NoLootBoxDev
Member
That is incorrect, the narrative now is to de-nazify Ukraine........
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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter AfricanKing
- Start date
- News NSFW
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clarky
Gold Member
but what do you think his end game is rather than this nonsense?
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Shut the fuck up.
clarky
Gold Member
Halo is Back
Member
Are you this dense? What the fuck do you think the "end game" is of any dictator who has become power-hungry. He wants to restore Russia as a global superpower and ensure its military and economic dominance.
Gp1
Member
According to Google maps, the reactors are right behind this building taking fire
Fare thee well
Neophyte
'Saudi Arabia offers to mediate talks between Russia and Ukraine'
Imagine the irony of Saudi Arabia brokering peace. Sometimes the world really does hurt my brain. But I guess we all have to be hypocrites if we want to say NO to a war. Lord knows every country could drown with the amount of skeletons in their closet.
I still feel like we are letting Ukraine ultimately stand alone. I get why, but I do not like it. It feels like Rohan turning back around as Gondor takes it up the ass.
Kittehkraken
Member
Looks like the fire is out.
You're all over the place.
First you're equalizing him with the US presidents, european etc. on Iraq/Afeghanistan which has it's own merit, but at the present time serves no purpose other than being that guy that just goes against the general sentiment for shits and giggles.
The you're trying to justify this fucking ridiculous war, where children were already killed because Ukraine tried to join NATO because he fucking keeps taking territory away from them despite previous agreements.
Third, you seem to be well versed on the agreements, go check what Russia agreed to when Ukraine laid down their nuclear weapons.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This doesn't count as an answer? I directly stated what I believe his end game to be.
Hari Seldon
Member
I haven't seen pictures of the Ukrainian plant, but typically in US nuclear plants the actual reactor is in a concrete dome, and at least in US and French designed reactors these domes are extremely thick and could easily withstand small arms fire (but maybe not a large artillery strike). As Rubio said, the spent fuel pool is not protected at all and the plant that I had full access to in the US it was just in a swimming pool in a normal building with a normal roof. If you drained / blew up the pool, there would be tons of radiation everywhere, but I don't think it would be a huge disaster as there would be no dangerous radiation cloud floating about. Maybe if you like totally vaporized the pool with a direct hit it would be a problem.
Reactor Dome:
Spent Fuel Pool:
Source: I worked in the nuclear industry and had full access to civlian and military nuclear plants, but I am not a physisist, nuclear engineer, or even a mechanical engineer. I worked on the electronics and obviously learned some shit but I'm not an expert.
Reactor Dome:
Spent Fuel Pool:
Source: I worked in the nuclear industry and had full access to civlian and military nuclear plants, but I am not a physisist, nuclear engineer, or even a mechanical engineer. I worked on the electronics and obviously learned some shit but I'm not an expert.
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Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Don’t feed the trolls
NoLootBoxDev
Member
As someone not from the USA, my understanding is simple. Putin wanted to get back the glorious Soviet Union, this has been planning this for a long time. He gave excuse:
#1 NATO, but it falls short since even if Ukraine joined it no one would attack Russia to start WW3.
#2) Then now the narrative is that he is trying to de-Nazify Ukraine.
He thought it was going to be an easy win. Sadly for him, it has become a pain there was a manifest from the Russian news about how he was supposed to win in a few days.....got leaked.
Now he is losing it because the whole fucking world is against this stupid war. Sanctions everywhere, banks, companies, and more. His military is falling apart (people abandon their vehicles, people deserting, an army with no fuel and food, losing heads in the military in Ukraine, protests in berlin, destruction of all the oligarchs wealth) He is desperate, trying to win any way possible before everything crumbles, trying to save himself. That is why he does not care how to do it anymore, he wants results, could not care less if a reactor or 2 blow up. He is killing civilians to inflict pain and drop morale in Ukraine.
There is one truth about all this. If Ukraine survives and pushes back hard, believe he will use nuclear bombs there, hell even if the Ukraine military starts pushing to Russia he would blow half his country to stop them if needed.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Some timeline that can help understand the context a bit:
-2012: A large reserve of natural gas is found in the region/sea of Crimea. That along with new tech in exploring underground resources, which would allow exploration of other existing reserves in the country, made ukraine one of the largest reserves of natural gas in the world. Current government was more aligned with Russia.
-2014: The Ukraine protests happened. The coup that saw heavy western support, coincidentally, put a pro-west pro-EU government in charge exactly two years latter after the reserves were found, coincidentally. Also coincidentally, getting those resources from Ukraine would allow west europe to be less dependent on Russia for gas.
2014-2021: Russia didn't recognize the new government and started supporting separatists group, that were basically the previous pro-russia government, in regions that coincidentally are close to the gas reserves, making it impossible to explore the reserves properly. Russia also took Crimea, which prompted the Ukraine government cut its only water source coming from Ukraine, causing a severe water crisis for the 2000000 civilians living there, one that was also weighting heavily on Russia's pockets (liberating the river was one of its goals in this war).
A pro-west Ukraine not only threatens Russia existence as the major supplier of natural gas to Europe, but its also a critical strategic location that allows its territory to be invaded more easily. Meanwhile, US is desperetally doing everything they can to discredit and discharge a heavily anti-interventionist president from its seat.
2022: Ukraine will be joining NATO, which might, coincidentally, help them kill off any ongoing war/rebellion with the separatists groups and retake lost territories like Crimea, letting them finally start exploring their reserves and eventually supplying Europe with it.
Then Russia invades.
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clarky
Gold Member
excellent answer to my original question. thank you.
chris121580
Member
If you want to complain about the US, boy do I have a forum for you to post at that you would just love and fit right in
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
"Russian Troll, go fuck yourself."
Insane Metal
Member
So these fuckers actually put fire to a nuclear power plant? The fuck is this madness?
Thaedolus
Member
Oh, lovely.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
It's probably a combination of madness on behalf of the military leaders and incompetence on the ground level.
And honestly I'd be willing to bet a sizable portion of my bank account that the soldiers on the ground either do not know that they are assaulting a nuclear facility or that they have been given some kind of misinformation saying that the facility is offline so that there's no risk or something like that.
Russia doesn't tell it's citizens shit and it tells its soldiers even less. Because obviously you can't have the people with all of the guns being properly informed on what is actually going on.
dotnotbot
Member
Thankfully it seems like they failed and the situation is now under control.
akimbo009
Gold Member
Tracks
Insane Metal
Member
Bot, so that's a fake right?
Yes. It's a parody account.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
So, I wouldn't take his stated reasons at face value, particularly given the sustained and bungling efforts to create a pretext or narrative, none of which have really worked. They claim they're "rooting out Nazis" or protecting the Russian-speaking regions in the east, while also claiming that Ukraine is historically Russian and making allusions to restoring Imperial Russia.
All of this is pretty much bullshit. Russia has been frustrated by Ukraine's increasingly western leanings. Their overtures to join NATO and the EU are something of a red line for Putin. Putin has obviously long seen weakening NATO as an important strategic goal (one of the big reasons for Putin's interest in Trump was likely Trump's distaste for NATO), and having this huge country on their boarder join NATO would be very bad, in the Putin worldview.
The 2014 revolution in Ukraine that ousted the Russian-loyal Vikor Yanukovich is seem by some as something of a proxy war with the US, although Zelensky seems more independent.
But there's also an economic incentive. Russia's economy depends heavily on fossil fuel exports, and they have a number of key pipelines that run through Ukraine and which Russia has to pay Ukraine to use. And there's a lot of untapped oil in Ukraine that, theoretically could seriously undercut Russia's exports to Europe.
None of which would seem to justify the heavy costs Russia is paying for this. It's clear that Putin vastly underestimated the response from the international community, as well as the difficulty of the war itself. It seems like a desperately bad judgement call, but they don't really have a way out now without looking weak/embarrassing themselves.
Here's a decent explainer:
And this:
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sonicwebster
Banned
What is preventing NATO doing protection sorties, ala Kosovo, hitting only yeah military formations and targets and essentially eliminating the Russian Artillery and armored that's attacking and killing cities.? Obviously they don't care about the sanctions because they haven't pulled back why not go in and use the tool that NATO is?
Thaedolus
Member
Because that’s a red line for Putin and an express trip to Nuketown
sonicwebster
Banned
Weight really even if it's just limited to just sending Ukrainian territory it sounds like Putin has gone mad that's scary.
Saudi Arabia has a vested interest in this war ending quickly, as the majority of the wheat in Middle east comes from Russia and Ukraine. If this drags on into harvest season, we are going to see a destabilization in the middle east that makes the Arab spring(which was caused by a poor harvest causing an increase in wheat prices) look like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Vestal
Junior Member
I think something needs to be made clear about this. This doesn't mean he is going to react by launching nukes. But this takes us into an unknown territory on this planet. Two Nuclear powers in direct conflict.Weight really even if it's just limited to just sending Ukrainian territory it sounds like Putin has gone mad that's scary.
The consensus has always been that MAD will prevent any chance of a nuclear exchanged between nations... But that has never been put to the test under direct military conflict.
Hoddi
Member
Boris Yeltsin himself had the long-term goal of Russia eventually joining NATO according to his own foreign minister. Painting this as someone going back on their agreements is insidious to say the least.
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FunkMiller
Member
And then the cretinous Russian people voted him out in favour of Putin, because he wasn't enough of a strong man for them. I just feel sorry for the younger generation who never had the chance to reject the little shitheel.
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InverseAgonist
Banned
This stupid fuck is a Senator.
This is exactly what I was warning about the other day here, too much of the West has switched the end-goal of our actions to be regime change in Russia. This is extremely dangerous and so damn escalatory. We need be realists and turn this war off as-soon-as-possible by giving Putin an option to save face, return to Minsk Protocol type outlines that includes the separatist states existing under a Russian sphere of influence and prevent the total capitulation, domination and assimilation of Ukraine wit large. Too many people are dying already and this prick is laying out a road to escalation and making the Russians state think they are under existential threat -- which happens to be a condition for nuclear weapons use under their doctrine.
This is exactly what I was warning about the other day here, too much of the West has switched the end-goal of our actions to be regime change in Russia. This is extremely dangerous and so damn escalatory. We need be realists and turn this war off as-soon-as-possible by giving Putin an option to save face, return to Minsk Protocol type outlines that includes the separatist states existing under a Russian sphere of influence and prevent the total capitulation, domination and assimilation of Ukraine wit large. Too many people are dying already and this prick is laying out a road to escalation and making the Russians state think they are under existential threat -- which happens to be a condition for nuclear weapons use under their doctrine.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
One of the most corrupt and brutal regimes in the world has even had enough of this bullshit. Putin looks like a fucking fool. He upset the delicate political and economic balance that the world has slowly built for decades. Countries that have nothing in common working together for personal gain. Political and religious differences ignored for the common good of everyone involved. A balance that Putin himself has chipped away at to great effect and for great cost. Specifically in the west where he has sown discord and mistrust amongst all the major powers of NATO. Then in one sweeping move of abject idiocy he has united the entire western world against him. NATO and the EU have never been more united. Countries that previously had no use for NATO are now trying to join it thus strengthening it further. NATO has not been this united on anything since the cold war. He has taken his enemies and made them even stronger while making himself look weak and completely destroying his own country in the process. Russia will take years to recover from this disaster even if they "win". Their economy exists only on paper at this point. His handling of the war has also destroyed the illusion of Russian strength. They look incompetent and undersupplied thus making them a weaker ally to have on the world stage.
I have to imagine that China and the Saudis are giving Putin the god damn death stare at this point. He has cost them both economically and more importantly politically. They need the west to be disorganized and dependent on foreign goods. Putin just shined a huge ass light on what happens when countries allow themselves to be that economically dependent on foreign nations. Now the talk everywhere is about independent energy and manufacturing. Putin made the entire world realize they need to be more independent. He has made the west realize they should be dealing between themselves rather than relying on those who are directly opposed to them both ideologically and morally.
Good job you fucking moron.
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Hoddi
Member
I take massive issue with the 'strongman' label itself. Even our own Western media has never been shy about using those labels when it's literally just propaganda fuel for them.
I've seen the term 'Russian strongman Putin' far too often even on BBC and CNN. And the same goes for Lukashenko. They should be calling them 'diminutive' and 'impotent' because those are more accurate.
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NickFire
Member
Every major media outlet is reporting on conditions at a nuclear reactor the Russians have attacked. Enough is enough. Of course men are going to start standing up.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I mean.....he's not wrong. Putin has fucking lost it. He has destroyed his own country and is actively committing war crimes while the world watches in another country. I get the nuclear threat obviously, but at some point something has to give one way or another. I don't blame anyone for hoping that Putin trips and falls onto a bullet.
And I hate Lindsey Graham. But when you are right you are right.
InverseAgonist
Banned
Words have consequences. If you believe Putin is acutely stressed and mentally strained over the basic level of paranoia that exists in his mind about western encroachment on Russia and his leadership, perhaps it's best not to actually say you want him to be overthrown when you're a Senator of a country that has a history of successful (and not so successful) assassination and coup d'états of Communist leaders.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
As a reactive leftist piece of shit I never thought I would see those words and facepalm myself so hard that I need to go into concussion protocol.
DeepEnigma
pramod
DeepBreath87
Halo is Back
EviLore
strange headache
@Literally everyone else who knew me from the Politics section.Laugh at me for my past words. I fucking deserve it here. So. Fucking. hard.
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Fare thee well
Neophyte
Yes. And already there is a great deal of talks to re-deploy manufacturing in countries that transitioned away from it. Covid and this war have made permanent history. We are living it.One of the most corrupt and brutal regimes in the world has even had enough of this bullshit. Putin looks like a fucking fool. He upset the delicate political and economic balance that the world has slowly built for decades. Countries that have nothing in common working together for personal gain. Political and religious differences ignored for the common good of everyone involved. A balance that Putin himself has chipped away at to great effect and for great cost. Specifically in the west where he has sown discord and mistrust amongst all the major powers of NATO. Then in one sweeping move of abject idiocy he has united the entire western world against him. NATO and the EU have never been more united. Countries that previously had no use for NATO are now trying to join it thus strengthening it further. NATO has not been this united on anything since the cold war. He has taken his enemies and made them even stronger while making himself look weak and completely destroying his own country in the process. Russia will take years to recover from this disaster even if they "win". Their economy exists only on paper at this point. His handling of the war has also destroyed the illusion of Russian strength. They look incompetent and undersupplied thus making them a weaker ally to have on the world stage.
I have to imagine that China and the Saudis are giving Putin the god damn death stare at this point. He has cost them both economically and more importantly politically. They need the west to be disorganized and dependent on foreign goods. Putin just shined a huge ass light on what happens when countries allow themselves to be that economically dependent on foreign nations. Now the talk everywhere is about independent energy and manufacturing. Putin made the entire world realize they need to be more independent. He has made the west realize they should be dealing between themselves rather than relying on those who are directly opposed to them both ideologically and morally.
Good job you fucking moron.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
As a reactive leftist piece of shit I never thought I would see those words and facepalm myself so hard that I need to go into concussion protocol.
Laugh at me for my past words. I fucking deserve it here. So. Fucking. hard.
Nobody_Important
, circa 2022
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I have no words. No way to twist this one. Like the ghost of Christmas past my own words come back to haunt me.
I deserve this
Freelance Yakuza
Member
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky survives three assassination attempts in the last week: report
The assassination plots were foiled when anti-war Russians fed intel to Ukraine about two separate mercenary groups that planned to launch the attacks, the Times of London reported.
nypost.com
we need to even things out
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