TheDreadLord
Member
Just to make it clear, tanks there is probably any armored vehicles, not necessarily MBTs only.
Look at the power of the second world army, they lost over 2,000 tanks even before NATO started supplying western MBTs.
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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter AfricanKing
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TheDreadLord
Member
NATO help is what is keeping Ukraine continue the war. A significant number of battalions have been rebuilt 2-3 times now (at least based on the number of equipments received). So, it is fundamental for NATO to keep it or even step up the aid. Eventually, it might even be necessary to send troops there as Ukraine has also been mobilizing recruits…
ThisIsMyDog
Member
What you talking about, why "any armored vechicle" would be under Tanks and not APCs/IFVs?
Yes, NATO and Russian corrupted impotent army, thats the point.
Artillery shells are probably the biggest need for Ukraine right and they are not being produced in sufficient enough quantities. Thats how Russia made so many gains earlier in the war in the south and in the east. They just spammed artillery and Ukraine had no choice but to retreat. If Ukraine had the same capabilities and were able to use them against the trench lines and fortifications in the south the Russian frontline would quickly collapse and the goal of liberating Crimea would become more and more realistic.
And the Leopards are not being handed over in large enough quantities to make a significant difference on the frontlines. Russia may be moving T-62s out of storage but they still outnumber Ukraine when it comes to modern tanks like T-72s, T-80s, and T-90s.
Patrick S.
Banned
That'll be life in prison for high treason, right?
Unlikely that he’ll be convicted of treason, based on precedent. But he’s certainly fucked for life.
More concerning is how this fucking Airman First Class had access to this level of data. Why the hell does he have access to slides for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? Heads are gonna roll. This is just a symptom of an underlying process problem.
Tams
Member
Tams
Member
Russian T-90 Tank From Ukraine Mysteriously Appears At U.S. Truck Stop
The tank was apparently captured by Ukraine last fall, but it is unclear how or why it ended up in Louisiana.
www.thedrive.com
winjer
Gold Member
Yes, there are very few Leopards 2 being sent to Ukraine. But let's also remember that the UK is also sending Challenger 2.
But again, this is another case of the west not doing as much as it should.
Another thing to consider is that T-55's, T-62's and T-64's are not on the same level as Challenger's 2 and Leopards 2. They aren't even from the same century.
BTW, yesterday Germany approved the transfer of Mig-29's from Poland to Ukraine.
These are former fighters that were in East Germany, that then were sold to Poland.
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Yes, the longer we do just enough, the more a risk that Russia will rebuild and win in the end .. but probably the plan always was to give the annexed areas
politics. All smoke and mirrors .
ThisIsMyDog
Member
The point is, they losing so many equipment so fast that THEY CAN'T REBUILD IT IN TIME.Yes, the longer we do just enough, the more a risk that Russia will rebuild and win in the end .. but probably the plan always was to give the annexed areas
kuncol02
Banned
There is at least 1908 lost Russian tanks. 2288 lost IFV, 829 AFV. From VISUALLY CONFIRMED loses only.
We have photographic evidence available for public for more than 10 000 pieces of equipment lost by Russians.
LordOfChaos
Member
Their Su-57 "5th gen" only seems to have gotten its radar cross section down to about late fourth gen, late block Rafale/F18 type that somewhat cared about radar return but weren't expressly shaped to avoid it like fifth gen.
And they've only built like 12 of them.
Nearly artisanal in comparison to the F35 production line lol. India saw the progress of the Su-57 years ago and bailed on it as they weren't happy with it, the Chinese J20 and the Indian AMCA both appear to have a better grasp of shaping required to avoid radar than Russia, and they've both surpassed them on AESA radar development which Russia barely has in fighter size (again, just alleged on those dozen Su-57s)
Notable that they've kept that super duper 5th gen jet out of the Ukraine war, when it should be able to turn things around if it was all they claimed.
LordOfChaos
Member
Their ground game does appear to be incredibly lossy. However it looks like they've still barely committed their air force, while on numbers they're sort of similar losses (72 vs 60), in percent they're very different. Maybe they don't have the logistics to commit more or are running out of precision weapons, or would be too at risk?
Look at the power of the second world army, they lost over 2,000 tanks even before NATO started supplying western MBTs.
LimanimaPT
Member
Humanity is so stupid. If the resources that go into weapons would go to something productive we all could live like kings. But istead, we choose to kill each other for no reason. So sad...
winjer
Gold Member
Their Su-57 "5th gen" only seems to have gotten its radar cross section down to about late fourth gen, late block Rafale/F18 type that somewhat cared about radar return but weren't expressly shaped to avoid it like fifth gen.
And they've only built like 12 of them.
Nearly artisanal in comparison to the F35 production line lol. India saw the progress of the Su-57 years ago and bailed on it as they weren't happy with it, the Chinese J20 and the Indian AMCA both appear to have a better grasp of shaping required to avoid radar than Russia, and they've both surpassed them on AESA radar development which Russia barely has in fighter size (again, just alleged on those dozen Su-57s)
Notable that they've kept that super duper 5th gen jet out of the Ukraine war, when it should be able to turn things around if it was all they claimed.
Truth be told, the SU-57 is a 4.5 Gen fighter. It does have some stealth capabilities, due to the use of material that is radar absorvente. It also has some geometric properties to reduce radar signature, but these are limited, as the plane still has a lot of focus on 4th Gen type mobility.
It also has terrible engines for stealth, because they were made for 4th Gen fighters. And it lacks the connectivity, computation and awareness of a real 5th gen jet plane.
And like you say, Russia doesn't even have the capability to build more than a handful. So they are not great for a real war, but they are great for propaganda, parades and Tik Tok.
It's the T-14 Armata, but for planes. A pathetic attempt to pretend to create something the west has.
LordOfChaos
Member
I believe it's purpose was to bilk other countries into funding its development. The program started out with a joint venture with India, but India looked at how it was going and decided it was not a true fifth gen capability and dropped out, and Russia doesn't have the funding to make something truly like a 25 year old F22 alone. There's probably not much if anything it does better than the Rafale they got instead, while that's a 4.5th gen jet it does have advanced avionics, the world class SPECTRA EW suite, and some radar reduction measures that put it in a similar field. Russia just knows how to make racehorses, but cobra maneuvers don't win wars.
The Su-75 Checkmate is doing the same thing, trying to find another country to bilk into actually funding the thing.
China is obviously not going to play ball with the west but India is somewhat neutral and trending towards the west, it would be a good idea to make sure they get sweetheart arms deals to keep them from buying typically cheaper Russian gear.
winjer
Gold Member
You are probably right, Russia is just trying to convince other countries into investing into it's development. And the idea is a good one, it's the same thing that the US did with the F-35. And that several countries in the EU have done for many planes.
But it requires trust and competence. Something that Russia lacks so much.
Again, like you said, other countries like China, USA and EU also make fighters. Regardless of what political spectrum a country is in, one of these will probably sell a better fighter than anything that Russia can produce today.
And then there are countries like India that want to have their native military industry, as not to rely on others, and to boost it's own tech sectors.
RJMacready73
Banned
How can Russia advertise their awesome arms industry whilst being utterly humiliated on the battlefield, look at these awesome modern battle tanks that were afraid to use cause everytime one goes into battle a drone takes it out or our next generation fighter jet that can't fly sorties over Ukraine cause it'll get shot down... We make the best gear you can't use
ClanOfNone
Member
I've thought about this a lot lately, maybe it's an old man thing. As far as we know it's just us out here, humanity, alone on the pale blue dot. If we pooled our efforts as a species I don't think that there's anything we couldn't accomplish, human ingenuity is a helluva thing.
I wonder if we are just an inherently violent species. Why do we choose this for ourselves when we could be so much more.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
That's human nature. There has always been and will always be war.
Patrick S.
Banned
Agent Smith was always right.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
Corruption, lack of organisation, lack of well-trained pilots, already ageing jets.
So, the same reasons as in their entire army. If you want to see what strong military action in the airspace should look like then read about Operation Desert Storm.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
Thats life. T-800 said it best in Terminator 2. It's in people blood to destroy each other. Its like that now and no doubt millions of years ago when cavemen tribes fought over fire and hairy women.
I said it in a post way back , but just imagine how great Russia would be if they used their giant land of resources, 100M+ people and pretty solid academics. They are also smack dab right there near Europe, Mid East and Asia for easier transportation (it's not like they are isolated on an island far away from everyone).
If the people there just focused on economics and growing, they'd be a western superpower. Instead they are still dicking around in wars like it's WWII. Bu instead of being defenders against Nazis, they are aggressors against Ukraine.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
They couldn't be because they are Muscovites, you have to understand that they have been living in a besieged fortress for hundreds of years and they are thinking only to get the threat as far away from Moscow as possible. That means moving their own borders or creating buffer countries.
They will never change until they lose as badly as Germany or Japan did in the second world war. But that is almost impossible because of their nuclear weapons, so we will live with these idiots on this planet, I just hope Ukraine manages to win this war and join NATO/EU. They won't attack NATO because they know that in a conventional war they can't win, and with nuclear one everyone will lose.
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this is such garbage, no it isn't , people aren't really violent, there is a reason soldier have to be trained to kill, otherwise people won't
during ww2 the british did a study of troop behavior only like 50% of men ever fired their gun, only like 10% aimed toward the enemy and even less aimed to kill
basically they discovered only about 2% of men would shoot to kill, those that would kill to protect the men under their command (usually older brothers that viewed their squad as their brothers), and a far smaller number of psychopaths
most people will let their enemy go when they surrender,
billions of people interact daily without violence
us had similar results
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/hope_on_the_battlefield
but hurr durr a character in a movie said so, it must be the trues!!!
wars happen because a small number of people want something they don't have, If someone isn't being forced to defend their home (say in ww1 during which most troops just viewed things as live and let live) 99% of the rank-and-file troops would just walk away if they had the option,
If we were really violent we would have survived. destruction is easy, creation is hard and we as a species skew toward creation probably 100000 to 1
all the misanthrope in this can take a hike, just because your hateful doesn't mean everyone else is.
E-Cat
Member
I refuse to acknowledge belonging to the same human species as those savages. They have no humanity. Maybe we're genetically the same, but there's a fundamental difference between humans who choose violence versus those who don't (other than for self-defense). Who knows, maybe it IS genetic, like a psychopathy gene or something.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's pretty simple. Humans have emotions of greed, violence, domination etc... But even basic creatures have traits but in a more of an instinct level than a human feeling level.
And most of the time, it involves multiplying, spreading your species, and overtaking others. No different between humans and raccoons. The difference is raccoons will scrap it out clawing and biting each other. Humans will do organized warfare or economic sanctions.
For example, ants all seem to work together building a mound and supporting the queen. It's like one big happy family. They are even born as workers or soldiers. But when the time comes, it's ant hill vs ant hill in giant ant wars you'd see on National Geographic.
E-Cat
Member
The way Russia does it goes beyond mere war for resources. There's something sadistic about it. I personally don't have fantasies of violence or domination. I have greed, but would not like to make money through the suffering of others. Anyway, once a certain standard of living has been achieved, resource wars are no longer necessary. Russia had trade with the West and would be better off now had they not gone to war.
I think humanity now consists of "constructivists" and "destructivists". The former want to break free of the shackles of our animalistic imperative. We can transcend above our biology, by merging with AI if necessary.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
I’m sure countries are asking for NATO membership, society got soft under Trump, people will remember Biden being hard on Russia during this war. Go back and listen to his speeches.
Patrick S.
Banned
Gp1
Member
Sure, a knife can too.
But a knife won't toss it's turret to the ISS when hit by a lucky rpg 7 (the one that Ukraine has by thousands).
Patrick S.
Banned
Tams
Member
Guy outed by his Steam and Instagram profiles, and his kitchen worktop and floor tiles.
www.engadget.com
Suspect charged with Pentagon leaks was outed by his Steam profile
The US has charged the alleged leaker of Ukraine war documents with sharing military secrets, and he was identified with help from his Steam profile.
www.engadget.com
BlackTron
Member
I can't believe anybody could be so stupid to leak info in this fashion, particularly if you have access to it because you have some kind of technical skill or ability that would imply you are smart enough to do it better (or not at all).
But it says he was doing it just to impress his gaming friends, so he's a fucking idiot.
Tams
Member
21 year olds are often still really fucking dumb.
I know I at least thought I had it together at that age. In retrospect, I absolutely did not and was a moron. Not as much of a moron as this guy though.
The brain matures at around 25.
Lets not start filling this thread with misleading propaganda. There isn't a single other source reporting those Zaporizhzhia advancements.
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