Support NeoGAF

[Amir0x]

How are those long lines for 3DS working out for you ;-)

I didn't say there'd be long lines (although there WERE long lines at the store when i got my 3DS!). I said I thought there would be shortages by the time I want the system around Paper Mario 3DS launch, which is why I got it now instead of waiting. I strongly believe that will be the case.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

It sucks when you read 43 pages of a thread and get to the end waiting for more updates.

 

[Spike]

hehe that is only really good thing from this concept I can think of so far. But if the controller has limited/no buttons outcome still sucks.

It will have buttons. I mean, with the DS, they had the opportunity to make a buttonless design, yet they still incorporated them. I don't think Nintendo would take such a drastic measure.

 

[gameboya]

You should've played Crystal Chronicles on the Gamecube. Inventory on your GBA's screen without pausing the game for your friends? Hell yeah!

Actually I did and they abandoned the whole connectivity between devices like that.. even if it was going to be pushed then why didn't it show up on the Wii? Because the idea was not very good and it didn't catch on probbly how they thought it would. It's just not going to happen.. like I said IF there is a screen it might be to read the vitality sensor readings or something of that nature.. maybe even a DS lite version of the OS where you don't NEED to turn the Wii on for information regarding what you played etc... but definitely not what people are suggesting.. it's a HORRIBLE idea and one Nintendo ditched with the whole GBA connectivity crap..

 

[Vinci]

The actual dollar figure is irrelevant, It's all relative anyway. I think $ 2 million was considered a lot back then. Especially when compared to the N64/GC days.

To hell it is. The price of games went up $10, while budgets went from $2 million to tens of millions per title. There is no mid-range title anymore.

There's no reason why the Wii didn't even get half of the 3rd party games the PS2 had, but look where where we are now. Third parties could have ported their most established IPs.

Because the Wii and the PS2 are two very different things, especially in context.

 

[thecouncil]

Wouldn't looking down to view HUD information be distracting to the gameplay? I could see it being used for quick switch style stuff like inventory etc but not as a full HUD.

well, heres the crap that could be thrown on there for a zelda game, for example:
mini-map,
button designations for items,
magic bar (if ever that comes up again)
rupees...
the only thing that MIGHT be needed on the main screen is hearts, but, seriously, when was the last time you were worried about hearts in a zelda game?? right?

 

[Vagabundo]

It sucks when you read 43 pages of a thread and get to the end waiting for more updates.

Mentioning Nintendo brings out the kid in people. We will post ourselves into a frothing mania.

 

[1-D_FTW]

http://media1.gameinformer.com/media/audio/theshow/ep64/theshow-ep64.mp3

Finally listened to it. I'm beginning to think people are just making stuff up. They spend a bunch of time talking about whether it'll be motion controls or back to traditional controls. They seem to have gotten zero info there. Only thing they seemed certain of was that it'll be slightly less/more powerful than a PS3.

 

[Spike]

I didn't say there'd be long lines (although there WERE long lines at the store when i got my 3DS!). I said I thought there would be shortages by the time I want the system around Paper Mario 3DS launch, which is why I got it now instead of waiting. I strongly believe that will be the case.

Absolutely. I'm going to say that the shortages are going to start from when Mario Kart releases onwards.

 

[Zeliard]

While the above are just renders, it's obvious (at least to me) that there is still a LOT of room for graphical improvements for Nintendo's key franchises whether they are cartoony or realistic.

You might be surprised at what a higher resolution can do even working with the same assets:

(downsized from 1680x1050, old monitor)

 

[thehillissilent]

R700 is the codename for only one GPU; the 4870x2.

There's no way that would end up in the system but if Nintendo are using a GPU that is more than 10x as powerful as Xenos in their dev kits, then this thing is going to be no slouch.

I hope you are right brain_stew.

 

[Amir0x]

It will have buttons. I mean, with the DS, they had the opportunity to make a buttonless design, yet they still incorporated them. I don't think Nintendo would take such a drastic measure.

I don't either. I'm just responding to that latest rumour. which is why i hate rumours

 

[brochiller]

This.

Thats what I take from the "Much stronger than the PS3" bit.
They want to make a true gen jump so that they don't run into the same problem with games as they did this gen because then devs could easily port games to what will likely be the lead console next gen.

Exactly. Nintendo can't afford to see only two good years of third party support assuming we see the Xbox720/PS4 around 2014. If the next gen of consoles exceed the power of the next Nintendo console too much, Nintendo will find themselves in the exact same position they are currently in.

 

[Donnie]

Fuck Nintendo if it's "slightly more powerful than a 360" or less in 2012. It will be the first Nintendo console I will ever skip.

Do you think a R700 (Radeon HD4800) is only slightly more powerful than a R500 (Radeon x1900)?? If those specs are correct then Wii2 will be far more powerful then 360 graphically. Obviously the info on the CPU is pretty nondescript and they have no info on ram, so we have little idea how they'll compare.

 

[Orayn]

You might be surprised at what a higher resolution can do even working with the same assets:

This is why I'm really hoping for boosted resolutions via Wii BC. Monster Hunter Tri looks fan-fucking-tastic at HD resolutions.

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

This is what I had in mind, excuse the terrible graphics:

Something like this would add a lot of functionality above just pressing it like a button, like being able to have a sliding interface. And of course, being a screen, the buttons could be mapped in anyway they want to, and even label them conveniently.

Yes except you would have to take your eyes off the action because you can't use your sense of touch to realize you're using the right area of the screen. "Haptic" vibration feedback won't cut it.

 

[Davey Cakes]

We've had enough unrefined generations from you, Nintendo. I am half starting to believe that is the problem with your games these gens, that you're so busy experimenting in trying to work around the gargantuan limitations in these devices versus what came before that the gameplay and/or overall quality suffers./

I'm all for refinement. However, I think that we need to consider the GOOD that's come out of Nintendo's hardware limitations in terms of their own games.

Basically, by working around the hardware and experimenting, they've been able to really focus on the core gameplay and goodness of games without too many distractions. Nintendo's developers are really impressive because they can put out incredible content even though they're competing with vastly superior hardware.

So basically, while we want them to not restrict themselves so much anymore, we should still allow them to experiment and to be, well, Nintendo. The last thing I want is for the company to lose the level of creativity that's brought them so far. While, obviously, less restrictions will allow Nintendo to be more free to build ambitious projects, we need to appreciate that they've thus far proven themselves most by producing top-tier software on lower-end hardware, and have put out some pretty darn interesting content because of it.

So really, I don't believe that quality of content has suffered, in Nintendo's case. Restrictions are unnecessary, but we should be happy that Nintendo still shows effort enough to work around them and provide the best content they can. The biggest problem with better hardware, I feel, is that is makes developers too confident that they're putting out something amazing, just by including high graphical fidelity and a bunch of features, even though core, focused gameplay, framerate, and other aspects may suffer.

There's a balance that I think Nintendo can easily maintain, but I'm still going to say that the lack of restrictions isn't the one thing I'd want out of Nintendo's next system, in terms of power. I do feel that there are aspects (like online capabilities and structure) that Nintendo could really afford to work on and overhaul entirely, but that's a separate point.

 

[demonturkey]

*sigh*

Is it the 26th yet?

 

[which1spink]

Do you hardware experts think that AMD Fusion SOC could be used for the NHD?

 

[Xdrive05]

Zelda on a >360 chipset would be nice. No more goddamn 7 polygon trees. Speaking of... SS a Wii 2 launch title?

 

[brochiller]

Yes except you would have to take your eyes off the action because you can't use your sense of touch to realize you're using the right area of the screen. "Haptic" vibration feedback won't cut it.

I can't even stand using touch controls on the screen of my phone which I'm constantly looking at. Not having physical buttons just won't cut it for a console.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

It's a shame that with all Nintendo platforms since DS it really feels like Nintendo is just like "oh god we're running out of things to do here what other bullshit can we add!? VITALITY SENSOR! Yes! And, uh, we can revive the VMU but in HD! Everybody was asking for that, right?"

Just use what works and REFINE it.

Let me talk to Nintendo personally, since he's in the room and I think I made him feel bad.

Look, Nintendo...

We've had enough unrefined generations from you, Nintendo. I am half starting to believe that is the problem with your games these gens, that you're so busy experimenting in trying to work around the gargantuan limitations in these devices versus what came before that the gameplay and/or overall quality suffers./

What are you talking about? They pretty much refine their system every other generation and then come out with something new. SNES was a refined and improved NES. GC was a refined and improved N64. GBA was a refined GB and 3DS is a refined DS. If they follow this cycle, we'll more than likely see them make improvements to what they established with Wii. The next system is the one that would introduce something new.

 

[Pooya]

http://twitter.com/jimreilly/statuses/58948527677648896

There will be first and third party "Wii 2" games at E3. No clue if they'll be playable.

 

[Deku]

The actual dollar figure is irrelevant, It's all relative anyway. I think $ 2 million was considered a lot back then. Especially when compared to the N64/GC days.

There's no reason why the Wii didn't even get half of the 3rd party games the PS2 had, but look where where we are now. Third parties could have ported their most established IPs.

Where was the Wii iteration of [insert AAA 3rd party franchise here], "shit they could have just ported the PS2 game etc..."

$2 million is still alot today. But you have growth in dev costs of 500 to 2,000% and industry has grown by maybe 200% and most of it was on the Wii/DS and more recently iOS segments.

They money is just not there. And I can;t imagine another hardware generation where hardware is designed based on pure economic power to put someone out of business, Nintendo being much richer and more secure not withstanding.

My point is, the hardware we got this gen would not have been made under normal rational 'hardware' cycles.

Others have commented the hardware race would be completely different if it were pure 'core' gaming companies competing and not multi-tentacled conglomerates trying to control your living room.

 

[tuffy]

A durable handheld device with buttons, control pad and a screen plays to Nintendo's strength, so it's plausible as a primary controller. And, since the wiimote was designed to accommodate varied play styles (motion-only, pointer, w. nunchuck analog stick, NES-style, etc.), it's likely this new controller will be built with lots of play styles in mind also. But since they'll likely shoot for a another non-intimidating design, I'm expecting something with physical buttons and a control stick in addition to the touch screen, but closer in design to the wiimote than to the classic controller.

 

[brain_stew]

I hope you are right brain_stew.

What I said is absolutely correct, the 4870 codename was RV770, the 4890 codename was RV790 etc. R700 only ever referred to the 4870x2 and if that's the part that's currently in dev kits then this machine will eventually be capable of running Epic's next generation demo in HD.

 

[Bentendo]

Analyst comments on the Wii's successor:

I think the right time for the console was in front of Kinect and Move, and think that Nintendo has forever lost one customer for each Kinect and Move unit sold. That means they should have launched the Wii 2 in Fall 2009, and at the latest in Fall 2010, so a launch in 2011 is late. With that said, it's never 'too' late, since they can retain the lion's share of the market by inducing current Wii owners to upgrade, and by capturing undecided consumers who have either not yet purchased a console or who have not yet bought Kinect or Move. It's highly likely that there is a Wii 2 reveal at E3. If they don't do it this year, then it might be too late next year.

Nintendo needs to launch first in the next generation, as Wii is somewhat saturated and the console's low resolution graphics lag in the current generation. I expect the next Nintendo console in 2012 at the latest, so a 2011 E3 launch announcement is a strong possibility. There will be some risk for Nintendo in the next generation - Wii has a huge installed base and Nintendo should work to keep that base active as long as possible. Nintendo has successfully straddled handheld generations, but console succession is far trickier. 'Wii 2' will need to be backwards compatible, as Nintendo is likely to support Wii with software until the next console gains sufficient penetration. The next Nintendo console is likely to have improved motion control and to include video camera tech, but I'd be disappointed if it didn't have some off-the-wall innovation that pushes the medium forward in an unforeseen direction. With Wii and with handhelds, Nintendo doesn't compete with other vendors on hardware. In fact, Nintendo leads with hardware control and user interface. However, Nintendo must step up and compete in the online console marketplace and multiplayer experience, where Microsoft and Sony are performing strongly. Connected devices' online experience should lead, rather than follow, the hardware's capabilities.

Unfortunately I cannot speculate on what a Wii 2 will have. I literally have no information on it, so anything I speculate will surely be wrong. But I can say this. Nintendo doesn't go with the flow, they never have, and gamers can expect Nintendo to continue to be original and offer up an experience that simply cannot be found or matched on other platforms. But if you want to use some historical information. Nintendo announced the Revolution, later renamed the Wii, at their 2005 E3 press conference, a full year and half from its official release. So a Wii 2 announcement certainly wouldn't be a shocker if they plan for a 2012 holiday release.

 

[Shiggy]

The current 'gamer' market in the West? Aggressively? Not even remotely.

Depends on how you define 'gamer'. If you define them as "people who always want the same old FPS games and nothing new", then you are right.

 

[bloodforge]

This is what I had in mind, excuse the terrible graphics:

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9588/1759725-wall.png

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9588/1759726-wall2.png

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9588/1759727-wall3.png

Something like this would add a lot of functionality above just pressing it like a button, like being able to have a sliding interface. And of course, being a screen, the buttons could be mapped in anyway they want to, and even label them conveniently.

Move the screen down and put a d-pad on the top and I think that would work great.

 

[NEO0MJ]

It will have buttons. I mean, with the DS, they had the opportunity to make a buttonless design, yet they still incorporated them. I don't think Nintendo would take such a drastic measure.

Only difference is that buttonless games are becoming more widespread and accepted thanks to the ipad. But at their current state they're just horrible for serious gaming and I'm sure Nintendo knows that.

 

[Pie Lord]

*sigh*

Is it the 26th yet?

Why are we looking forward to the 26th?

 

[Hero of Legend]

http://twitter.com/jimreilly/statuses/58948527677648896

So a much better reveal than E3 2005 confirmed?

 

[DirectX]

I just wonder if they will keep cost down as with last gen they were not a high price console. I also really want to see if it is actually more powerful than PS3. I wonder if it will have wiimote and a more traditional controller both in the box.

 

[TheBanditKing]

I wouldn't mind one bit if it did away with the motion control bullshit. The Wii is the first Nintendo Console I've not bought and if the next one looked as good as the 360 and PS3 and used a proper controller I'd be a happy camper.

Agreed while I own a Wii, I have never been able to buy many games for it because I usually hate the controls (not that the sub HD or 4:3 presentation of some of the games encourage me much either). The Wii really left me at odds with Nintendo, so I am hoping their next effort is better equipped and drops the mandatory motion controls.

 

[Orayn]

If this thing is really getting a Radeon 4000-series equivalent GPU, people are really overestimating the size of gap we might see between the Wii2 and the PS3/360 successors. Hell, if third party support did come together, it could enjoy an almost PS2-like position of privilege.

Agreed while I own a Wii, I have never been able to buy many games for it because I usually hate the controls (not that the sub HD or 4:3 presentation of some of the games encourage me much either). The Wii really left me at odds with Nintendo, so I am hoping their next effort is better equipped and drops the mandatory motion controls.

Dropping motion control is simply not going to happen at this point. If anything, we'll see more refined and consistent implementation of it. (More pointer functionality would also be nice.)

 

[brain_stew]

http://twitter.com/jimreilly/statuses/58948527677648896

One will be an UE3 demo, count on it. Getting Crytek on board would be a very smart move as well. Having familiar middleware up and running on the system asap is going to be crucial to gaining early thirds party supportt.

 

[Touch]

well, heres the crap that could be thrown on there for a zelda game, for example:
mini-map,
button designations for items,
magic bar (if ever that comes up again)
rupees...
the only thing that MIGHT be needed on the main screen is hearts, but, seriously, when was the last time you were worried about hearts in a zelda game?? right?

Yeah, you don't need to worry about hearts in a Zelda games but it's just one of those things that needs to be on the main screen. Everything else, I guess, could go on the controller screen. Though, it would be awesome if the games allowed us to choose where information is viewed (main HUD or controller).

 

[DECK'ARD]

This is why I'm really hoping for boosted resolutions via Wii BC. Monster Hunter Tri looks fan-fucking-tastic at HD resolutions.

I wouldn't expect that unfortunately.

The way Nintendo does BC it basically shuts down everything apart from what is needed for the BC, basically simulating the older system completely for 100% compatibility.

At best just the video signal will be upscaled.

 

[Vinci]

Depends on how you define 'gamer'. If you define them as "people who always want the same old FPS games and nothing new", then you are right.

To Western 3rd parties, that's more or less all there is. So yeah, that's what I was referring to.

 

[bidaum]

Finally we can get Mario on the Unreal engine

 

[carlo6529]

Zelda on a >360 chipset would be nice. No more goddamn 7 polygon trees. Speaking of... SS a Wii 2 launch title?

This would piss me off to no end. I will not buy another new Nintendo console to play a zelda game made for the generation before. I did it for the Wii, I won't do it again.

Edit~ We technically still haven't got a new Zelda this console generation.

 

[Hot Coldman]

So a much better reveal than E3 2005 confirmed?

Wrong comparison, try E3 2006. And if it's better than that I'll eat my Nintendo Gamecube branded hat

 

[The M.O.B]

What I said is absolutely correct, the 4870 codename was RV770, the 4890 codename was RV790 etc. R700 only ever referred to the 4870x2 and if that's the part that's currently in dev kits then this machine will eventually be capable of running Epic's next generation demo in HD.

If Nintendo has anything close to that.....................smh they done turnt the game upside down on us.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

It's a shame that with all Nintendo platforms since DS it really feels like Nintendo is just like "oh god we're running out of things to do here what other bullshit can we add!? VITALITY SENSOR! Yes! And, uh, we can revive the VMU but in HD! Everybody was asking for that, right?"

Just use what works and REFINE it.

Let me talk to Nintendo personally, since he's in the room and I think I made him feel bad.

Look, Nintendo...

We've had enough unrefined generations from you, Nintendo. I am half starting to believe that is the problem with your games these gens, that you're so busy experimenting in trying to work around the gargantuan limitations in these devices versus what came before that the gameplay and/or overall quality suffers./

The problem is Amir0x, and please don't take offense to this, but you and your opinion is basically obsolete. Because your opinion belongs to a very small minority (though a majority on GAF), but in the grand schemes of things, a minority.

The DS is the best selling system of all-time and the Wii is fastest selling of all-time. There is no debating that. "Gimmicks" or what some like to call innovations, bring in MORE people. People who ENJOY Motion Control, people who enjoy Touch Screen, people who enjoy the Miis and Face Raiders and Nintendogs and Wii Sports and blah blah you get the point. People enjoy new experiences, and they buy it in droves if it's actually fun and appealing. Nintendo has proven that time and time again.

But honestly if you want refined traditonal gaming, stick with Sony. Obviously Nintendo and (sorta) Microsoft will be going in new directions in the future. Will they totally disown core-refined-traditional games? Of course not. But their main focus will be on making new and innovative products that yes might not be completely refined.

But me personally, I find it exciting. But yet I love motion control and touch screen and the Wii line and Brain Age....... and I haven't had enough of Nintendo's "unrefined" generations. Because if Wii is anything to go by for the next gen, then I never want to see the "refined" Nintendo of the Gamecube era again.

So basically I'm the minority here. Funny how that works.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Wrong comparison, try E3 2006. And if it's better than that I'll eat my Nintendo Gamecube branded hat

But E3 2005 just had the prototype Revolution and a CGI clip of MP3.

E3 2006 was FABULOUS! To say the least.

Having games being shown but not playable would be in-between, better than 2005, but not as good as 2006.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm all for refinement. However, I think that we need to consider the GOOD that's come out of Nintendo's hardware limitations in terms of their own games.

Basically, by working around the hardware and experimenting, they've been able to really focus on the core gameplay and goodness of games without too many distractions. Nintendo's developers are really impressive because they can put out incredible content even though they're competing with vastly superior hardware.

So basically, while we want them to not restrict themselves so much anymore, we should still allow them to experiment and to be, well, Nintendo. The last thing I want is for the company to lose the level of creativity that's brought them so far. While, obviously, less restrictions will allow Nintendo to be more free to build ambitious projects, we need to appreciate that they've thus far proven themselves most by producing top-tier software on lower-end hardware, and have put out some pretty darn interesting content because of it.

So really, I don't believe that quality of content has suffered, in Nintendo's case. Restrictions are unnecessary, but we should be happy that Nintendo still shows effort enough to work around them and provide the best content they can.

You don't lose creativity because you stop strapping every gadget and doodad your R&D team searches up on google and latches together for fifty cents. In fact, when you are able to stop worrying about the new set of limitations introduced by whatever unrefined gimmick is now being attached to your system, you can focus on nothing BUT good gameplay and nothing BUT being creative.

The reality for me is that for me this has been some of Nintendo's least creative generations I've seen. Certainly it has been wildly successful, no one is denying it. But they've been one massive disappointment after another, with only really Mario Galaxy (and I'm presuming Skyward Sword) really demonstrating anything super creative, even from a gameplay perspective. They've got a lot of "concepts", most unrefined. Shallow sports games - WITH MOTION! Shallow party games - WITH MOTION! Fitness games - WITH MOTION and a board. I mean, all these genres existed before and in better form. They've just been latched (successfully, obviously) to a really attractive mass market gimmick.

So obviously, as far as not thinking it hurt Nintendo, that's not something we'll find common ground on. This has been a terrible gen for Nintendo, and were it not for Mario Galaxy, almost complete unsalvageable from the creativity standpoint you're held up on.

The biggest problem with better hardware, I feel, is that is makes developers too confident that they're putting out something amazing, just by including high graphical fidelity and a bunch of features, even though core, focused gameplay, framerate, and other aspects may suffer.

This is just unfounded anxiety. There is no better chance of wrongly feeling your game is amazing on better hardware than there is on worse hardware.

 

[The M.O.B]

Why are we looking forward to the 26th?

I believe there is an investor meeting, so we will get some leaks from that.

 

[Vinci]

If Nintendo has anything close to that.....................smh they done turnt the game upside down on us.

Where are we getting that information from anyway?

 

[Amir0x]

The problem is Amir0x, and please don't take offense to this, but you and your opinion is basically obsolete. Because your opinion belongs to a very small minority (though a majority on GAF), but in the grand schemes of things, a minority.

The DS is the best selling system of all-time and the Wii is fastest selling of all-time. There is no debating that. "Gimmicks" or what some like to call innovations, bring in MORE people. People who ENJOY Motion Control, people who enjoy Touch Screen, people who enjoy the Miis and Face Raiders and Nintendogs and Wii Sports and blah blah you get the point. People enjoy new experiences, and they buy it in droves if it's actually fun and appealing. Nintendo has proven that time and time again.

But honestly if you want refined traditonal gaming, stick with Sony. Obviously Nintendo and (sorta) Microsoft will be going in new directions in the future. Will they totally disown core-refined-traditional games? Of course not. But their main focus will be on making new and innovative products that yes might not be completely refined.

But me personally, I find it exciting. But yet I love motion control and touch screen and the Wii line and Brain Age....... and I haven't had enough of Nintendo's "unrefined" generations. Because if Wii is anything to go by for the next gen, then I never want to see the "refined" Nintendo of the Gamecube era again.

So basically I'm the minority here. Funny how that works.

This is the type of argument people make when they can't make arguments.

"YOU'RE THE MINORITY SO THAT MEANS THESE THINGS ARE PROVEN TO WORK!"

False. The only thing this demonstrates are that people LIKE unrefined gimmicks and parlor tricks. But we've always known that. We've ALWAYS known that their speak about "gameplay" is a lie. What they want is to giggle like infants over magic tricks and "newness" for "newness"-sake. It speaks nothing to their refinement or their quality. Because as we all know, the masses are fucking fantastic for picking awful things and making them popular.

 

[Lonely1]

What I said is absolutely correct, the 4870 codename was RV770, the 4890 codename was RV790 etc. R700 only ever referred to the 4870x2 and if that's the part that's currently in dev kits then this machine will eventually be capable of running Epic's next generation demo in HD.

What worries me a bit is the RAM, do you believe Nintendo is short sighted enough to just include 512MB?