Support NeoGAF

[Mokus]

I'm afraid this is only the beginning.

 

[Mato]

The bottom 20% live off Harz IV welfare or is eligible to welfare compliments to their wages. They'll have to manage. I worry less about Cindy and Kevin not getting enough welfare to buy cigarettes than I worry about my country fucking financing an ongoing genocide!

Eh, you are being inconsiderate. It's also likely that crunching on 20% of the population would raise discontent and cause political instability in the country. An unstable Germany is the last thing EU needs. I agree that Germany needs to keep a harder stance against Russia but being derogatory towards 16 million people isn't the way.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The bottom 20% live off Harz IV welfare or is eligible to welfare compliments to their wages. They'll have to manage. I worry less about Cindy and Kevin not getting enough welfare to buy cigarettes than I worry about my country fucking financing an ongoing genocide!

Cool stereotypes I guess. I'm just glad our politicians aren't that cynical.

 

[Methos#1975]

I'm afraid this is only the beginning.

Probably, because we in the west at this point have chicken shit leaders to petrified of presumed Russian nuclear power to risk doing the right thing and intervening. After decades of "never forget" rhetoric following WW2 and the evil committed then, here we are with a chance to stop a similar situation and nah fam.

 

[Patrick S.]

I'm not a financially well off person. I have lived off Harz IV in the past. But I want Germany to cut ties with Russia even if it hurts. There's a fucking genocide going on! Not one person in Germany is going to starve or die if we stop buying Russian blood gas.

 

[Airbus Jr]

NSFW

Mass grave with hundred of people found in Bucha

There's a photo of 7 Ukrainian girls thats too horrible to post here. Naked, raped, and killed. Three with their underwear stuffed into their mouths.

NSFW

Spoiler: Spoiler

 

[M1chl]

I sincerely hope that now even the most ignorant people understand, why leaving Donbas, Luhansk, Crimea to Russians is not an option. It's clear that what Russia is doing is expanding their lebensraum [Living space] for Russians. Ethnic cleansing and all of that are inevitable.

 

[Tomi]

NSFW

Mass grave with hundred of people found in Bucha

There's a photo of 7 Ukrainian girls thats too horrible to post here. Naked, raped, and killed. Three with their underwear stuffed into their mouths.

NSFW

Spoiler: Spoiler

Source?

 

[M1chl]

Source?

Among others

 

[Deleted member 1159]

This is just disgusting beyond words, and you just knew this was going to be the result of this “special military operation.” God dammit.

It makes the stakes of surrendering territory crystal clear:

 

[strange headache]

They cannot look at the images coming out of Ukraine that so closely echo the kinds of atrocities their own people committed, and continue to just suck on the Russian teat, can they? At least they can clearly state when they will be cutting off all supply from Putin.

Germany is a good and decent country as far as I am concerned, and as far as I have experienced. They cannot allow a legacy that shows them as a nation that gives money to monsters. Not after what they went through and what they did. They have to say or do something fast!

There are already short term plans in the works to reduce Russian gas consumption by two thirds by the end of this year. Mid- and long-term Europe will become wholly independent from Russian energy imports. This transition already comes at a heavy socio-economic cost. You also keep forgetting that European countries are in the middle of accommodating millions of Ukrainian refugees.

Do you suggest we just cut our gas pipelines and let people freeze to death while also crippling our economy to the point of being completely unable to provide further help? There need to be consequences for the atrocities committed in Ukraine, but creating even more pain and suffering for the European people, is counter-productive.

 

[sinnergy]

omg , I can’t believe how the Russian armed forces had behaved , they should be severely punished .. and not with jail time .

Wtf is this , in this day and age . Are we no better than the Middle Ages … ☹ I saw a picture I didn’t want to see ..

This is approaching 1940 levels of bad .

 

[Nikodemos]

omg , I can’t believe how the Russian armed forces had behaved , they should be severely punished .. and not with jail time .

Wtf is this , in this day and age . Are we no better than the Middle Ages … ☹

Eastern Europeans could tell you that the muskals have acted like this for most of their history.

 

[Lord Panda]

My blood is boiling seeing those photos.

No peace talks until Putin and those responsible for those atrocities, pay for what they’ve done. Animals.

 

[Facism]

omg , I can’t believe how the Russian armed forces had behaved , they should be severely punished .. and not with jail time .

Wtf is this , in this day and age . Are we no better than the Middle Ages … ☹ I saw a picture I didn’t want to see ..

This is approaching 1940 levels of bad .

Ask the Turkic populations of Eurasia if this is anything new for Russia. over half a millennia of this rape, pillage and ethnic cleansing shit from them. Entire peoples and cultures supressed or outright cleansed from the world.

 

[Batiman]

My blood is boiling seeing those photos.

No peace talks until Putin and those responsible for those atrocities, pay for what they’ve done. Animals.

Which photos? Never mind…

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So, the big question: what's going to happen with all the battle hardened ukrainian troops that don't need to fight for Kiev anymore? Kherson? Melitopol? Donbass River? Try to break the siege on Mariupol?

 

[Deleted member 1159]

So, the big question: what's going to happen with all the battle hardened ukrainian troops that don't need to fight for Kiev anymore? Kherson? Melitopol? Donbass River? Try to break the siege on Mariupol?

If it were me discovering the bodies of my friends and family slaughtered in neighboring towns? I’d be looking to kill every last Russian troop stupid enough to stay in my country

 

[TwinB242]

So, the big question: what's going to happen with all the battle hardened ukrainian troops that don't need to fight for Kiev anymore? Kherson? Melitopol? Donbass River? Try to break the siege on Mariupol?

Many will need to stay behind as they can't afford to leave Kyiv unprotected. There's no guarantee the Russians won't try another assault on it.

 

[Artoris]

Many will need to stay behind as they can't afford to leave Kyiv unprotected. There's no guarantee the Russians won't try another assault on it.

Not necessarily, Ukraine should be able to move their troops faster than Russia, and they have good info or Russian troop locations

 

[Nikodemos]

Not necessarily, Ukraine should be able to move their troops faster than Russia, and they have good info or Russian troop locations

Unfortunately, a lot of the bridges over the Dniester have been blown up, either by the Russians to cut off Ukrainians, or by Ukrainians themselves to stop Russian advance.

Many of the remaining ones are unsafe for heavy vehicles.

 

[Resident_UA]

Many will need to stay behind as they can't afford to leave Kyiv unprotected. There's no guarantee the Russians won't try another assault on it.

Of course Ukraine will leave some defense but just to emphasize how ridiculous and unorganized this retreat was Russia now will have even more difficulty recapturing these territories. They blew up bridges retreating. Ukraine has a bit of advantage here.

 

[Catphish]

Is there a point where Russian atrocities would be so egregious (as if they fucking aren't already) that NATO, or some kind of Western coalition, would get involved as a result?

Part of me feels like this is just Russian army being Russian army, and part of me feels like it's bait.

But all of me is heart broken with this shit, and I think I'd be ok at this point with US & Western forces on the ground to protect the Ukrainian people.

At some point I feel like we have to stand against this brutality and say 'enough'.

 

[Nikodemos]

The Russians killed everything when they left. Horses, dogs, cattle.

https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=onUJiDXQ4MQ

Had to break up the link, so the video doesn't show automatically.

 

[Resident_UA]

Is there a point where Russian atrocities would be so egregious (as if they fucking aren't already) that NATO, or some kind of Western coalition, would get involved as a result?

Part of me feels like this is just Russian army being Russian army, and part of me feels like it's bait.

But all of me is heart broken with this shit, and I think I'd be ok at this point with US & Western forces on the ground to protect the Ukrainian people.

At some point I feel like we have to stand against this brutality and say 'enough'.

The leas the West can do is provide those freaking planes already. How thebfuck did it become such a political issue? What are they afraid of? It's not direct involvement.

 

[Dr.D00p]

..gee, what a surprise

 

[funkygunther]

Is there a point where Russian atrocities would be so egregious (as if they fucking aren't already) that NATO, or some kind of Western coalition, would get involved as a result?

Part of me feels like this is just Russian army being Russian army, and part of me feels like it's bait.

But all of me is heart broken with this shit, and I think I'd be ok at this point with US & Western forces on the ground to protect the Ukrainian people.

At some point I feel like we have to stand against this brutality and say 'enough'.

In 1993 NATO established a no fly zone over Bosnia. In 1995 there was the biggest massacre in the war at Srebrenica where 8000 Bosnians were genocided. Even "getting involved" is no guarantee of atrocities ending here. Even getting directly involved by invading Ukraine or Russia is no guarantee of it.

At the moment military supplies, humanitarian aid, open refugee borders, and further tightening of economic screws are the best bet.

 

[EviLore]

SecState Blinken on the Bucha atrocities.



“Ukraine’s sovereignty and independence is going to be there a lot longer than Putin is on the scene.”

“For every Russian tank, there will soon be 10 anti-tank systems in Ukraine.”

 

[JayK47]

What the hell is going on? I never expected this, even from Russia. Are they seeing what they can get away with? This is how they want to be remembered? Clearly they had no intent to simply take it over. They are bombing everything to shit and committing atrocities against civilians. This was never a liberation. Clearly just trying to wipe Ukraine from the map.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

If it were me discovering the bodies of my friends and family slaughtered in neighboring towns? I’d be looking to kill every last Russian troop stupid enough to stay in my country

Well, I was looking for a more precise answer than kill all russian invader, no matter how meritorious that proposal is

 

[EviLore]

Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley Clark:




"The goal is not any different. He published what he wanted back in December. He wants Ukraine. He wants the Baltic states. He wants control over Eastern Europe. He wants to shatter NATO and he wants the United States out. This is for all the marbles."

"Ukraine is just the current battlefield. But, if the Ukrainians defeat Russia on this battlefield, everything changes. So the best way to protect NATO, the best way to protect the international system, is to give Ukraine the assistance it says it needs, and let them handle Russia on this battlefield."

 

[Romulus]

Is it possible the Russian army is humiliated beyond belief and is lashing out with these war crimes? I don't remember much of this behavior on the beginning of the war. Inexcusable regardless and disgusting.

 

[Resident_UA]

What the hell is going on? I never expected this, even from Russia. Are they seeing what they can get away with? This is how they want to be remembered? Clearly they had no intent to simply take it over. They are bombing everything to shit and committing atrocities against civilians. This was never a liberation. Clearly just trying to wipe Ukraine from the map.

How did you not expect it from Russia? They literally invaded neighbors and committed atrocities in 2008 and 2014. Syria was even worse. Just look at any interviews with Russians inside Russia. Pretty much all of them don't even consider Ukrainians as worth existing. Most Russians would do exactly the same thing if they were drafted into that army.

 

[Resident_UA]

Is it possible the Russian army is humiliated beyond belief and is lashing out with these war crimes? I don't remember much of this behavior on the beginning of the war. Inexcusable regardless and disgusting.

It was there from day 1. We just didn't know how extensive it was. Some of the videos of murders were filmed a while ago and now they are getting to the actual evidence. (Like that bbc report)

 

[Resident_UA]

In 1993 NATO established a no fly zone over Bosnia. In 1995 there was the biggest massacre in the war at Srebrenica where 8000 Bosnians were genocided. Even "getting involved" is no guarantee of atrocities ending here. Even getting directly involved by invading Ukraine or Russia is no guarantee of it.

At the moment military supplies, humanitarian aid, open refugee borders, and further tightening of economic screws are the best bet.

The difference here is that Ukraine has enough will and power kick Russia out if NATO closes the skies. That said I don't think it will happen. NATO is too scared. I don't blame them... But also they created this situation by appeasing Russia in the past.

 

[Neff]

Probably, because we in the west at this point have chicken shit leaders to petrified of presumed Russian nuclear power to risk doing the right thing and intervening. After decades of "never forget" rhetoric following WW2 and the evil committed then, here we are with a chance to stop a similar situation and nah fam.

Chickenshit or not, you don't want risk when it comes to nuclear weapons. And unfortunately it's the reason why they're so useful. Nobody fucks with you. Everybody knows you're not going to use them. Nobody wants to use them because it means suicide. Russia isn't gonna do shit. It's exponentially more useful to simply have them than actually use them, because armageddon can't be 100% ruled out. It's solely what prevents the West from marching in and tearing Putin's dick off.

 

[Wildebeest]

Is it possible the Russian army is humiliated beyond belief and is lashing out with these war crimes? I don't remember much of this behavior on the beginning of the war. Inexcusable regardless and disgusting.

Backtrack a few page or two, and you will see the plans for mass graves they had going in. Along with taking along mobile crematoriums and squads of police to suppress the population. This was plan A.

 

[EviLore]

Those mobile crematoriums will certainly be looked at in a different light now. It would be far easier for them to hide evidence of their atrocities.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Those mobile crematoriums will certainly be looked at in a different light now. It would be far easier for them to hide evidence of their atrocities.

Totally. The Russians apparently didn’t care at all about leaving the bodies of their troops everywhere…wouldn’t surprise me if they are just being used to clean up evidence of what they’re doing to civilians.

 

[EviLore]

First Russian Su-35 fighter ($40-$65 million cost) shot down. Pilot captured.

 

[O-N-E]

Is there a point where Russian atrocities would be so egregious (as if they fucking aren't already) that NATO, or some kind of Western coalition, would get involved as a result?

Part of me feels like this is just Russian army being Russian army, and part of me feels like it's bait.

But all of me is heart broken with this shit, and I think I'd be ok at this point with US & Western forces on the ground to protect the Ukrainian people.

At some point I feel like we have to stand against this brutality and say 'enough'.

No-one joined the fight against the Nazis and Hitler because of foreign atrocities. It was only when they were directly touched by them. Dealing with the atrocities was practically last on the priorities list.

I see no reason to believe anything would be different now.

 

[akimbo009]

There are already short term plans in the works to reduce Russian gas consumption by two thirds by the end of this year. Mid- and long-term Europe will become wholly independent from Russian energy imports. This transition already comes at a heavy socio-economic cost. You also keep forgetting that European countries are in the middle of accommodating millions of Ukrainian refugees.

Do you suggest we just cut our gas pipelines and let people freeze to death while also crippling our economy to the point of being completely unable to provide further help? There need to be consequences for the atrocities committed in Ukraine, but creating even more pain and suffering for the European people, is counter-productive.

Lithuania cut off Russian gas. They also called Taiwan a country. I'm sure they won't "freeze" to death without the gas and under China sanctions.

I think your comments are hyperbole, and echos the whole "we couldn't possibly do anything could we?" approach to this whole thing.

..gee, what a surprise

I mean, as I had already said.. it's limits actions, and apparently so much they were also in denial.

We are all frustrated, but at least see what's right in front of you.

 

[EviLore]

(original tweet)

 

[LQX]

I know it is terrible to say, but some of what is now coming out of those areas the Russians are now fleeing is sort of not shocking. This is the Russian military and I expect even more terrible shit to come out, if not come about.

I wonder what the "western media is not showing both sides" fuckers will say now. I cannot stand that narrative I see from those trying to play the "being objective" card. It always seems to be coming from either clueless Russians, or those that fell hard for the propaganda through strong Russia/Putin memes, certain cable news stations and or certain people being elected to higher offices and spewing Russian fanaticism akin to a weeaboo. And the irony is they more than anyone else these days try to beat you over the head about falling for propaganda when that have been eating that shit up for years.

Also, If Europe allows Russia to regroup and attack again for better results then they're just as culpable. They better stop the lip-service start and actually sending those advanced missile systems, tanks and jets to arm Ukraine to the teeth.

 

[funkygunther]

No-one joined the fight against the Nazis and Hitler because of foreign atrocities. It was only when they were directly touched by them.

Britain and France declared war when Germany invaded Poland, drawing in their colonies and starting the world war. Had the same principles applied here, UK would have declared war on Russia on invasion of Ukraine.

The only way the Polish invasion could be seen as directly touching Britain or France would have been fear of Hitler’s expansionist policies, but that’s still stretching the definition of directly.

 

[Tams]

..gee, what a surprise

Who was it that was posting walls of text here defending France and Germany?

Honestly, we've known for a long time the French and Germans have been at best naïve about Russia. At worst more interested in themselves than actually helping to protect Europe. And to think they lead the EU.

 

[strange headache]

Lithuania cut off Russian gas. They also called Taiwan a country. I'm sure they won't "freeze" to death without the gas and under China sanctions.

I think your comments are hyperbole, and echos the whole "we couldn't possibly do anything could we?" approach to this whole thing.

Lithuania has a population of only 2 million people and transitioning away from Russian gas imports took them 7 whole years (starting in 2015 and finishing middle of this year). They also import 70% of their liquid gas through the port of Klaipeda and another 15% come from Latvia's gas storage.
I think your comments are purely uninformed, highly partisan and needlessly divisive and antagonistic.

Considering your obsessive posting and comfortable armchair judging in this thread I've also probably done more for the people in Ukraine than you, both privately and professionally in RL.

I'm really getting sick of all the EU hatemongering generated in this thread on the back of the Ukrainian war. As if the the atrocities and general shitty situation already aren't enough to deal with...
So kindly f*ck off!

 

[FatallyYours]

Britain and France declared war when Germany invaded Poland, drawing in their colonies and starting the world war. Had the same principles applied here, UK would have declared war on Russia on invasion of Ukraine.

The only way the Polish invasion could be seen as directly touching Britain or France would have been fear of Hitler’s expansionist policies, but that’s still stretching the definition of directly.

Exactly. We had a pact with Poland at that time to protect them, whereas we didn't with Austria and Czechoslovakia to my knowledge.
It was obviously a shitty thing Hitler did, but we didn't just leave them to it, we just had no reason to call for war, especially as Hitler took over Austria and Czechoslovakia pretty quickly and without much bloodshed, as he wanted to incorporate them back into the fatherland, not destroy them.
Poland was a red line then, like it is now. Hitler tried to call our bluff. I don't know if Putin will or not, especially after the shitshow he's caused himself over the last month

 

[EviLore]

The United States supported Ukraine joining NATO in 2008, but Germany vetoed the proposal. That shaped outcomes here more than any other factor. But it is what it is. There are opportunities for Germany to step up now.

 

[Facism]

Is it possible the Russian army is humiliated beyond belief and is lashing out with these war crimes? I don't remember much of this behavior on the beginning of the war. Inexcusable regardless and disgusting.

No, this is how they've always operated.