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[Liljagare]

The curious case of Russia’s missing air force

Experts had expected the invaders to use their planes to pick off Ukraine’s forces at will

www.economist.com

 

[Thaedolus]

Thought this was a good watch. For those interested in a bit of nuance:



Now. For those of you who watch the first few minutes then quit out and are ready to jump back here claiming 'apologist' or 'propagandist', stop yourself.

Watch the whole thing, and then come back here and tell me with a striaght face, and in good faith, that it isn't 100% true.

This guy might be the world record holder for the ratio of talking a lot while saying practically nothing.

“This whole thing is complicated so if you believe Putin is the big bad then you’ve been fed propaganda!”

Or maybe Russia’s just a bad fucking actor. Maybe there are good guys and bad guys, even if you supposedly have found some contradictions or hypocrisy on our side too.

 

[EviLore]

Vice News interviews Zelenskyy, and lots more footage of the situation on the ground in Ukraine, as well as the crackdown of anti-war protesters in Russia.

 

[Catphish]

This guy might be the world record holder for the ratio of talking a lot while saying practically nothing.

“This whole thing is complicated so if you believe Putin is the big bad then you’ve been fed propaganda!”

Or maybe Russia’s just a bad fucking actor. Maybe there are good guys and bad guys, even if you supposedly have found some contradictions or hypocrisy on our side too.

I think that's an over simplification of what was said in the video.

True, he talks a lot, much of which is noise. I used to be a fan of his, and fell off for that exact reason.

But I think there's enough presented here to simply support the notion that this isn't black-and-white, and to say it is, really, is to do the Ukrainian people a disservice.

It behooves us to understand as much as we can about this conflict besides simply defaulting to "Putin Hitler" (which he may well be).

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Edgelord79]

I think that's an over simplification of what was said in the video.

True, he talks a lot, much of which is noise. I used to be a fan of his, and fell off for that exact reason.

But I think there's enough presented here to simply support the notion that this isn't black-and-white, and to say it is, really, is to do the Ukrainian people a disservice.

It behooves us to understand as much as we can about this conflict besides simply defaulting to "Putin Hitler" (which he may well be).

It’s black and white when you start bombing maternity wards and civilians. There is evil and not evil. Putin is evil now.

There is no grey here.

 

[Catphish]

It’s black and white when you start bombing maternity wards and civilians. There is evil and not evil. Putin is evil now.

There is no grey here.

If you want to understand how we got to where we are, yeah, there is grey. Lots of it.

But I'll be the last person to tell another what to think. Do as you will.

 

[MrMephistoX]

In Mother Russia Maternity Ward Bombs You?

 

[darrylgorn]

Vice News interviews Zelenskyy, and lots more footage of the situation on the ground in Ukraine, as well as the crackdown of anti-war protesters in Russia.

Russia claiming civilian casualties is 'fake news' sounds familiar.

I feel like talks are going nowhere and we will be seeing fighting with the west very soon.

 

[Thaedolus]

I think that's an over simplification of what was said in the video.

True, he talks a lot, much of which is noise. I used to be a fan of his, and fell off for that exact reason.

But I think there's enough presented here to simply support the notion that this isn't black-and-white, and to say it is, really, is to do the Ukrainian people a disservice.

It behooves us to understand as much as we can about this conflict besides simply defaulting to "Putin Hitler" (which he may well be).

Nothing is ever black and white, this shouldn’t be surprising or some kind of wake up call to anyone. Ukraine is pumping out its propaganda. The west is too. Russia is too:

Guess which sides largely align with reality and which side is saying “what invasion?” That should influence how you interpret it all.

“But wait, let’s hear what they have to say!” Yes, they say there’s no war in Ukraine. So we can assess that they’re full of shit.

 

[Catphish]

Nothing is ever black and white, this shouldn’t be surprising or some kind of wake up call to anyone. Ukraine is pumping out its propaganda. The west is too. Russia is too:

Guess which sides largely align with reality and which side is saying “what invasion?” That should influence how you interpret it all.

“But wait, let’s hear what they have to say!” Yes, they say there’s no war in Ukraine. So we can assess that they’re full of shit.

Ok, but what does any of that have to do with the content of the video?

Nobody's saying anything about listening to "what they have to say".

Makes me think you didn't watch the video.

 

[Meicyn]

I think that's an over simplification of what was said in the video.

True, he talks a lot, much of which is noise. I used to be a fan of his, and fell off for that exact reason.

But I think there's enough presented here to simply support the notion that this isn't black-and-white, and to say it is, really, is to do the Ukrainian people a disservice.

It behooves us to understand as much as we can about this conflict besides simply defaulting to "Putin Hitler" (which he may well be).

We can understand the complexities without watching a greasy youtuber who cant shut the fuck up about himself for the opening 60 seconds.

You know what’s a disservice to the Ukrainians? What you’re doing.

”Hey guys I know you’re watching the local bully punch the shit out of this other kid right now, but have you stopped to consider why the bully is punching him repeatedly?”

 

[Catphish]

We can understand the complexities without watching a greasy youtuber who cant shut the fuck up about himself for the opening 60 seconds.

You know what’s a disservice to the Ukrainians? What you’re doing.

”Hey guys I know you’re watching the local bully punch the shit out of this other kid right now, but have you stopped to consider why the bully is punching him repeatedly?”

Again. Not the point of the video. Which makes me think you didn't watch it.

Why are you people responding to something you didn't watch?

 

[ManaByte]

Of course this is not allow in the US.

 

[Edgelord79]

If you want to understand how we got to where we are, yeah, there is grey. Lots of it.

But I'll be the last person to tell another what to think. Do as you will.

I don’t know all the history. But I do somewhat understand the influence from Bolshevism onwards and how Putin came to power through Yeltsin and how the west has enabled him for years. I understand how he has denounced Communism while at the same time admiring Stalin. I know he’s any man who fears humiliation.

But none of this has to do with bombing maternity wards and civilians which is what I specifically was talking about it.

 

[Catphish]

I don’t know all the history. But I do somewhat understand the influence from Bolshevism onwards and how Putin came to power through Yeltsin and how the west has enabled him for years. I understand how he has denounced Communism while at the same time admiring Stalin. I know he’s any man who fears humiliation.

But none of this has to do with bombing maternity wards and civilians which is what I specifically was talking about it.

Ok? Great?

Bombing maternity wards and civilians is not what I was talking about nor was it the point of the video.

So wtf are we discussing exactly?

I mean, I get it, emotions are high, and rightly so. But for someone (me) to say, "Hey here's this thing. Might be worth a watch. Basically just saying it's important to understand the larger picture", and then be responded to like he just posted literal apologetic Russian propaganda, when it is literally anything BUT... well... It's fairly fucking aggravating.

 

[Wheeljack539]

Of course this is not allow in the US.

Unless your Lindsay Graham.

On a related note, does Putin still have his Twitter account?

 

[Thaedolus]

Ok, but what does any of that have to do with the content of the video?

Nobody's saying anything about listening to "what they have to say".

Makes me think you didn't watch the video.

The content of the video is essentially whataboutism and both sides bullshit. It’s the same Soviet playbook from 60 years ago. Here’s another useful idiot acting as a parrot for people who can’t understand any kind of nuance and think the CIA is some sort satanic dark magic organization that rules the world from the shadows.

The US wants governments around the world to act like a liberal democracy because that’s the best system for any number of reasons you can think of: human rights, business operations, education, etc. Yes, if you want to run your state like a mafia regime as Putin has done, we’ll have a problem. Yes, it’s in our best interests to not support regimes that are run like the mafia. Stunning how that works.

 

[Edgelord79]

Ok? Great?

Bombing maternity wards and civilians is not what I was talking about nor was it the point of the video.

So wtf are we discussing exactly?

I mean, I get it, emotions are high, and rightly so. But for someone (me) to say, "Hey here's this thing. Might be worth a watch. Basically just saying it's important to understand the larger picture", and then be responded to like he just posted literal apologetic Russian propaganda, when it is literally anything BUT... well... It's fairly fucking aggravating.

Fair enough. I can see your point. I apologize if I mistook the context of your post.

 

[Razorback]

I think that's an over simplification of what was said in the video.

True, he talks a lot, much of which is noise. I used to be a fan of his, and fell off for that exact reason.

But I think there's enough presented here to simply support the notion that this isn't black-and-white, and to say it is, really, is to do the Ukrainian people a disservice.

It behooves us to understand as much as we can about this conflict besides simply defaulting to "Putin Hitler" (which he may well be).

The modern world is so complex that smart people indeed do realise that most things are not black and white and require nuance and careful thought.
A simple heuristic to sound smart without actually having to do any thinking is to just assume everything has shades of grey. More often than not you will be right.
But a fire alarm that doesn't work is also always right, until the day it isn't.

 

[Catphish]

The modern world is so complex that smart people indeed do realise that most things are not black and white and require nuance and careful thought.
A simple heuristic to sound smart without actually having to do any thinking is to just assume everything has shades of grey. More often than not you will be right.
But a fire alarm that doesn't work is also always right, until the day it isn't.

*sigh*

I'm not firing blanks here, mate. And neither is the video. I'm not offering generalities that'll be right twice a day.

It's not a doctoral thesis, but he gives examples (read from someone else's report) of the hows-and-whys Ukraine has been a tug-of-war spot between the west and Russia.

You're aware of this? Great! I just thought I'd share it as an easily-digestible potential catalyst for others to give it all some deeper thought.

Fuck me if it doesn't take much to be misunderstood around here.

I'm done with defending the thing. Watch it, don't watch it. Like it, don't like it. Reply to me, don't reply to me. Whatever. I'm out.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Ok? Great?

Bombing maternity wards and civilians is not what I was talking about nor was it the point of the video.

So wtf are we discussing exactly?

I mean, I get it, emotions are high, and rightly so. But for someone (me) to say, "Hey here's this thing. Might be worth a watch. Basically just saying it's important to understand the larger picture", and then be responded to like he just posted literal apologetic Russian propaganda, when it is literally anything BUT... well... It's fairly fucking aggravating.

Then outline the point regarding the larger picture instead of letting others filter your magic beans from the noisy vomit of that inebriant. Unless the point is to make people waste their time perfidiously.

 

[Thaedolus]

*sigh*

I'm not firing blanks here, mate. And neither is the video. I'm not offering generalities that'll be right twice a day.

It's not a doctoral thesis, but he gives examples (read from someone else's report) of the hows-and-whys Ukraine has been a tug-of-war spot between the west and Russia.

You're aware of this? Great! I just thought I'd share it as an easily-digestible potential catalyst for others to give it all some deeper thought.

Fuck me if it doesn't take much to be misunderstood around here.

I'm done with defending the thing. Watch it, don't watch it. Like it, don't like it. Reply to me, don't reply to me. Whatever. I'm out.

Is there something specifically you’d like to discuss from the video? Because posting a 20 minute video as food for thought then getting your panties in a bunch when the specific thing you thought was important wasn’t addressed doesn’t really further the discussion. What point do you think he made, specifically, which hasn’t been considered yet? The 2014 stuff? Yeah that’s right out of the Russian handbook of reasons for invading. Anything else? He’s not saying anything new. He’s doing his same bullshit routine with a new coat of paint.

 

[Catphish]

Is there something specifically you’d like to discuss from the video? Because posting a 20 minute video as food for thought then getting your panties in a bunch when the specific thing you thought was important wasn’t addressed doesn’t really further the discussion. What point do you think he made, specifically, which hasn’t been considered yet? The 2014 stuff? Yeah that’s right out of the Russian handbook of reasons for invading. Anything else? He’s not saying anything new. He’s doing his same bullshit routine with a new coat of paint.

Nope, I'm good. Sorry to waste your time.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Nope, I'm good. Sorry to waste your time.

Perfidious it is.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Of course this is not allow in the US.

I mean, it’s within the countries closest tied to the war. When people from there post they pretty much deserve a reprieve from the NSFL tag (it is completely legal for a Ukrainian citizen to shoot any Russian soldier). It’s understandable we might hold the same feelings as them, but we are not there, and we are not the ones at war.

 

[Raven117]

Of course this is not allow in the US.

Are they thinking they are using Facebook for the Ukrainians to target Russian soldiers?

I just...man, I don't like this overall from the tech company perspective.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Now. For those of you who watch the first few minutes then quit out and are ready to jump back here claiming 'apologist' or 'propagandist', stop yourself.

Watch the whole thing, and then come back here and tell me with a striaght face, and in good faith, that it isn't 100% true.

No, I don't think I will.

Grey is stating the Russian citizens are largely blameless and are going to be eating shit because of Putin's war mongering.

Don't fucking march on people's streets and blow up their infrastructure. This isn't rocket science. Fuck.

Yeah, things had to happen on both sides to get to this point. That's how the world works.

 

[EviLore]

Re: Facebook's policies. It's similar to how people in this thread can celebrate videos of Russian helicopters and tanks being blown up or call for political changes, given the circumstances, but wouldn't be able to celebrate the photos of murdered Ukrainian civilians in the street without consequences. Social media companies must explicitly define their policies.

The free world has taken a side in this war, and for good reason.

 

[FunkMiller]

Thought this was a good watch. For those interested in a bit of nuance:



Now. For those of you who watch the first few minutes then quit out and are ready to jump back here claiming 'apologist' or 'propagandist', stop yourself.

Watch the whole thing, and then come back here and tell me with a striaght face, and in good faith, that it isn't 100% true.

Brand’s entire financial strategy is to post conspiratorial shit on his YouTube channels to both terrify and rile up his audience… while simultaneously posting ‘self care’ and ‘how to live in this horrible world’ bullshit as well, as ways to cope with all the conspiratorial shit he’s spreading about.

If you’re dumb enough to fall for this effective manipulation, designed to make as much money as possible off sheep, then good luck to you. Russell Brand is a smart bloke. People who fall for his routine are not.

 

[FunkMiller]

Nothing about it really makes sense. Jewish president who does homoerotic music videos declaring cossacks gay has a batallion of nazis. Its one of those things that makes me continually question whether or not this is a computer simulation or else if all the news is simply theatre.

 

[ManaByte]

Re: Facebook's policies. It's similar to how people in this thread can celebrate videos of Russian helicopters and tanks being blown up or call for political changes, given the circumstances, but wouldn't be able to celebrate the photos of murdered Ukrainian civilians in the street without consequences. Social media companies must explicitly define their policies.

The free world has taken a side in this war, and for good reason.

Yes, but Facebook is only allowing it in certain countries. If you posted anything like that in the US you'd eat a ban.

 

[ManaByte]

Unless your Lindsay Graham.

On a related note, does Putin still have his Twitter account?

Yes, it's still active because Twitter says bombing babies isn't against their rules.

 

[p_xavier]

There is a recent NPC meme going around with the caption "I Support the Current Thing.

 

[Taxexemption]

 

[Thaedolus]

Most people find posting their search history to be uncouth

 

[Taxexemption]

Most people find posting their search history to be uncouth

I have no idea what this means. I was looking for the full music video and that was all I could find.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

He worked as a comedian for awhile. The exaggeration would seem to support that clip was part of a parody project.

 

[M1chl]

Chad

 

[FunkMiller]

Jesus, dude. The man was a comedian for years. And what’s wrong with a little homoeroticism? You feeling it twitch down there?

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Yes, but Facebook is only allowing it in certain countries. If you posted anything like that in the US you'd eat a ban.

You want some random nobody facebook users in the US to suddenly get the same rules bent as the people fighting for their lives in Ukraine?

The other part of it too is that it can be considered a federal crime in the US if it’s detailed enough (and they don’t want to open that can of worms) …not exactly something you want to harbour on a social media platform that wants to survive.

In a country at war on the other hand? It’s fair game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, it's still active because Twitter says bombing babies isn't against their rules.

Mean tweets tho

 

[Taxexemption]

Jesus, dude. The man was a comedian for years. And what’s wrong with a little homoeroticism? You feeling it twitch down there?

He can do whatever he wants, I'm not saying he can't do that. It just doesn't seem real, like something out of an old british comedy.

"fabulous Jewish president of Ukraine leads the nazi resistance against Russia in the current year. But watch out, as wacky hijinks and fabulous wardrobes lead to silly shenanagins. Will the west come to his aid, will he be accepted by the Azov batallion, and will he learn the secrets of national socialism? Find out on the next episode."

 

[p_xavier]

Was a demo from Madonna's Girl Gone Wild.

 

[Thaedolus]

He can do whatever he wants, I'm not saying he can't do that. It just doesn't seem real, like something out of an old british comedy.

"fabulous Jewish president of Ukraine leads the nazi resistance against Russia in the current year. But watch out, as wacky hijinks and fabulous wardrobes lead to silly shenanagins. Will the west come to his aid, will he be accepted by the Azov batallion, and will he learn the secrets of national socialism? Find out on the next episode."

No one who has ever worn high heels knows that being invaded is a bad thing.

 

[Kilau]

Brand’s entire financial strategy is to post conspiratorial shit on his YouTube channels to both terrify and rile up his audience… while simultaneously posting ‘self care’ and ‘how to live in this horrible world’ bullshit as well, as ways to cope with all the conspiratorial shit he’s spreading about.

If you’re dumb enough to fall for this effective manipulation, designed to make as much money as possible off sheep, then good luck to you. Russell Brand is a smart bloke. People who fall for his routine are not.

That’s really Russel Brand? lol

I thought it looked like him but didn’t want to watch it.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

"and will he learn the secrets of national socialism?"

From someone reading the offered wisdom from Russian fascist entrails?

 

[M1chl]

He can do whatever he wants, I'm not saying he can't do that. It just doesn't seem real, like something out of an old british comedy.

"fabulous Jewish president of Ukraine leads the nazi resistance against Russia in the current year. But watch out, as wacky hijinks and fabulous wardrobes lead to silly shenanagins. Will the west come to his aid, will he be accepted by the Azov batallion, and will he learn the secrets of national socialism? Find out on the next episode."

Oh you trying to make sense of Russia/Bolshevik propaganda? Don't. It simply is designed, to not make sense, so they point out people who _don't believe_ and make them pay.

 

[Taxexemption]

From someone reading the offered wisdom from Russian fascist entrails?

From guerilla warfare while fighting alongside the Azov battalion. I thought the premise of the show was pretty clear based on my description.

 

[akimbo009]

Jesus, dude. The man was a comedian for years. And what’s wrong with a little homoeroticism? You feeling it twitch down there?

After the amount of hell he's been giving Russia these past couple weeks, definitely got some twitching down there for a little Zele.