Support NeoGAF

[GrayFoxPL]

Supposedly putin has only sent in 1/3 of the troops so far. He’s waiting for his men to capture an airport near the capital before he dumps half of the platoons on Kyiv. Fortunately the ukranians have been able to hold them off.

Many of them are looking like children and starved. Putin send them to the slaughter. Maybe 2/4 of them is a professional army. 100 000 or 200 000 troops he can loose. He doesn't care.

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."

I hope Ukraine can hold it together until NATO and United States can finally say: " Gee whiz, maybe we should help them?"

If I could do something I'd sent every possible military to Ukraine 2 weeks ago.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy literally asked for help of NATO nations and what? Nobody heard him?

It's Viktor Orban. And their media is pro russian also basically justifying Russia.

He is. Polish government is also pro him and against Russia. Try to figure that one out.



Here's something in lighter tone.



Good dog.

 

[RoadHazard]

Not allowing anyone 18-60 leave the country [excluding women] and forcing weaklings to fight against the incoming professional hardened chechen veterans who survived multiple wars is sure fire to be a slaughter. I know emotions running high, but this is a mass murder by the president.

Yes, by the Russian president.

 

[jufonuk]

Many of them are looking like children and starved. Putin send them to the slaughter. Maybe 2/4 of them is a professional army. 100 000 or 200 000 troops he can loose. He doesn't care.

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."

I hope Ukraine can hold it together until NATO and United States can finally say: " Gee whiz, maybe we should help them?"

If I could do something I'd sent every possible military to Ukraine 2 weeks ago.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy literally asked for help of NATO nations and what? Nobody heard him?

He is. Polish government is also pro him and against Russia. Try to figure that one out.



Here's something in lighter tone.



Good dog.

It’s not no one not hearing him. It’s once nato enters the picture things will go a little crazy. Which I’m under selling. Basically it can go from just fighting in ukraine to Europe then a possible high high chance of Nukes being used.

 

[darrylgorn]

Sanctions vs Tanktions

I'm no expert on military tactics but we aren't really helping much here, are we?

 

[Majukun]

Many of them are looking like children and starved. Putin send them to the slaughter. Maybe 2/4 of them is a professional army. 100 000 or 200 000 troops he can loose. He doesn't care.

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."

I hope Ukraine can hold it together until NATO and United States can finally say: " Gee whiz, maybe we should help them?"

If I could do something I'd sent every possible military to Ukraine 2 weeks ago.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy literally asked for help of NATO nations and what? Nobody heard him?

He is. Polish government is also pro him and against Russia. Try to figure that one out.



Here's something in lighter tone.



Good dog.

if NATO didn't intervene now they never will.
and that's exactly why putin attacked now, stated strategy from the present ukraine gov was to aim at a nato membership in the future..once they were in, they would be untouchable

Sanctions vs Tanktions

I'm no expert on military tactics but we aren't really helping much here, are we?

things could escalate really fast with actual military intervention, everyone is aware of that

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

Dumb.

Do people really want Russia to show what its actually capable of? Because i don't.

The war would have been over already if Russia was unrestrained in its use of force. And another would have been gearing up.

This. The only reason the advance is so slow and the success is so limited, is that the 'invaders' are actually limiting casualties and taking time to allow for and take in any combatants that surrender. Call it propaganda if you will, but Russia reported 82 surrendered defenders on Snake Island, versus that 13 that Ukraine reported dead.

They're not just shelling the nation into oblivion, because like it or not they do in fact want there still to be a nation left by the time they leave.

 

[Hypereides]

Sanctions vs Tanktions

I'm no expert on military tactics but we aren't really helping much here, are we?

Sanctions have a long term effect before they settle in. Shit takes time. When Biden said "nobody expected the sanctions to work [right away]" (paraphrasing) I presume he implied that we wouldn't really see any effects until after a prolonged period.

Imagine it kinda like the liquid nitrogen scene from Terminator 2, but in very, very slow playback.

 

[Kraz]

still Hungary and Germany, I'd say there's still a chance it'll happen even if it means further Russian escalation before they decide to do it

It's a fair strategy to still have the most serious sanctions to employ if Russia continues to escalate. Even if it may only be a result of some questionable obstinance from particular sources.

 

[darrylgorn]

if NATO didn't intervene now they never will.
and that's exactly why putin attacked now, stated strategy from the present ukraine gov was to aim at a nato membership in the future..once they were in, they would be untouchable


things could escalate really fast with actual military intervention, everyone is aware of that

Escalate to what?

Nukes?

C'mon now.

Anyway, it's too late now. We missed any real opportunity to make a difference and now we get to watch people die.

 

[cormack12]

 

[PCH]

It's a fair strategy to still have the most serious sanctions to employ if Russia continues to escalate. Even if it may only be a result of some questionable obstinance from particular sources.

Polish PM convinced Orban to change his mind on SWIFT. Now lets wait for Germany.

 

[QSD]

i have no doubt that putin is completely rational at this point, ruthless of course, but he knows what he is doing, at least in terms of this invasion, the non response from the rest of the nato block and the invasion seems to be going according to plan.
the long term effects, aka how the rest of the world will interface with russia in the future, that's another question, but at this point Putin is probably just looking to either go the isolationist route as a "better to rule in hell than serve in heaven" kind of strategy, or he hopes that time will heal everything and the situation will normalize with time.

Hmmm, don't know about "completely rational". His whole speech about Ukraine seemed more to speak to a dream of a long-lost russian empire than actual political considerations. Also, has he actually realistically calculated what the cost of this war might be? Even in the most favourable scenario for Russia, Ukraine is a massive territory to occupy. Will the Ukrainians acquiesce in being conquered? Or will Russia face an endless and costly guerilla war?

 

[GrayFoxPL]

if NATO didn't intervene now they never will.
and that's exactly why putin attacked now, stated strategy from the present ukraine gov was to aim at a nato membership in the future..once they were in, they would be untouchable


things could escalate really fast with actual military intervention, everyone is aware of that

Ukraine was afraid of Putin and invasion of Russian army, that's why they didn't apply for NATO membership. But Putin invaded them anyway.

Now Ukraine has no choice and asks for NATO membership.

NATO won't give membership to Ukraine because is afraid of Putin now.

This is just unbelievable.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Dumb.

Do people really want Russia to show what its actually capable of? Because i don't.

The war would have been over already if Russia was unrestrained in its use of force. And another would have been gearing up.

Don't be a jessie

 

[Majukun]

Escalate to what?

Nukes?

C'mon now.

yes, even nukes in the extreme case.
people like ukraine, but they are not gonna sacrifice their own country security just for them, even if it's just a slight possibility.
nato block intervening means essentially a third world war, an extremely unbalanced one (russia vs nato) but still one where both sides have access to nuclear devices.

and you have to consider that nato doesn't fight with troops on the ground, but with carpet bombing, how much attack to mlitary target and infrastructures will putin need to feel desperate?

 

[cormack12]

Ukraine was afraid of Putin and invasion of Russian army, that's why they didn't apply for NATO membership. But Putin invaded them anyway.

Now Ukraine has no choice and asks for NATO membership.

NATO won't give membership to Ukraine because is afraid of Putin now.

This is just unbelievable.

It's almost like a deterrent to petitioning for membership of NATO. It takes that long and in the meantime you can be invaded at which point NATO will not intervene. Need to rethink that.

 

[Fess]

I hope Ukraine can hold it together until NATO and United States can finally say: " Gee whiz, maybe we should help them?"

If I could do something I'd sent every possible military to Ukraine 2 weeks ago.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy literally asked for help of NATO nations and what? Nobody heard him?

If NATO steps in with military then WW3 starts, possibly nuclear war, that’s why they are using sanctions.
I guess it might do some damage longterm if essentially the whole west world isolate them from everything, no more sports, western culture, social media, ip block the whole internet, no more western tech, cars, etc. Even if it’s a big bubble it won’t be fun living there.

 

[darrylgorn]

yes, even nukes in the extreme case.
people like ukraine, but they are not gonna sacrifice their own country security just for them, even if it's just a slight possibility.
nato block intervening means essentially a third world war, an extremely unbalanced one (russia vs nato) but still one where both sides have access to nuclear devices.

and you have to consider that nato doesn't fight with troops on the ground, but with carpet bombing, how much attack to mlitary target and infrastructures will putin need to feel desperate?

NATO can fight with armed forces, they just choose not to.

The message they are sending here is be a member of the club or you're on your own.

 

[Majukun]

Ukraine was afraid of Putin and invasion of Russian army, that's why they didn't apply for NATO membership. But Putin invaded them anyway.

Now Ukraine has no choice and asks for NATO membership.

NATO won't give membership to Ukraine because is afraid of Putin now.

This is just unbelievable.

nato won't give them access now because nato is a defensive pact that doesn't work retroactively, also application needs time.
accepting them now means declaring war on russia basically, which is what nato is trying to avoid, trying instead to starve russia and make them retreat if they realize the gaining from the war is not worth all the sanctions.

also, little addendum, i'm not an expert, but ukraine didn't went to nato because the past president was against aligning themselves heavely with the west, but wanted to stay "neutral"
but on september 2020 current government specificly declared that they were looking into aligning with nato countries and looking into entering nato altogether in the future.
which i guess that's when putin decided it was now or never.

 

[Doczu]

The Russians are way shabbier and unorganized than what I expected. They are labeled as brutal and fierce combatants but most of them are just angsty kids that want to go back home and do acid in grandmas basement. Seeing alot of outdated equipment and vehicles they are using as well. Putin wanting to make a show of strength, but really all he is doing is making himself look weak by doing this shit.

I hope it's not on purpose. Intel said they are currently using only a third if their stationing forces, mostly kids with out dated equipment.

I fear thry hold the bigger guns for later, after they see their fresh conscripts aren't doing too well.

We know they have better weaponry, and if they wanted to, they could have used it.

The other reason they are a bit... Conservative.... In their campaign may be that they don't want to create massive collateral damage. Bigger than now, that is.

 

[Majukun]

NATO can fight with armed forces, they just choose not to.

The message they are sending here is be a member of the club or you're on your own.

i know they can
i was just stating their modus operandi

and yes, that?s the message because that's essentially what NATO is, a defensive pact between countries, wouldn't make sense for them to also defend non members.

 

[Star-Lord]

Will you please shut the fuck up with the whole "We're all going to die" thing? Get a grip, man!

What’s the point? We are going to die, some sooner than later. I’m just facing the cold, hard reality that lies before us. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to bill buy tins of Coca-Cola and Frey Bentos pies.

 

[Ryder]

Anyone else feeling sick. I just want it to end. So needless that it shouldn't have come to this.

 

[Majukun]

Hmmm, don't know about "completely rational". His whole speech about Ukraine seemed more to speak to a dream of a long-lost russian empire than actual political considerations. Also, has he actually realistically calculated what the cost of this war might be? Even in the most favourable scenario for Russia, Ukraine is a massive territory to occupy. Will the Ukrainians acquiesce in being conquered? Or will Russia face an endless and costly guerilla war?

the speech was propaganda, not a single part of it i think reflected his actual own view on the matter..but it had to sell the war.
if he calculated the costs well enough time will tell..as of now things are goig swiftly enough, three days and they are already sieging kiev with minimal losses..of course in this cases it can always be better, but there's being hopeful (that ukraine would just surrender without fighting) and realistic (they will fight as much as they can until sadly they will not be able to anymore)

Anyone else feeling sick. I just want it to end. So needless that it shouldn't have come to this.

it is surreal to be talking about an actual invasion for conquest in 2022..i mean with crimea they basically did a small scale of this and it was just, like, 8 years ago? but this is a full blown invasion

 

[Doczu]

He is. Polish government is also pro him and against Russia. Try to figure that one out.

Well that is actually easy.

"Polak, Węgier dwa bratanki"

"Bro's before hoes" - paraphrasing for all you non polish speakers

 

[darrylgorn]

i know they can
i was just stating their modus operandi

and yes, that?s the message because that's essentially what NATO is, a defensive pact between countries, wouldn't make sense for them to also defend non members.

I never knew that was how they operated until now. I thought they were supposed to at least make some effort to defend democratic states, regardless of membership.

Seems pretty damn immoral that we're letting a communist country steamroll over a democratic one.

Since that precedent is now clear, it is imperative that other countries join before they get steamrolled as well.

 

[SidViscous]

I want to see riots in the countries not supporting the swift ban, the people of Ukraine are fighting alone for all of our freedom and it’s so heartbreaking that we haven’t even the balls to hit them with our hardest sanctions, the markets rebounded yesterday we were so weak.

I’m deeply ashamed of Europe for not helping.

 

[Sybrix]

What does the West do after this?

If/when Russia captures Ukraine and installs the puppet regime, does the west let Putin withdraw back to Moscow?

Will these sanctions be it as punishment?

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Well that is actually easy.

"Polak, Węgier dwa bratanki"

"Bro's before hoes" - paraphrasing for all you non polish speakers

Right. I forgot about that.

 

[Romulus]

I hope it's not on purpose. Intel said they are currently using only a third if their stationing forces, mostly kids with out dated equipment.

I fear thry hold the bigger guns for later, after they see their fresh conscripts aren't doing too well.

We know they have better weaponry, and if they wanted to, they could have used it.

The other reason they are a bit... Conservative.... In their campaign may be that they don't want to create massive collateral damage. Bigger than now, that is.

Its not really about that. Regardless if the Russians are sending their best, they have clearly demonstrated as a fighting nation they do posses the ability to project force from a logistical standpoint. The war literally just started it theyre running out of fuel like this this is 2nd year in WW2.
Not to mention, Ukraine is their next door neighbor and theyre struggling to maintain the line? Imagine keeping vehicles fueled and maintenanced thousands of miles from home daily. Thats what stops a war machine and the Russians fucking suck at it.
I would take WW2 nazi Germany against these Russians in a ground war and be absolutely blown away if the Nazis lost more than a third of their forces. Thats considering older technology. People are different now too, these aren't the red army badasses from the 80s and before, most of these kids are smartphone COD players motoring around in shit vehicles.

 

[speckz]

Finland or Sweden joining Nato would spark Russian response: Russia warns

If either Nordic country sought to join the security alliance it "would have serious military and political consequences that would require our country to take reciprocal steps, a spokesperson for the Russian foreign ministry said

www.tbsnews.net

 

[Rossco EZ]

crazy

 

[Majukun]

I never knew that was how they operated until now. I thought they were supposed to at least make some effort to defend democratic states, regardless of membership.

Seems pretty damn immoral that we're letting a communist country steamroll over a democratic one.

Since that precedent is now clear, it is imperative that other countries join before they get steamrolled as well.

ehm..russia is not a communist country, hasn't been for three decades
and yes, NATO is not the real world GI Joe

 

[ManaByte]

This will get the EU and everyone else involved to fuck Putin.

 

[darrylgorn]

Finland or Sweden joining Nato would spark Russian response: Russia warns

If either Nordic country sought to join the security alliance it "would have serious military and political consequences that would require our country to take reciprocal steps, a spokesperson for the Russian foreign ministry said

www.tbsnews.net

Threatening innocent countries just cements the fact that they need to be defended.

 

[RoadHazard]

Can countries not be thrown out of the UN? Russia shouldn't be there, they aren't united with us, they are an enemy of the world.

 

[Majukun]

This will get the EU and everyone else involved to fuck Putin.

is it illegal to use it? wiki page doesn't mention anything of the sort and the same devices have been used in several recent conflicts

 

[darrylgorn]

Can countries not be thrown out of the UN? Russia shouldn't be there, they aren't united with us, they are an enemy of the world.

Why this hasn't happened immediately is disturbing.

 

[ManaByte]

is it illegal to use it? wiki page doesn't mention anything of the sort and the same devices have been used in several recent conflicts

Hey guys we found the Russian propagandist.

Look up Aleppo.

 

[Majukun]

Can countries not be thrown out of the UN? Russia shouldn't be there, they aren't united with us, they are an enemy of the world.

it can and for what i can read there are the requirements

still, no member has EVER been expelled from the UN

sources:

Frequently asked questions

Frequently asked questions of the United Nations Office at Vienna

www.unov.org

Chapter I of the United Nations Charter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[funkygunther]

Hey guys we found the Russian propagandist.

Look up Aleppo.

the battle of Aleppo was still between the three factions of the civil war, EU never got involved directly

 

[ManaByte]

the battle of Aleppo was still between the three factions of the civil war, EU never got involved directly

Every post from that guy in this thread is defending Putin. He was defending the use of vacuum bombs and I was pointing out how Russia used them in Aleppo.

 

[Majukun]

Hey guys we found the Russian propagandist.

Look up Aleppo.

sure, the most propagandist of propagandists

 

[Lord Panda]

Can countries not be thrown out of the UN? Russia shouldn't be there, they aren't united with us, they are an enemy of the world.

No, Russia is a permanent security council member.

 

[Majukun]

Every post from that guy in this thread is defending Putin. He was defending the use of vacuum bombs and I was pointing out how Russia used them in Aleppo.

the what now?
i don't even know what that is, let alone defending the use of it

 

[Majukun]

No, Russia is a permanent security council member.

oh yeah it's true that some members are permanent

China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

 

[Bluntman]

Cmon Hungary...

It's fake news again. Like the one before the first round of EU sanctions about Hungary stalling.

Our foreign minister repeatedly said since yesterday evening that we don't block the SWIFT-ban, we don't block anything about the common EU action in this case.

Also, PM Orbán offered to host the Russian - Ukranian peace negotiations in Budapest.

 

[Razvedka]

I never knew that was how they operated until now. I thought they were supposed to at least make some effort to defend democratic states, regardless of membership.

Seems pretty damn immoral that we're letting a communist country steamroll over a democratic one.

Since that precedent is now clear, it is imperative that other countries join before they get steamrolled as well.

1. It's purely defensive and applied only to member states.

2. Morality and geopolitics are not meaningfully linked.

 

[RoadHazard]

No, Russia is a permanent security council member.

So even if they were to drop nukes on every single UN member they couldn't be expelled? That's hilarious. What the fuck is even the point then?

 

[ManaByte]

the what now?
i don't even know what that is, let alone defending the use of it

You were defending and downplaying them.

is it illegal to use it? wiki page doesn't mention anything of the sort and the same devices have been used in several recent conflicts