Support NeoGAF

[Dr.D00p]

leaked docs it seems legit to me, but who knows:

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 4

Spoiler: 5

Spoiler: 6

No doubt leaked by some dumb shit Trump sympathiser, raging at his arrest....

 

[Lord Panda]

No doubt leaked by some dumb shit Trump sympathiser, raging at his arrest....

I'm just surprised at the top-notch production quality of all these intelligence papers. Kudos to the graphics design and documentation team!

 

[kuncol02]

leaked docs it seems legit to me, but who knows:

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 4

Spoiler: 5

Spoiler: 6

Legit? With Russian losses order of magnitude smaller than visually confirmed from photos of destroyed equipment? Spacing between numbers in ruSSian vehicles loses is also totally not suspicious. It's totally not photoshoped.

 

[Darius87]

Legit? With Russian losses order of magnitude smaller than visually confirmed from photos of destroyed equipment? Spacing between numbers in ruSSian vehicles loses is also totally not suspicious. It's totally not photoshoped.

yes some of it is altered, but documents were leaked from pentagon and there's 50 pages like this, what i posted is just small part of it, but it could be just big smoke wall to confuse everyone before ua counteroffensive i guess time will tell.

 

[Fools idol]

why is anyone confused about the legitimacy? the pentagon themselves confirmed the leaks are real.

 

[mxbison]

why is anyone confused about the legitimacy? the pentagon themselves confirmed the leaks are real.

That doesn't mean anything.

Every government lies. Maybe not 10/10 outrageous lies like Russia, but still plenty.

 

[kuncol02]

why is anyone confused about the legitimacy? the pentagon themselves confirmed the leaks are real.

Actually not. What Darius87 posted is photoshoped version used by ruSSian propaganda channels. And even original leak can be psy-op from US,

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So at this point it’s fair to say Russia shot it’s wad at the Bahkmut walls and we’re waiting for the Ukrainian counter offensive.

 

[Fenix34]

Interview with people has eng subs.

 

[Madserb2023]

Propaganda is just that so I take any Russian losses that are stated with a pinch of salt. Goes for anything that comes out of Russia too. If you read the newspapers during World War 1 you would have thought that the only losses the British had was that they had misplaced their tea at the Somme. However, just by looking at the situation the Russians must have suffered significant loss otherwise they wouldn't have needed to call up reserves. If they only lost 1500 tanks rather than 3,000 it would still be bad. I completely expect dodgey numbers during a war. Thats kind of what you do. People get too caught up on numbers when it is the only the end result that matters.

 

[Gp1]

 

[dave_d]

Propaganda is just that so I take any Russian losses that are stated with a pinch of salt. Goes for anything that comes out of Russia too. If you read the newspapers during World War 1 you would have thought that the only losses the British had was that they had misplaced their tea at the Somme. However, just by looking at the situation the Russians must have suffered significant loss otherwise they wouldn't have needed to call up reserves. If they only lost 1500 tanks rather than 3,000 it would still be bad. I completely expect dodgey numbers during a war. Thats kind of what you do. People get too caught up on numbers when it is the only the end result that matters.

Just to add to this, this isn't new. Maybe we're better now but take everything with a huge grain of salt. (Admittedly it's still pretty clear a bully is getting his shit shoved in.)

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Look at the power of the second world army, they lost over 2,000 tanks even before NATO started supplying western MBTs.

 

[Darius87]

russians protesting at their commander:

 

[winjer]

Another paper plane being announced by Russia, with a bunch of empty promises: the Mig-41

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Another paper plane being announced by Russia, with a bunch of empty promises: the Mig-41

They have so many projects yet they are fighting with T-62 in Ukraine. All of these "modernization programs" are just to steal more money. Russia is corrupted to the bone shithole.

 

[ClanOfNone]

Another paper plane being announced by Russia, with a bunch of empty promises: the Mig-41

It'll be able to launch the Tsunami nukes and each plane carries 36 of them or so I hear!

 

[Bavarian_Sloth]

Another paper plane being announced by Russia, with a bunch of empty promises: the Mig-41

Reminds me of the nazi regime, which propagated so-called "Wunderwaffen" (= miracle weapons) when the end was near.

Apart from a few prototypes nothing was built which could be used on the battlefield. Shortly after, the third reich crumbled.

Unfortunately, the only difference from back then are nuclear weapons, which provide every rogue nation and every madman protection.

 

[TwinB242]

There's a video making the rounds of Russians decapitating a living Ukranian PoW. Russians are literally the new ISIS.

 

[Tams]

There's an absolutely horrific video going around of Russian forces (orcs)

Spoiler: nsfl

beheading a Ukrainian soldier alive.

I think Russia is well beyond saving.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

meanwhile in the UK this is how Ukrainian soldiers are sent off after training

 

[BlackTron]

There's an absolutely horrific video going around of Russian forces (orcs)

Spoiler: nsfl

beheading a Ukrainian soldier alive.

I think Russia is well beyond saving.

Even if the same had happened during WW2, now so much more is captured and entrenched in history for all time. Russia will not be able to spin or shake off the lingering stain for an eternity.

 

[Fools idol]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

Not a peep on the news, obviously, but Russia knows. We must be very close to escalation.

 

[Tams]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

Not a peep on the news, obviously, but Russia knows. We must be very close to escalation.

It's in the news. It's just that bigger things are happening than something we all suspected anyway.

Try watching/reading some normal news outlets.

 

[Whitecrow]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

Not a peep on the news, obviously, but Russia knows. We must be very close to escalation.

Isnt it just an intel report? Or what am I missing?
Is this any prove of EEUU playing solely for their interest and not giving a fuck about the war?

Honest questions. I'm dumb when it comes to these things.

 

[Ozriel]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

Not a peep on the news, obviously, but Russia knows. We must be very close to escalation.

Nobody gives a shit. Russia had Iranian instructors in Crimea actually helping to launch missiles. The sky didn’t fall.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

What's the difference between training Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine and in the West? They by some miracle stop being Ukrainian the moment they cross the border?

 

[Darius87]

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

There's an absolutely horrific video going around of Russian forces (orcs)

Spoiler: nsfl

beheading a Ukrainian soldier alive.

I think Russia is well beyond saving.

This torture, and other horrific atrocities the Russians do, hardens resolve to deal with Russia once and for all.

There doesn't seem to be much left of Russian civilization, only decaying facade, which is making it regrettably clear their descent into savagery needs to be stopped by plowing under what remains of them.

 

[Nikodemos]

There doesn't seem to be much left of Russian civilization, only decaying facade

Fundamentally, this is one of the potential endgames of commie regimes. Depending on cultural/societal/historical factors, the result can be one of several outcomes (sometimes multiple sequential outcomes from the list):
- peaceful transition to democracy (parts of Eastern Europe);
- collapse into anarchy/civil war (Yugoslavia);
- takeover by a mafia-style inner cabal (China);
- neo-feudal decay (Russia);
- sultanistic ossified kingdom (North Korea).

 

[TwinB242]

So If the casualty numbers in the documents are inaccurate then they might actually be bad for Ukraine. Losing only 17K troops so far might seem like in a good thing in comparison to Russia's 45K. But that's actually nowhere near enough dead Russians after an entire year of war. At this rate Putin can comfortably drag the conflict out for years.

the 180K count from Ukraine's ministry of defense is baffling in comparison. There's just so much conflicting info out there now that its impossible to get an idea what the military strength is like for either side.

 

[Sakura]

So If the casualty numbers in the documents are inaccurate then they might actually be bad for Ukraine. Losing only 17K troops so far might seem like in a good thing in comparison to Russia's 45K. But that's actually nowhere near enough dead Russians after an entire year of war. At this rate Putin can comfortably drag the conflict out for years.

the 180K count from Ukraine's ministry of defense is baffling in comparison. There's just so much conflicting info out there now that its impossible to get an idea what the military strength is like for either side.

The 180k number is actually just total casualties, even though it is worded as though it is KIA by saying "liquidated".

 

[TwinB242]

The 180k number is actually just total casualties, even though it is worded as though it is KIA by saying "liquidated".

I always see Ukranians on twitter equating those numbers with actual Russian troop deaths. If its all just misleading propaganda then that is unfortunate....

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who knows how those numbers are calculated.

If a allied rocket or tank shell blows apart a Russian position, how do they know that's "5 confirmed kills".

Do they always do a post fight sweep of the area and count every body? I guess so(?)

 

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Who knows how those numbers are calculated.

If a allied rocket or tank shell blows apart a Russian position, how do they know that's "5 confirmed kills".

Do they always do a post fight sweep of the area and count every body? I guess so(?)

With the amount of drone recon they likely get a lot of visual confirmation. Plus officers are supposed to file after action reports detailing known information. Lots of data compilation..

 

[Sakura]

I always see Ukranians on twitter equating those numbers with actual Russian troop deaths. If its all just misleading propaganda then that is unfortunate....

Yeah, but I don't believe it ever actually says on the infographics or elsewhere on the website how they are defining the "liquidated" numbers. People just assume it means deaths because of the word usage and such.
In reality if Russians had 180k KIA, total causalities would probably be around a million (in the leaked document for example, 5x as many wounded as dead), which doesn't make any sense considering I don't think the total number of Russian troops in Ukraine has even been a million, and even if it was, the war would've ended a long time ago.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Russians flee Crimea, abandon property ahead of Kyiv's counteroffensive​

newsweek.com/russia...

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[sinnergy]

So If the casualty numbers in the documents are inaccurate then they might actually be bad for Ukraine. Losing only 17K troops so far might seem like in a good thing in comparison to Russia's 45K. But that's actually nowhere near enough dead Russians after an entire year of war. At this rate Putin can comfortably drag the conflict out for years.

the 180K count from Ukraine's ministry of defense is baffling in comparison. There's just so much conflicting info out there now that it’s impossible to get an idea what the military strength is like for either side.

Make no mistake it are huge numbers , dead or wounded , doesn’t matter , those soldiers are not usable .

 

[sinnergy]

The leaked docs clearly show Western special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine.

Not a peep on the news, obviously, but Russia knows. We must be very close to escalation.

Escalation began when he invaded in 2014 … Russia has show to be a paper bear. I am not sleeping any worse , and I am from Europe

 

[Tams]

Leopard gets a heavy scratch from Russian broomstick.

Challenger from behind: 'Don't worry, I got your back'.

 

[Gp1]

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but I don't believe it ever actually says on the infographics or elsewhere on the website how they are defining the "liquidated" numbers. People just assume it means deaths because of the word usage and such.
In reality if Russians had 180k KIA, total causalities would probably be around a million (in the leaked document for example, 5x as many wounded as dead), which doesn't make any sense considering I don't think the total number of Russian troops in Ukraine has even been a million, and even if it was, the war would've ended a long time ago.

Probably is casualties, so I believe it includes death and wounded (combat and non combat related). The thing is the Russian combat medicine is something comparable to what the west did in the 50s and Ukraine is way ahead, specially with the western support. So Ukraine can "regenerate" a good portion of their wounded to combat status and the Russian can't.

Trent Telenko did some very interesting tweets about this.

 

[TwinB242]

Make no mistake it are huge numbers , dead or wounded , doesn’t matter , those soldiers are not usable .

The problem is that the casualties aren't high enough given how much has been provided to Ukraine in terms of money and weaponry. At this rate the west will run out of weapons they can give to Ukraine before Russia has enough casualties that they will decide it's not sustainable to continue the war.

Russia is of course losing a ton of equipment thats not as easily replaceable, but they still have a lot of cannon fodder they can throw at the frontlines.

 

[winjer]

The problem is that the casualties aren't high enough given how much has been provided to Ukraine in terms of money and weaponry. At this rate the west will run out of weapons they can give to Ukraine before Russia has enough casualties that they will decide it's not sustainable to continue the war.

Quite the opposite, most of what the west has been giving Ukraine is mostly surplus weapons, out of storage. The US has been clearing out warehouses of old vehicles due to this war.
Only more recently, has the west been considering giving more modern weapons like the Leopards, F-16, etc.
Just for comparison, while Russia is taking T-62 out of storage, Ukraine is receiving Leopards2. And the reason is that a lot of T90's, T-80's and T-72's have been destroyed or captured.

Also, the west is not giving that much support to Ukraine. Barely enough to keep them in the fight.
Like several people already said, the west has to step up the assistance to the Ukrainian military, or we'll risk a stalemate that lasts a few years.

 

[kuncol02]

From wikipedia:
"Polish Rosomak serving in Afghanistan (the version with upgraded armor) was attacked by the Taliban. The vehicle was hit by RPG-7 rockets, but managed to fire back and then returned to base without requiring assistance."

That was RPG-7 vs wheeled APC/IFV designed to have ability to swim in base version. I guess they can try with much more armored tank.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Quite the opposite, most of what the west has been giving Ukraine is mostly surplus weapons, out of storage. The US has been clearing out warehouses of old vehicles due to this war.
Only more recently, has the west been considering giving more modern weapons like the Leopards, F-16, etc.
Just for comparison, while Russia is taking T-62 out of storage, Ukraine is receiving Leopards2. And the reason is that a lot of T90's, T-80's and T-72's have been destroyed or captured.

Also, the west is not giving that much support to Ukraine. Barely enough to keep them in the fight.
Like several people already said, the west has to step up the assistance to the Ukrainian military, or we'll risk a stalemate that lasts a few years.

if only T-62 https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...ld-t-55-tanks-out-of-storage/?sh=7fcc69426593

And as you said, NATO help is like nothing right now in comparison to potential yet Ukraine still has a lot of success in this war, i believe in total victory for them.

 

[RJMacready73]

People need to remember Ukraine is ex soviet, all it's gear, training and mindset is based on old soviet doctrine, it takes a long time to change all that and they've been undergoing modernization for the last load of years but have only been receiving proper NATO weapons in the last year, you can't just dump tons and tons of heavy weaponry into the country, the logistics involved in getting the weapons they are using is immense, we're talking about armament shipments from loads of countries all arriving at various ports and airports that need to be trained in, usually in secret to various areas of the frontline, I dare say the Ukrainians are over stretched as it is with the supply that they have.

NATO is in this for the long run, they're not going to abandon Ukraine, more and more young men and women are being properly trained all over Europe and all Russia does is grab a load of drunks from bumfuck nowhere way in the East of Siberia, gives them 2wks "training" and dumps them onto the frontline to be shredded, the war is already won the Russians are just to fucking stupid to realise it

 

[AJUMP23]

I don't know if we want classified material posted on GAF.

 

[sinnergy]

The problem is that the casualties aren't high enough given how much has been provided to Ukraine in terms of money and weaponry. At this rate the west will run out of weapons they can give to Ukraine before Russia has enough casualties that they will decide it's not sustainable to continue the war.

Russia is of course losing a ton of equipment thats not as easily replaceable, but they still have a lot of cannon fodder they can throw at the frontlines.

It one of the cheapest wars … you don’t wanna know how much other wars costed .. I think it’s going okay.