take the Wii, and find success with third party devs (which pretty much equates to BETTER GRAPHIX). Mission accomplished.

the whole touch screen in the controller shit sounds expensive and dumb.

It's really too bad that the SNES and GameCube performed worse than their predecessor.
 
Lonely1 said:
What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?

I expect a gig. Probably not more, but not the same as 360 and PS3.

That being said, Nintendo does seem to prefer "less RAM, but faster" as opposed to "more RAM." I think the GameCube caught some flack for having a design like that. But hopefully, Nintendo has learned from their "bottlenecks-galore" N64 hardware setup.

EDIT: Seconding the earlier quote about working with (and somewhat catering to) 3rd parties.

Also, HYPE!!!!!
 
Lonely1 said:
What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?

Nobody ever said that it would only include 512MB. The Google translation of the article states precisely that the amount of RAM is "unknown. It would be logical that it is a unified RAM, like the 360, with a minimum of 512 MB."

And no, I don't believe Nintendo is that shortsighted.
 

Bentendo

Member
brochiller said:
Nobody ever said that it would only include 512MB. The Google translation of the article states precisely that the amount of RAM is "unknown. It would be logical that it is a unified RAM, like the 360, with a minimum of 512 MB."

And no, I don't believe Nintendo is that shortsighted.

Holy crap are you kidding me? People are having this hissy fit over an assumption (or mis-translation)?
 
Orayn said:
If this thing is really getting a Radeon 4000-series equivalent GPU, people are really overestimating the size of gap we might see between the Wii2 and the PS3/360 successors. Hell, if third party support did come together, it could enjoy an almost PS2-like position of privilege.

Dropping motion control is simply not going to happen at this point. If anything, we'll see more refined and consistent implementation of it. (More pointer functionality would also be nice.)

While I agree they will never "go away" I would want them to be optional like how Move is for PS3, or offer some kind of compromise. They will never win back the core market if they don't have a traditional controller, much like light gun games I can only play motion titles for so long before I get tired of holding my arm up, so I can never dedicate as much time to a Wii game as I can on my PS3/360. Thankfully these rumors do seem to include a traditional setup (thumb sticks and triggers)
 

Amir0x

Banned
Anth0ny said:
Wii -> ???

This new console should just take the Wii, and as you say, refine it. 1080p, 60fps, way stronger than PS3, etc. I think they feel like they need to have another revolution like the Wii, when they really don't. Just take the Wii, and find success with third party devs (which pretty much equates to BETTER GRAPHIX). Mission accomplished.

the whole touch screen in the controller shit sounds expensive and dumb.

I'm going off the idea of these articles. With 3DS, we got the awful autostereoscopic 3D gimmick (although admittedly, at least, with the ability to turn off 3D completely, it won't effect gameplay at all). With DS, we have the touch screens, dual screens. With Wii got the motion controllers. With the rumoured stuff in this new system, there is apparently a lot of very big changes. It does not sound purely like an improvement on motion controls at all, or even close. If the rumours are false that's another thing entirely.

Every new system release now they're trying to add some "captivating" gimmick which ultimately just serves to do much little but make games less refined instead of more. If I wanted inferior gameplay I'd go back a few generations and play those time-locked platforms. But I don't. I want new systems because I want to leave behind old standards and see the quirks worked OUT of the old problems. I don't want a whole slew of new problems introduced.
 
Donnie said:
Do you think a R700 (Radeon HD4800) is only slightly more powerful than a R500 (Radeon x1900)?? If those specs are correct then Wii2 will be far more powerful then 360 graphically. Obviously the info on the CPU is pretty nondescript and they have no info on ram, so we have little idea how they'll compare.

Again R700 is the codename of a single GPU part (the 4870x2), it has never been used to refer to a family of products. If rumours say that it uses an R700 chip, then rumours say it uses a 4870x2 not a 4670, not a 4870 or anything else, they say it uses a GPU that is an order of magnitude more powerful than Xenos. If there's any other GPU being used, then the rumours are false, that codename doesn't givee any real room for variation.

So if you believe those rumours are legit, then it only follows that you believe this system is a graphical powerhouse.
 
Amir0x said:
This is the type of argument people make when they can't make arguments.

"YOU'RE THE MINORITY SO THAT MEANS THESE THINGS ARE PROVEN TO WORK!"

False. The only thing this demonstrates are that people LIKE unrefined gimmicks and parlor tricks. But we've always known that. We've ALWAYS known that their speak about "gameplay" is a lie. What they want is to giggle like infants over magic tricks and "newness" for "newness"-sake. It speaks nothing to their refinement or their quality. Because as we all know, the masses are fucking fantastic for picking awful things and making them popular.
Dwight Schrute?
 

Amir0x

Banned
MindCollizion said:
Dwight Schrute?

No see Dwight Schrute is the epitome of the manchild. He's a metaphor for the Nintendo fanboy if ever there was one. Obviously, you don't really watch The Office.
 

Azure J

Member
brain_stew said:
R700 is the codename for only one GPU; the 4870x2.

There's no way that would end up in the system but if Nintendo are using a GPU that is more than 10x as powerful as Xenos in their dev kits, then this thing is going to be no slouch.

Holy shit, twist acquired? And here I thought R700 meant anything in that line HD4XXX line as well. Things are getting really interesting again. :D
 

Deku

Banned
Anth0ny said:
This new console should just take the Wii, and as you say, refine it. 1080p, 60fps, way stronger than PS3, etc. I think they feel like they need to have another revolution like the Wii, when they really don't. Just take the Wii, and find success with third party devs (which pretty much equates to BETTER GRAPHIX). Mission accomplished.

the whole touch screen in the controller shit sounds expensive and dumb.

It has motion controls still, and some reports say it is more accurate than move.

This is really the case of people picking what they want.

The jilted former fans secretly hope it's a technological beast with no motion. The pessimists want to think its 360 level , and the reality is probably somewhere in there.

More conventional platform with motion controls and decent hardware specs.
 

Orayn

Member
Bentendo said:
It's really too bad that the SNES and GameCube performed worse than their predecessor.
We can cut the Super Nintendo some slack for not being the system that almost single handedly revived an industry that was left for dead. The Gamecube was a bit of a blunder with its storage medium, but people seem to forget that 6th gen ended with Gamecube and Xbox neck and neck.
 

udivision

Member
Bentendo said:
It's really too bad that the SNES and GameCube performed worse than their predecessor.
GBA did worse than GB, I think.
If 3DS does worse than DS, then every "refinement" generation is a worse one...
 

Spike

Member
Please Nintendo, all I want is that there are no more tethers. I don't want my controllers attached to one another. Wireless all the way, please.
 
Amir0x said:
eck that article "plus another big surprise."

The off chance that this gimmick is actually decent for once aside, I so hope we get past the era of every generation needing to satisfy the ADHD set/game haters set with some novel yet ultimately comically unrefined feature that serves more often to confuse and baffle developers with the built-in limitations inherent to the devices and massive steps back from currently established control standards.

I want refinements of what actually works, not more piling on of crap that will like improve a half of a genre like Kinect.




God I just hope this thing has buttons. I buckled for the remote, but if they drop buttons for touchscreen imitation buttons I really just won't buy the system. That's unacceptable. I hate these goddamn rumours

If you're reacting to the French article, it does mention the controller having buttons, L&R triggers and a d-pad.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
Anth0ny said:
The funny thing is, they've kinda been doing that until now.

NES -> SNES

N64 was the big jump to 3D.

N64 -> GC

Wii was the big jump to motion controls.

Wii -> ???

Super Wii my friends. Super Wii.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Holy Order Sol said:
If you're reacting to the French article, it does mention the controller having buttons, L&R triggers and a d-pad.

it said triggers and a d-pad. Seems pretty mute about the uh more important things like ANALOGS and buttons. Either way, if any of these buttons are left off, the system becomes essentially worthless (and indisputably inferior) for controlling games unless the system ships with multiple controllers and this is just one option
 

Biff

Member
I dunno if it's bad to mention it here in this thread (hopefully not as it might spark interesting conversation) but do these industry-wide rumors mean Sony and MS will have to bump up a teaser for their next-gen hardware this E3 as well?

IMO, I think Fall 2012 is still too soon for PS4/X720.. Fall 2013 at the earliest. Therefore, I doubt Sony and MS were planning on showing anything hardware-related this E3.

But... now do they "have" to?
 

apana

Member
I don't know if anyone else noticed this but Geoff Keighley had all of a sudden started predicting Wii 2 to be revealed at this E3. It was on a podcast a few months ago, can't remember which one, I was wondering why he would make that prediction.
 

Orayn

Member
miladesn said:
sJesT.jpg


This is wonderful news if it's true. As a big fan of both dual analog and pointer/nunchuk setups, having either at my disposal would be amazing.
 
Amir0x said:
No see Dwight Schrute is the epitome of the manchild. He's a metaphor for the Nintendo fanboy if ever there was one. Obviously, you don't really watch The Office.
I was just referring to the need to use "False" at the beginning of a sentence, followed by an explanation that further shows how much into yourself you are.
 
Orayn said:
If this thing is really getting a Radeon 4000-series equivalent GPU, people are really overestimating the size of gap we might see between the Wii2 and the PS3/360 successors. Hell, if third party support did come together, it could enjoy an almost PS2-like position of privilege.

That's the only strategy that makes any sense here.

You're Nintendo. You know that the next generation, absent any effort from you, will start in 2013, with systems that represent "generational" increases from PS3/360, but in a more conservative fashion -- in all likelihood, $299-ish boxes that use chips running on the cooler end of what's "up to date" upon release. (In other words: way ahead of current consoles, but not impressive compared to 2013 PCs.)

You also know that although keeping development costs down is important, a) you completely and utterly lost the battle of doing so by using low-powered hardware, b) fundamental cost issues are to some degree going to force it anyway (many companies literally can't afford to spend more money developing titles than they do now), and c) unlike Sony and Microsoft you have a variety of routes to produce extremely popular first-party software that displays in HD and looks great but doesn't have the cost issues of content-rich realistic-style graphics.

The thing to do in this situation is square the circle: launch early (to get some of the advantage the 360 enjoyed by building up an early library and early adopters) with a $299 system that's in the power-ballpark of the systems that'll follow a year later (like Niro said, a PS2 to their OG Xbox) after giving third parties a year and a half to work on it -- that'll ensure that you're getting all the multiplatform titles, plus maybe some exclusives from devs who are willing to try out your gimmick now that it's attached to a "graphically modern" system, and you'll retain the Nintendo first-party advantage.

Basically, when you get down to it, the motion control part of the Wii plan was a huge success but the underpowered part was a huge failure -- all its gangbuster sales can be credited to the unique software they were able to make using the Wiimote, but all its late-period declines can be attributed to the software they never got because third-parties refused to develop exclusives for the system and couldn't release multiplats for it. Refining motion control, adding minor new gimmick to sell to moms, and making a meaningful graphical jump that ideally sets the pace for the generation would let them consolidate several markets and compete much more effectively on software than they do currently.

Sadly, as always, the network is what'll sink this plan: Nintendo would need to have a PSN-level network structure at minimum and I honestly just can't even imagine that.

neptunes said:
The actual dollar figure is irrelevant, It's all relative anyway.

No, it really isn't. Increasing budgets have had huge qualitative effects on the way the industry operates. In the days of $2 million budgets, one could easily create a purely exclusive title and recoup off sales from a single platform. In the days of $40 million budgets, that's almost impossible for anything but the largest titles.
 

Guevara

Member
I think the successor to the Wii will have to be somewhat more "hardcore" than the Wii was. In retrospect it was obvious that both the PS3 and 360 were going for the hardcore, high-power/high-cost audience. This left a major underserved market for Nintendo and it was the whole basis of the Blue Ocean strategy. Nintendo was able to put out a comparatively inexpensive/underpowered console with a novel interface and the rest is history. That trick won't work again.

I don't know what the "blue ocean" will be this time. A year ago I honestly though that the successor to the Wii and the successor to the DS would be the same thing: a powerful portable that also connects to your home TV. That would have been an amazing strategy, although perhaps Nintendo is right to wait until the gulf between mobile processors and consoles narrows in 5 more years.
 
Lonely1 said:
What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?
I've seen 1GB (plus any dedicated/embedded RAM, of course) as a lock for Nintendo's next system for some time now, 2GB is an outside possibility but not necessary in order to acheive the sort of leap forward they need.
 

apana

Member
dual analog, wii remote, touch screen: at some point something has to give. This is gonna be some god like controller.
 

Zeliard

Member
That is going to be one strange-looking controller. Dual analog, triggers, presumably face buttons, and a screen large enough to function as a detailed touchscreen. How big is this thing going to be?

Edit: haha apana
 

Pyrokai

Member
I think it's interesting that everyone is assuming that because it's reportedly backwards compatible with Wii games, the new controller has to AT LEAST have the Wii's same functionality.

Well, no, I think it's entirely possible they will come up with a new controller that may not have features of the Wii remote (IR is something that might go away, though I'm seriously hoping it won't). All they need to do to make it BC is make sure that current Wii Remotes work with the system. It's the exact same as the Wii being GCN backwards compatible, but you have to use actual GCN controllers. It's no different.


Anyway, what are everyone's thoughts on the the Wii 2 being able to upscale Wii games to a higher resolution? Is this possible at all, or will it simply play them back in SD?
 

Orayn

Member
What if he's talking about sharing your live gameplay? This could mean that the next "blue ocean" is social/online functionality.
 

Amir0x

Banned
apana said:
dual analog, wii remote, touch screen: at some point something has to give. This is gonna be some god like controller.

not a god controller at all. Any controller with all this shit attached would be an unergonomic mess. Like a fucking transformer with spikes or some shit.

That's why I think there is either detachable segments or multiple controller types.
 
It surprises me how many find the idea of a new Nintendo machine notably beyond X360/PS3 hard to believe. Worst case scenario, and this new system is as far behind technically as Wii was in 2006: we still ought to end up with whatever would've been a decent new system in 2007-2008, 2 years after those machines. Better case scenario where it's as far behind as Wii could've been if they'd made something new at the same price instead of recycling the GameCube hardware, add another year or two of advancement.
Amir0x said:
also one of the things people are kind of not discussing is the huuuuuge risk Nintendo is taking in blowing their load so early that when their competitors come out they are again vastly more powerful and thus, ports will be difficult. The inability to receive functional ports was one of the largest factors in destroying their third party support last gen.

Will be very curious indeed
Even if new Sony/MS hardware is vastly more powerful (analogous to this generation), things could work out less awfully for Nintendo. Last time Wii's success came too surprisingly late, by which time most everyone had moved on to post-Wii-level projects. If Wii had released and made a splash before the HD transition point-of-no-return, we'd probably have a lot more Wii/HD multiplatform games like Sengoku Basara 3.
djtesto said:
Now I can hope that DQX will have a mode to take advantage of the Wii2 horsepower...
Seems a lot less likely than DQIX having a mode to take advantage of DSi horsepower.
Michael Pachter said:
I think the right time for the console was in front of Kinect and Move, and think that Nintendo has forever lost one customer for each Kinect and Move unit sold.
Was every Wii sold a sale forever lost for Kinect or Move?
Lonely1 said:
What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?
That would seem incredibly ridiculous. 3DS appears to have 32 times the RAM of its predecessor. Next home console not even having 6 times as much as Wii?
 

[Nintex]

Member
brochiller said:
So like a mini On-live then? The console does the processing work and streams the video to the controller to display?
Like I told you people, the space rocket thing was true as well.
 

Orayn

Member
apana said:
dual analog, wii remote, touch screen: at some point something has to give. This is gonna be some god like controller.
I'm thinking about it as a pair of analog-bearing Wii remotes that can be dropped into some sort of shell or harness together.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Just to be clear, the 4870x2 is considerably more powerful than my 280, My 280 can Max the likes of Crysis, Metro and Mafia II at 720p and 30fps+. I consider it to be a gen ahead of my Ps3. And that's with the OS overhead.

brain_stew said:
Again R700 is the codename of a single GPU part (the 4870x2), it has never been used to refer to a family of products. If rumours say that it uses an R700 chip, then rumours say it uses a 4870x2 not a 4670, not a 4870 or anything else, they say it uses a GPU that is an order of magnitude more powerful than Xenos. If there's any other GPU being used, then the rumours are false, that codename doesn't givee any real room for variation.

So if you believe those rumours are legit, then it only follows that you believe this system is a graphical powerhouse.
But what modern card can they include in the system that approaches to an 4870x2 without being a power hungry, super hot GPU?
 

udivision

Member
apana said:
dual analog, wii remote, touch screen: at some point something has to give. This is gonna be some god like controller.
You ARE the console, the Wii 2 is the controller, and the 3DS is the only game.
 
Pyrokai said:
Anyway, what are everyone's thoughts on the the Wii 2 being able to upscale Wii games to a higher resolution? Is this possible at all, or will it simply play them back in SD?

Unless the console is EXTREMELY more powerful than the PS3, it will simply emulate Wii games in 480p. To upscale games like the Dolphin emulator does you need a processor vastly more powerful than the one that is currently in the Wii. Even high-end PC processors have trouble doing it.
 
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