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[Wildebeest]

The two things that matter in this crisis, at the moment, are countering Russia with as much force as is needed and documenting what is going on with so much quality data that the gangsters in the Kremlin cannot muddy the waters. Possibly France and Germany are both still too timid when it comes to using enough force, but I don't doubt that they are committed to making the truth known.

 

[FunkMiller]

You can drop the snark, I'm well aware. My point is that we need to find ways of stopping it, not fueling it.

Ok, apologies for the snark, but you’re viewpoint suggests that things could still get worse, and the Russians could become more indoctrinated if we act harshly. I’d argue we’re at the end point already. They commit Nazi level atrocities. The time for worrying about how they feel about us has past. They now need - like the nazis - to have their entire state destroyed, so that it can be rebuilt better, just like Germany. Our concern in the west is no longer relations with Russia, it’s about gutting Russia as punishment for the crimes they’ve committed.

 

[MisterFalcon]

The two things that matter in this crisis, at the moment, are countering Russia with as much force as is needed and documenting what is going on with so much quality data that the gangsters in the Kremlin cannot muddy the waters.

That's impossible, even the incredibly low effort Russian denials are taken as absolute truth by the fringe parties on both sides of the political spectrum and in large parts of the world where information is controlled by the governments who favor Russia. Good information will not win out over bad information, there is simply too much of it.

 

[nbcjr]

If you want to feel visceral revulsion, read the translation of that RIA Novosti article. Not the old one, mistakenly posted on 26 February, where they gloated about the impotent West doing nothing about their lighting takeover of Ukraine.
The new one, where Putin explains what he means by "denazification".

link

 

[Wildebeest]

That's impossible, even the incredibly low effort Russian denials are taken as absolute truth by the fringe parties on both sides of the political spectrum and in large parts of the world where information is controlled by the governments who favor Russia. Good information will not win out over bad information, there is simply too much of it.

The key to undermining those fringe groups is not scrutinizing their links to Russia or dignifying their addiction to Russian nonsense as if the cheap disinformation that they spew is just "too powerful", but to see what valid grievances they use to grow and address them. A fault line that doesn't exist can't be exploited by Russian trolls.

 

[Nikodemos]

link

It's all over reddit, there are several threads discussing it, along with links to translations. Here's one of them:

What Russia wants from Ukraine? Screenshots from Russian media, RIA Novosti. - Album on Imgur

Discover topics like russo ukrainian war, and the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Divnyi.

imgur.com

EDIT:
Here's another:




EDIT x2:
And a third:

Justification of genocide: Russia has openly declared its desire to exterminate Ukrainians as a nation | UACRISIS.ORG

Yesterday, April 3, the state-owned Russian news agency RIA News published an article, which calls for the genocide of Ukrainians. Timofey | Uacrisis.org

uacrisis.org

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Germany just confirmed that it still wants Russian oil, even after Bucha happenings. Pragmatism gone wild.

 

[Resident_UA]

Germany just confirmed that it still wants Russian oil, even after Bucha happenings. Pragmatism gone wild.

I understand gas... I disagree with it. I think they will keep paying even higher price in terms of political and economic capital if they keep delaying but I understand the fear. But OIL? Why? Sure the price will go up but it's substitutable.

 

[EviLore]

Interview with the mayor of Bucha.



“We will never forgive the Russian people—not personally, not individually, but on the whole—we will not forgive the Russian people for the atrocities that have happened here.”

“We shall never forgive them. They will never be forgiven, on this earth or in heaven.”

“Almost everyone who survived the occupation will need specialist psychological help.”

“I think we can expect to see the same picture on the entire territory from Kyiv to Mariupol and Kherson. This will happen everywhere where the Russian occupier has stepped.”

 

[LimanimaPT]

These are nazi level attrocities. It's Russia that is in need of denazification.

 

[MisterFalcon]

The key to undermining those fringe groups is not scrutinizing their links to Russia or dignifying their addiction to Russian nonsense as if the cheap disinformation that they spew is just "too powerful", but to see what valid grievances they use to grow and address them. A fault line that doesn't exist can't be exploited by Russian trolls.

This assumes there are valid grievances. I see mainly raging narcissists whose self worth stems from believing something else then 'the mainstream' and geniune crazies.

Looking back at some of their statements it went something like:
-Pre-invasion: "Only NATO warmongers think Russia will invade"
-Invasion day: "This is not agression but a logical response to NATO agression and nazis"
-Day 1: "Look at the Ukies collapse, this is faster then the Afghan army lol"
-Day 30: "Despite what the NATO propaganda claims this is all according to plan and the whole Ukie army is about to be caught in a cauldron and destroyed"
-Future: "NATO may want nothing more then the fighting to continue but Russia, having destroyed the targets it wanted to, will pull back after a job well done"

No attempt is made to be consistent, it's all just the opposite of what the State Department says.

 

[Nikodemos]

These are nazi level attrocities. It's Russia that is in need of denazification.

Destalinization. That's what needs to happen.

Hrushchov only spoke of destalinization. He never dared destalinize the KGB (else he would've likely ended up Beria-d). He didn't even destalinize the Red Army, beyond forcibly retiring some fossils.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

I felt bad at the beginning for those ones who were sent as meat cannons and the Russian people, but after watching all the shit in favor on this it is hard to feel pity for them.

 

[Klik]

Is there actually any chance that war will be over in May? At least some kind of peace treaty..


This is just fcking terrible, i know democracy isn't perfect but at least everything doesn't depend on one jackass similiar to Pooptin

 

[Deleted member 1159]

It's all over reddit, there are several threads discussing it, along with links to translations. Here's one of them:

What Russia wants from Ukraine? Screenshots from Russian media, RIA Novosti. - Album on Imgur

Discover topics like russo ukrainian war, and the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Divnyi.

imgur.com

EDIT:
Here's another:




EDIT x2:
And a third:

Justification of genocide: Russia has openly declared its desire to exterminate Ukrainians as a nation | UACRISIS.ORG

Yesterday, April 3, the state-owned Russian news agency RIA News published an article, which calls for the genocide of Ukrainians. Timofey | Uacrisis.org

uacrisis.org

If this is the new party line, god help us all...either we end up in WWIII or we're going to continue to have to allow Russia to commit another genocide in Europe and be morally complicit.

 

[Polelock]

I can not wait until Putin breathes his last breath. The Russian people need to stand up to this thief. He has crippled Russia for personal gains, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Resident_UA]

I remember when I was 16 I was so happy that internet existed. I thought no major genocide could happen because people would discover the truth... How naïve I was... And what's worse is that Russians choose to do this. They had more or less FULL access to the internet and it didn't stop them at all...

 

[Resident_UA]

Is there actually any chance that war will be over in May? At least some kind of peace treaty..


This is just fcking terrible, i know democracy isn't perfect but at least everything doesn't depend on one jackass similiar to Pooptin

Peace treaty with Russia. LOL! There's a chance that there will be a break in this war. But this war will not be over until Russia fully defeated. This war started 8 years ago and it will not be over anytime soon.

 

[STARSBarry]

I remember when I was 16 I was so happy that internet existed. I thought no major genocide could happen because people would discover the truth... How naïve I was... And what's worse is that Russians choose to do this. They had more or less FULL access to the internet and it didn't stop them at all...

I mean this issnt even the first one recently either.

Xinjiang internment camps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Really puts your own countries problems in perspective. Gee I wonder why Russia and China are getting on

 

[speckz]

 

[TwinB242]

Is there actually any chance that war will be over in May? At least some kind of peace treaty..


This is just fcking terrible, i know democracy isn't perfect but at least everything doesn't depend on one jackass similiar to Pooptin

Russia is committed to this war and will drag it on for long as necessary. I don't see it ending that soon unless Zelensky concedes and lets Russia take pieces of their territory. The thought of Russia getting a 'win' like that sickens me but its probably the most likely scenario at this point, unless the west gets their shit together and starts doing more to help.

 

[Kenpachii]

It's almost like they need the gas to heat there houses. "shocking face".

 

[GymWolf]

Victim complex

Most unrealistic thing in that video is the husky not throwing a tantrum.

 

[akimbo009]

It's almost like they need the gas to heat there houses. "shocking face".

It's not the fucking Artic, and it's April not January.

 

[Kenpachii]

It's not the fucking Artic, and it's April not January.

Maybe you should live here, it snowed yesterday. It's cold as hell.

 

[chromhound]

 

[akimbo009]

Maybe you should live here, it snowed yesterday. It's cold as hell.

Start a fire, go to community locations, find a fucking way to protect the vulnerable and get your shit together with the slightest sacrifices.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Start a fire, go to community locations, find a fucking way to protect the vulnerable and get your shit together with the slightest sacrifices.

Start a fire? That's your advice?

 

[akimbo009]

Start a fire? That's your advice?

I'm suggesting Germany is tits deep in supporting Putin. Has been for years, and it's not damn tundra in Germany (it's 45f high in Berlin today for example).

To increase OIL during this time is even more shameful... It's LNG that heats but increasing oil is just sucking Putin's dick.

There are ways to handle this that doesn't involve destroying Germany - but they aren't even trying - they're doing the opposite.

 

[funkygunther]

I'm suggesting Germany is tits deep in supporting Putin. Has been for years, and it's not damn tundra in Germany (it's 45f high in Berlin today for example).

To increase OIL during this time is even more shameful... It's LNG that heats but increasing oil is just sucking Putin's dick.

There are ways to handle this that doesn't involve destroying Germany - but they aren't even trying - they're doing the opposite.

it's the government that can handle this, they have the means to...they should source elsewhere AND handle the increase in prices to not affect the general public that are stuck still having to heat their homes, they absolutely have the means even if it means them upsetting certain companies, CEOs and billionaires

making this an individual German's problem is not the way to do it though, not by you suggesting they should light a fire, or by the government telling them they should be the ones responsible for swallowing the costs (by saying they wouldn't be able to, therefore recession in Germany, therefore we'll keep buying that fuel from Russia thx)

 

[Wildebeest]

This assumes there are valid grievances. I see mainly raging narcissists whose self worth stems from believing something else then 'the mainstream' and geniune crazies.

What I'm talking about is how someone can start with a problem like "why can't I find a job that can pay my rent" and end up with a radicalized position like "moon monsters are in control of the haulage industry". The solution here is to make the employment market somewhat better, not to disprove the existence of moon monsters.

 

[akimbo009]

it's the government that can handle this, they have the means to...they should source elsewhere AND handle the increase in prices to not affect the general public that are stuck still having to heat their homes, they absolutely have the means even if it means them upsetting certain companies, CEOs and billionaires

making this an individual German's problem is not the way to do it though, not by you suggesting they should light a fire, or by the government telling them they should be the ones responsible for swallowing the costs (by saying they wouldn't be able to, therefore recession in Germany, therefore we'll keep buying that fuel from Russia thx)

I am being flippant. Of course its the governments responsibility - it's why its so criminal they let themselves willingly get into this position. But it's up to it's people to argue for change and push it's government to do something.

Right now I am hearing a bunch of air cover and defense force for what's happening and "well gosh, we can really do anything - sorry about country being destroyed with the profits generated from my country".

And really, in this thread, I have told to "kindly fuck off" all sorts of other stuff for even suggesting Germany and the EU do more, and account for what got us all in this mess. Would be nice if folks actually got a little more constructive their suggestions instead of trying to post cheap wins about trying come up with any idea to resist Putin's influence.

 

[sinnergy]

Maybe you should live here, it snowed yesterday. It's cold as hell.

I am heating mostly electrical now, with a heater .. it’s not that expensive.

 

[sinnergy]

Interview with the mayor of Bucha.



“We will never forgive the Russian people—not personally, not individually, but on the whole—we will not forgive the Russian people for the atrocities that have happened here.”

“We shall never forgive them. They will never be forgiven, on this earth or in heaven.”

“Almost everyone who survived the occupation will need specialist psychological help.”

“I think we can expect to see the same picture on the entire territory from Kyiv to Mariupol and Kherson. This will happen everywhere where the Russian occupier has stepped.”

Yes , that’s war, it’s ugly , messy .. my grandfather a world war 2 veteran told me lots of stories .. he didn’t explicitly told me of the barbaric action Russia did .. but any war is messy. It is not from this time, the Russians and Putin should know better. It’s pretty sad all of this .

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Ok, apologies for the snark, but you’re viewpoint suggests that things could still get worse, and the Russians could become more indoctrinated if we act harshly. I’d argue we’re at the end point already. They commit Nazi level atrocities. The time for worrying about how they feel about us has past. They now need - like the nazis - to have their entire state destroyed, so that it can be rebuilt better, just like Germany. Our concern in the west is no longer relations with Russia, it’s about gutting Russia as punishment for the crimes they’ve committed.

So are you saying the UK/US should intervene militarily? Because we all know where that leads? I want this to end every second of every day just like you, but I have no idea how we do that without starting WW3.

Hence I am not a politician.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So the problem here is that the longest this last the longest Russia has to stablish puppet republics partitioning Ukraine.

Donbass and Lugansk and Donetsk well, it's well underway, but there's a real risk of the same happening on Kherson and Melitopol oblasts. Ukraine knows it and most of its actions down south have been trying to get Kherson back but the city and the surrounding area are heavily fortified and crawling with orcs.

 

[M1chl]

I've read that the situation on northwest of Irpin is worse than Bocha in city called Borodyanka

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Merkel says she did nothing wrong in 2008, where she was against Ukraine getting into NATO.

 

[AJUMP23]

They made their economies dependent on it. And they speak out of both sides of their mouth. We condemn, yet we still need the gas. Without it they collapse their own economies. They shouldn't haven gotten away from Nuclear power, but they could go back, it would just take years to do it. TO change the infrastructures takes years and is normally gradual. When there is a crisis it can happen faster but alternative energy sources are not readily available. This is the situation of making the bed and having to lie in it.

 

[Gp1]

stasdubrik

You can view and join @stasdubrik right away.

t.me

Genius

 

[akimbo009]

They made their economies dependent on it. And they speak out of both sides of their mouth. We condemn, yet we still need the gas. Without it they collapse their own economies. They shouldn't haven gotten away from Nuclear power, but they could go back, it would just take years to do it. TO change the infrastructures takes years and is normally gradual. When there is a crisis it can happen faster but alternative energy sources are not readily available. This is the situation of making the bed and having to lie in it.

It's not that thw only thing. They also didn't set up their ship oil transfers to allow for other foreign oil so even now when the US wants to send them offsetting oil they can't because they have no way of receiving it.

It's so fucking deep it's crazy. And they aren't even talking about resuming nuclear energy or anything at all. They are just blocking and making vague comments about having to move to "renewable energy" - like that's happening anytime soon and is a viable option for moving their heating infrastructure off LNG. It's such bullshit.

 

[Patrick S.]

The sad thing is that the people of Russia will pay the heavy price for Putin's actions in the next few years.
This bastard needs to be shut down Ben Laden style.

Fuck them. They love Putin and what he's doing.

 

[sinnergy]

Fuck them. They love Putin and what he's doing.

That’s how sadly indoctrination propaganda works, it’s what they know. For us in free countries hard to understand.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It's not that thw only thing. They also didn't set up their ship oil transfers to allow for other foreign oil so even now when the US wants to send them offsetting oil they can't because they have no way of receiving it.

It's so fucking deep it's crazy. And they aren't even talking about resuming nuclear energy or anything at all. They are just blocking and making vague comments about having to move to "renewable energy" - like that's happening anytime soon and is a viable option for moving their heating infrastructure off LNG. It's such bullshit.

I mean they're at 41% already. My country (also in EU) at 46% already. Progress IS being made. But its a long journey.

Internet says on average building an atom smasher takes 7 years. Meanwhile Germany is projected to reach 65% renewables in 8 years.

The reality of the situation is many european countries decided to go renewable and use gas to cover the gap since nuclear power is very unpopular in large swaths of europe, and it's the kind of strategic decision that takes a decade to backpedal. Looking at alternative gas providers is the most viable option, but even then that will take 4-5 years. IMHO they should start now moving towards that goal.

edit: on further searching I'm seeing wildly varying percentages of renewables??

 

[O-N-E]

Interview with the mayor of Bucha.



“We will never forgive the Russian people—not personally, not individually, but on the whole—we will not forgive the Russian people for the atrocities that have happened here.”

“We shall never forgive them. They will never be forgiven, on this earth or in heaven.”

“Almost everyone who survived the occupation will need specialist psychological help.”

“I think we can expect to see the same picture on the entire territory from Kyiv to Mariupol and Kherson. This will happen everywhere where the Russian occupier has stepped.”

If the Germans were forgiven for their nearly decade-long organized actions of mass extermination....

 

[akimbo009]

I mean they're at 41% already. My country (also in EU) at 46% already. Progress IS being made. But its a long journey.

Internet says on average building an atom smasher takes 7 years. Meanwhile Germany is projected to reach 65% renewables in 8 years.

The reality of the situation is many european countries decided to go renewable and use gas to cover the gap since nuclear power is very unpopular in large swaths of europe, and it's the kind of strategic decision that takes a decade to backpedal. Looking at alternative gas providers is the most viable option, but even then that will take 4-5 years. IMHO they should start now moving towards that goal.

edit: on further searching I'm seeing wildly varying percentages of renewables??

Totally get it, but there's a bunch of things - even if smaller things, that can be done along that journey. In fact, there are probably things they can do today that would minimize to some percentage today. It's a big problem, but the answer shouldn't be "let's wait 5+ years" - I'd be pissed if I lived in Germany and knew a mad man like Putin could just turn off gas some random December - after all he's done, you got to know he's probably not too hesitant to cruel at a mass scale.

 

[Alx]

I can understand that Germany is stuck with its dependency on Russian gas, but there’s probably something that can / should be done at EU level. It will hurt anyway, but let’s face it we’re in a war even if we don’t say it, and the counterpart of not spilling blood in Ukraine would be to bleed money at home. Every war has a cost, even economical ones.
Now it might help if the cost was balanced among EU members, and for once see Germany in debt with others. France could push for that (Macron is all for tighter EU and didn’t oppose a full embargo on Russia), unfortunately with the ongoing elections it may not be the best time to say « we’re going to pay part of the German bill », that would push any initiative to April 24th at best (and even then the idea of « sharing the load » is never popular in EU, but this time the concerned parties are not the same)

 

[Tams]

A major problem now (well, it started the moment the war crimes started on a systematic level) is nobody is going to able to placate many Ukrainians now. If there is any peace deal, there are going to revenge attacks on Russians in all sorts of places over this. The Ukrainians will never forgive this.

Perhaps before, despite the invasion a peace deal could have been come to, with likely only minimal breaches. Not now.

So, what should we do now? I think the only option is to arm and train Ukraine to the teeth, so that they can go on multiple offences that push all the Russians out. That's on the ground, but also sinking their warships and downing their planes. And really, we should be using our own drones under the guise of Ukraine.

 

[Stitch]

----------

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

If those tanks are full, they could allow to run a few months without getting a drop from russia.

We'll see.