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Rumor: Wii 2 at E3; 6" Touch Controller [Up: Cafe Header On Nintendo Site, More]

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Willy105 said:
Analog sticks were not a boon for every genre either, they were noticeably inferior for any type of game that needed good response time, like fighters. Analog sticks were a much slower type of control input.

Literally no console ever tried to standardize analog sticks over digital directional input, though. Analog is a straight-up improvement if you can include it without eliminating d-pads in the process. Pointing is the same way -- a system that can still include a D-pad and two analogs benefits from having a way to do pointing control so it's an option to use appropriately, but not from having pointing step in as some kind of analog "replacement."
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Release in 2012 ? Reggie to appear with a GTA V tattoo on his belly ?
 

robor

Member
Skiesofwonder said:
So basically you're creating your own definitions for english words now.

Cool.

Analog wasn't a gimmick because it influenced and retained new forms of gameplay, yea? Wiimote+nunchuck trivializes past staple gameplay standards, yea? Therefore making Wii's controller are gimmick yea?

Yea.
 
DragonKnight said:
I feel like a broken record but if this thing is only marginally more powerful that the current HD offerings then no buy for me.

I want to believe. I really do...
According to wiki, the Xenos in 360 is comparable to a x1900
The r700 is reffering to a 4870x2, so compare the two specs:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/other/Pages/x1900-specifications.aspx (~360)

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...ages/ati-radeon-hd-4870X2-specifications.aspx (~wii2)
 

Orayn

Member
Bentendo said:
Could pointer functionality work with a traditional controller? Obviously it would WORK, but would it be as accessible as the Wii's pointer is?
No. Coupled with the fact that they're almost certainly keeping motion control, the morphing super controller conjecture is only getting stronger.
 

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
EmCeeGramr said:
I am so confused as to how a controller can have a screen, dual analogs, two bumpers, two triggers, and still maintain pointer functionality.
Same here. My guess is the touching screen on the controller acts the same way as the pointer would have on the Wii remote.

At that point, they aren't pointer controls anymore though.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
zoukka said:
I hope they aim their 1st party effort so that they run 60fps minimum still. I don't care about the resolution.

I would think it's going to be even easier with their new system. Nintendo isn't into the whole photo realistic style. Things aren't going to require insane poly counts for their games. They should be able to run 1080P and 60fps even if third parties can't. Different priorities. And it's cheaper from a software budget standpoint to push hardware in this way.
 
For those wondering how powerful the Wii 2 will be, we have good reason to think it will be powered by either the AMD Trinity, Krishna or Komodo SOC.

Rest of the post deleted...

Feep said:
I don't like this. DetectiveGAF may be jeopardizing the original poster's job. This is some serious stuff, and there is no true anonymity on this (or any) forum. He did post that stuff, but there's no reason to draw attention to it like this.

That's a good point.

Opus Angelorum said:
He disclosed it himself, fair game I say.

Regardless. There's no reason to jeopardize the guys job over this. Many people have already seen the relevent proof already. And for those that haven't, suffice it to say. The Wii 2 will almost certainly be powered by the AMD Trinity, Krishna or Komodo.
 

birdchili

Member
M74 said:
So if we're reverting back to dual-analog stick gamepads, where does that leave pointer mechanics? Is Nintendo admitting it just didn't work out so well, or are we expected to keep two entirely different sets of controllers?
the place where no second analog hurt them the most was camera control for third person games.

i can't imagine they'll ditch the pointer. it's too useful.

what about a 3ds-style slide-pad where the A-button is? perhaps "clickable" like the ps sticks and lockable in place for games that don't need the analog...
 

Zeliard

Member
charlequin said:
Pointer functionality is unquestionably a success. As a tool available to developers, it's a huge improvement for gaming and one that should be standard on every platform.

I honestly think it's fine if Nintendo keeps pointing standard as a secondary controller. If I were them, I'd sell the system with one each of an upgraded Wiimote Plus and a... whatever this new thing is in the box. You are basically never going to need both functionalities simultaneously, you can use the new system's controller for games that demand dual analog or other more traditional setups or the Wiimotes for motion games. Plus a large portion of their audience will already own one or more Wiimotes anyway.

I'd love it if that were the case because it adds to versatility in control configs. One of the things that's always bothered me about console gaming is its stark limitations in that area.

If Nintendo's new console (and even Move at the moment) can spur devs to start adding options for both pointer functionality and dual analog in games that would benefit from it, I think that'd be a great evolution for consoles. I'd love to see unrestricted access to mouse and keyboard and freedom in binding as well but I know that's not likely to happen.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Cerebral Assassin said:
Then why would you consider Pointer controls to be a gimmick, FPS's, RTS,s(theoretically anyway) hell any genre that requires a lot of menu interactions would(have) be(en) improved by pointer controls.

No, I don't consider it a gimmick. I just meant to emphasize that it was the only new "addition" that I want, out of the many gimmicks that they did include on the wiimote. I couldn't find the right language to separate it from the other additions - the actual gimmicks - while simultaneously noting it wasn't a gimmick.

The fact that it worked so well for most of the genres it was applied to logically by my own definition means it is not a gimmick.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
charlequin said:
Pointer functionality is unquestionably a success. As a tool available to developers, it's a huge improvement for gaming and one that should be standard on every platform.

I honestly think it's fine if Nintendo keeps pointing standard as a secondary controller. If I were them, I'd sell the system with one each of an upgraded Wiimote Plus and a... whatever this new thing is in the box. You are basically never going to need both functionalities simultaneously, you can use the new system's controller for games that demand dual analog or other more traditional setups or the Wiimotes for motion games. Plus a large portion of their audience will already own one or more Wiimotes anyway.

That's all cool and gravy but what about the "better then Move" motion controls in the Edge article? None of this junk is adding up anymore......
 

Deku

Banned
charlequin said:
In terms of "refined touch controls" both 3DS and NGP get rolled by the iPad, anyway, since the single most important factor for better touch gaming is a larger play area.

If you're dealing with games on a large screen, I can see the finger emulating the stylus.

As 3DS has chosen to kept the same general size of the DS with higher DPI, stylus control is still preferred.

But I think the ship's sailed long ago and I never though we'd be back discussing the merits of DS control schemes. I think the 2nd half of the DS life saw it used properly, without extremes of touch screen implemention (patronizing, gimmicky and reluctant)

That seems to have extended to the 3DS so far, with the touch panel now being firmly placed as an extended control method. the separation of the visual stimuli to the top screen has left the touch panel as an adhoc control method and room for extra buttons and map screens.
 

Vinci

Danish
Serenade said:
Same here. My guess is the touching screen on the controller acts the same way as the pointer would have on the Wii remote.

No way is that going to be as accurate. Seriously, they lose pointer control and they're morons on a special level of dumb.
 
Lupin the Wolf said:
I'm telling you guys: Remote Play-like "Super Wii" games streamed to the 3DS when played locally. "Don't have a 3D TV? Just pick up a 3DS and you can still play in 3D!" Naturally, that would have to be enabled on a per-game basis (No 2nd analog won't work for every game type), but still!

Who's with me?? Guys...??

To stream content doesnt mean that the whole game is being streamed. The content can be how many lives you have left, your health indicator...


Seriously, they lose pointer control and they're morons on a special level of dumb.

Wii2 is BC with Wii, so Wii2 will probably still use a sensor bar, maybe with WiiSpeak integrated
 
Orayn said:
It's a worst case scenario, but it still looks good. This is the first generation where developers have managed to build such a comprehensive library of middleware for the consoles of the day. When you realize how easy it is to port content to the 360, this suddenly becomes a wide open door.

I don't see how this looks good. Sony and Microsoft will come out with systems that will be significantly more powerful than the ones we have now and nintendo will be back in the same boat. I don't want another is this next gen or is this not next gen schism. At the very least, this thing needs to be able to run UE4.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
Oh man the controller is going to have StreetPass isn't it.
I wouldn't put it past them. They already meant for the wiimote to be sort of brought around with you when you went to other people's homes with a wii so you could use your own mii at any time. I loved the idea, so an expansion of it would be great. Might get a bit costly for us though.
 
Lonely1 said:
Dual analogs are great for what they were designed for: 3D platformers. They being the standard for FPS/TPS ,and aiming in general, bothers me to no end, though.

Do you mean for camera control or like everyone's favourite original Dual analog 3D platformer, Ape Escape?
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I'd be amazed if Nintendo abandon something as iconic and successful as the remote. Evolve it naturally, but jumping from something accessible like that to this rumoured clusterfuck would be baffling.

Pointing alone is why you keep it.
 
charlequin said:
That's the only strategy that makes any sense here.

You're Nintendo. You know that the next generation, absent any effort from you, will start in 2013, with systems that represent "generational" increases from PS3/360, but in a more conservative fashion -- in all likelihood, $299-ish boxes that use chips running on the cooler end of what's "up to date" upon release. (In other words: way ahead of current consoles, but not impressive compared to 2013 PCs.)

You also know that although keeping development costs down is important, a) you completely and utterly lost the battle of doing so by using low-powered hardware, b) fundamental cost issues are to some degree going to force it anyway (many companies literally can't afford to spend more money developing titles than they do now), and c) unlike Sony and Microsoft you have a variety of routes to produce extremely popular first-party software that displays in HD and looks great but doesn't have the cost issues of content-rich realistic-style graphics.

The thing to do in this situation is square the circle: launch early (to get some of the advantage the 360 enjoyed by building up an early library and early adopters) with a $299 system that's in the power-ballpark of the systems that'll follow a year later (like Niro said, a PS2 to their OG Xbox) after giving third parties a year and a half to work on it -- that'll ensure that you're getting all the multiplatform titles, plus maybe some exclusives from devs who are willing to try out your gimmick now that it's attached to a "graphically modern" system, and you'll retain the Nintendo first-party advantage.

Basically, when you get down to it, the motion control part of the Wii plan was a huge success but the underpowered part was a huge failure -- all its gangbuster sales can be credited to the unique software they were able to make using the Wiimote, but all its late-period declines can be attributed to the software they never got because third-parties refused to develop exclusives for the system and couldn't release multiplats for it. Refining motion control, adding minor new gimmick to sell to moms, and making a meaningful graphical jump that ideally sets the pace for the generation would let them consolidate several markets and compete much more effectively on software than they do currently.

Sadly, as always, the network is what'll sink this plan: Nintendo would need to have a PSN-level network structure at minimum and I honestly just can't even imagine that.



No, it really isn't. Increasing budgets have had huge qualitative effects on the way the industry operates. In the days of $2 million budgets, one could easily create a purely exclusive title and recoup off sales from a single platform. In the days of $40 million budgets, that's almost impossible for anything but the largest titles.

The network problem has already been solved though, just not by Nintendo. The ability to swallow some pride (and give away a little control) and give Gabe Newell a phone call is all that's required. When your company is completely incompetant at online infraastructure and you have someone else willing to port the best online API in the industry accross to your system for free, then its time to change tact. If you're trying to win western third party support then few gifts are going to have more sway than the higghest regarded suite of online gaming APIs and tools around.

I fear Nintendo are far too stubborn to ever entertain this though despite it being such a no brainer.
 
Vagabundo said:
So a 3DS is bundled with each Wii2?
No, just send game data for a Super Wii game, have street pass enabled, take 3DS anywhere with you. Get StreetPasses for those Super Wii games. Transfer back to Super Wii automatically since 3DS is always on, StreetPass, SpotPass, whatever.
 

BowieZ

Banned
*Hopes Project Cafe comes with a Nintendo espresso machine.

Amir0x said:
No, I don't consider it a gimmick. I just meant to emphasize that it was the only new "addition" that I want, out of the many gimmicks that they did include on the wiimote. I couldn't find the right language to separate it from the other additions - the actual gimmicks - while simultaneously noting it wasn't a gimmick.

The fact that it worked so well for most of the genres it was applied to logically by my own definition means it is not a gimmick.
lol
 

qq more

Member
I'd be very disappointed if motion controls were to be axed from the next system. There's still a lot of potential for it.




Also achievements are overrated, but that may be just me.
 

WillyFive

Member
DECK'ARD said:
I'd be amazed if Nintendo abandon something as iconic and successful as the remote. Evolve it naturally, but jumping from something accessible like that to this rumoured clusterfuck would be baffling.

Pointing alone is why you keep it.

I'm sure the controller will be a lot closer to the Wii remote than many here think. A lot of the rumors here may not have to be about the remote controller, it could be something else, like a Classic Controller.
 

Dennis

Banned
For those doubting the graphical prowess of R700, I am currently playing Crysis 2 at 2560x1600 resolution with one of those things.
 
Bentendo said:
Could pointer functionality work with a traditional controller? Obviously it would WORK, but would it be as accessible as the Wii's pointer is?


The only way I can see that working is if it possible to use the controller with one hand with a downward prong.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Deku said:
Yes back in 2006 I thought multi-touch would be a shoe in, but having used them on iOS onther other devices it is not precise enough nor is it practical enough to provide real evolution or refinement over resisitive screens, especially not when you need to deal with precise touch controls for DS BC.
Multitouch on iOS is far less precise than DS touchscreen. It works fine in Angry Birds, but the game would certainly play better with a stylus. Then, there is no way you could play a demanding game such as Yoshi Touch & Go on an iPhone.

Multitouch is usefull to simulate an analog stick, but it does it pretty poorly. Some games such as Fruit Ninja or Cut the Rope show its benefits over DS's touchscreen, but there's nothing to write home about.

I would like to see 3DS push touchscreen games further, such as a refined Flickr Football's gameplay in a full, ambitious soccer game. With its efficient 3D engine, 3DS has lots of potential to explore with its touchscreen, certainly more than on the DS.

At last touchscreen on an iPhone is practical because you can easily reach the screen. On NGP that is not the case at all. As much as I love Uncharted, its touchscreen elements in the demo we saw looked cumbersome. At a moment I feared he would drop the console on the ground. Rear touchscreen was certainly added for this reason, to compensate the screen accessibility design issue. And that looks like a genius move from Sony.

Still not convinced it will make 3DS's touchscreen irrelevant, both are unique and will provide different gameplay experiences.
 

cnizzle06

Banned
Am I the only person who thinks having scalable pressure-resistance built into the triggers and analog sticks of a controller would be really cool and innovative?
 

Sirius

Member
As long as it can do 720p HD @ 60fps (1080p would be a bonus) I'm sold.. I've spent generations dreaming about Nintendo titles in pristine HD.. this becoming a reality (and at a fluid screen refresh rate for all those playing the HD emulators at home) is a dream come true.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
WrikaWrek said:
Wait a minute!

Maybe this has something to do with Kojima's next game?

1zx9lkp.jpg
 
Nintendo's online woes is more of an issue of different priorities rather than incompetence. That's what I think at least. But maybe they really don't understand how "internets" work and need someone else to do the job for them.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Amir0x said:
It's a shame that with all Nintendo platforms since DS it really feels like Nintendo is just like "oh god we're running out of things to do here what other bullshit can we add!? VITALITY SENSOR! Yes! And, uh, we can revive the VMU but in HD! Everybody was asking for that, right?"

Just use what works and REFINE it.

Let me talk to Nintendo personally, since he's in the room and I think I made him feel bad.

Look, Nintendo...

We've had enough unrefined generations from you, Nintendo. I am half starting to believe that is the problem with your games these gens, that you're so busy experimenting in trying to work around the gargantuan limitations in these devices versus what came before that the gameplay and/or overall quality suffers./
Well, I think Nintendo has been rather unconfidently working on a rather risky strategy that they accidentally happened upon with the DS. From what I understand, DS was rushed out of the gate to meet the surprise threat of the PSP, which is why it was so ugly and wasn't called Gameboy Something.

When DS beat the living crap out of PSP it surprised even Nintendo, and this lead to the Wii. But even back then Nintendo did not show much confidence in Wii. They kept saying they were happy being a 3rd place console and stuff like that. But it ended up being a hit and they started trying to convert non-gamers into gamers. I'm not sure if that really worked but I am happy that they handled it by putting optional new-gamer-friendly features into their core games that didn't dumb the games down for the veterans. Wii not being able to output HD despite the games being capable of it was a big mistake, though.

I think what they would be trying to do with Wii2 is to take this expanded market they've generated and combine it with the HDz market on PS3 and 360. If they can butter up the devs enough they might create a situation similar to what happened when PS2 got out of the door a year ahead of GCN and XBox where devs were already invested in PS2 and barely gave the other consoles the light of day despite obvious power superiority. But I think for this to work the Wii2 should have better graphics than PS3 and 360... or something to differentiate it enough to get 3rd party support and differentiate it from Sony and MS's next gen efforts to keep the 3rd parties on board.

So basically Nintendo has been gambling with new market strategies and so far it's paid off.
 

apana

Member
Speaking of Kojima, Metal Gear Solid Rising would be a great launch title for this machine. Assuming it has motion controls "better" than move.
 

BowieZ

Banned
H_Prestige said:
Nintendo's online woes is more of an issue of different priorities rather than incompetence. That's what I think at least. But maybe they really don't understand how "internets" work and need someone else to do the job for them.
Maybe their $1bn R&D went primarily into hiring Al Gore?
 
Hideo Kojima will say "Wow, this [INSERT_NEW_INTERFACE] is the greatest thing ever. It's what I always wanted. I'm really excited and filled with ideas." and then he'll just keep making MGS games for standard platforms.
 

Vinci

Danish
H_Prestige said:
Nintendo's online woes is more of an issue of different priorities rather than incompetence. That's what I think at least. But maybe they really don't understand how "internets" work and need someone else to do the job for them.

Which is why, along with Brain Stew, I would kill to see Nintendo embrace Steam. Just give it to Valve. Let them deal with it.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
ace3skoot said:
sooo basically i get a free NGP to go with my wii2? EPIC!
NGP is the best controller I can think of. A bit expensive, but it's only missing a pointer to be perfect.
 
Skiesofwonder said:
That's all cool and gravy but what about the "better then Move" motion controls in the Edge article? None of this junk is adding up anymore......

The Wiimote Plus is already better than Move. By virtue of having to work around Nintendo's patents, Sony's solution works better for 1:1 crap (which isn't tremendously useful or important) at the expense of being less precise for pointing (which is the most beneficial part of motion control.)

Zeliard said:
If Nintendo's new console (and even Move at the moment) can spur devs to start adding options for both pointer functionality and dual analog in games that would benefit from it, I think that'd be a great evolution for consoles.

Yes, especially since Sony will almost certainly ship with Move 2 day-and-date on the PS4. If people have to play shooters on consoles, moving to a world where they utilize superior-to-dual-analogs pointer controls would be a very good step.

Deku said:
If you're dealing with games on a large screen, I can see the finger emulating the stylus.

That's basically what I'm saying, yes. Multitouch opens up more possibilities but the only way to take advantage of it without costing yourself precision is to increase the playfield with a tablet-sized screen.

Anyway, I'm fine with the specific touch on both 3DS and NGP, I don't think Nintendo were wrong to carry forward a stylus or anything since I'm certainly going to need it when EO4 hits. I'm fine (more than fine, really) with a situation where the iPad is pushing the technological edges of what touch gaming is capable of while the dedicated handhelds are using touch as one element in a broader control palette that also includes traditional controls.
 

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
Vinci said:
No way is that going to be as accurate. Seriously, they lose pointer control and they're morons on a special level of dumb.
It's the only way I can picture this weird controller retaining the pointer functionality (in some form) from the Wii remote.
 
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