Playing devil's advocate here, they might be able to say the same about the CPU, GPU and RAM if the differences in those are huge.
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Playing devil's advocate here, they might be able to say the same about the CPU, GPU and RAM if the differences in those are huge.
Saint Gregory
Member
I actually didn't mean that as a slight. Nintendo should be thanking Ubi for Just Dance everyday. If it weren't for that game the Wii decline in the US would have started much sooner than it did.
It is good to seem them releasing general catalog games like AC3 on Wii U though, it at least means that they don't see the U as mainly an experimental console like they treated the Wii.
Only 3rd parties know what the dividing line will be. I think the practical effect of the WII U will be the extension of the operating life of the 360 and PS3. Depending on where that dividing line is we may well see WIIU/360/PS3 and a PS4/720/PC split. Or if the divide isn't that great there will be no split and then maybe the WII U will be the lead platform by splitting the difference.
Oh I agree. There is a perception change for sure. While the gamepad changes things up to a degree it keeps things similar enough that there isn't a need to differentiate for the sake of differentiate. They can bring the normal titles with tweaks
Lets have look:
Code:
EAD 1: Mario Kart 7 (2011)
EAD 2: Animal Crossing 3DS (2012), Nintendo Land (2012)
EAD 3: Skyward Sword (2011), confirmed to be working on a Wii U game
EAD 4: New Super Mario Bros U (2012), Pikmin 3 (2013)
EAD 5: Star Fox 64 3D (2011), Wii Fit U (2013)
EAD Tokyo 1: Ocarina of Time 3D (2011)
EAD Tokyo 2: Mario 3D Land (2011)
SPD 1: Kiki Trick (2011), Friends Collection 2 (2012)
SPD 2: Style Savvy 2 (2012)
SPD 3: Pilotwings Resort (2011)
SPD 4: Wii Party (2010)
SPD 5: ???
SDD: ???
Retro: Mario Kart 7 (2011), confirmed to be working on a Wii U game
Monolith Tokyo: Xenoblade (2010), confirmed to be working on a Wii U game
Monolith Kyoto: New studio, works on a 3DS game
NDcube: Mario Party 9 (2012)
IntSys: Paper Mario 3DS (2012), Crashmo (2012), Wario Ware (2013)
Brownie Brown: Mario 3D Land (2011), Fantasy Life (2012)
NST: Crosswords Plus (2012)Doesn't look like they were picking their noses, right? Most of the teams are/ were busy working on 3DS games.
theviolenthero
Member
I wasn't referring to the entire lifespan of the Wii.
I was talking about the last 3 years, 2010,2011 & 2012.
Almost every company saw a DRAMATIC drop in Wii software sales thus that's why they dropped support despite the Wii's large install base.
The quote below pretty much sums up what happened. this was for 2010:
In fact, year-over-year Wii software sales for EA have plummeted 82% while DS software sales have dropped 64%. That's more than the 10-year-old PS2 which saw its software sales for EA drop by 28%. And even with that, the PS2 generated $29 million compared to the Wii's $25 million. The DS generated a paltry $8 million, and the PSP didn't fare much better, down 15% to $17 million.
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-ds-software-sales-continue-to-plummet-at-ea/
Do you guys think it's possible for the U to run Wii games while retaining some OS "awareness"?
I'm wondering if it will be possible to be in "Wii" mode but still send the image to the tablet. I know there's people in here who may be able to offer an educated guess - whaddya think?
I'm wondering if it will be possible to be in "Wii" mode but still send the image to the tablet. I know there's people in here who may be able to offer an educated guess - whaddya think?
We already know. Its just like the Wii with gc games. It essentially turns into a wii and no function of wii u can be used. Even os level iirc.
chertipros
Member
So we can't see Wii Games in the miiverse? Makes sense I guess. Does this method save money for nintendo?
Fourth Storm
Member
Actually, I believe OS access in some form is in. 3DS can do so with legacy titles as well.
As for Wii games on the tablet, it would be great but I don't see it happening.
DOOMED ...
lol, what a horrible list of games. Hopefully Wii U doesn't have a lineup like that.
chertipros
Member
1: The majority of those games aren't even bad
2: You can't judge a systems entire library of games by the games that sold the most
It shows that the previous poster was right in that only Nintendo games were really selling and the stuff that sold was shit.
Nintendo needed to drop Wii to get a system that third partys could put their big games on, since their original Wii efforts did poorly (aside from the crap on that list.)
I've seen a lot of people say that we already know, but I don't know how we already know that. How old is whatever source that's from? Or do we have a definitively good and final answer/reason that it just isn't possible?
Because I realize it will be "Wii" mode and be "dumb". I have a 3DS and play DS games with it - I get it. What I'm wondering is if it's possible that the U has enough OS RAM and ... Whatever the hell else it would need =) to run the game, in "Wii" mode, on the tablet.
I mean, does it have enough RAM? Is it possible for something to sit "over" the emulator and in real-time change the resolution and send the video to the pad? Can't the pad controller be used for a Wii game? Why is it confirmed to be not possible?
If we believe what GAF has to say, neither did publishers. But.... meh, they aren't my companies saying no to money.
Problem has always been that "demographics" aren't measured as well for games as they are for things like TV (and even TV demo numbers are kinda shit), so putting faith in something that involves a lot of guesswork to determine what to sell where because there's no consumer dialog is troublesome for everyone involved and is part of why demographic-targeted content rarely ever succeeds in this industry.
frankie_baby
Member
I'd hardly say EA's sales drop was to do with it being the Wii and more to do with them putting out shite on thewWii
Samurai_Heart
Member
It saves them from the headaches that come with backward compatibility problems, see PS2/1 games emulated on PS3; basically this ensures that all Wii games work without problems appearing, thus no complaints, no need to waste money fixing a certain games' compatibility problem.
of course they can. They did exactly that with Wii and it sold the most units.
What they care about is if the games they make will sell to the buyers of that console, and the costs to develop for that consoles are small enough to justify development. In the case of the Wii, that equation clearly didn't balance so it wasn't supported.
With the WiiU? who knows. Its clearly a better equation for PS3/360 multiplatform games - more power, more standard architecture for shaders etc, dual analogs with buttons etc. If they can get their multiplatform teams up to speed quickly enough, it has a good chance of being a standard platform for this generation's multiplatform games.
PS4 and 720 though is a different kettle of fish. I don't see any major 3rd parties leading with development on WiiU (for multiplatform games), and whether it gets any downports depends on how powerful PS4/720 are.
Basically I think in the same way about it.
In fact I speak about it in the past, like have "2 configurations".
I'm not sure than the life of x360-ps3 is near to the end.
Not surprising, given that in the past, they didn't have a significant headstart to their competition. I'm sure they are going to fuck up any competition's launch as well in 2013.
I agree, I fully expect the majority of next-gen games to have PS360 versions at least through the end of 2014. When you're spending that sort of money on development you want to be able to sell to as many people as possible. Six-platform development (360, PS3, PC, WiiU, PS4, XBox3) could well be the norm for a while.
Hopefully though, Wii U support doesn't end when PS360 support dries up.
I agree with this. It will be a situation of downports to Wii U not upports from it. Two main reasons I see for this.
1) There are two consoles of the same power next gen so for a little more work you get two beautiful versions as opposed to them all looking "average"
2) I expect publishers to still go for that AAA market with full force.
They can try but I don't think they will fuck up any launch. They release any game, or number of games, they want on or around a system launch. If someone is planning to pick up one of the consoles, they'll get the game while they are out picking up the console.
People thought the same thing about FFVIII during the DC's launch and it that didn't stop Sega from selling out. Both MS and Sony have much more mindshare now than Sega did back then too.
Agreed. Nintendo has a shit show in hell of disrupting the launches of MS/SONY, although I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't already know this, or care. Massive mindshare in the 360 with far superior technology, DVR and all the jazz will probably make it look like a very complete system.
And be your bottom dollar that MS come out with some massive showcase of a title to show the system's power.
By volume, I recall "Jokerpedia" stating that third parties sold the most software on Wii despite the mountains of shit they decided to release.
Certain third party engine makers agree with you.
superchunk
Member
Nintendo moved on as it was apparent 3rd parties had.
3rd parties didn't move on because their software flopped, they never brought the AAA software in the first place. They didn't want to invest on a engine to port big games down. COD is realistically the only title that did and it sold over 1m every time... even though it was never advertised, had worse graphics, and less features.
Had 3rd parties put the same AAA content with the same down port treatment COD had, Wii would have done even better than its nearly 100m sales it currently has and there are many people who'd still only own one console; myself included.
I'm glad WiiU is coming so I can sell my PS3 and go back to single console ownership.
The idea that the only titles that sold were crapware is because that is all that was offered, not because the rest wouldn't have sold.
RE4 sold great. (last gen port)
MP3 sold great. (yes, its obviously nintendo, but still example of more core oriented game)
all CODs sold great.
on rails shooters (a little niche group) sold great for their base
Then you have other new exclusive great games like zack&wiki MadWorld that sold great for a new IP.
3rd parties created their own situation on Wii. The base was there but it had to consider other options because the content never came. Had AAA titles been on Wii from the beginning with the similar COD style treatment, they would have done fine. Been very profitable for the companies. Hell, there would probably be a few more devs around right now. But they foolishly chose high dev costs with the false idea that there were no core gamers on Wii.
You don't sale 40m units in your first two years and not have a core base.
Agreed as well. Of course, that's not to say Nintendo won't have a great holiday next year either.
Oh absolutely. What I said should in no way suggest I think Nintendo are "doomed". In fact I think they are being extremely smart with the Wii U and I am VERY excited about the GamePad and what Nintendo brings to gaming. My preorder was in as soon as I could go it.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
NA?
Sure.
Rest of the world (more like Europe as Japan is firmly in the hands of Nintendo)?
Maybe.
Ah, so it is called Espresso. I called that, like, forever ago.
(yeah, I haven't been around much lately)
There is also the possibility that there's is actually a noticable difference between the other two consoles this time around. For all we know we could end up in a situation were the gap between PS4 and the xbox720 is as large as between the weaker one and WiiU. In that case it might be sensible to target the middle console and the stronger one will get minor improvements and the WiiU get downports, but with lesser differences than in your scenario.
Yeah, at this point, people need to be ready for the idea that the PS4 and 720 won't be at parity. Especially if they don't make it out at the same time.
snowdog1971
Banned
The Wii had a nonstandard rendering pipeline, the U has traditional programable shaders. Publishers won't ignore a console with a vastly superior installed userbase that's easy to port games to and from next gen. Assuming that the PS4 and 720 are released the same sort of time next year the U should have an installed userbase between 10 and 15m, publishers aren't going to leave money on the table.
Imo ZombiU is going to sell over a million before Christmas which will show publishers that 'hardcore' titles can be successful on the U as long as developers make some sort of effort developing the game and publishers make some sort of effort with marketing.
The Call of Duty franchise has always done well on the Wii with slightly gimped SKUs, as has FIFA so Black Ops 2 and FIFA 13 should perform well enough, I can see Assassins Creed 3 doing reasonably and Rayman Legends should also do over a million in a few months.
The only title I can see struggling is Mass Effect 3 for obvious reasons.
You've also got to take into account the retail prices of the PS4 and 720, if Sony are going for a console with 4GB of RAM and a GPU pushing 1.8GFLOPS and Microsoft are going for a console with 8GB of RAM and a GPU pushing 1GFLOP+ then there's no way they'll be under 400 dollars/pounds. We could see both consoles having similar problems to the Vita unless they start cutting costs. That's why I'm personally expecting 2GB of RAM and 6GB of RAM due to the costs involved but even if they do decide to go for the upper range the U will still be able to supply up-ports to and receive down-ports from the PS4 and 720 with a small graphical difference.
Unless the PS4 and 720 are as cheap as chips Nintendo have 'won' this gen before it's even started imo.
Hmm. I thought all speculation was pointing towards them being essentially even?
Missed ya bro.
I vaguely remember something like 1.2 and 1.8TFlop being thrown around and differing RAM amounts from like 2-8GB. So speculation was a bit varied, but I guess there's an assumption that devs would target both or games would be portable enough between them to treat them as equal.
And one thing to note about PC as a target, most treat it as the highest end...which it is, but it also ranges all over the place with all the different hardware out there, so they have to be pretty scalable unless they target only the high end. I think integrated GPUs are the most widespread (and have been improving quickly in recent years) so those could be a loose baseline for performance going forward.
Something like low/med/high settings analogy could work out basically, at least in the short-medium term. Longer term is a bigger question mark, I imagine costs vs returns would be the biggest deal as far as Wii U is concerned, while on the PC side they'd be able to push higher resolutions and/or better effects as integrated hardware continues to improve.
(This is all with a caveat cause CPUs are another story, PCs will probably continue to destroy console CPUs across the range)
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I see Chartz. :[
Even excluding ports and keeping it to your "originiated on" standard:
Xbox 360
Amped 3 (2K Sports)
Condemned: Criminal Origins (Sega)* PC multi
Dead or Alive 4 (Tecmo)
Ridge Racer 6 (Namco)
PlayStation 3
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire (Bandai)
Wii U
ESPN Sports Connection (Ubisoft)
Family Party: 30 Great Games Obstacle Arcade (D3)
Game Party Champions (Warner Bros.)
Rabbids Land (Ubisoft)
Rayman Legends (Ubisoft)
Scribblenauts Unlimited (Warner Bros.)* PC multi
ZombiU (Ubisoft)
Yeah, you should probably take another look at this past gen and see exactly what 360 and PS3 launched with. Wii U has an equal or stronger upfront commitment from nearly every major publisher.
Even excluding ports and keeping it to your "originiated on" standard:
Xbox 360
Amped 3 (2K Sports)
Condemned: Criminal Origins (Sega)* PC multi
Dead or Alive 4 (Tecmo)
Ridge Racer 6 (Namco)
PlayStation 3
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire (Bandai)
Wii U
ESPN Sports Connection (Ubisoft)
Family Party: 30 Great Games Obstacle Arcade (D3)
Game Party Champions (Warner Bros.)
Rabbids Land (Ubisoft)
Rayman Legends (Ubisoft)
Scribblenauts Unlimited (Warner Bros.)* PC multi
ZombiU (Ubisoft)
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I already defined Ubi as the outlier, who seems to support the Wii U much, much better than other third parties. You're then left with Family Party, Game Party Champions, and Scribblenauts. Scribblenauts is Console exclusive to Wii U, which would then enable other titles such as Call of Duty 2, Quake 4, and others for the 360 list. And for the PS3, you might be forgetting a few titles like Ridge Racer 7 and Full Auto 2
RE Ubisoft, one or more of those titles might also miss launch window, such as Rayman. Counting that (depending on real release date) would enable a couple more titles that didnt quite make the first 2 or 3 months of the 360 and Ps3
Then theres other semantics like how much effort, money, and the size of teams that went into those titles, which might tip the scales against the Wii U titles that mostly consist of party games outside ZombiU and Rayman.
What I'm specifically referring to however, was in response to the other poster labelling the Wii U as the beginning of the next generation of consoles as far as development is concerned. In the first couple of months, the 360 and PS3 got a lot more titles that were targetted for their specific generations.
BlockheadBrown
Member
- Where would you put Peter Jackson's King Kong (released for both Xbox and with "enhanced" features for the 360)?
- What amount of time are you considering for a "Launch Window"?
- What about eShop games? Do they make the cut?
The Wii U is the beginning of the next cycle, period. Whether or not Nintendo made the right choices in releasing the Wii U spec'd as it is and as to when it is released, will be determined down the road.
The Wiiu is next-Gen but when I think of next-Gen development I think of Unreal Engine 4, Cry Engine 3 fully utilized, Frostbite 2 fully utilized and so on. Stuff that developers have been testing the waters on high end PC with.
I'm sure WiiU will be fine though and my preorder is already set.
I'm sure WiiU will be fine though and my preorder is already set.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
King Kong I wouldn't count, because there was already a version made available for consoles, and the translation from PC-> Console is a bit different than console -> console. In porting from PC to console you have to take much more in consideration. Its a bigger risk, and in all likelihood costs a good deal more.
Launch window is the first 3 months within the first holiday (since theyre all released in the same November timeframe)
And eShop games I'm not too sure of, since the PS3 and XBL didnt have a decent equivalent at launch. I dont know if I could count the launch of those specific services, however...
Saint Gregory
Member
Does this kind of "well, I don't count that as a game/support" extend to all console manufactuers?
I remember so much of that type of attitude during the Wii's period of dominance where posters would ask what people were buying all those Wiis for when it had no games and when it's pointed out that 5+ or so of the NPD top 10 were on Wii the games were dismissed as "not being real games" :/
I really don't understand why some posters are so opposed to accepting that next gen starts when the Wii U launches.
BlockheadBrown
Member
IGN considers it one. King Kong did have enhanced features (granted, that it shared with the pc, but with no other console version).
Also, let's not forget about the LIVE Arcade Titles:
RE: Launch Window - "The Xbox Live Arcade for Xbox 360 launch portfolio will include the following titles through Holiday 2005" Looks like Microsoft would agree with you.
Hero of Legend
Member
So are we using this as a replacement for the main thread? We need some place for the general discussion and for small findings that may or not be thread-worthy.
Yes. Ask about MS exclusive games. They don't have any. Because apparently you can't count Forza, Halo, Fable, any spin-offs, Kinect games or XBLA. Can't count a lot of Vita games because they're "typically console experiences". Get around GAF and you'll see equal hatred for everything. Go to the OT and find out how much your hometown, favorite sport, favorite team, movie, music artist or comic book sucks. The idea that Nintendo is alone in some conspiracy hatred bubble is delusional hilarity.
It's not GAFs fault. This comes along with being on the internet.
Shhhht! it's a secret
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Yeah, no. Again, just look at the lineups. It was pretty much all ports for both PS3 and 360, from past gen consoles, from PC, from arcades. Same thing now with Wii U, to basically the same degree at that.
Even arbitrairly disqualifying Ubisoft to suit your argument still leaves you with 3 ground up Wii U games, almost as much as 360 and 3 times more than PS3. And I used your "originated on" definition to indicate titles, even when those games got PC ports (as Condemned and Scribblenaits have) so long as the console was their lead base. That's different from a PC game ported over after the fact (like Quake 4, COD2, etc) and if you want to move the goalpost to "console exclusive" that opens the door for handheld and arcade ports (MH3G, Sega Golf Club, Tank Tank Tank, etc).
BTW, RR7 was really RR6 and Full Auto 2 was really Full Auto 1. Same game, some extra stuff, new number. It'd be like calling Wii U's launch games "Batman Arkham City 2" and " Ninja Gaiden 4".