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[ArynCrinn]

Whose arguing in what post otherwise. There is big difference between maximum power available and what devs ultimately do with it in real time.

Main in-game difference, as well as programming efficiency and ease of getting effects on screen was Xbox's programmable shaders. Where in a lot of ways it was superior in that GPU aspect to the Wii. TEV just isn't anywhere near as flexible or easy to use.

Can't believe people are arguing about SMS vs SMG though...

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Four years later, Smash Designs presented this at The Party 1997. On a plain old C64 - an 8bit, sub-1MHz machine introduced in 1982.

Woah. I remember watching second reality repeatedly. I had no idea that this existed.

also, debris.mod

 

[LCGeek]

Crikey, wifi connections have never been recommended for serious gaming. Too much instability, too many wireless routers that are nearly impossible to configure properly. Resulting in people playing with moderate NAT, suffering packet loss, etc.

This rarely gets mentioned when talking about the advantages of wired vs wireless. On windows it's bad enough, though you can tweak it. On consoles wireless has never been a pleasant experience for me when it goes wrong and has often required me to replace the router involved or reconfigure how it transmit to make it work right.

Console makers should not be forcing gamers who don't have to suffer through wireless a decent nic isn't that much, but nintendo taught me with output and video they are willing to gimp a console if it means a few more bucks. At the very least if they aren't going to build it in to the hardware allow for something with usb they are far more consistent than wireless.

 

[ikioi]

Crikey, wifi connections have never been recommended for serious gaming.

Serious online gaming happens on consoles?

News to me.

Last i checked most online console games were peer to peer. The least of your worries is the odd percent or two of packet loss from your WiFi connection.

Contending with the 100+ ms latency due to the host being on the other side of the country or world

The game being hosted on a console rather then a dedicated server

Controller input responses from the Xbox and PS3 are laggy

The host's internet connection having his/her uplink saturated feeding data to the other clients resulting in packet loss or wildly fluxuting pings.

Console power restrictions resulting in vastly smaller map sizes and player counts then PC counter parts

Packet size and packet rate also tend to be significantly lower on consoles then PC. In part to help combat hosts with shitty link speeds, limited procesing power of the Xbox 360 and PS3, high latency, etc.

PS3 and 360 Slim have wifi built in since that's now "expected" but as far as the online gaming world goes, I sometimes think it's more of a bug than a feature lol.

WiFi is where the world is going.

Game consoles, tablets, smart phones, even laptops now ship sans ethernet ports.

Also if you use a half decent wifi router, you shouldn't be getting any packet loss. I myself am running a 802.11n connection at home, even hammering the router with 1500 byte packets and flooding the MTU i cannot obtain any packet loss. At most my ping will for a second jump from 10ns to 35ns, but thats about it. If your getting such serious packet loss or fluxating pings that its really effecting your online console experience, by god you must have a shit setup.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yeah, sorry but Galaxy is head and shoulders above anything on GC. I remember back in the day the rumor was the Revolution would have similar graphics to the Xbox 360 but simply only display SD resolution (lolz), well Galaxy is as close to that claim as is possible IMO.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Serious online gaming happens on consoles?

News to me.

No need to act like the wifi defense force and remind us all we're in the future, where wfi isn't going away.

Never said anything about serious online gaming being specific to consoles. Strange thing to read in.

You can argue about the fine points of technology from the position of a hypothetical flawless wireless connection and home network. But on the whole, it's hardly an uncommon view that one should just plug the damn cable in with regards to a game console or PC which is sitting there, and not moving. It avoids a host of extra variables and potential instability.

And wifi being considered a bane of online gaming in regards to the PS3 and 360 is largely predicated on these being devices oriented at casual customers who are just as likely to be unable or uninterested in configuring things as well as possible. Resulting in a higher percentage of players online who are connecting to games under bad conditions, and dragging the experience down for others.

 

[RedSwirl]

Crikey, wifi connections have never been recommended for serious gaming. Too much instability, too many wireless routers that are nearly impossible to configure properly. Resulting in people playing with moderate NAT, suffering packet loss, etc.

PS3 and 360 Slim have wifi built in since that's now "expected" but as far as the online gaming world goes, I sometimes think it's more of a bug than a feature lol.

Never been able to play online on a wired connection actually.

 

[LCGeek]

Serious online gaming happens on consoles?

News to me.

Last i checked most online console games were peer to peer. The least of your worries is the odd percent or two of packet loss from your WiFi connection.

Contending with the 100+ ms latency due to the host being on the other side of the country or world

The game being hosted on a console rather then a dedicated server

Controller input responses from the Xbox and PS3 are laggy

The host's internet connection having his/her uplink saturated feeding data to the other clients resulting in packet loss or wildly fluxuting pings.

Console power restrictions resulting in vastly smaller map sizes and player counts then PC counter parts

Packet size and packet rate also tend to be significantly lower on consoles then PC. In part to help combat hosts with shitty link speeds, limited procesing power of the Xbox 360 and PS3, high latency, etc.



WiFi is where the world is going.

Game consoles, tablets, smart phones, even laptops now ship sans ethernet ports.

Also if you use a half decent wifi router, you shouldn't be getting any packet loss. I myself am running a 802.11n connection at home, even hammering the router with 1500 byte packets and flooding the MTU i cannot obtain any packet loss. At most my ping will for a second jump from 10ns to 35ns, but thats about it. If your getting such serious packet loss or fluxating pings that its really effecting your online console experience, by god you must have a shit setup.

The problem isn't always the router. I hate these arguments because it typically assumes the isp involved is doign their job the problem becoems when they aren't. Sometimes it's not even your isp it is something on the hops or routing ont he way to the server you're actually connecting too.

The same can be said for MTU and it's not hard to test for fragmentation on your line. I'm on dsl and despite the fact I should be using 1492 for maximum performance I'm much closer to 1400 after overhead because it cannot handle max for dsl on the ATT router.

Lastly the format of your connection means a lot. You have all sorts of options and even with dsl there is differnce between pppoe, pppoa, vcmux, and llc. Same can be said for fast path vs interleaved which can add another 30ms on top of crap plus error correction.

 

[ikioi]

Never said anything about serious online gaming being specific to consoles. Strange thing to read in.

Strange thing to think that in a thread discussing consoles we wouldn't...

You can argue about the fine points of technology from the position of a hypothetical

In the real world, wireless is less of an issue for console gaming then the infrastructure and technology the games deploy.

But on the whole, it's hardly an uncommon view that one should just plug the damn cable in with regards to a game console or PC which is sitting there, and not moving. It avoids a host of extra variables and potential instability.

You can just as easily have NAT issues with Ethernet as you can wireless. Ethernet is also not immune to packet loss or fluxuations especailly if you're running a significantly long ethernet cable down the hall way to the modem in another part of the house. Then there's still the packet loss and saturation issues your internet connection and its modem may experience, ethernet or wireless isn't going to fix that.

who are just as likely to be unable or uninterested in configuring things as well as possible.

Just as they also can't be bothered running ethernet cables through their ceiling, down the hall, or having network points installed throughout the house. WiFi makes it so easy.

Resulting in a higher percentage of players online who are connecting to games under bad conditions, and dragging the experience down for others.

You're completely blowing WiFi's limitations and issues out of proportion. In light of all the limitations i mentioned with the PS3 and Xbox 360's hardware and networking abilities, online games heavy use of p2p using consoles and end users as hosts, WiFi dropping the odd packet or spiking in latency is such a pathetically small issue it'd hardly be anywhere near the top of my list of issues to address in online console gaming to improve performance.

Dedicated servers in ideal geographical locations
Dedicated bandwidth
Increase in packet count and packet size to and from client and host
Improved network stacks both for hte consoles and the games

These things would do far more to improve online gaming then you plugging an ethernet cable in. It even sounds to me like you're blaming wireless for unrelated issues.

The same can be said for MTU and it's not hard to test for fragmentation on your line. I'm on dsl and despite the fact I should be using 1492 for maximum performance I'm much closer to 1400 after overhead because it cannot handle max for dsl on the ATT router.

Lastly the format of your connection means a lot. You have all sorts of options and even with dsl there is differnce between pppoe, pppoa, vcmux, and llc. Same can be said for fast path vs interleaved which can add another 30ms on top of crap plus error correction.

You're preaching to the choir.

I use to work for two large ISPs here in Australia, Internode and Telstra. I hold a CCNA and use to support DSL, Fibre, ISDN, Dialup, and modem/routers for a living.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Holy sh!t to the notion of as a consumer supporting the abscense of options. Really? No eSATA, no optical or Ethernet is interpreted as a wise decision.

I don't even know why... save for if you have stocks on the company or something.

Is just astonishing really. Is like the prisioner being glad that he's been kept away from his freedom.

 

[netBuff]

You can just as easily have NAT issues with Ethernet as you can wireless. Ethernet is also not immune to packet loss or fluxuations especailly if you're running a significantly long ethernet cable down the hall way to the modem in another part of the house. Then there's still the packet loss and saturation issues your internet connection and its modem may experience, ethernet or wireless isn't going to fix that.

Packet loss and Jitter are not a realistic problem on wired Ethernet connections, if you have a loose connection/bad cable, that's an easily fixable problem.

WiFi is much more prone to interference. The air is a shared medium, a wireless network experiences degraded performance easily: Having many active devices on the network, neighbouring routers (a huge problem in cities) interfering and Bluetooth or microwaves interjecting themselves are realistic propositions that make Wireless potentially undesirable.

But luckily, Nintendo created the Wii LAN adapter by which we will experience the trusted reliability of Ethernet wiring.

I'm much more miffed about the lack of a toslink port, as that means my headset system won't be able to process Dolby Headphone virtual surround with the Wii U, only stereo - and the chances of Nintendo releasing an external sound card featuring an optical audio out are pretty much non-existent.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Packet loss and Jitter are not a realistic problem on wired Ethernet connections, if you have a loose connection/bad cable, that's an easily fixable problem.

I used to troubleshoot internet connectivity for a living. Ethernet problems are horrific problems. Especially when they involve crawl spaces and fishing wires through walls.

 

[netBuff]

I used to troubleshoot internet connectivity for a living. Ethernet problems are horrific problems. Especially when they involve crawl spaces and fishing wires through walls.

I'm sure there are plenty of terrible installations, but that doesn't seem much of a problem for people that actually care about their home network . And by comparison to WiFi, there are actual solutions to bad cables, as I can't stop all my neighbours from broadcasting their signals into my home, as well as I can't stop any other interference. 5 GHz WiFi is practically useless due to device incompatibilities and paltry range, 2,4 GHz is overcrowded in any urban area. WiFi performance degrades very severely with more active devices.

And, at least for me, speed is a big reason: My computers can't max out my 100/10 internet connection via wireless (Asus RT-N66U & Intel 5300agn)

 

[Smurfman256]

I just had a crazy idea: what if Durango and PS4 have fiber-optic ports for ultra high-speed internet (or just to inflate the price)?

 

[Teletraan1]

Holy sh!t to the notion of as a consumer supporting the abscense of options. Really? No eSATA, no optical or Ethernet is interpreted as a wise decision.

I don't even know why... save for if you have stocks on the company or something.

Is just astonishing really. Is like the prisioner being glad that he's been kept away from his freedom.

Some of the people championing Nintendo for their lack of options in this thread are stockholders.

 

[Sheroking]

Holy sh!t to the notion of as a consumer supporting the abscense of options. Really? No eSATA, no optical or Ethernet is interpreted as a wise decision.

I don't even know why... save for if you have stocks on the company or something.

Is just astonishing really. Is like the prisioner being glad that he's been kept away from his freedom.

My feeling is that all of those things are fairly outdated or unnecessary, and that while I can see options as a generally good thing, I'd rather Nintendo refocus resources on more important things while keeping the cost of the system down.

 

[Lord Error]

I just had a crazy idea: what if Durango and PS4 have fiber-optic ports for ultra high-speed internet (or just to inflate the price)?

As long as they have optical audio out, or some kind of breakout cable for it. That's the thing I'm annoyed the most that WiiU doesn't have. I am not buying a new set of speakers and a new receiver because someone decided to cheap out on a 10 cents worth part.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I just had a crazy idea: what if Durango and PS4 have fiber-optic ports for ultra high-speed internet (or just to inflate the price)?

You don't need a fiber optic connection from your modem to your console/device for fast Internet. A standard ethernet cable of the cat-6 variety would get you gigabit speeds.

Besides, unless more people do what Google's doing in Kansas City, gigabit Internet won't be in a decent number of homes for many years.

 

[StevieP]

Serious online gaming happens on consoles?

News to me.

Last i checked most online console games were peer to peer. The least of your worries is the odd percent or two of packet loss from your WiFi connection.

Contending with the 100+ ms latency due to the host being on the other side of the country or world

The game being hosted on a console rather then a dedicated server

Controller input responses from the Xbox and PS3 are laggy

The host's internet connection having his/her uplink saturated feeding data to the other clients resulting in packet loss or wildly fluxuting pings.

Console power restrictions resulting in vastly smaller map sizes and player counts then PC counter parts

Packet size and packet rate also tend to be significantly lower on consoles then PC. In part to help combat hosts with shitty link speeds, limited procesing power of the Xbox 360 and PS3, high latency, etc.



WiFi is where the world is going.

Game consoles, tablets, smart phones, even laptops now ship sans ethernet ports.

Also if you use a half decent wifi router, you shouldn't be getting any packet loss. I myself am running a 802.11n connection at home, even hammering the router with 1500 byte packets and flooding the MTU i cannot obtain any packet loss. At most my ping will for a second jump from 10ns to 35ns, but thats about it. If your getting such serious packet loss or fluxating pings that its really effecting your online console experience, by god you must have a shit setup.

You're like me. Still wondering how people pay for an extremely limited peer to peer online system.

As long as they have optical audio out, or some kind of breakout cable for it. That's the thing I'm annoyed the most that WiiU doesn't have. I am not buying a new set of speakers and a new receiver because someone decided to cheap out on a 10 cents worth part.

Unless you like optical audio that's only capable of stereo pcm, it's not a matter of pennies. It's dollars to buy the right to use the codecs.

 

[specialguy]

You're like me. Still wondering how people pay for an extremely limited peer to peer online system.

And another prominent foundational member of the Wii U defense force goes PC. It's not looking good

j/k j/k

 

[Canis lupus]

I just had a crazy idea: what if Durango and PS4 have fiber-optic ports for ultra high-speed internet (or just to inflate the price)?

Does that exist for consumers?

 

[StevieP]

And another prominent foundational member of the Wii U defense force goes PC. It's not looking good

j/k j/k

If I was to be considered any defence force, it would definitely be PC - and it's always been that way. 95+ percent plus of my gaming is done there. The other 5 percent being consoles and handhelds, of which I own various brands of (though I'll contend it's mostly Nintendo and Sony gear, with some Sega sprinkled in for good measure - I never found the need for an OG Xbox and most of the games I wish to play on the 360 are available on my PC). For consoles, exclusive software makes me purchase the hardware. Multiplats are almost always purchased for PC (they are cheaper, and usually control better, play better as well as look nicer).

Pretty much 0% telephone/tablet gaming, because I loathe playing on touch-only devices for anything outside the stuff that works (such as your angry birds and various clones).

When people do discuss online gaming on consoles, I genuinely wonder how it's taken so seriously when it's all so uniformly gimped in comparison to a generally much better system that also happens to be free *and* simultaneously more comprehensive, and always offering a better actual gaming experience too.

I do appreciate the uniquness of some of the services on consoles (especially when they are actually unique) but the idea of a paywall to access basic features that are, hilariously, run in peer to peer most of the time strikes me as greed.

 

[LCGeek]

Packet loss and Jitter are not a realistic problem on wired Ethernet connections, if you have a loose connection/bad cable, that's an easily fixable problem.

WiFi is much more prone to interference. The air is a shared medium, a wireless network experiences degraded performance easily: Having many active devices on the network, neighbouring routers (a huge problem in cities) interfering and Bluetooth or microwaves interjecting themselves are realistic propositions that make Wireless potentially undesirable.

But luckily, Nintendo created the Wii LAN adapter by which we will experience the trusted reliability of Ethernet wiring.

You can easily run netsat commands and see that your ethernet drops a decent bit, granted your buffers aren't borking you. Even if you're arguing about a few percents that is meaningless to a gamer when it happens at the worst time possible in any game they are playing vs people and get screwed. Be it jitter or the occasionaly lag devs need to really go another step to lessen this issue. Wired Ethernet problem isn't the hardware it's ultimately the software that gets paired with which is consistently built with philosophy that rarely lends well to gaming. Until gamers stand up to both pc and console devs about the direction of online gaming we are at the mercy of shoddy programming. Hardware is rarely the problem in my experiences.

Speed is not a problem unless we are talking about upload in a game, then it really matters especially if you are under .5Mbps. My current dsl is bare bones and I do quite fine in a variety of pc games gaffers know me to play.

For xbox users I would invest in a router with excellent traffic shaping and the ability to adjust your MTU. Fix these two and you will have a gigantic leg up on most other players due to the stability of your connection.

Glad to see someone else gets what I'm talking Ikioi.

 

[Terrell]

Holy sh!t to the notion of as a consumer supporting the abscense of options. Really? No eSATA, no optical or Ethernet is interpreted as a wise decision.

I don't even know why... save for if you have stocks on the company or something.

Is just astonishing really. Is like the prisioner being glad that he's been kept away from his freedom.

eSATA? That's actually used by people who aren't in video production? Tell ya what, when there's even a PC intended for consumer consumption has eSATA built right into it, then we have a reason to be pissed.

Also, I wouldn't bet on an optical audio or Ethernet port on your next PlayStation or Xbox.

There are ALWAYS options left out of EVERY product sold in the marketplace, there's really no point in going all "consumer crusader" over it just because one of those exclusions was something you gave a shit about. If it's that important to you, perhaps you should just wait and shop around for something else. That's the reason people rail against suggestions that something's "lacking" because it's missing a niche function: cuz it smacks of misplaced consumer entitlement, whether intended or not.

And at least the items you listed are exclusions of things used by less than 5-10% of the potential buyers and isn't another no-HDMI-no-WiFi situation like the 360.

 

[StevieP]

eSATA? That's actually used by people who aren't in video production? Tell ya what, when there's even a PC intended for consumer consumption has eSATA built right into it, then we have a reason to be pissed.

Also, I wouldn't bet on an optical audio or Ethernet port on your next PlayStation or Xbox.

There are ALWAYS options left out of EVERY product sold in the marketplace, there's really no point in going all "consumer crusader" over it just because one of those exclusions was something you gave a shit about. If it's that important to you, perhaps you should just wait and shop around for something else.

And at least the items you listed are exclusions of things used by less than 5-10% of the potential buyers and isn't another no-HDMI-no-WiFi situation like the 360.

You may be thinking of a different port. eSATA is common and is on all of my newest PCs in the past 5-7 years and most of my newer laptops, save for the most recent one where USB 3.0 ports have replaced it. With that said, the console would require a SATA controller which would increase the cost and motherboard complexity. It doesn't have one. An additional USB 3 controller would've been appreciated, but again we're talking dollars per console and additional I/O on the motherboard.

I agree with you that there may not be optical on one or more of the other next gen consoles, but I'll expect USB 3.0 on both.

 

[LCGeek]

There are ALWAYS options left out of EVERY product sold in the marketplace, there's really no point in going all "consumer crusader" over it just because one of those exclusions was something you gave a shit about. If it's that important to you, perhaps you should just wait and shop around for something else.

Consoles do not present the option to shop around for something else, especially if you like certain genres. All 3 are horrid on hardware in variety of ways they only reason they don't get taken to task is because the consumer base is so big they only have to respond to major issues. I'm not a baby but it doesn't mean I like being spoon fed shoddy or poorly thought-out hardware. There is nothing else to shop around for I love all exclusives on all platforms I would love some of these companies to grow up and become more pc centric in terms of options and settings that let people tweak to their hardware.

 

[Christberg]

Holy sh!t to the notion of as a consumer supporting the abscense of options. Really? No eSATA, no optical or Ethernet is interpreted as a wise decision.

I don't even know why... save for if you have stocks on the company or something.

Is just astonishing really. Is like the prisioner being glad that he's been kept away from his freedom.

This is a fine view to have, provided you understand that MS and Sony are just as guilty of not including stuff that should be standard features.

Take the X360 Core edition for example. Shipped with a composite cable, a wired controller, and required a purchase of a $40 memory card just to make it usable. Oh, and wireless? You had to buy an adapter that was ludicrously expensive. People called it the "tard pack" with rightful disdain and we shouldn't forget about that when we discuss Wii U's expansion ports.

The Wii U should have a GigE NIC standard and a bay to accept 2.5" SATA drives. Probably would have added maybe $10 onto the production cost to do it.

But if the tradeoff is that it comes with a high speed HDMI cable and a wireless controller you can charge without plugging it into the console then it's worth it IMO. Which it does.

 

[Terrell]

Consoles do not present the option to shop around for something else, especially if you like certain genres. All 3 are horrid on hardware in variety of ways they only reason they don't get taken to task is because the consumer base is so big they only have to respond to major issues. I'm not a baby but it doesn't mean I like being spoon fed shoddy or poorly thought-out hardware. There is nothing else to shop around for I love all exclusives on all platforms I would love some of these companies to grow up and become more pc centric in terms of options and settings that let people tweak to their hardware.

Vote with your dollars and see what happens. Console games started at square one back in the day, too, but the breadth of titles and genres increased the more people voted with their dollars for a console experience over a PC game at that moment in time. You have a choice and CAN shop around for a platform that is acceptable and can build an audience for, you're just refusing to make that decision and accepting a norm.

Also, "missing" a feature that's only "missing" because you know it exists and actively use it now equals a shoddy or poorly thought out product...? REALLY?!

 

[LCGeek]

Vote with your dollars and see what happens. Console games started at square one back in the day, too, but the breadth of titles and genres increased the more people voted with their dollars for a console experience over a PC game at that moment in time. You have a choice and CAN shop around for a platform that is acceptable and can build an audience for, you're just refusing to make that decision and accepting a norm.

Also, "missing" a feature that's only "missing" because you know it exists and actively use it now equals a shoddy or poorly thought out product...? REALLY?!

I have and I'm turning this 30 this next fed up with it. life is too short all I do now is let gamers know their options or how to fix shit when it's possible. Fuck the big companies and I do as I buy things much later in the generation than being some beta test baby.

One person isn't going to fix a norm if you're suggesting that to me maybe the mods need to transfer my tag to you.

 

[Terrell]

I have and I'm turning this 30 this next fed up with it. life is too short all I do now is let gamers know their options or how to fix shit when it's possible. Fuck the big companies and I do as I buy things much later in the generation than being some beta test baby.

One person isn't going to fix a norm if you're suggesting that to me maybe the mods need to transfer my tag to you.

One person never does. But in a world full of people who don't change their habits until there's already a bandwagon to jump on, nothing would get done without some people taking the first step, so why wait for someone else to do it and delay an inevitable outcome of a change in the marketplace any further?

 

[LCGeek]

One person never does. But in a world full of people who don't change their habits until there's already a bandwagon to jump on, nothing would get done without some people taking the first step, so why wait for someone else to do it and delay an inevitable outcome of a change in the marketplace any further?

I take my steps with those around me. Yet I learned at a gamestop my friend manages some people just don't care.

Also some of the issues I care about like networking, agnostic input peripherals, color management, and modding are things that console industry doesn't care much for and often is met with resistance. Though for pc users and very extreme consoles users they are there but it's a niche market.

Out for the morning I will check on the thread later.

 

[specialguy]

this thread has been short of actual final specs for so long now the title seems like a mocking relic

 

[StevieP]

this thread has been short of actual final specs for so long now the title seems like a mocking relic

There will never be real *full* final specs out on this console for a long time, as it's NDAd to hell and will be even after its retail release. The trouble in this thread started when gamecube and wii comparisons ran rampant.

Prior to that, there were the usually gigaflop circle discussions. Is it 400? Is it 600? etc etc

There isn't going to be anything massive/new until after the console is released and torn down.

 

[Terrell]

I take my steps with those around me. Yet I learned at a gamestop my friend manages some people just don't care.

Also some of the issues I care about like networking, agnostic input peripherals, color management, and modding are things that console industry doesn't care much for and often is met with resistance. Though for pc users and very extreme consoles users they are there but it's a niche market.

Out for the morning I will check on the thread later.

And you just answered why the market is where it is... you can't expect a "niche market" to be catered to, because that's part of defining oneself as part of being part of a niche market in a mass-market economy. And if it's such a big deal to rail against that principle for one type of mass-market product to the exclusion of all others, perhaps it's not as "niche" as you define it?

In a mass-market economy, some consumers are always left wanting, it's the way business works. And that's why people get riled up by this sort of talk on GAF: it's people who understand and accept this principle against people who don't.

 

[wsippel]

You may be thinking of a different port. eSATA is common and is on all of my newest PCs in the past 5-7 years and most of my newer laptops, save for the most recent one where USB 3.0 ports have replaced it. With that said, the console would require a SATA controller which would increase the cost and motherboard complexity. It doesn't have one. An additional USB 3 controller would've been appreciated, but again we're talking dollars per console and additional I/O on the motherboard.

I agree with you that there may not be optical on one or more of the other next gen consoles, but I'll expect USB 3.0 on both.

The system does have a SATA controller. It's how they connect the optical drive. Still, I don't really see the point. The games are designed for a read speed of 25MB/s, USB2 is already faster than that. I don't think going from USB2 to USB3 or eSATA would make much of a difference for this specific application.

 

[specialguy]

There will never be real *full* final specs out on this console for a long time, as it's NDAd to hell and will be even after its retail release. The trouble in this thread started when gamecube and wii comparisons ran rampant.

Prior to that, there were the usually gigaflop circle discussions. Is it 400? Is it 600? etc etc

There isn't going to be anything massive/new until after the console is released and torn down.

All consoles past were NDA'd to hell too. Somehow we got those details.

I'm not really sure what's up with the Wii U, and why the secrecy has been so annoyingly effective. I just hope it isn't a portent of the future for other consoles *shrug*

I think we could get a full spec leak any day now, the key will probably be sussing it out as truthful. I cant see the veil of secrecy on the clocks and functional units of the GPU (I think the CPU can already safely be called some type of enhanced broadway given it's tiny size+rumors) lasting more than 3 months after release. So that gives us a 4 month window that we should get what we want somewhere in there.

I was just thinking the other day though, how Sony and MS trumpeted certain specs of the PS3 and 360. Sony literally bragging about it's 300 million transistor GPU.

Sadly I think the days of everybody hiding all their specs ala Apple are upon us. While you could say only the weak like Nintendo have desire to hide specs, I think on balance it's probably beneficial to all parties to hide all notable specs, even the uber powerful. No sense telling the competition what's under your hood, no sense being compared to a top of the line pc and declared deficient "(what? 4GB RAM? My shitty PC has 8GB! -average casual" )

 

[antonz]

All consoles past were NDA'd to hell too. Somehow we got those details.

I'm not really sure what's up with the Wii U, and why the secrecy has been so annoyingly effective. I just hope it isn't a portent of the future *shrug*

I think we could get a full spec leak any day now, the key will probably be sussing it out as truthful.

I think once the media outlets get their hands on the systems in office the final leaks will start. At that point the people who know things can start to speak a bit easier as the systems will be in the wild.

 

[netBuff]

You can easily run netsat commands and see that your ethernet drops a decent bit, granted your buffers aren't borking you. Even if you're arguing about a few percents that is meaningless to a gamer when it happens at the worst time possible in any game they are playing vs people and get screwed.

I don't agree - while a few dropped packets here and there on the local network can happen with Ethernet, too (you mentioned a buffer being thrown away), the same will take place on a wireless network, but at a significantly increased likelihood due to the nature of the air being a shared medium and the inherent outside influences therein.

Comparing my wired and wireless networks living in the city, Jitter is significantly worse on wireless (spikes every few seconds). It's likely less of a problem in more rural areas, where there aren't 30 other networks transmitting in the same band.

An uniform connection is what matters to gamers, and that's why Ethernet will always be preferable to a wireless connection. Of course you can play just fine over WiFi, it's just not the best possible connectivity situation. Most noticeable problems will be outside the users influence anyway (on the internet side of things), but that doesn't devalue a stable local area network.

 

[Phazon]

I think once the media outlets get their hands on the systems in office the final leaks will start. At that point the people who know things can start to speak a bit easier as the systems will be in the wild.

I don't think they are allowed to do that if they get the Wii U before release.

In fact, I'm pretty sure of it

 

[mrklaw]

I just had a crazy idea: what if Durango and PS4 have fiber-optic ports for ultra high-speed internet (or just to inflate the price)?

PS3 already has gigabit (not sure about 360), which is more than enough for any home network, never mind internet access

 

[KojiKnight]

I don't think they are allowed to do that if they get the Wii U before release.

In fact, I'm pretty sure of it

Their will definitely still be NDAs to deal with, but those will lift before system launch at least.


On the subject of ISPs having a big factor in lag... it's of course very true. Playing online games I was hitting on average 50-150ms in games like TF2 which isn't bad at all I thought, but then I also did ping tests for local web servers (literally, ones down the street) and I was still hitting over 50-150ms.

The hell, I thought.... something doesn't seem right about a server just down the street. So I started doing some traceroutes and checking the locations of all the hops and found out ALL of my traffic was being routed through New York... I live in Florida. That's an additional 1000 miles one way that my data had to go (and indeed, the trace route was telling me it was the largest delay at 30-50ms).

Had to call my ISP, fight through the first layer of inept customer service reps, and get told by someone who at least KNEW what a traceroute was that they weren't sure WHY everything was going through one of their New York offices but that they'd get back to me... well, he never did get back to me BUT they did fix the issue.

Now those same TF2 servers get me 15-50ms lag instead. Simply beautiful...

As for wireless overlap, it's becoming more and more of an issue in general. While I don't live in a "rural" location exactly, it's definitely far out from the city (just down the street is a few horse ranches, and my closest neighbors are a good distance away) but even right now I count 9 signals being picked up by my laptop. I blame that on the fact that routers are more and more touting super long range, when it's not necessary for most people.

Hell, my router is set to half power and I can still get a signal from my house all the way to the street. Totally unnecessary.

 

[Windom Earle]

Forza = low frame rate and hardly a graphically complex game. Limited cars on track, poor background scenery, poly count, textures, platform exclusive, list goes on.

Haha, Forza 3 and 4 are some of the most stable 60fps games available. Also aren't the Forza games knows for their great track details?

GT5 is a piece of crap. Out of the two i'll take Forza thanks.

Please call me when the Wii U reaches something comparable to GT5's crappy lighting and graphics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQO6JHZl-Cs

And yes, the game has high highs and low lows, but it is still a remarkable achievement.

Your posts are probably not worth replying to, but I found those two comments especially amusing.

 

[MDX]

Doesn't matter how powerful Durango or PS4 will end up being.
WiiU will be the base standard for most 3rd party games as it will have
a lead in console sales.

Publishers are simply not going to spend that much more money to improve
a game on a console if they dont have to. And why should they? I bet many
WiiU owners will buy even 1:1 360 or PS3 ports, for example, of CoD,
Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc. because they are popular games.

The next console that will probably be released is the Xbox3.
Will it even launch the same year it will be revealed?
WiiU has had the benefit of being in the public eye a year and half before
hitting store shelves. So will MS miss Xmas 2013 for more exposure time?

What games will it have at launch? Nintendo is getting by without showing their big titles. How important is it for the next Xbox to have titles, showing off the power of the console, at launch? Not to forget, 3rd Party developers will also have more time invested working with the WiiU hardware. How important is it for MS to launch the most powerful game console vs the best selling?

For many, 360 or PS3 was a complimentary second console to the Wii. HD vs SD being the selling point. This time, the distinction between the consoles will be more blurred. All three consoles will be HD (though Sony might promote theirs as being Super HD).
And we have heard that 720p will be a target resolution for many developers regardless how powerful the console is. We can also expect that Nintendo's big budget games will give any first party game from Sony or MS a run for their money.
So, what does MS have to do, or offer, to get WiiU owners to also buy a new Xbox?

How will the Xbox3 do in Japan? If it does as well as the 360 or Xbox, then Japan as a market will not help diminish the sales lead the WiiU will have. And it won't be an attractive console for Japanese developers.

Achievements. How important are they? Unlike the Wii, many 360 owners have invested greatly in racking up achievement points. Will the new Xbox allow migration of achievements from the 360? If not, will many 360 owners wait before upgrading their console?

Most importantly, will MS sell a dedicated gaming console, or a multi-media set top box?

 

[Tears For Fears]

Doesn't matter how powerful Durango or PS4 will end up being.
WiiU will be the base standard for most 3rd party games as it will have
a lead in console sales.

Publishers are simply not going to spend that much more money to improve
a game on a console if they dont have to. And why should they? I bet many
WiiU owners will buy even 1:1 360 or PS3 ports, for example, of CoD,
Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc. because they are popular games.

The next console that will probably be released is the Xbox3.
Will it even launch the same year it will be revealed?
WiiU has had the benefit of being in the public eye a year and half before
hitting store shelves. So will MS miss Xmas 2013 for more exposure time?

What games will it have at launch? Nintendo is getting by without showing their big titles. How important is it for the next Xbox to have titles, showing off the power of the console, at launch? Not to forget, 3rd Party developers will also have more time invested working with the WiiU hardware. How important is it for MS to launch the most powerful game console vs the best selling?

For many, 360 or PS3 was a complimentary second console to the Wii. HD vs SD being the selling point. This time, the distinction between the consoles will be more blurred. All three consoles will be HD (though Sony might promote theirs as being Super HD).
And we have heard that 720p will be a target resolution for many developers regardless how powerful the console is. We can also expect that Nintendo's big budget games will give any first party game from Sony or MS a run for their money.
So, what does MS have to do, or offer, to get WiiU owners to also buy a new Xbox?

How will the Xbox3 do in Japan? If it does as well as the 360 or Xbox, then Japan as a market will not help diminish the sales lead the WiiU will have. And it won't be an attractive console for Japanese developers.

Achievements. How important are they? Unlike the Wii, many 360 owners have invested greatly in racking up achievement points. Will the new Xbox allow migration of achievements from the 360? If not, will many 360 owners wait before upgrading their console?

Most importantly, will MS sell a dedicated gaming console, or a multi-media set top box?

What? You have games being made right now for both those consoles, with no Wii U version in sight. Your whole post is insane.

 

[gblues]

Just got the new Game Informer, which indicates that the system has 1GB system memory and 1GB of video memory. True, or GI talking out its ass?

 

[Jmanunknown]

What? You have games being made right now for both those consoles, with no Wii U version in sight. Your whole post is insane.

I thought his whole post was a joke but, that apparently is not the case.


Thw WiiU will do find nintendo has good relationships with japanese third party developers so that should help them on the third party games front.

 

[StevieP]

The system does have a SATA controller. It's how they connect the optical drive. Still, I don't really see the point. The games are designed for a read speed of 25MB/s, USB2 is already faster than that. I don't think going from USB2 to USB3 or eSATA would make much of a difference for this specific application.

Ah crap, I'd completely forgotten about the bdrom! My bad.

Just got the new Game Informer, which indicates that the system has 1GB system memory and 1GB of video memory. True, or GI talking out its ass?

Well... if you want to try and justify the language, I guess that's their loose interpretation of the Iwata Asks, considering "system memory" as the OS footprint and "video memory" as game memory could make some kind of sense.

As far as Wii U being the baseline? Maybe for some titles, but from what I can gather, most publishers are already treating it like the Wii in regards to 8th gen development (despite the architecture being able to run the games, unlike Wii).

 

[Glorified G]

Doesn't matter how powerful Durango or PS4 will end up being.
WiiU will be the base standard for most 3rd party games as it will have
a lead in console sales.

Publishers care about demographics. Console sales are irrelevant if publishers don't see an audience to sell their games.

 

[Eideka]

We can also expect that Nintendo's big budget games will give any first party game from Sony or MS a run for their money.

Not on Durango/Orbis....

 

[Van Owen]

Doesn't matter how powerful Durango or PS4 will end up being.
WiiU will be the base standard for most 3rd party games as it will have
a lead in console sales.

Publishers are simply not going to spend that much more money to improve
a game on a console if they dont have to. And why should they? I bet many
WiiU owners will buy even 1:1 360 or PS3 ports, for example, of CoD,
Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc. because they are popular games.

The next console that will probably be released is the Xbox3.
Will it even launch the same year it will be revealed?
WiiU has had the benefit of being in the public eye a year and half before
hitting store shelves. So will MS miss Xmas 2013 for more exposure time?

What games will it have at launch? Nintendo is getting by without showing their big titles. How important is it for the next Xbox to have titles, showing off the power of the console, at launch? Not to forget, 3rd Party developers will also have more time invested working with the WiiU hardware. How important is it for MS to launch the most powerful game console vs the best selling?

For many, 360 or PS3 was a complimentary second console to the Wii. HD vs SD being the selling point. This time, the distinction between the consoles will be more blurred. All three consoles will be HD (though Sony might promote theirs as being Super HD).
And we have heard that 720p will be a target resolution for many developers regardless how powerful the console is. We can also expect that Nintendo's big budget games will give any first party game from Sony or MS a run for their money.
So, what does MS have to do, or offer, to get WiiU owners to also buy a new Xbox?

How will the Xbox3 do in Japan? If it does as well as the 360 or Xbox, then Japan as a market will not help diminish the sales lead the WiiU will have. And it won't be an attractive console for Japanese developers.

Achievements. How important are they? Unlike the Wii, many 360 owners have invested greatly in racking up achievement points. Will the new Xbox allow migration of achievements from the 360? If not, will many 360 owners wait before upgrading their console?

Most importantly, will MS sell a dedicated gaming console, or a multi-media set top box?

This guy learned nothing from Wii.