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[Tams]

No sympathy for some Russians who get some bad air for a few days.

Ukraine war: Gruesome evidence points to war crimes on road outside Kyiv

The BBC finds the charred remains of civilians on a highway where Russian troops had stationed tanks.

www.bbc.com

 

[strange headache]

What? I have no personal grudge against anyone. I’m just pointing out an uncomfortable truth.
How is pointing out Germany’s policy towards Russia in the recent past reductionist? Or do you disagree their policies have enabled Putin? Because I’m afraid the facts on that are irrefutable.

We were talking about the human cost of war, which you somehow saw as yet another opportunity to bash Germany and the EU.
It is rather tactless to portray Germany and the EU of being "major contributors" to the Russian aggression, when we're all pretty much aware that EU & NATO are the biggest detractors to a Russian expansion.

Apart from military and atomic retaliation, the economic partnership that represents EU's common market is the best bulwark against Russia and the main reason why most Eastern European countries are now standing strong against Putin and in unison with the West. Economic cooperation and interdependence has been the single biggest guarantee for peace since the second World War and in that regard a cooperation with Russia has always been favorable through the lens of political détente.

You can criticize Germany for being too reliant on other countries for covering its energy needs, but making them indirectly responsible for Russia's invasion is f*cking bonkers and in extremely bad taste. Western Europe doesn't have the luxury of plentiful natural resources, so how do you suggest we europeans keep ourselves warm in the winter? Through the warming friendship with our fellow Americans, who for the past decade have professed their "America first" attitude while advancing their political isolationism? Don't be ridiculous!

Lastly, may I remind you that your previous president was on more than friendly terms with Putin while his presidential adversary was also pocketing millions of Russian money through her own foundation? The American leadership has engaged in plenty of Russian arselicking itself, but you don't see me prancing around this thread pointing fingers at partisan scapegoats.

Blaming Germany's economic cooperation for the Russian invasion is like blaming America for the eastward expansion of NATO. Hence why your hot take is highly reductive by ignoring the complexity of the situation. The only ones who are to blame for this war is Putin and his Russian leadership. We're all in this together, so stop it with the divisive rhetoric and your silly scapegoating. I suggest you let this discussion rest now.

 

[akimbo009]

We were talking about the human cost of war, which you somehow saw as yet another opportunity to bash Germany and the EU.
It is rather tactless to portray Germany and the EU of being "major contributors" to the Russian aggression, when we're all pretty much aware that EU & NATO are the biggest detractors to a Russian expansion.

Apart from military and atomic retaliation, the economic partnership that represents EU's common market is the best bulwark against Russia and the main reason why most Eastern European countries are now standing strong against Putin and in unison with the West. Economic cooperation and interdependence has been the single biggest guarantee for peace since the second World War and in that regard a cooperation with Russia has always been favorable through the lens of political détente.

You can criticize Germany for being too reliant on other countries for covering its energy needs, but making them indirectly responsible for Russia's invasion is f*cking bonkers and in extremely bad taste. Western Europe doesn't have the luxury of plentiful natural resources, so how do you suggest we europeans keep ourselves warm in the winter? Through the warming friendship with our fellow Americans, who for the past decade have professed their "America first" attitude while advancing their political isolationism? Don't be ridiculous!

Lastly, may I remind you that your previous president was on more than friendly terms with Putin while his presidential adversary was also pocketing millions of Russian money through her own foundation? The American leadership has engaged in plenty of Russian arselicking itself, but you don't see me prancing around this thread pointing fingers at partisan scapegoats.

Blaming Germany's economic cooperation for the Russian invasion is like blaming America for the eastward expansion of NATO. Hence why your hot take is highly reductive by ignoring the complexity of the situation. The only ones who are to blame for this war is Putin and his Russian leadership. We're all in this together, so stop it with the divisive rhetoric and your silly scapegoating. I suggest you let this discussion rest now.

This isn't the place but you're not right. Ostpolitik is definitely a contributing factor to what we are seeing today. And the number of entanglements between Germany and Russia are very much an issue. It's not surprising there are entanglements since that was literally the policy, but when your former PM becomes a defacto Russian Oligarch it goes from policy to corrupt.

The 5000 helmets thing is just emblematic of the whole issue. And it's not just Germany. France still is hesitant to withdraw their industries from Russia and have slow rolled their efforts.

They seem to have got the message now, but their policies leading up till now haven't been good policy. They aren't to blame at all, but Europe has long needed to realign their positions and glad they finally are.

 

[Romulus]

Let me see if I got this straight: Ukrainian air force (wow, ukraine still has an airforce) managed to fly into russian territory, they blow up an ammo and a oil depot and returned to ukraine untouched? Wow, nice defenses...

I highly doubt Russians even know how to use their own AA effectively. Even if its extremely advanced equipment, I have zero confidence if a Russian soldier is operating it. Probably a false flag operation having said that.

 

[strange headache]

This isn't the place but you're not right. Ostpolitik is definitely a contributing factor to what we are seeing today. And the number of entanglements between Germany and Russia are very much an issue. It's not surprising there are entanglements since that was literally the policy, but when your former PM becomes a defacto Russian Oligarch it goes from policy to corrupt.

The 5000 helmets thing is just emblematic of the whole issue. And it's not just Germany. France still is hesitant to withdraw their industries from Russia and have slow rolled their efforts.

They seem to have got the message now, but their policies leading up till now haven't been good policy. They aren't to blame at all, but Europe has long needed to realign their positions and glad they finally are.

What entanglements? You're aware that pretty much every Western country entertained business relations with Russia, first and foremost you Americans.
I think you are seeing this from a very American point of view without even acknowledging the situation here in Europe.

 

[AJUMP23]

Why do folks think it's a false flag? If Ukraine attacks something behind Russia lines does that some how escalate something?

It is unexpected because it seems unlikely 2 helicopters could penetrate Russian radar and air defense. Possible low flight path mission. But I want to look on the map.

I don’t think it elevates anything there is already a war. Ukraine should take the war to Russia in order to gain a better negotiatiNG position but overall I find this action unlikely.

I do hope it is Ukraines success and not a false flag.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[tommolb]

It is unexpected because it seems unlikely 2 helicopters could penetrate Russian radar and air defense. Possible low flight path mission. But I want to look on the map.

I don’t think it elevates anything there is already a war. Ukraine should take the war to Russia in order to gain a better negotiatiNG position but overall I find this action unlikely.

I do hope it is Ukraines success and not a false flag.

What does Russia have to gain by letting everyone think they can't defend themselves from a Ukrainian airforce launching attacks on strategic targets inside Russia?

The only thing it could be used for is to justify relaunching attacks on Kyiv and re-invading north Ukraine when they said they were ceasing or scaling back operations there. However, that'd be a big risk given how badly they performed the first time they tried it.

 

[speckz]

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Yeah, I don’t know what Russia stands to gain from a false flag on their own depot. Yes, maybe it could be used as justification to amp things up, but they don’t seem to care about any real justifications so why bother with a self inflicted wound to fake justification?

It’s correct to always expect some sort of deceit from them, but I’m just not sure what is worth the effort here

 

[Nikodemos]

They need to be super careful, though. Russian forces in the Southeast have smashed through Izyum, and are attempting to encircle Ukrainian forces in Donbas.
And, since most of the bridges have been blown up, Ukrainians can't move troops too easily from West to East.
Having a large river bisecting your country is a considerable strategic disadvantage.

 

[akimbo009]

What entanglements? You're aware that pretty much every Western country entertained business relations with Russia, first and foremost you Americans.
I think you are seeing this from a very American point of view without even acknowledging the situation here in Europe.

Don't do that. The US and Russia have a very very different relationship than Germany has had - in fact, Germany has had held the relationship in a very unique way for decades.

Discussion around Ostpolitik, and reproachment with Russia has long been a debate within Germany and elsewhere. Broadly, the US has been far more aggressive in managing that relationship with significant skepticism around Russia's behavior and how it engages. To the point of friction between the US and Germany (see Nord Stream, etc).

And no, the "west" isn't nearly in bed with Russia as Germany - full stop. It is enough of an issue, through intentional policy, that there was real skepticism that Germany could even do anything to counter Russia - certainly it hasn't for years.

You don't need to do revisions on reality. I'll add a few links to further clarify, but this isn't a controversial hot take or anything - it's a conversation debated for decades.

Germany’s Russia problem

www.wilsoncenter.org

Russia and the West – Do We Need a New Ostpolitik?

On January 17 the Centre for Liberal Modernity held its second international Russia conference. This year’s topic was if Germany’s policy of detente of the 1970s can offer any guidance for the right Western policy versus Moscow.

libmod.de

German ex-leader Schroeder nominated as director at Gazprom

BERLIN (AP) — Russian state-owned gas company Gazprom said Friday that German ex-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has been nominated to join its board of directors, a move that comes as the former leader has faced criticism for accusing Ukraine of “saber-rattling” during its standoff with Russia.

apnews.com

 

[AJUMP23]

What does Russia have to gain by letting everyone think they can't defend themselves from a Ukrainian airforce launching attacks on strategic targets inside Russia?

The only thing it could be used for is to justify relaunching attacks on Kyiv and re-invading north Ukraine when they said they were ceasing or scaling back operations there. However, that'd be a big risk given how badly they performed the first time they tried it.

At this point what does Russia have to lose. IT gives them an excuse to escalate. Unfortunately for Russia they look a lot worse in Ukraine then what happened in Afghanistan.

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[TwinB242]

I think everyone's jumping the gun a bit. Yes Its great that the Kyiv offensive by Russia is winding down, but I wouldn't really consider re-capturing villages that they had already abandoned to be much of a victory. Those troops are going to recover, resupply, and eventually be back for more concentrated offensives especially along the eastern side of the country. The one thing we can hope for is that many of them will be demoralized and fucked up enough that they'll desert which would further diminish Russia's capabilities.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Ohh China, you treacherous bastards

 

[strange headache]

Discussion around Ostpolitik, and reproachment with Russia has long been a debate within Germany and elsewhere. Broadly, the US has been far more aggressive in managing that relationship with significant skepticism around Russia's behavior and how it engages. To the point of friction between the US and Germany (see Nord Stream, etc).

And no, the "west" isn't nearly in bed with Russia as Germany - full stop. It is enough of an issue, through intentional policy, that there was real skepticism that Germany could even do anything to counter Russia - certainly it hasn't for years.

The hell are you talking about? Ostpolitik has never been a debate within Germany, in fact Europe's opening to the East is the reason why the European Union is standing strong against Russia. Have you ever been to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary or any other Eastern countries? The EU has brought a lot of prosperity to these countries, hence why Ukraine wanted to join too. You think ignoring Russia and further isolating them would have made things better after the cold war? Absolutely not!

Also what the hell are those sources? Seems more like the result of a desperate google search in order to confirm your cherry picking and selective arguing. Schroeder is a self-serving corrupt arsehole, but far from being the only Western ex-politician sitting in a Russian directorial board, including many American members. Schroeder clearly worked into his own pockets, but that is not something unique to German politicians as demonstrated by the fact that American investors bought half of their Eurobonds like two years ago.

Economic relations cannot be reduced to single instances like that, or are we now conveniently forgetting about your Putin-friendly ex-president and your presidential candidate whose foundation was largely backed by Russian investment money? What about the US-Russia uranium deal? I think you're forgetting that Russia is/was also an important economic partner to the US:

U.S. goods and services trade with Russia totaled an estimated $34.9 billion in 2019. Exports were $10.9 billion; imports were $24.0 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade deficit with Russia was $13.1 billion in 2019.

Lastly, what the hell is the big deal with Nord Stream? Where else do you suggest we get our gas from? Russia is close, so it is rather normal that Western Europe has lots of economic relations with them as is the case with any neighboring countries. Had Russia not invaded Ukraine, we'd still be their economic partners, Americans included! Nord Stream certainly is NOT the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine, so why even bring this up in the context of this discussion? You're clearly grasping at straws here.

The "hot take" is not Germany's economic ties with Russia or Schroeder's involvement with Gazprom. The hot take is making Germany and the EU indirectly responsible for what is happening to the Ukraine, which is quite frankly, absolutely disgusting and highly reductive. Finally the EU has done more to keep Russia at bay these past few years than America, so spare us the childish finger pointing.

It serves absolutely no purpose other than creating EU/German resentment in this very thread.

 

[LimanimaPT]

Yeah? So what? Didn't Russia did 1000x worse?

 

[haxan7]

Ohh China, you treacherous bastards

I hope that's not true. If it is, I hope it was part of their routine cyberattacks and not complicit with the invasion.

 

[Forsete]

If Russia was to stage a false flag attack they would probably bomb one of their own hospitals or a school.

An oil depot is not bloody enough for the Russian leadership. There must be tons and tons of killed civilians. Thats how they roll.

 

[Forsete]

Might be interesting.

------------------------------------------------------------------
A heart-warming video for once.

 

[EviLore]

Might be interesting.

Russia’s most elite airborne regiment! Training consists of very manly karate punch drills. Issued Soviet era arms with iron sights and ordered to run at the enemy in a straight line down the middle of Main Street.

RIP elite commandos

 

[akimbo009]

The hell are you talking about? Ostpolitik has never been a debate within Germany, in fact Europe's opening to the East is the reason why the European Union is standing strong against Russia. Have you ever been to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary or any other Eastern countries? The EU has brought a lot of prosperity to these countries, hence why Ukraine wanted to join too. You think ignoring Russia and further isolating them would have made things better after the cold war? Absolutely not!

Also what the hell are those sources? Seems more like the result of a desperate google search in order to confirm your cherry picking and selective arguing. Schroeder is a self-serving corrupt arsehole, but far from being the only Western ex-politician sitting in a Russian directorial board, including many American members. Schroeder clearly worked into his own pockets, but that is not something unique to German politicians as demonstrated by the fact that American investors bought half of their Eurobonds like two years ago.

Economic relations cannot be reduced to single instances like that, or are we now conveniently forgetting about your Putin-friendly ex-president and your presidential candidate whose foundation was largely backed by Russian investment money? What about the US-Russia uranium deal? I think you're forgetting that Russia is/was also an important economic partner to the US:



Lastly, what the hell is the big deal with Nord Stream? Where else do you suggest we get our gas from? Russia is close, so it is rather normal that Western Europe has lots of economic relations with them as is the case with any neighboring countries. Had Russia not invaded Ukraine, we'd still be their economic partners, Americans included! Nord Stream certainly is NOT the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine, so why even bring this up in the context of this discussion? You're clearly grasping at straws here.

The "hot take" is not Germany's economic ties with Russia or Schroeder's involvement with Gazprom. The hot take is making Germany and the EU indirectly responsible for what is happening to the Ukraine, which is quite frankly, absolutely disgusting and highly reductive. Finally the EU has done more to keep Russia at bay these past few years than America, so spare us the childish finger pointing.

It serves absolutely no purpose other than creating EU/German resentment in this very thread.

Completely disagree with you on many of these points. The inflexibility that the entanglements caused resulted in limited options as things escalated.

But that's fine, we don't have to agree. It's also way off topic now.

 

[Tams]

The hell are you talking about? Ostpolitik has never been a debate within Germany, in fact Europe's opening to the East is the reason why the European Union is standing strong against Russia. Have you ever been to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary or any other Eastern countries? The EU has brought a lot of prosperity to these countries, hence why Ukraine wanted to join too. You think ignoring Russia and further isolating them would have made things better after the cold war? Absolutely not!

Also what the hell are those sources? Seems more like the result of a desperate google search in order to confirm your cherry picking and selective arguing. Schroeder is a self-serving corrupt arsehole, but far from being the only Western ex-politician sitting in a Russian directorial board, including many American members. Schroeder clearly worked into his own pockets, but that is not something unique to German politicians as demonstrated by the fact that American investors bought half of their Eurobonds like two years ago.

Economic relations cannot be reduced to single instances like that, or are we now conveniently forgetting about your Putin-friendly ex-president and your presidential candidate whose foundation was largely backed by Russian investment money? What about the US-Russia uranium deal? I think you're forgetting that Russia is/was also an important economic partner to the US:



Lastly, what the hell is the big deal with Nord Stream? Where else do you suggest we get our gas from? Russia is close, so it is rather normal that Western Europe has lots of economic relations with them as is the case with any neighboring countries. Had Russia not invaded Ukraine, we'd still be their economic partners, Americans included! Nord Stream certainly is NOT the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine, so why even bring this up in the context of this discussion? You're clearly grasping at straws here.

The "hot take" is not Germany's economic ties with Russia or Schroeder's involvement with Gazprom. The hot take is making Germany and the EU indirectly responsible for what is happening to the Ukraine, which is quite frankly, absolutely disgusting and highly reductive. Finally the EU has done more to keep Russia at bay these past few years than America, so spare us the childish finger pointing.

It serves absolutely no purpose other than creating EU/German resentment in this very thread.

All that and yet it hasn't worked. Putin still feels isolated and not having of what he thinks deserves.

As authoritarians do. This has shown that you can't ever really satiate them, only appease them. And the one day, you can't appease them enough and they try to grab what they want.

I'm British, so take this was a pinch of salt; but it's this wishy-washy continental European idea that we can just all be good friends that has in part led to this.

And hell, you can see it in how unprepared, complacent, naïve, and ignorant of the situation continental European intelligence was.

The German head of intelligence had to be evacuated from fucking Kiev. The French head just got the fucking chop.

The only ones with their heads not in the sand were Eastern European countries, and the Nordics, especially Finland. As they know their Eastern neighbour all too well.

 

[Mokus]

 

[strange headache]

I'm British, so take this was a pinch of salt; but it's this wishy-washy continental European idea that we can just all be good friends that has in part led to this.

And hell, you can see it in how unprepared, complacent, naïve, and ignorant of the situation continental European intelligence was.

The only ones with their heads not in the sand were Eastern European countries, and the Nordics, especially Finland. As they know their Eastern neighbour all too well.

European idealism pretty much united Europe against Russia. Without it, Putin would already have annexed much more than what he is trying to grab now. And who are you calling naïve here? Nobody saw this really coming, not us Europeans, not the UK and also not the U.S.

Funny that you mention the Fins as I've recently visited one. They are quite happy now that they are a member of the EU. The reason they refused to join NATO was to remain on neutral terms with their neighbor as to not provoke him. Russia's aggression also came quite suddenly for them as we have now a solid majority of Fins in favor of joining NATO.

Economic, social and diplomatic interdependence still is the best guarantee for peace.

 

[speckz]

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Russia’s most elite airborne regiment! Training consists of very manly karate punch drills. Issued Soviet era arms with iron sights and ordered to run at the enemy in a straight line down the middle of Main Street.

RIP elite commandos

They're the infamous VDV, they got memed to death lol

 

[Nikodemos]

Nobody saw this really coming, not us Europeans, not the UK and also not the U.S.

The US were screaming their heads off ever since late January about the extremely suspect force build-up in Belarus and Russia, well in excess of regular military exercises.

 

[Wildebeest]

Getting Britain to leave the EU was number one on the shopping list of things Putin wanted in order to tighten the screws on Europe. If you think Brexit was great or otherwise, it is a fact that the Russians felt that the EU would be easier to bully without the UK in it. So let's not get too critical about how other states played into his hands.

 

[strange headache]

The US were screaming their heads off ever since late January about the extremely suspect force build-up in Belarus and Russia, well in excess of regular military exercises.

There's been sh*t going down in Donbas since 2014, unfortunately your then president was too busy crawling up Putin's rear while extorting Zelenskyy to dig up dirt on his political opponent. So what's your point again?

Getting Britain to leave the EU was number one on the shopping list of things Putin wanted in order to tighten the screws on Europe. If you think Brexit was great or otherwise, it is a fact that the Russians felt that the EU would be easier to bully without the UK in it. So let's not get too critical about how other states played into his hands.

This pretty much.

 

[Vestal]

 

[M1chl]

Victim complex

 

[Catphish]

Victim complex

#StopHatingRussians

Sure, when they

#StopKillingCivilians

 

[EviLore]

Russian literature is some of the greatest ever written.

Putin, however, will go down in history as an evil, incompetent loser who sacrificed the future of his country for the sake of his ego.

 

[M1chl]

#StopHatingRussians

Sure, when they

#StopKillingCivilians

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

The Telegraph reports that a Russian soldier has died from radiation poisoning as a result of exposure in the Chornobyl exclusion zone. The US has stated it cannot verify claims of radiation poisoning, but the facility was handed back to Ukrainian civilian control yesterday.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...n-soldier-dies-radiation-poisoning-chernobyl/

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

It "seems" china did not do it. But could be to avoid making them angry. We may never know.

 

[FunkMiller]

We were talking about the human cost of war, which you somehow saw as yet another opportunity to bash Germany and the EU.
It is rather tactless to portray Germany and the EU of being "major contributors" to the Russian aggression, when we're all pretty much aware that EU & NATO are the biggest detractors to a Russian expansion.

Apart from military and atomic retaliation, the economic partnership that represents EU's common market is the best bulwark against Russia and the main reason why most Eastern European countries are now standing strong against Putin and in unison with the West. Economic cooperation and interdependence has been the single biggest guarantee for peace since the second World War and in that regard a cooperation with Russia has always been favorable through the lens of political détente.

You can criticize Germany for being too reliant on other countries for covering its energy needs, but making them indirectly responsible for Russia's invasion is f*cking bonkers and in extremely bad taste. Western Europe doesn't have the luxury of plentiful natural resources, so how do you suggest we europeans keep ourselves warm in the winter? Through the warming friendship with our fellow Americans, who for the past decade have professed their "America first" attitude while advancing their political isolationism? Don't be ridiculous!

Lastly, may I remind you that your previous president was on more than friendly terms with Putin while his presidential adversary was also pocketing millions of Russian money through her own foundation? The American leadership has engaged in plenty of Russian arselicking itself, but you don't see me prancing around this thread pointing fingers at partisan scapegoats.

Blaming Germany's economic cooperation for the Russian invasion is like blaming America for the eastward expansion of NATO. Hence why your hot take is highly reductive by ignoring the complexity of the situation. The only ones who are to blame for this war is Putin and his Russian leadership. We're all in this together, so stop it with the divisive rhetoric and your silly scapegoating. I suggest you let this discussion rest now.

More sounds to me like you’re uncomfortable with the red carpet Germany and the EU rolled out for Putin for years, and rather than coping with that, you’re choosing to lash out at those who can see it clearly. And I’m not American. I’m British. You know... A country that was part of the EU for many years before the Brexit shit show, and warned Germany repeatedly about its relationship with Russia, and things like Nord Stream 2. Especially post Crimea.

…which is not to say the UK did not allow Russia to money launder in London for years. No one is above reproach on this. But there are levels. Germany’s love affair with Russia was far, far greater.

You could have kept yourself warm with the nuclear power Merkel decided to shit can in favour of Putin’s gas.

No, of course no one is directly responsible for this war other than Putin, but it’s frankly time for countries like Germany to put on their big boy boots, admit the god awful way they’ve handled international relations over the past decade plus, and make sure it never happens again. For instance, maybe next time they won’t prevent the shipping of weapons via its airspace and the blocking of weapons being handed over in general, or only promising 5000 hats to the country under threat? Or maybe not put its own economic concerns ahead of the safety and security of a neighbouring country?

It is not reductive to analyse and critique the international relationships that enabled Putin to feel like he could launch this war. It’s vital that this is done to ensure it doesn’t happen again. And of all western democratic nations, a strong argument can be made that Germany was at the forefront of Russia appeasement. I’m sorry that’s very uncomfortable for you.

 

[iamblades]

European idealism pretty much united Europe against Russia. Without it, Putin would already have annexed much more than what he is trying to grab now. And who are you calling naïve here? Nobody saw this really coming, not us Europeans, not the UK and also not the U.S.

Funny that you mention the Fins as I've recently visited one. They are quite happy now that they are a member of the EU. The reason they refused to join NATO was to remain on neutral terms with their neighbor as to not provoke him. Russia's aggression also came quite suddenly for them as we have now a solid majority of Fins in favor of joining NATO.

Economic, social and diplomatic interdependence still is the best guarantee for peace.

The US(and UK) has been warning about continental Europe's relationship with Russia and this specific scenario since at least the late Clinton administration. It's not even political on this side of the pond really, basically everyone agrees that the western Europeans are not serious military and security partners for the most part. It's simply inarguable when the US gets dragged into a controversial conflict where we have no strategic interest(Libya) and end up having to supply fucking small arms ammunition to NATO allies.

Now if you want to argue that it's unfair that Germany gets all the heat while France is worse in every aspect aside from Energy dependence and military readiness, I'm sympathetic, but France didn't humiliate the current US president WRT the Nordstream 2 sanctions.

As for the last bit, as somewhat of a globalist libertarian, I generally agree with this sentiment, however it is naive to assume it applies to all situations, and when it is clear that the other party has motivations that don't fit into that system(which has been clear with Putin since at least the Munich security conference speech in 2007), you need to avoid becoming more dependent on them than they are on you and you need a credible threat of hard power to back it up. Germany did neither.

 

[Liljagare]

There is something wierd though, regarding those bussloads of Russian troops suffering from acute radiation poisoning. If they had just been digging trenches, even with fragmets of spent fuel in them, this wouldn't have happened within weeks of spending time in the soil/dirt. (http://www.chernobylgallery.com/chernobyl-disaster/radiation-levels/)

Either there is some unreported storage of "live" fuel, or they have been messing around in lot 3.

The ICSRM comprises four facilities. 'Lot 0' is temporary storage for low- and intermediate-level long-lived waste as well as high-level waste. This is within the Liquid and Solid Waste Storage Facility and was commissioned in 2010.
'Lot 1' will retrieve solid wastes from an existing solid waste storage facility. It will handle 3 cubic metres of waste per day over an operational life of 30 years.
'Lot 2' will sort solid wastes and process low- and intermediate-level wastes at the rate of 20 cubic metres per day. Some solid and liquid wastes will be incinerated, and some will be cemented. It can package 1.5 cubic metres of low- and intermediate-level long-lived waste per day, and can store 3500 cubic metres of them and high-level waste.
'Lot 3' is a near-surface storage facility for low- and intermediate-level short-lived waste with a capacity of 55,000 cubic metres. It will accept waste for 30 years and store it for 300 years.
Lot 3 if not powered can cause fallout over large parts of the region.

 

[Kraz]

So, of course, since Russia is accusing others they appear to have witches cursing.

Putin's Witches

They have gathered in Moscow to support the Russian president in his war on Ukraine. A ritual

www.asianews.it

Special curses have been composed against the enemies of Putin and Russia: 'Those who pretend to pass through our midst, those who have decided to leave us, those who lie in everything they say, for ever and ever these enemies will be cursed!' And a chorus replies: "Cursed, cursed!"

Amongst the witches, magicians also peep out, who in their robes and long beards are very reminiscent of the orthodox priests themselves. Asked: 'Where do you agree with Putin?', the answer is: 'In everything, as a citizen of Russia, I have no right to question the decisions of those who govern us', as Afrodita assures us: 'I always agree with those above us'.

Aljona herself illustrates the principle that 'whoever is in power is a kind of absorbent tissue, who takes in everything that lives in the people and in the country, and there cannot be a negative president...

Spoiler

Unsure if there was a meeting on the 12th of March this year, but there's this from a few years ago.

These are the wild witches we're more familiar with in nature.


Intoxicated! Free.

 

[JayK47]

All of those mines and unexploded ordinance is going to be around for a long while killing and maiming.

 

[EviLore]

 

[ManaByte]

It "seems" china did not do it. But could be to avoid making them angry. We may never know.

(the guy used to run the Star Wars fansite TheForce.net and tried chasing clout and building his followers by attempting to debunk all of The Force Awakens spoilers that were coming out, which all turned out to be 100% accurate)

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I've got a friend that has spend at least 10 years with Doctors Without Borders in the most horrible places and wars and he fucked off to Ukraine about 2 weeks ago to help because that is how his brain is wired. He's basically retired as he's banked enough cash to live comfortably forever and he went. We haven't heard from him since. Hope that stupid bastard is okay .

 

[TwinB242]

Didn't see it posted, but there was footage of this Russian chopper being shot down released earlier today. Interesting part is that it apparently was the result of the UK's starstreak missile system. Seems that they've been finally distributed to the Ukranian army. Hopefully the first of many aircraft to be taken down with it.

British-made Starstreak missile 'shoots down Russian helicopter'

A British-made anti-aircraft Starstreak missile reportedly shot down a Russian helicopter in Luhansk in the weapon's first use in Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The chopper even deployed flares but they had no effect since the missiles are laser guided.

 

[nbcjr]

I've got a friend that has spend at least 10 years with Doctors Without Borders in the most horrible places and wars and he fucked off to Ukraine about 2 weeks ago to help because that is how his brain is wired. He's basically retired as he's banked enough cash to live comfortably forever and he went. We haven't heard from him since. Hope that stupid bastard is okay .

I didn't understand, Did he get rich on doctors without Borders?

 

[Darius87]

the biggest mistakes i see ukrainian's civils doing is stopping the car in front of the tank or paint "children" easy targets for russians.
That couple should've quicly reverse while keeping low in the car and keep going other way, they might have survived then.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

The hell are you talking about? Ostpolitik has never been a debate within Germany, in fact Europe's opening to the East is the reason why the European Union is standing strong against Russia. Have you ever been to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary or any other Eastern countries? The EU has brought a lot of prosperity to these countries, hence why Ukraine wanted to join too. You think ignoring Russia and further isolating them would have made things better after the cold war? Absolutely not!

Also what the hell are those sources? Seems more like the result of a desperate google search in order to confirm your cherry picking and selective arguing. Schroeder is a self-serving corrupt arsehole, but far from being the only Western ex-politician sitting in a Russian directorial board, including many American members. Schroeder clearly worked into his own pockets, but that is not something unique to German politicians as demonstrated by the fact that American investors bought half of their Eurobonds like two years ago.

Economic relations cannot be reduced to single instances like that, or are we now conveniently forgetting about your Putin-friendly ex-president and your presidential candidate whose foundation was largely backed by Russian investment money? What about the US-Russia uranium deal? I think you're forgetting that Russia is/was also an important economic partner to the US:



Lastly, what the hell is the big deal with Nord Stream? Where else do you suggest we get our gas from? Russia is close, so it is rather normal that Western Europe has lots of economic relations with them as is the case with any neighboring countries. Had Russia not invaded Ukraine, we'd still be their economic partners, Americans included! Nord Stream certainly is NOT the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine, so why even bring this up in the context of this discussion? You're clearly grasping at straws here.

The "hot take" is not Germany's economic ties with Russia or Schroeder's involvement with Gazprom. The hot take is making Germany and the EU indirectly responsible for what is happening to the Ukraine, which is quite frankly, absolutely disgusting and highly reductive. Finally the EU has done more to keep Russia at bay these past few years than America, so spare us the childish finger pointing.

It serves absolutely no purpose other than creating EU/German resentment in this very thread.

The hate boner americans have for the EU and european integration is always amusing. Despite all the doom and gloom predictions it's been 20 years and going strong.