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[HerjansEagleFeeder]

The West isn't weak. It's been unwilling, cause they learned lessons. This has been compounded by the fact it takes 1/10 the people and resources to annihilate their advisary. It's a bit ironic that over time war probably looks more like battle bots than not... And then, what's the fucking point? Don't need to be all going ho to realize that technology will either eradicate us as a species or make war moot. There will be a lot of steps forward/back as we obviously see, but ideal state isn't more people willing to die for their nation - it's a false dichotomy.

Not sure I understand what you're concluding here. But I'm convinced that as long as there are two human individuals alive on this planet earth, there will be enmity. To deny the simple existential fact of enmity doesn't magically make enmity go away, just as pacifists don't make a political point unless they're willing to die in a fight for their pacifism.

Political arguments can't be decided scientifically, because the root of political dissent lies in metaphysics. People believe what they believe. Science and reason have no say in this domain. As long as there a nations, there is war between them. The stronger ones survive, the rest goes down in history as the unjust belligerents. If you want Western civilization to survive, prepare for war. And never let your guard down.

 

[BadBurger]

EU and US pushed to russia's boarders, overthrow the ukraine government and became a danger for russia's water ways. Russia doesn't want EU/US on there boarder. EU/US overplayed there cards which resulted in a invasion on crimea in 2014. EU/US and Ukraine started to push further again russia warned them 300 times they didn't like it. Nobody listens and they started to invade.

Ukraine is a boarder country its simple as that, putin has all the reasons to invade ukraine, his goal is the right side of ukraine that also supports him in some form, in order to get eu/us off his boarders.

Ukraine had never anything to say over its own country. This is why agreements are made to keep russia of them and the EU off them. EU overplayed there cards and this the result.

Now should putin invade ukraine and kill a whole bunch of people for the sake of it, no. But he wants to keep US/EU from its back. Putin wants to split the country most likely up, or put entire of ukraine under his control to create a buffer zone which ukraine always was.

Yea, these are some of the explanations Putin has presented, but he's been rather incoherent about things. Now he has moved onto saying Ukraine is run by nazi terrorists, and he's also admitted that he wants a return of the Soviet Union or something like it.

And of course there's also the massive natural gas reserves in and around Crimea.

At the end of the day fuck Putin, he's the obvious aggressor and directing his army to invade a peaceful country and now even bomb their villages and cities. So just speaking generally (not to anyone in particular): fuck him and his whirlwind of reasons at this point.

 

[Hypereides]

Russia just instated a new law effective immediately that gives 15 years of prison for spreading "disinformation" about the Russian military.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Russia just instated a new law effective immediately that gives 15 years of prison for spreading "disinformation" about the Russian military.

Usually giving valid information is the kind of thing that gets that sort of attention.

 

[niilokin]

interesting read, apologize if repost

 

[sinnergy]

Russia just instated a new law effective immediately that gives 15 years of prison for spreading "disinformation" about the Russian military.

But an invasion is totally okay guys ! Nothing going on! Please West, continue what you are doing ! Nothing to see here WTF Putin is bat shit insane .

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But an invasion is totally okay guys ! Nothing going on! Please West, continue what you are doing ! Nothing to see here WTF Putin is bad shit insane .

Going by what's happening now, one of two things will happen:

1. Russia takes over Ukraine, where Russia doesnt give a shit about all the sanctions (they havent cared yet as they are still on the offensive)

2. Russia decides to pull out because Putin changes his mind due to the economy being hit so bad or their military cant make enough advances to win so it all fizzles out. NATO's passive strategy of holding out joining the fight directly by doing supply drops outlasts Russia

 

[sinnergy]

Going by what's happening now, one of two things will happen:

1. Russia takes over Ukraine, where Russia doesnt give a shit about all the sanctions (they havent cared yet as they are still on the offensive)

2. Russia decides to pull out because Putin changes his mind due to the economy being hit so bad or their military cant make enough advances to win so it all fizzles out. NATO's passive strategy of holding out joining the fight directly by doing supply drops outlasts Russia

Probably , but there is 3 imo, Russia gets the boarders near Russia of the Ukraine . Ukrainians get the west part of the Ukraine. He adds some more countries that split-up, and that’s that. He has his bigger Russia, we place more military around all the boards with Romania and Poland , Sweden and Finland join the NATO, New Ukraine gets denied to the NATO membership .

 

[Wildebeest]

Some timeline that can help understand the context a bit:

-2012: A large reserve of natural gas is found in the region/sea of Crimea

This timeline is a bit fishy and "just so".

Independent Ukraine had at one point good opinions of Russia and willingly gave up their nuclear arsenal.

In 2008 they started the process to join NATO alliance when George W Bush told them and Nato to consider it but many core NATO nations objected, and it was not clear at all it would ever happen. There was no reason to annoy Russia who were a trading partner and no longer capable of an offensive war against the west, Nato was an obsolete Cold War artefact, and so on.

Then in 2010 came the election of a Russian puppet in Ukraine, with many stories about election fraud and voter intimidation. This was really a time when general opinion of Russia in Ukraine started to sour and people became quite militantly convinced that they had to oppose Russian influence in extraordinary ways since Russia was influencing their politics in extraordinary ways.

 

[sobaka770]

I think that the pressure and weakness of Russia is getting way overblown in the western press.

People (CNN "experts") said Russia would take Ukraine in 2 days but that's bullshit. Same with US assessments. They are just as biased as Russian media.

Georgia offensive was 2 weeks, a much smaller country with less military without even going to the capital. They surrendered to all the demands.

Ukraine is huge with much larger military and taking over a city is a mess. Russia keeps taking key infrastructure objectives at a solid pace especially in the south - they just got the nuclear plant this morning.

What's good to say that Kiev is still standing if it's surrounded anyway with no chance of breakthrough?

Money wise, please, educate me on this rough calculus.

Oil and gas is 50% of Russia GDP.

Since the start of the conflict - oil is up 20% and rising, gas - more than doubled and going up.

EU sanctioned almost everything but gas and oil exports. In mathematical terms - seems like Russia might be compensating sanctions just with these price increases? (Considering that China trade is still very much active and also represents a big part of the remaining pie)

 

[Darius87]

if things keeps escalating even more NATO should get involved for defensive mission in Ukraine to defend vulnerable objects like nuclear power plants, chemical facilities etc.. also to ensure safe corridors for civilians escaping from bombed cities that doesn't mean NATO directly should get into conflict with russians but if attacked of course they have right to defend.
NATO, America and Europe need to grow balls before isn't to late sanctions isn't enough putin attacks on nuclear power plants just show how desperate he's become he could do any type of false flag operation and put blame west for example: drop small nuke on his own country where no one lives and start nukeclear war there's many possibilities.

 

[Alx]

interesting read, apologize if repost

Funny, while browsing the pictures of the paratroopers I couldn't help comparing them to the gay iconography created by Jean-Paul Gaultier, based on that striped shirt design. Ironic considering the current homophobic stance of Russian government/culture.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

LimanimaPT is right. This might be too disturbing for some.

 

[GymWolf]

Zelenskyy better live and come to the country I live in, cuz, holy shit, he can have and do whatever the fuck he wants with this body.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

he can have and do whatever the fuck he wants with this body.

 

[NoviDon]

You think he has enough rockets?

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

 

[Bullet Club]

 

[darrylgorn]

This is about Putin, not the Russian people.

Let's punish Russians while Putin does whatever he wants.

 

[Mokus]

You think he has enough rockets?

That's how my inventory looks like in Fallout games, even if it's slows me down.

 

[thuGG_pl]

This is about Putin, not the Russian people.

Let's punish Russians while Putin does whatever he wants.

You can't really separate that. If you have an idea how to punish Putin without punishing Russians then go ahead.

 

[Von Hugh]

This is about Putin, not the Russian people.

Let's punish Russians while Putin does whatever he wants.

You can't really punish Putin directly.

 

[niilokin]

i had to watch that first video couple of times until I realized that piece they stumbling on isn't huge chunk of meat but fabric

 

[darrylgorn]

You can't really separate that. If you have an idea how to punish Putin without punishing Russians then go ahead.

I've been saying from day one of this that we need to get our military in there.

That hasn't changed.

 

[LimanimaPT]

Please don't post any graphic content as it is unecessary and could cause the thread to be closed. We know war is violent.

 

[Wildebeest]

I've been saying from day one of this that we need to get our military in there.

That hasn't changed.

You understand that to remove sanctions we would not only have to kick Russia out of Ukraine, risking nuclear escalation, but push into Moscow and regime change, guaranteeing it.

 

[thuGG_pl]

I've been saying from day one of this that we need to get our military in there.

That hasn't changed.

Ahh, so WW3 is a better solution than sanctions. Instead of punishing Russians we will punish half of the world. Great idea

 

[Hypereides]

I've been saying from day one of this that we need to get our military in there.

That hasn't changed.

I'm thankful we got leaders that are clearheaded and don't contemplate hazardous decisions like you.

 

[Amiga]

Sugars in the west will be the ultimate blood sacrifice.

Depends. Soy on some parts is the most vital food. not hard to imagine a beef vs soy resource threats.

 

[darrylgorn]

You understand that to remove sanctions we would not only have to kick Russia out of Ukraine, risking nuclear escalation, but push into Moscow and regime change, guaranteeing it.

We have to drive their forces out of Ukraine and defend its borders.

Every day we wait just cements the annexation of Ukraine and them pushing beyond to neighbouring countries.

 

[darrylgorn]

I'm thankful we got leaders that are clearheaded and don't contemplate hazardous decisions like you.

The hazards are coming closer to us as we do nothing but punish people who can't do anything about this anyway.

These sanctions aren't doing anything productive.

 

[betrayal]

I am completely on the side of Ukraine. Nothing justifies this war and the invasion of Russia. But all this shit around the fire and shelling at the nuclear power plant still raises questions.

By now it seems that Russian units fired large-caliber bullets from vehicles at an office building from which they were fired upon. This is also where the fire broke out. There were no missiles or tanks attacking reactors at any time (the flashes in the video are flares to lighten the darkness).

Despite all this, Selensky officially claims the following: "Russian tanks are shooting at the nuclear blocks. These are tanks equipped with thermal imagers, so they know what they are shooting at. [...] For the first time ever in our history, in the history of mankind, the terrorist country has reverted to nuclear terror."

I can partly understand Selensky, but his diplomatic skills or you may even call it propaganda are slowly endangering more and more people and I am not sure if this is the right way when Russia is already threatening several million lives.

 

[Wildebeest]

We have to drive their forces out of Ukraine and defend its borders.

Every day we wait just cements the annexation of Ukraine and them pushing beyond to neighbouring countries.

You can say that, but I don't think our leaders would see that as a condition for removing sanctions from the Russian people and normalizing relations with Russia.

 

[thuGG_pl]

The hazards are coming closer to us as we do nothing but punish people who can't do anything about this anyway.

These sanctions aren't doing anything productive.

They are loosing a lot of mone right now. I've read estimation of 2 bln dollars per day. They are losing their ability to fly (commercialy). Their currency is worth shit. Until today they didn't open their stock market (for a week now).
It will not be visible in 1-2 days, but give it a few weeks.

 

[Spaceman292]

You think he has enough rockets?

Hope he tied his shoelaces securely

 

[JLB]

“
At the start of the conflict last week, the US offered to evacuate Zelensky, 44, from Kyiv as the siege unfolded but he declined.

“The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride,” he said, according to the Associated Press.
“

Now that’s leadership.

Respect for Zelensky. He knows that is an inevitable death sentence. Hopefully history will put him in the place that deserves.

 

[LimanimaPT]

I'm in such a state that I just want ukraine to give up and end all this madness. A nuclear incident is bound to happen.

 

[ManaByte]

Eh the quoted Tweet was accurate. No lies detected.

 

[darrylgorn]

They are loosing a lot of mone right now. I've read estimation of 2 bln dollars per day. They are losing their ability to fly (commercialy). Their currency is worth shit. Until today they didn't open their stock market (for a week now).
It will not be visible in 1-2 days, but give it a few weeks.

For sure, but it's clear that these measures are just hurting Russian people and not stopping Russia's military action.

And it's hurting us as well in the process.

If the case can be made that this will somehow lead to Putin backing down, I'm open to it, but that's just not happening right now.

At some point, we have to accept the reality of this situation and have to courage to fight this evil.

 

[Mokus]

I think that the pressure and weakness of Russia is getting way overblown in the western press.

People (CNN "experts") said Russia would take Ukraine in 2 days but that's bullshit. Same with US assessments. They are just as biased as Russian media.

Georgia offensive was 2 weeks, a much smaller country with less military without even going to the capital. They surrendered to all the demands.

Ukraine is huge with much larger military and taking over a city is a mess. Russia keeps taking key infrastructure objectives at a solid pace especially in the south - they just got the nuclear plant this morning.

What's good to say that Kiev is still standing if it's surrounded anyway with no chance of breakthrough?

Money wise, please, educate me on this rough calculus.

Oil and gas is 50% of Russia GDP.

Since the start of the conflict - oil is up 20% and rising, gas - more than doubled and going up.

EU sanctioned almost everything but gas and oil exports. In mathematical terms - seems like Russia might be compensating sanctions just with these price increases? (Considering that China trade is still very much active and also represents a big part of the remaining pie)

China can't afford that this war to drag on. They already have a big problem on their hands with the rising prices of fossil fuels from last year when they started shuting down electricity in entire industrial cities, just to save money.

The rising prices on gas may be good news for Russia but very bad news for China. It will affect further directly most of the population from China who don't have nowhere nearly as high income of the european citizens. And then factories will have to either make cuts or sell more expensive. But more expensive can mean less demand for products. Not to mention consumers from Europe and North America will already buy less because of the rising prices on their end. China is big importer of many goods that will get more expensive on the international markets because of the war. This why they can't commit to support fully Russia in this war, they really need cheap fossil fuel for the type of economy they have.

 

[Amiga]

 

[Wildebeest]

I'm in such a state that I just want ukraine to give up and end all this madness. A nuclear incident is bound to happen.

 

[DrAspirino]

I think that, from the precise attack at a nuclear power plant, we all got the message VERY clear that Putin is willing to go "all out nuclear" if need arises.

Now THAT'S a threat to NATO and the EU, should they interfere.

NATO and the EU won't get involved. Since that attack they know what Putin is risking and they're not willing to nuke their own continent. IF, for whatever reason, NATO gets involved, then it's been a pleasure knowing all of you, because that's full WW3.

 

[Rest]

If the Russians are giving out free tanks, I think I might go get one. Suck on that, Nick Moran!

 

[TheDreadLord]

Jeez, people are really slow to realize things. This was clear since the very beginning when they established the main attack columns. Putin end goal here is to remove Ukrainian gov from Kiev and probably come up with two/three new puppet republics down there so it doesn’t matter if what is left from Ukraine joins EU, NATO, Green Peace, WTF, whatever.

 

[Guilty_AI]

This timeline is a bit fishy and "just so".

Independent Ukraine had at one point good opinions of Russia and willingly gave up their nuclear arsenal.

In 2008 they started the process to join NATO alliance when George W Bush told them and Nato to consider it but many core NATO nations objected, and it was not clear at all it would ever happen. There was no reason to annoy Russia who were a trading partner and no longer capable of an offensive war against the west, Nato was an obsolete Cold War artefact, and so on.

Then in 2010 came the election of a Russian puppet in Ukraine, with many stories about election fraud and voter intimidation. This was really a time when general opinion of Russia in Ukraine started to sour and people became quite militantly convinced that they had to oppose Russian influence in extraordinary ways since Russia was influencing their politics in extraordinary ways.

You know where else there are lots of stories of election fraud? US. Not just 2020, but even with the 2016's a completely opposing group was claiming external interference. In fact, i remember hearing about those as far back as Bush son times.

How real are any of those claims? We don't know. We're too much of normies to be privy to hypothetical information buried deep in some classified archives. But sure enough, i don't discard the possibility of both Russian and American heavy interference in Ukraine political affairs for their own nefarious purposes, installing their own forms of puppet government whatever the means.

Do you want to find some 'good guy' in this whole story, so you can feel good about supporting the correct side of justice? Go do that mental exercise by yourself and forget about me. I'm not a fan of searching for clean fish in murky waters.

 

[Wildebeest]

You know where else there are lots of stories of election fraud? US. Not just 2020, but even with the 2016's a completely opposing group was claiming external interference. In fact, i remember hearing about those as far back as Bush son times.

How real are any of those claims? We don't know. We're too much of normies to be privy to information buried deep in some classified archives. But sure enough, i don't discard the possibility of both Russian and American heavy interference in Ukraine political affairs for their own nefarious purposes, installing their own forms of puppet government whatever the means.

Do you want to find some 'good guy' in this whole story, so you can feel good about supporting the correct side of justice? Go do that mental exercise by yourself and forget about me. I'm not a fan of searching for clean fish in murky waters.

Your timeline selectively chooses some "theory" to use, a basis which must be proved. I just show some of what it misses a lot out to make that seem more concrete than it is. It is no secret conspiracy that there has been a lot of US influence across the former soviet world and that it is more about money and power, not free unicorns and rainbows for all. The reality is not that we must find some "good guy" but we must allow Ukraine to decide for themselves who the "least bad" guys are for their own leadership and allies.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Your timeline selectively chooses some "theory" to use, a basis which must be proved. I just show some of what it misses a lot out to make that seem more concrete than it is. It is no secret conspiracy that there has been a lot of US influence across the former soviet world and that it is more about money and power, not free unicorns and rainbows for all. The reality is not that we must find some "good guy" but we must allow Ukraine to decide for themselves who the "least bad" guys are for their own leadership and allies.

Yeah, and who exactly is Ukraine? I think you forget but countries aren't exactly an unity. Your 'proposal' is akin to telling them to wage civil war amongst themselves, which saw external interference anyway and could hardly be described as deciding for themselves in the end.

 

[IDKFA]

Can somebody explain to me the long-term strategic consequences mentioned in this tweet?

 

[Sakura]

I am completely on the side of Ukraine. Nothing justifies this war and the invasion of Russia. But all this shit around the fire and shelling at the nuclear power plant still raises questions.

By now it seems that Russian units fired large-caliber bullets from vehicles at an office building from which they were fired upon. This is also where the fire broke out. There were no missiles or tanks attacking reactors at any time (the flashes in the video are flares to lighten the darkness).

Despite all this, Selensky officially claims the following: "Russian tanks are shooting at the nuclear blocks. These are tanks equipped with thermal imagers, so they know what they are shooting at. [...] For the first time ever in our history, in the history of mankind, the terrorist country has reverted to nuclear terror."

I can partly understand Selensky, but his diplomatic skills or you may even call it propaganda are slowly endangering more and more people and I am not sure if this is the right way when Russia is already threatening several million lives.

They are trying to drag the west into the war.
From the latest BBC article on it "The ministry urges the international community to help force Russian troops out of the area, to ensure its safety."
They've also been constantly calling for no fly zones for the same reason.
I understand why they want the west involved but it isn't going to happen.