Graphics Horse
Member
hah did I really type that?
I think I'd be OK if the OS was just a big Bowser.
I think I'd be OK if the OS was just a big Bowser.
Games will only have less graphics than the PS4X720, simple job of settings, the ports won't need total rewrite and redo.
Also, nothing new in this thread, and i guess i can add another line in my previous assessement of things leaked being right, about this 1gb for games.
Now we must wait for further info on the amount of ram taken by all the system services.
Wii U will certainly be weaker than PS4 or XB3 but it will definitely exceed current gen by a noticeable margin and likely not be exceeded by that same size margin by the rest of next gen machines. A super over powered machine from Sony is just not going to happen without the risk of Sony going under.
http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/08/the-ten-year-decline-of-sony/
Basically Wii U's GPU should have nearly identical feature sets to PS4/XB3 no matter the difference in performance, also PS4's target specs (from Sony of course) put it somewhere in the 2-3X Wii U range [~600-800GFLOPs vs 1843GFLOPs] XB3 on the other hand, MS was targeting 2TBs in that leaked document, Epic said UE4 would need multiple TFLOPs of performance from the cards, then more recently said that UE4 would require 1TFLOPs+ and we then hear that EPIC is begging these guys to make more powerful boxes.
Basically Wii U's GPU should have nearly identical feature sets to PS4/XB3 no matter the difference in performance, also PS4's target specs (from Sony of course) put it somewhere in the 2-3X Wii U range [~600-800GFLOPs vs 1843GFLOPs] XB3 on the other hand, MS was targeting 2TBs in that leaked document, Epic said UE4 would need multiple TFLOPs of performance from the cards, then more recently said that UE4 would require 1TFLOPs+ and we then hear that EPIC is begging these guys to make more powerful boxes.
And the floor demos shows a full scene (From a different angle and position) also being rendered on the GamePad
Looks great but again not seeing any effects not done no current gen systems. Maybe the texture resolution would suffer on the other two systems, but not seeing much else.
I mean, we pore over tiny differences between Xbox and PS3 multiplatforms, when the Xbox and PS3 are almost completely equal in CPU, GPU, RAM. Omg! The PS3 version looks exactly the same but has 5% more tearing! The sky is falling! What do you think will happen to the Wii U?
I'm fine with these "specs". So we have "the all-new, Power-based microprocessor will pack some of IBM's most advanced technology into an energy-saving silicon package" with equivalent Broadway functionality tacked on... I don't think any amount of PR spin can call a trio of overclocked Broadways "all-new" or "most advanced." Without more info this CPU could literally be anything...
Everything I've heard about the (GP?)GPU has been good. If their Proprietary API is fine tuned for what it's capable of, we should see some things looking MUCH better than current PS360, we just won't see it done with launch titles... (Have we ever? ...Factor 5 doesn't count, they were wizards...)
Everything I've heard about the (GP?)GPU has been good. If their Proprietary API is fine tuned for what it's capable of, we should see some things looking MUCH better than current PS360, we just won't see it done with launch titles... (Have we ever? ...Factor 5 doesn't count, they were wizards...)
As blu mentioned (I defer to him because he knows a lot more about graphics programming than I do), he sees some Global Illumination trickery/fakery/simulation that he hasn't seen on current gen systems.
Remember also it's rendering two distinct scenes.
Can I ask what it is specifically you're looking for that would make you say "Current gen can't do that"?
What I will tell you, is that when Wii U games start to look better then 360/PS4 people will say "I can't tell the difference" or "LOL, welcome to current gen Nintendo"
Yes, every generation of consoles has had launch titles that were much better than the prior gen. The Wii and now Wii-U look to be the only exceptions to this trend.
Yes, every generation of consoles has had launch titles that were much better than the prior gen. The Wii and now Wii-U look to be the only exceptions to this trend.
Isn't using the Zelda demo a bit silly at this point? Just as you guys are quick to say "the new dev kits are more powerful!" or whatever, we really have no idea what Nintendo programmed that Zelda demo on, and it probably has little relation to the actual final Wii hardware. Plus, it was a tech demo. Show me a game...
Umm, Wii U's GPU is likely Dx10, no matter what anybody says. PS4/720 are DX11.
2nd, lets say the Wii U's GPU is 600 gflops. I STRONGLY doubt this as the games to date certainly show NOTHING that indicates a GPU 2x-3x more powerful than PS3/360, but lets be optimistic and say it's actually true. Rumored PS4 specs put the GPU at 3X that as you note.
RAM, Wii U has 1GB for games versus rumored 2-4GB for PS4. Lets again be optimistic for Wii U and use 2GB for PS4. You still under this best case have a PS4 with 2X RAM, 3X+GPU, and a better CPU (given all the rumors of weak Wii U CPU).
I think that, best case for Wii U, would still leave a situation where Wii U is ignored by third parties and hardcore consumers. Especially when the 2nd screen will be sucking up a significant % of what few precious resources the Wii U has.
I mean, we pore over tiny differences between Xbox and PS3 multiplatforms, when the Xbox and PS3 are almost completely equal in CPU, GPU, RAM. Omg! The PS3 version looks exactly the same but has 5% more tearing! The sky is falling! What do you think will happen to the Wii U?
It seems in terms of tech that Wii U is not next gen. Oh well, so far that the games are good and I hope it is not very expensive.
I don't know that anything happening now makes it clear. Other than specifics like Bing, this post probably could've been made at least any time since the GameCube reveal.fritolay said:Nintendo has now made it clear, they are in a different league than Sony and Microsoft.
They will keep costs low and keep profit margins going to keep the money flowing in. They rely on their own IP to keep system sales going. That is pretty much it.
The other companies will take a loss with hardware sales, or great loss, push other agendas (Bing & TV sales) to grab market share and then make more money of dashboard ads, etc.
The home console market has officially split.
You know DX11 is just DX10.1 with a unified shader architecture for tesselation and GPU acceleration. AMD and Nvidia BOTH had shaders for tesselation and GPU acceleration before DX11 (AMD had tesselation way back in the 9000 series of GPUs, nvidia had CUDA for a couple years), all DX11 did was make them both go a unified route to accomplish it and a few other things.
There is no reason why a "DX 10.1" GPU couldn't do all DX11 features via shaders... It's only a negative on the PC market because software can run on any number of hardware, and if there isn't a unified structure it makes code inefficient or incompatible between different hardware. On a console, this is absolutely null and void. ALL Wii U software will be designed specifically for Wii U hardware, thus you can easily create DX11 features even on "lesser" feature set hardware.
You are correct.
I would say one thing though in regards to tesselation, that will choke that Wii U GPU as it will obviously be lowered powered and slower (obvious power draw and heat concerns).
Having just read a post by someone expecting a 12 x power leap over PS360 from PS4 / 720, does anyone think that if the Wii U is a massive success MS and Sony would cut back on the specs for the new consoles so they don't lose as much money per console sold.
How much would they be losing on a 12 x power leap console if it was priced at $400 ?, like $200 or something :O.
From what i have read Sony in particular would be in real danger and despite many people thinking MS have 'unlimited money' they are a business at the end of the day and want every product they sell to turn a profit.
Even the 3DS supports tessellation. There are a number of ways to use a tessellator, it's not just there to make things look smoother on powerful platforms. It can also be used to increase efficiency, especially on more limited hardware.You are correct.
I would say one thing though in regards to tesselation, that will choke that Wii U GPU as it will obviously be lowered powered and slower (obvious power draw and heat concerns).
Doubtful, and I hope not. Console gaming will die if all 3 of them go the underpowered route.
I mean, they would have learned that from the Wii if anything...and by the time the WiiU can really be deemed a success the 720/PS4 will be out. It's not like they just decide on specs one day and ship the thing the next.
Having just read a post by someone expecting a 12 x power leap over PS360 from PS4 / 720, does anyone think that if the Wii U is a massive success MS and Sony would cut back on the specs for the new consoles so they don't lose as much money per console sold.
You know DX11 is just DX10.1 with a unified shader architecture for tesselation and GPU acceleration. AMD and Nvidia BOTH had shaders for tesselation and GPU acceleration before DX11 (AMD had tesselation way back in the 9000 series of GPUs, nvidia had CUDA for a couple years), all DX11 did was make them both go a unified route to accomplish it and a few other things.
There is no reason why a "DX 10.1" GPU couldn't do all DX11 features via shaders... It's only a negative on the PC market because software can run on any number of hardware, and if there isn't a unified structure it makes code inefficient or incompatible between different hardware. On a console, this is absolutely null and void. ALL Wii U software will be designed specifically for Wii U hardware, thus you can easily create DX11 features even on "lesser" feature set hardware.
Even the 3DS supports tessellation. There are a number of ways to use a tessellator, it's not just there to make things look smoother on powerful platforms. It can also be used to increase efficiency, especially on more limited hardware.
Wii U will certainly be weaker than PS4 or XB3 but it will definitely exceed current gen by a noticeable margin and likely not be exceeded by that same size margin by the rest of next gen machines. A super over powered machine from Sony is just not going to happen without the risk of Sony going under.
So you're saying U will surpass PS360 by a wider margin (graphically) than PS420 will surpass U? Are you basing this on the U being a secret power house--suggesting all the leaked developer comments are just made up bullshit by lazy/incompetent programers? Or are you assuming the PS420 are going to be cheap pieces of shit with barely 2-3x the processing power of PS360?
As someone else already mentioned, we can't keep going by multipliers to determine the power of a console. You also have no way of knowing if the Wii-U GPU really will have identical feature-set as the other the GPU in the other two systems. Besides just about every rumor I've seen indicates the GPU is DX10.1 spec where the GPU in the PS4/720 will most surely be DX11.1 spec.
Looks great but again not seeing any effects not done no current gen systems. Maybe the texture resolution would suffer on the other two systems, but not seeing much else.
Per nintendo's docs the GPU's API "GX2" Supports some features greater than SM 4. SM4 is just given as a point of reference. Ill post the detail later when I have the time.
and on a side note:
Wow vgleaks.com didnt even change a single word or my formatting... That part is kind of sad. I should have made something up just to make them(and who ever "shared" my discussion) look bad![]()
You can't really just change the definitions of things to better fit your own personal preferences.
I mean, you can. But you would look wrong and foolish.
The Wii U isn't a new iteration of an old system though. It's Nintendo's Next Gen system.There have been new iterations of old consoles that weren't consider to be in the next generation in the past, why should the Wii U be any different?
Wii U will be "2-3x" the PS360, that magical number you are stating above or 600-800GFLOPs.
PS4/XB3 is rumored to be no more than 2TFLOPs (PS4 is targeting 1.843TFLOPs) which is only "2-3x" Wii U.
This is the source of the article, He says Wii U's GPU exceeds DX10.1 (which isn't used in a console anyways)
Antonz a Wii U developer has said the GPU has 2012 bells and whistles. (this implies DX11 from a source who has actually worked with the Wii U, unlike Arkam who has only heard it from co workers)
and DX11.1 is a very minor upgrade over DX11, also DX10.1 is a HUGE upgrade over DX9, that virtually has to fake everything that was added in DX10 and DX10.1
That's debatable.The Wii U isn't a new iteration of an old system though. It's Nintendo's Next Gen system.
Who's changing them then? Next generation has always been related to an increase in power. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, etc..
There have been new iterations of old consoles that weren't consider to be in the next generation in the past, why should the Wii U be any different?
This is the source of the article, He says Wii U's GPU exceeds DX10.1 (which isn't used in a console anyways)
Antonz a Wii U developer has said the GPU has 2012 bells and whistles. (this implies DX11 from a source who has actually worked with the Wii U, unlike Arkam who has only heard it from co workers)
and DX11.1 is a very minor upgrade over DX11, also DX10.1 is a HUGE upgrade over DX9, that virtually has to fake everything that was added in DX10 and DX10.1
Who's changing them then? Next generation has always been related to an increase in power. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, etc..
There have been new iterations of old consoles that weren't consider to be in the next generation in the past, why should the Wii U be any different?
Developers themselves consider the Wii U to be a bridge between gerations.
Per nintendo's docs the GPU's API "GX2" Supports some features greater than SM 4. SM4 is just given as a point of reference. Ill post the detail later when I have the time.
No... The fact that it 'plays the same games as 360/PS3' means nothing. The Wii is Nintendo's current gen system. The Wii U is their next. This is not debatable.It will be playing the same games as the PS3/360. It will not be playing Next Gen games. It's Nintendo's current gen system.
Wii U will certainly be weaker than PS4 or XB3 but it will definitely exceed current gen by a noticeable margin and likely not be exceeded by that same size margin by the rest of next gen machines.
N64 to GameCube were both 32bit systems.
Because the Wii U has extremely different innards to the Wii.
Yes, it's their next console. That's not debatable, what's debatable is if it belongs to this gen or the next.No... The fact that it 'plays the same games as 360/PS3' means nothing. The Wii is Nintendo's current gen system. The Wii U is their next. This is not debatable.
Once again, Nintendo is doing a short-life period machine like Wii was. They can manage to do a better hardware than this and still manage to profit. Iwata is completely lost in the dark with his "low costs, high profita" philosophy who's starting to get stale and can hurt Nintendo's credibilty as a console maker.
My guess is, I dont think you can just add a dab of DX11 to a DX10 GPU. Nor do I think Nintendo would bother with that expense. If they did that they would have used something besides R7XX to begin with.
Short-life? Like 5 years or so? Like every gen before this one? I'd say that's more... Average-life.Once again, Nintendo is doing a short-life period machine like Wii was. They can manage to do a better hardware than this and still manage to profit. Iwata is completely lost in the dark with his "low costs, high profita" philosophy who's starting to get stale and can hurt Nintendo's credibilty as a console maker.
No it's not debatable. Power doesn't define generations. We've had this argument SO many times before. It's always been by release date before. Always. The idea that this should change this gen is ridiculous.Metalmurphy said:Yes, it's their next console. That's not debatable, what's debatable is if it belongs to this gen or the next.
lol. Short life span (between 5-6 yrs) is the norm.
Short-life? Like 5 years or so? Like every gen before this one? I'd say that's more... Average-life.
And Iwata lost in the dark? LOL. His interviews show he's one of the most level headed/intelligent people in this industry. But since he's not doing what you want, of course he's lost in the dark.
No it's not debatable. Power doesn't define generations. We've had this argument SO many times before. It's always been by release date before. Always. The idea that this should change this gen is ridiculous.
That's debatable.
So did SG-1000 and the Master System.
Yes, it's their next console. That's not debatable, what's debatable is if it belongs to this gen or the next.
Developers agree:
http://www.**********.com/?mode=viewstory&id=174909