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[chromhound]

 

[Maiden Voyage]

the main thing being the amount of troops that moved toward Ukraine

I’ve played enough Civ to be able to confirm this. And just like in game, when the neighbor country takes notice, you deny any aggressive intent.

 

[Ionian]

I’ve played enough Civ to be able to confirm this. And just like in game, when the neighbor country takes notice, you deny any aggressive intent.

Colonization. What a game.

Civ is too slow.

Now play Shogun. Brutal.

 

[Liljagare]

No they aren't. They don't want Moscow to be like Mariupol.

They'll push on, either managing to make gains, or retreat and lie, saying that their intentions were always much less than before. Currently, they're doing the latter.

I really dont see why people aren't listening to his statement use anymore. If you read Putins statements, and answers, tactical nukes are totally on the table. They have always been in the playbook if Russia invades a nation and doesn't reach their goals, after, levelling cities and tossing everyone and their mother against a nation, tac's are next on the playlist after chems, priored to thermobarics.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

How much money would this cost if true? How much does an airplane cost?

At least 50 bucks, maybe 75.

Spoiler

Depends on the plane, but millions a pop

 

[Wheeljack539]

Via New York Post:

Ukraine is willing to compromise on Donbass to end war: Zelensky

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is willing to compromise with Russia on Donbass because forcing soldiers out is not an option.

nypost.com

 

[akimbo009]

Via New York Post:

Ukraine is willing to compromise on Donbass to end war: Zelensky

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is willing to compromise with Russia on Donbass because forcing soldiers out is not an option.

nypost.com

Never really trust NY Post... But saw this elsewhere too. Dunno how reasonable that is. Think it's a bit early to float that option - basically would have all died for the previous status quo. Unless NATO stays on the plate as an option I don't think that's a reasonable end of all this for Ukraine.

 

[Mokus]

How much money would this cost if true? How much does an airplane cost?

I read somewhere that for the first two weeks the hardware loses were estimated around 3 billion dollars. By now it is likely more than double of that. But the biggest cost comes running the whole thing, witch is estimated to cost the russian economy $20 billion per day.

What is important with loosing hardware at this pace it is not so easy to replace them on the battlefield. It takes time to prepare and deploy them in such a huge numbers, especially the russian army was not ready for it.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Honestly that could be the best case scenario from this moment in time. Obviously nobody wants Putin to feel rewarded for what he’s done, but if it stops the violence and allows some sort of peaceful path forward, maybe it’s for the best. The west can continue to fortify Ukraine, and Putin maybe will learn that his army is such a piece of shit that it shouldn’t bother trying something like this again.

 

[Edgelord79]

I really dont see why people aren't listening to his statement use anymore. If you read Putins statements, and answers, tactical nukes are totally on the table. They have always been in the playbook if Russia invades a nation and doesn't reach their goals, after, levelling cities and tossing everyone and their mother against a nation, tac's are next on the playlist after chems, priored to thermobarics.

Part of the issue of why western nations are in a quandary regarding what to do is precisely because they’ve failed to listen to Putin. He’s been very clear over the last ten years.

The only caveat I would give to this is that Putin is now playing for his political life. If he fails to take Ukraine and then fails to take their new eastern objectives with respect to Donbas, then it becomes much more difficult to spin to the populace and maintain control over his senior people. This could in fact make this even more volatile with respect to weapons of mass destruction.

 

[TwinB242]

I agree that letting Putin keep Crimea and the breakaway regions might be the best solution if it ends the war. But in exchange the west shouldn't lift the sanctions anytime soon. Putin can have his victory, but his country should not be economically stable for the next several years at the least.

 

[dotnotbot]

Honestly that could be the best case scenario from this moment in time. Obviously nobody wants Putin to feel rewarded for what he’s done, but if it stops the violence and allows some sort of peaceful path forward, maybe it’s for the best. The west can continue to fortify Ukraine, and Putin maybe will learn that his army is such a piece of shit that it shouldn’t bother trying something like this again.

I don't know, he's been involved in Ukraine for almost 20 years. Doesn't seem to be the type who will ever give up.

Here's a great summary of history of Ukraine starting from the USSR collapse. Video is in polish but english subtitles are available. Helps to put things into the perspective and "understand" Putin's behaviour.

 

[TwinB242]

Ok this is pretty ominous and makes me think they're not going to stop anytime soon until they own all of Ukraine.

 

[Vestal]

Ok this is pretty ominous and makes me think they're not going to stop anytime soon until they own all of Ukraine.

I see Russia propaganda has entered the “saying quiet things out loud” phase of their strategy.

 

[M1chl]

 

[DragoonKain]

I’ve noticed there’s a contingent of people who are crying propaganda every time Ukraine claims war atrocity. Is this just idiot contrarians and conspiracy theorists being idiot contrarians and conspiracy theorists or is there some other motivation for this?

 

[FunkMiller]

Honestly that could be the best case scenario from this moment in time. Obviously nobody wants Putin to feel rewarded for what he’s done, but if it stops the violence and allows some sort of peaceful path forward, maybe it’s for the best. The west can continue to fortify Ukraine, and Putin maybe will learn that his army is such a piece of shit that it shouldn’t bother trying something like this again.

Allow Russia to have the Donbas to stop the killing. We know how bad Russia is now, and we’re probably entering into another Cold War period to ensure they are not able to do anything like it again. All Putin’s done is alert and enrage the west. Good work, dumb ass.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Allow Russia to have the Donbas to stop the killing. We know how bad Russia is now, and we’re probably entering into another Cold War period to ensure they are not able to do anything like it again. All Putin’s done is alert and enrage the west. Good work, dumb ass.

Yeah pretty much this. It won’t feel good to make the concession, but if the alternative is just wanton destruction and violence against innocents, potentially leading to WWIII…maybe take the deal…but like you said: nobody should be under any illusions about what Russia is these days. Sanctions should continue with everyone on the list completely black balled for life. And I think everyone should be fully aware of what the real stakes still are in the world these days.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Yeah pretty much this. It won’t feel good to make the concession, but if the alternative is just wonton destruction and violence against innocents, potentially leading to WWIII…maybe take the deal…but like you said: nobody should be under any illusions about what Russia is these days. Sanctions should continue with everyone on the list completely black balled for life. And I think everyone should be fully aware of what the real stakes still are in the world these days.

As Meme once said, it is not a plan where everything is happy; but rather it is a plan everyone is unhappy + it stop the killing. No party will get what they truly want and the unhappiness will be shared between the 2 parties.

 

[Draugoth]

 

[Pagusas]

I wonder if post war russia is going to go through massive military reforms. they can’t look at this and be like “we were efficient and good”.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I wonder if post war russia is going to go through massive military reforms. they can’t look at this and be like “we were efficient and good”.

It’ll be real hard to reform things when all the reforms needed run counter to how things are run at the top.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah pretty much this. It won’t feel good to make the concession, but if the alternative is just wonton destruction and violence against innocents, potentially leading to WWIII…maybe take the deal…but like you said: nobody should be under any illusions about what Russia is these days. Sanctions should continue with everyone on the list completely black balled for life. And I think everyone should be fully aware of what the real stakes still are in the world these days.

I'd imagine we might have a situation where the west says to Ukraine: "take it for now... we guarantee it won't last". That would hopefully end the conflict, but start the gradual degradation of Russia as a force for harm, until real change is allowed to happen. Ukraine might need to take the small loss now, to force a huge loss on Russia in the years and decades to come.

Whichever, we're headed back for another Iron Curtain again.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Whichever, we're headed back for another Iron Curtain again.

Build a wall around Russia instead, then fill it with water.

 

[n0razi]

I’ve noticed there’s a contingent of people who are crying propaganda every time Ukraine claims war atrocity. Is this just idiot contrarians and conspiracy theorists being idiot contrarians and conspiracy theorists or is there some other motivation for this?

Its usually the same people who cry propaganda/conspiracy about everything else.... ie the Q-Anons

 

[chromhound]

 

[Tams]

I really dont see why people aren't listening to his statement use anymore. If you read Putins statements, and answers, tactical nukes are totally on the table. They have always been in the playbook if Russia invades a nation and doesn't reach their goals, after, levelling cities and tossing everyone and their mother against a nation, tac's are next on the playlist after chems, priored to thermobarics.

The way you write (type?) suggests you know fuck all about this.

And thermobaric weapons are below chemical weapons is damage and indescrimate killing. Not worse than 'tactical' nuclear weapons, as your comment says.

And even Putin knows that use of any nuclear weapons is a very dangerous game to play. If even call it a 'game' is appropriate.

It also really goes against his goals. Not only would Ukrainians never accept Russian rule as a result, countries would be hammering on Nato's door to be let in. Finland and Sweden would almost immediately join. And Nato might even considering waving the 'requirements' (there never really have been any other than it being expedient) for Moldova and Georgia to join.

 

[Artoris]

I wonder if post war russia is going to go through massive military reforms. they can’t look at this and be like “we were efficient and good”.

They should not have the money to do so

 

[Lord Panda]

This is more accurate:

 

[Mokus]

This is more accurate:

 

[GymWolf]

Its the weekend, I know, but, just seems for the reading, we are getting smacked by trolls on GAF too..

Same energy

 

[darrylgorn]

I heard somewhere that a Ukrainian soldier was grateful that Russian soldiers are 'complete fucking idiots.'

 

[Wildebeest]

I heard somewhere that a Ukrainian soldier was grateful that Russian soldiers are 'complete fucking idiots.'

Eh. If they weren't complete fucking idiots, they wouldn't be there at all and the Ukrainian soldier could just stay home playing Elden Ring.

 

[darrylgorn]

Eh. If they weren't complete fucking idiots, they wouldn't be there at all and the Ukrainian soldier could just stay home playing Elden Ring.

Or a better game like Monster Hunter Rise

 

[IDKFA]

Some choice words from Zelensky in his interview with the Economist.

He strongly criticised French President Emmanuel Macron for failing to provide military support, calling Macron "afraid" of Russia. He also accused Germany for being on the fence due to their long relationship with Russia and putting their economy first.

Fair comments I think. The EU have been divided on what actions to take, with some member states not wanting to piss off Russia with stronger sanctions.

Article is locked behind a paywall - comments taking from the BBC live update stream.

 

[Alx]

Fair comments I think. The EU have been divided on what actions to take, with some member states not wanting to piss off Russia with stronger sanctions.

For the lack of stronger sanctions it's not about pissing off Russia, but because there is a large dependency on Russian goods and some countries (especially Germany) don't think they can afford a full embargo.
France is more about the war situation, considering that offering some kinds of hardware (namely planes or tanks) could make the country officially co-belligerent, which would escalate the war to NATO (may or may not be a good analysis of the risk, but it's a possibility). So yeah you can call it "being afraid of Russia", but more precisely it's "being afraid of WWIII". Ukraine is clearly ready to take the risk (like when they asked for a no fly zone), most other countries aren't.

 

[nikolino840]

I read the news that here in Italy a woman had agreed to host refugees from Ukraine but then refused because they were two blacks

 

[speckz]

Ukraine's Zelensky was interviewed by Russian journalists; Moscow ordered the story quashed, but Meduza and others based outside Russia have since published it

Zelensky Gives Interview to Russian Journalists. Moscow Orders It Quashed. (Published 2022)

The remarkable interview was still published by journalists outside of Russia, an episode that laid bare the extraordinary, and partly successful, efforts at censorship by Moscow.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Tams]

For the lack of stronger sanctions it's not about pissing off Russia, but because there is a large dependency on Russian goods and some countries (especially Germany) don't think they can afford a full embargo.
France is more about the war situation, considering that offering some kinds of hardware (namely planes or tanks) could make the country officially co-belligerent, which would escalate the war to NATO (may or may not be a good analysis of the risk, but it's a possibility). So yeah you can call it "being afraid of Russia", but more precisely it's "being afraid of WWIII". Ukraine is clearly ready to take the risk (like when they asked for a no fly zone), most other countries aren't.

No one is offering large offensive military hardware like planes and tanks (other than Poland, but even they won't do it themselves).

But even Germany have provided considerable weaponry (even if a lot of it is so old that it has rusted). France, as a the industrial defence powerhouse that they are, have offered almost nothing.

Instead Macron has been grandstanding with his attempts at diplomacy. I don't know if he's naïve with it, or knows that his chats with Putin are/have done nothing, but it's certainly boosted his profile. Hell, for what he has done (effectively nothing), he is likely to win the presidency by a landslide.

 

[Romulus]

Imagine Gulf War coalition against this Russian military. Even though that was tech from 30+ years ago, they would steamroll these guys.

 

[Fenix34]

Russian people support this war for excpet some people here. In town where i stay there's no protest action for excpet couple people including me.
P. S i am not russian.

 

[dotnotbot]

This is how Russia negotiates:

 

[Wildebeest]

Imagine Gulf War coalition against this Russian military. Even though that was tech from 30+ years ago, they would steamroll these guys.

Yes, it actually a real problem that has been known about for a long time. If the Russian Federation is crazy and stupid enough to directly aggress on NATO the mostly likely outcome is a beating so bad for Russia that they would consider it an "existential threat by conventional weapons" and use their nuclear arsenal.

 

[Alx]

No one is offering large offensive military hardware like planes and tanks (other than Poland, but even they won't do it themselves).

But even Germany have provided considerable weaponry (even if a lot of it is so old that it has rusted). France, as a the industrial defence powerhouse that they are, have offered almost nothing.

tbh I think most of the French "industrial defense powerhouse" is based on planes, tanks and boats. The Rafale alone makes for 1/4 of the total income. I don't think we make much stuff that could be useful for the Ukrainian conflict, like stingers or drones. The French army is even importing its military rifles now.

 

[Kraz]

Why Achilles? You may ask. Well, it’s a little-known fact that, according to legend, Achilles was buried on Snake Island. The eighth- or seventh-century B.C. poem the Aethiopis relates that, after he received his fatal ankle injury at Troy, Achilles’ remains were transported to the White Island by his mother Thetis. As Mateusz Stróżyński writes for Antigone, later Latin authors Pliny the Elder and Arrian give the island the name the Island of Achilles.
Philostratus’ rough contemporary Arrian confirms that there was a temple dedicated to Achilles on the White Island, and that people who visited left gifts of rings, cups and precious stones. Inscriptions at the site in Greek and Latin refer to both Achilles and his beloved Patroclus.
The ancient writer Dionysius of Alexandria notes that in addition to being called the White Island, Snake Island, and the Island of Achilles, the island was also known as the Island of Heroes. On that at least, Zelensky and the rest of us would agree.

Snake Island: in the steps of Achilles

Snake Island, in Ukraine, was supposedly the final resting place of Achilles.

kiwihellenist.blogspot.com

 

[GymWolf]

So tanks are only good against bullets basically?

Outside of that they are slow death traps waiting to be blowed off...

I'm starting to think that the soldiers who get chose to be inside a tanks got the shorter straw...

I mean seriously, you risk a vacant bullet on foot but you are way more mobile, imagine the absolute horror of being inside a tank when from the sky they are bombing the other tanks and you are just waiting to die.

No simpathy for russian cunts who are not forced to be there, but imagine the sheer fear in those moments...

 

[AJUMP23]

So tanks are only good against bullets basically?

Outside of that they are slow death traps waiting to be blowed off...

I'm starting to think that the soldiers who get chose to be inside a tanks got the shorter straw...

I mean seriously, you risk a vacant bullet on foot but you are way more mobile, imagine the absolute horror of being inside a tank when from the sky they are bombing the other tanks and you are just waiting to die.

No simpathy for russian cunts who are not forced to be there, but imagine the sheer fear in those moments...

Patton would disagree.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Patton would disagree.

His glory, our guts.

 

[GymWolf]

Patton would disagree.

Isn't doing batman now??

 

[chromhound]

Don't drink or eat anything...